Timana Tahu out, Joel Monaghan in for State of Origin II

[guruminga]

Yeah, look, you`ve got a point there. And I`m certainly not calling Johns a racist. I am calling him a goose, though. He was pissed apparently, and it`s not a good look for the assistant coach of a major sporting team. And, yes, when I was a kid there was a lot of prejudice against 'Mediterranean Descendants', and I joined in with that. I didn`t deep down feel any real prejudice against them, but I`m sure that some of my remarks would have hurt some kids at school very badly.
But I reckon the big thing to come out of all this is that we white people generally haven`t got a clue about racism, and we don`t realise how cutting these sorts of remarks can be. Johns said he hopes he can learn from this. Maybe we all can. It`s no good in 2010 to say "It was just an off the cuff remark and I didn`t mean anything by it." Our Prime Minister said 'Sorry' last year. I think it`s up to all of us to make that mean something. This issue is a whole lot bigger than Rugby League or supporting NSW or QLD or Parramatta. This is real life.

Lingard, you have said a lot of great things in this thread. You're a credit to the forum.

G

 

[guruminga]

But he has set an example by being suitably contrite in the media ever since. He's been honest and explained himself and admitted his ignorance and stupidity. In this he's set an example to all the people who think a few 'black merkins' between mates is ok.

I've got black mates who I call 'black merkin' but after all this I think I'll stop it - whether my black mates care or not.

I've decided it's not worth the chance of hurting somebody who might not be comfortable speaking up about it.

Props to you mate. This is the change that comes about when Tahu decides to walk instead of bottling it up, or allowing it to be swept under the carpet. Remember inaction is also an action; in this case condoning it to a certain extent. But action while the harder road to take, is often well worth it.

Whether your mates are hurt or not by you words, I bet they'll have a great deal of respect for your decision to be a little more careful in the language you use.

G

 

[Eelementary]

No saying that they are both on the same page but Joey says something and everyone jumps on his back, alfie can go and get plastered start stripping and nothing is said. It something that Joey has to do deal with being so high profile but please get off his back.... let Tahu, Joey and Inglis sort it out

Yeah...But there is a difference between stripping and getting/being hammered and being downright ignorant and racist.

Think about it this way - Tahu, thus far, has been the only one with guts (that's right, guts - we all know how much he loves playing for NSW, but he gave it up for what he believes in) to come out and say that Joey is a buffoon. But how many others have suffered quietly at the hand of his or others' stupidity and intolerance?

 

[Eelementary]

I now realise the last few pages have been dedicated to debating whether Andrew is ignorant or not.

In my opinion, he's as ignorant as they come - he's supposedly mates with both Inglis and Tahu and says some dumb things; he refers to himself as 'white trash' without really knowing anything about what it actually means.

I don't think he is stupid or dumb. I think he is plain ignorant.

 

[mrpwnd]

Thing is....Andrew Johns is as ignorant as the next bloke that i'd see on the streets, he's just as ignorant as me - aka - NORMAL.
His types of comments are fairly common amongst Australian citizens white, black, yellow etc.
If i say to my indigenous mate 'sup choco', is that nickname a cruel reference to his chocolate coloured skin and thus label me as the next potential Hitler? FMD...Australia has become waaay too overly sensitive to small talk.

 

[oldmancraigy]

However ignorant Johns might be is completely irrelevant.

He is paid to be in the public limelight as a TV personality, and therefore needs to learn (as part of his job) appropriate ways to talk to, or about, people.

And if he hasn't yet grasped that, let's hope he starts taking lessons?

 

[Maroubra Eel]

I have been guilty of it in the past. Once whilst watching a game of test match cricket between aus and England I referred to them as pommie bastards. I also said some bad stuff about the kiwis the last time we played them in the footy. I am going to clean up my act from here on in.

 

[bartman]

It was a joke! We always say NSWelsmen are better than Queenslanders, stupid Queenslanders etc. It's part of footy!

My apologies, I didn't get the joke. Harder for me to pick up humour through written words on the screen.

I'm asking you, would you go for the Storm in a Grand Final if one of the eels staff or players made a racial comment?

I would definitely suspend my support for the Eels in that case - unless the matter was dealt with appropriately straight away (eg the Eels player/staffer stood down/suspended/sacked).

Um, you said 'What is the difference between saying something racist and being a racist? nothing in my book. ' And then said 'I've made racist comments in my life'. By your book, it makes you a racist, you should obviously be fired from any position you currently hold...

No, it made me a racist when I was in school, at the time I was making comments. Like it makes Johns a racist now, at the time he is making comments and while we are discussing his actions.

There is obviously a ton of difference. If I called my best mate 'blacky', and he is aboriginal, and he laughs about it and called me 'vanilla something or other', I would not be racist. Why? Because even though it was a racial comment, he is my best mate, and I obviously do not discriminate against other races.

I see your point, but I just disagree. Read Poupou's posts in the last day here to see how he's realising that this isn't on, due to the effect it can have on people other than you and your best mate that hear it.

And yeah, the hypothetical was about 'gay' being used as a synonym for 'bad' these days. And that if the slur was made about a person who was not gay, yet a gay member of the team walked out, would it be the same? I was simply asking because the term 'gay' is used a lot more in a derogatory sense than the word 'black'.

I still don't understand what point you're making other than gay as a word is used more than black? As I've said, my reaction to it would be the same - stand down/suspend/sack the player, vilification is outside the games' code of conduct.

And sorry about the shut up fool thing, frustrated moods is all.

No worries, just had to call you on it ;-)

 

[bartman]

Good to see that Parra is going to review Andrew John's ongoing role with our club in light of his racism. .

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...-in-racism-row-20100614-yacb.html?autostart=1

Johns's role as a coaching consultant at Parramatta, Tahu's club, is set to be reviewed next week because of his remarks while News Ltd, which pays him to write columns, has said it will discuss its association with the former Blues halfback. Another employer, Channel Nine, has said it has accepted his apology.

I hope Parra/Osborne and News Ltd show more spine than Channel 9...

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I have been guilty of it in the past. Once whilst watching a game of test match cricket between aus and England I referred to them as pommie bastards. I also said some bad stuff about the kiwis the last time we played them in the footy. I am going to clean up my act from here on in.

f**k the Poms and the Kiwis.

Nationality isn't the touchy subject that ethnicity is, especially in multicultural countries like England and New Zealand.

 

[Parra Guru]

A couple of things on reflection

1. No one should have let Anthony Mundine get involved, the blame all of a sudden shifted from Johns to the State of NSW where the selectors have been branded racist. Mundine has a fight coming up doesn't he??? Typical.

2. I think Tahu was totally right to do what he did. It's shown up Johns to be the ignorant fool he is. Unrelated to this incident, I do however think that Tahu is a selfish individual at times, and makes a lot of things about himself. Highlighted in the article Strider posted:
http://www.smh.com.au/text/articles/2010/05/22/1273948213184.html


3. Andrew Johns has been and always will be a protected species at the Nine network...

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...-in-racism-row-20100614-yacb.html?autostart=1

The racism storm surrounding the NSW Origin camp has taken a new twist with the revelation Timana Tahu walked out on the team because of remarks Andrew Johns made about Israel Folau as well as Greg Inglis.
Tahu, who left the NSW camp at Kingscliff on Friday, released a video statement late yesterday addressing his reasons for pulling out of Origin II at Suncorp Stadium tomorrow night.
It had been thought that assistant coach Johns's description of Queensland centre Inglis as a ''black c---'' at a team gathering last Wednesday night was the sole catalyst for his departure. However, Tahu said disparaging comments of a racist nature had not only been directed at Inglis, who is Aboriginal.


''This has been a very traumatic and hurtful time for me and my family and I want to thank everybody for the support I have received,'' Tahu said from Newcastle, where he has been staying with his family since leaving the camp.
''Leaving Origin was a really big decision for me and I'd like to clarify that it was not just one racial comment directed at one individual that offended me. The remarks were directed at various races and the situation I encountered was totally unacceptable.''
It is understood Johns also referred to AFL-bound Maroons winger Folau, who is Polynesian, in a negative racial tone although it was last night unclear exactly what words he used. Johns left the NSW camp on Saturday night after issuing a joint statement with Tahu.
''I believe I am a role model for children and I did this to show my kids this type of behaviour is wrong,'' Tahu said yesterday. ''This isn't about me or Andrew Johns.
''It's about arresting racism and standing up for my beliefs. I want to move on now and I know something positive will come from this.'' Johns's role as a coaching consultant at Parramatta, Tahu's club, is set to be reviewed next week because of his remarks while News Ltd, which pays him to write columns, has said it will discuss its association with the former Blues halfback.
Another employer, Channel Nine, has said it has accepted his apology.
Johns's manager, John Fordham, issued a statement last night.
''In view of Andrew Johns having previously apologised sincerely and unreservedly for his inappropriate and offending remarks we see no need to comment further,'' Fordham said.
Tahu, who was replaced in the Blues line-up by Canberra's Joel Monaghan, will re-join his Parramatta teammates at Eels training tomorrow.
Once back in Sydney, the dual international may have an opportunity to speak with NSWRL and ARL supremo Geoff Carr, who has been unsuccessful in his attempts to contact Tahu since the furore erupted at the weekend.
''My view is if he's got issues with the game he simply needs to speak to me,'' Carr said.
''I've made that invitation clear…I've been trying to get a hold of him.''
Meanwhile, Queensland hooker Cameron Smith yesterday played down suggestions of widespread racism in the game.
A teammate of Inglis at club, interstate and international level, Smith said he supported Tahu's stance but said calls by former NRL star and boxing world champion Anthony Mundine for other indigenous players to withdraw were ''a bit extreme''.
''It comes down to the individual and how they feel. Timana obviously felt very strongly which is why he left,'' Smith said.
''I think it would hurt the game if all the indigenous boys left and it would hurt the fans.
''I don't think Greg's ever thought he had to leave because Timana did.
''Timana felt very strongly about it and obviously we support him, not because he's left the NSW camp or disrupted their Origin. I think Greg would like to go out on Wednesday night and have a strong game and show he can get past these issues and that he's got a strong character.''

 

[Maroubra Eel]

f**k the Poms and the Kiwis.

Nationality isn't the touchy subject that ethnicity is, especially in multicultural countries like England and New Zealand.

I see what you mean.

f**k the Lebanese, Italians, Greeks and Chinese too!

 

[Gronk]

f**k the Poms and the Kiwis.

Nationality isn't the touchy subject that ethnicity is, especially in multicultural countries like England and New Zealand.

Agree. No need here to pull our heads in like turtles. Pommies will always be bastards when we play them in cricket. Likewise they will always give us heaps. This is not racism.

 

[strider]

I think ME has a good point - its interesting how we pick and choose what is and isn't correct .... it's said its incorrect if it hurts someone - yet we draw the line in places like we know what does and doesn't hurt specific groups :-s

 

[Gronk]

I see what you mean.

f**k the Lebanese, Italians, Greeks and Chinese too!

Germans are divers. :x

 

[Tank30]

I find it funny how many time that the word black has been used in the media (ie Obama is the first black president) and on this forum and this is not seen as racist but when the C-bomb is attached to it, it somehow becomes racist.

Racism is defined as

the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races

Can someone please tell me how what Joey said implies that GI is inferior because of his race or in any discriminates against him?

I personally find the C-Bomb to be far more offensive that the descriptive word before it and would be extremely suprised if the same reaction would occur if the term White C-Bomb was used...

 

[Gronk]

I find it funny how many time that the word black has been used in the media (ie Obama is the first black president) and on this forum and this is not seen as racist but when the C-bomb is attached to it, it somehow becomes racist.

Racism is defined as

the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races

Can someone please tell me how what Joey said implies that GI is inferior because of his race or in any discriminates against him?

I personally find the C-Bomb to be far more offensive that the descriptive word before it and would be extremely suprised if the same reaction would occur if the term White C-Bomb was used...

Yes it certainly is complex and I'm sure that there are plenty who would argue that comments about being fat, ugly or stupid hurt far more.

Tolerance is the key.

 

[Snoochies]

I find it funny how many time that the word black has been used in the media (ie Obama is the first black president) and on this forum and this is not seen as racist but when the C-bomb is attached to it, it somehow becomes racist.

Racism is defined as

the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races

Can someone please tell me how what Joey said implies that GI is inferior because of his race or in any discriminates against him?

I personally find the C-Bomb to be far more offensive that the descriptive word before it and would be extremely suprised if the same reaction would occur if the term White C-Bomb was used...

Well one things for sure, the whole situation definitely isn't black and white. :sarcasm:

Can I say that?

 

[The EELiminator]

I find it funny how many time that the word black has been used in the media (ie Obama is the first black president) and on this forum and this is not seen as racist but when the C-bomb is attached to it, it somehow becomes racist.

Racism is defined as

the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races

Can someone please tell me how what Joey said implies that GI is inferior because of his race or in any discriminates against him?

I personally find the C-Bomb to be far more offensive that the descriptive word before it and would be extremely suprised if the same reaction would occur if the term White C-Bomb was used...

its strange if joey had called inglis 'that c***' would anyone have been offended? likewise if he just said 'that black guy' is that racist? it seems like 'black' and 'c***' are acceptable on their own but as soon as you put the two together its racism

 

[Stagger eel]

Bartman, let me paint you a little scenareo for you and I want to know how you feel about this, lets say NSW win on Wednesday night and in the euphoria of the celebrations, certain NSW players get together without the players with indingenious and poly backround for a group photo...actually lets say for the sake of this discussion that there about 8 players of anglo saxon backround in the squad and have all got together for a group photo in the middle of the arena...

what would your reaction be??...