Top ten things Rugby owes to league

[ANTiLAG]

I'll say it again, if a coach like Jack Gibson thought that an around the corner kicker would have given his team an advantage then he would have had more than one of his players learning it so it could be game-used.

Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of Jack Gibson would know that he was an innovator. If he believed that an around the corner kicker would have given his team an advantage, he'd have been all over it.

errr, what the f**k is a widgie board you simpleton. Are you trying to say Ouija board?

He didn't need it, that's why he didn't use it. I'm pretty sure Jack was aware of instep kicking considering his time spent in the US with NFL teams.

If he didn't implement it, it's because he felt he didn't need it. But feel free to crack open the "widgie" board and ask him yourself you disrespectful toad.

If Jack Gibson thought he could get even a slight advantage over other teams he would have done it in a heartbeat. Hell, throw in any coach for that matter. They would be remiss in their duty if they didn't based on your thoughts. You seem to be again suggesting that over the course of a career, goalkickers from certain eras weren't able to be taught how to kick a ball around the corner.

SO WHY DOES EVERY COACH NOW HAVE A ROUND THE CORNER KICKER? Are they all sabotaging their teams? You idiot. Round the corner is better because of the foots contact on the ball. ALL OTHER FACTORS ARE IRRELEVANT. Dwyer states himself in that article.

In step generates more power and greater accuracy in all conditions. There were no tees, or manicured grounds, or synthetic balls when it developed in Union (IN THE 70'S) and League in 1990s....

You have failed to answer this question satisfactorily. You can't. You've lost. A smart person would walk away. But you dug yourself into this hole.

Go pick on my spelling mistakes. Apparently they mean something to you.

 

[ANTiLAG]

You seem to blinded a sheer hatred of Union that you lose all objectivity, common sense, and sadly logic.

But you resort to name calling - not when I've made a mistake - but when you have no logical or critical retort. Its very sad from apparently a grown man.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Sure, as long as you have a small understanding of the word you're trying to use is spelt.You didn't.
Spelling error just doesn't cover it champ.

[FONT=&quot]If not a spelling mistake, what is it when someone spells a word incorrectly but phoenetically. Pretty sure the word for that is a mistake. A mistake of what/ Spelling. Therefore it is a spelling mistake. Next.
[/FONT]

Toe-poking was more than on the way out when Ridge began his career in the NSWRL.

Absolutely - just like the dinosaurs toe - poking was on its way out as soon as it began.

Feel free to list the first choice goalkickers in 1990 in the NSWRL and let us all know who the toepokers were.

Lets see the top4 point scorers in 1990;

1 Mal Meninga - toe poker - 63% Yuck
2 Greg Alexander - round the corner - 65.5% Yuck
3 Ricky Walford - toe poker - 64% Yuck
4 Dale Dhearer - toe poker - 55% Yuck

The only top 4 scorer in 1992 still poking in Terry Matterson - but then he had over 100 shots at goal. Man Brisban scored a lot of tries that year.

According to you, no one took it up because it was too hard to learn, yet Ron Giteau taught himself.

Whereas Hazem had Darryl Halligan to teach him. Who's better?

As I said before, Coaches have always looked for an edge, it's their job to look for an edge. If the coaches of the time thought that they could gain an advantage using it, they would have used it. To think otherwise is borderline geniused.

I agree. As such John Grays coach did use him. Willie Horne's coach did use him. Clearly noone at Parramatta under Jack Gibson was a round the corner kicker. Guess noone there had learned to do it. Guess Mick Croniin was not as curious and determined as Ron Giteau was.

errr, no it isn't.

An argument needs premises and a conclusion. The conclusion (or proposition) must follow logically from the premises in order to be a valid argument. TO be a good argument the premises must be true. Clearly, you have nfi what an intellectual argument is.

God you're a wanker.

Not really a response to my point.

You said "Notice from the article that 75% of union kickers were round the corner".
No interpretation required.
See above.

Sydney Union kickers was implied from my reference to the article, which itself explicitly states sydney union kickers. You do know what implied means? You have no point here.

But you're not a Union fan?

Only watch Union tests.

Don't be so f**king wet. The last time Union was ahead of Rugby League in NSW in any way, shape or form was the day before Rugby League began in NSW.

No Union was miles ahead in goal kicking accuracy through the late 70's all of the 80's and probably the 90's too. Even now Union goal kickers probably have the edge overall. But Henry paul, Hazem El Masri, and other league kickers do hold records. The gap is certainly closer these days.

A bunch of Pimms drinking Godfrey-Smythes kicking around the corner at places like Gordon and Eastwood is about as relevant as Rugby Union is in NSW right now.

You have no point about toe poking accuracy vs round the corner accuracy here.

errr, no.

Err, yes.
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/1990_sc.html >>> full of pokers.

Ridge and Halligan were top shelf kickers but they didn't revolutionise sh*t. They just did it better than most.

Well they had an advantage. They were trained how to goal kick by 80's union kickers. But the revolution they caused was teh rate at which toe - poking more rapidly became extinct. Evolution was always eventually going to rid the NSWRL of poking - they just assisted it happening sooner.

Who the f**k is Hewson and why do you have such a hard-on for ex-Union Kiwis?

A former All Black who was an awesome goal kicker. Not a big man - but would slot kicks from half way with ease. Such a talented guy; after he retired he spent many years all over the show teaching people how to kick goals. I don't have a priapism for ex- union kiwis. I just recognise and admire talent.

And?

Read this name;

John Gray.

His first kick at goal in the NRL had more effect than all the players you mentioned combined.

You want to know how I know that?

I was there. I saw it. I saw first hand the reaction to it in the following months.

read this name - Willie Horne. Kicked goals in the 1952 tour of Australia. You want to know how I know that? I read.

I see, you can bag Cronin for kicking 50% in 1986 over 30 kicks, but when it comes to this one, you want a minimum of 50 kicks? Life just doesn't work that way dopey.

Yes it does.

In 1992, Tim Brasher had a better percentage than Crossan, Schuster and Ridge. Terry Lamb had a better percentage than Schuster.

OK - Brasher's career average was what - 60%. Obviously the 21 goals he got that year was rather fortuitous.

Lamb's career average was 63%.

Crossan, Schuster, Halligan and Ridge all over 70%....

In 1991 Halligan kicked at 63%. (no need to wonder why you went for 1992 now is there?) :lol:

Because 1992 was Crossans first year. Halligans first year was worse than that Everlastin. Halligan actually missed a critical goal against Penrith in 1991 finals that he reckons cost Norths getting into the grand final. Haunted him until he kicked that famous sideline one against Parramatta years later.

Schuster was behind Jason Taylor and Rod Maybon. Halligan was behind, well, almost everyone.

Jason Taylor was a great round the corner kicker...

In 1993 it was Cleary's turn to get beaten. By Jason Taylor and Chook Herron.

Both of whom are round the corner kickers.

In 1994 Crossan kicked at 62%.

1994 Crossan had his own fans booing him. His confidence was wrecked after his debut year. He could not cut it. Laughing stock of the league... Career average over 70% though. Better than a toe poker.

Your argument is falling apart at the seams.

Where are the toe pokers now? They're extinct. Its a crap technique. Round the corner is better.

Would you like a tissue?

And stop talking wank. You've just tried to bullsh*t your way through your stupid argument.

Minimum 50 goals?

Well the worthiness statistics increases the larger the pool of data. Paul Anderson kicked one goal in his life - but has a 100% goal kicking accuracy - is this meaningful - no. I se Cronin 1986 stats because that is all that is available on nrl.stats.com. No ulterior motive. But no union kicker ever had a year that bad...

1992?

Ring any bells?

You want the argument using only your "special" parameters corkhead. the sure sign of someone whose argument has gone to pack.

See above. See your Jack Gibson argument. See your equipment argument. This particular one of mine can be challenged - but yours just falls over.

Where did I say that?

SO YOU AGREE ROUND THE CORNER IS BETTER THAN TOE POKING? Thus if something is better and you do not have it your team is at a disadvantage?

Then why did you run off that spiel about Jack Gibson?

Which is it - did Jack stuff up. Or did Jack not have a round the corner kicker available? COuld Jack not train a round the corner kicker?

Either way - you're inconsistent.

Here's your big chance.

See above - I shoot I score.

Toepoking suited the eras it was used in. Do I have to say it over and over again?

You can say over and over - but how does an era impact a boot kicking a ball? It doesn't.

ROund the corner is better in all eras, on all grounds, with or without all equipment because of the ammount of boot striking the ball, and the ability for the kicker to kick through the ball giving his leg a longer swing.

Do you actually play sports? Have you actually played a sport before?

Golf, tennis, thrown a cricket ball... Tried to do those things front on. Compared this to opening the hip up. Get more power when you open the hip up. Same for goal kicking. Thats 1 reason why round the corner started. The other is the ammount of boot is increased dramatically that strikes the ball. Would you play cricket by swinging with a leading edge? No. You wouldn't. it wouldn't be an wise in any cricet era. So why is era relevant for goal kicking? Its not. Its a red herring you've fallen into.

Are you really that thick?

Clearly you are if you think toe poking suited ANY ERA. It doesn't. its like playing cricket with a leading edge of the bat for accuracy. Its like swinging a golf club with no hip movement. ITS STUPID.

Post them.

Career averages.

NSWRL games only.

Your parameters this time.

Off you go.[/quote]

Halligan 855/1078 + Ridge 580/723 + Schuster 101/141 + Crossan 140/199 + Botica 19/26 = 1695/2167 = 78.2%

Now thats a pretty high number. Hazem pips his subsequently - who trained him? Oh yeah - Halligan.

Now what career goal kickers were hitting this mark before 1990? Name them.

Why wouldn't I accept that as fact?

You're f**king mental.

But for sh*ts and giggles, post them.

Off you go.

Forums aren't a matter of making a point that you think is correct, it's a matter of proving your point.

Off you go.

Already have done -
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/1986_sc.html
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/1986_sc.html
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/1989_sc.html
and
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/2000_sc.html
and
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/2010_sc.html

Look at those numbers climb.

Why would you think toepoking is extinct?

Because it is such a crap way to kick a ball it would never appear in professional sport as a regular kick technique.

Because it isn't used in the NRL?

ESL, NRL, UNION....

LOL

You seem to think i have this inbuilt determination that toepoking is better than around the corner.

You came in here supporting Loudstrat... defending Cronin's technique.... Talking gibberish about eras, and leather balls.

Feel free to quote hwere I said that or even hinted at that.

been there done that. Are you agreeing that round the corner is better now? Thus Cronin had a crap technique?

Absolutely not.



Sure they did.

You're so stupid.



err, no.

FFS, I should get a macro for this sentence;

If Jack Gibson thought for one moment he could have gained an edge on the opposition he would have taken it. The fact that he and other coaches of his era didn't choose to train around the corner kickers kills your arguments stone dead.

You're wrong and stupid. Its about a boot kicking a ball - one way - the modern way - is the better way. NSWRL coaches were wayyyy behind the times when it came to round the corner kicking.

You didn't know how to spell ouija until you came here. I mean, seriously, you give the old thesaurus a work out but you didn't think to look up the spelling of ouija?

I'm glad my vocabulary impresses you but I don't use a thesaurus.

As for the rest of your mindless pap;

You actually seem to be saying you know better than Jack Gibson.

No you're saying Jack Gibson knows better than every coach who uses a round the corner kicker.

Your answer to the simplest question as to why they didn't use around the corner kickers earlier is; It was too hard to learn.

Yes. Why do you think Fox, Hewson, Ridge, Halligan, Jason Taylor and others make money teaching people how to do it. If it was easy - your mum could teach you. Now - as with anything you couold learn yourself - if information is available or you have time for trial and error. But its far more efficient to be taught - thats why we have teachers for most things.

:?

Give me a break. ....:lol:

With pleasure.

 

[Green Machine]

By 1984, around the corner kickers were becoming more dominate. Eric Grothe was left out of the first test against Great Britain because the selectors wanted Ross Conlon for his kicking ability.
In 1984, Ron Giteau Raiders, Mick Eden Easts and Ricky Walford Norths were around the corner kickers. Greg Alexander was kicking for Penrith in 1985.
The biggest revolution of 1992 was not kicking, but the Brisbane Broncos refusing to take penalty kicks and playing on. Before that, it was a cardial sin not to take the two points when it was on offer from a penalty. Today, 9 times out of 10, everyone in Rugby League plays on,

 

[Loudstrat]

Just a quick recap of Antilag's growing list of League identies who are crap:

Martin Offiah
Michael Cronin
Mal Meninga
Jack Gibson

As opposed to the revolutionary Eoin Crossan............
Mal

My reply is the same as before - Cronin kicking more goals at a far lower percentage does not make him a better goal kicker dumb dumb. So you're saying that Ridge at over 80% was not as good goal kicker as Cronin at 50%? Is that what you're saying? With a higher accuracy percentage clearly Ridge attempted less goals to have a lower average of kicked goals per game.

Ridge has two functional eyes idiot.
Ridge was the best kicker ever because his stats were better than a one eyed publican nearing 40 years of age. Wow - convincing......

I am absolutely speechless that Loudstrat and Ever Lovin AntiChrist think that toe hacking is a more accurate form of kicking than round the corner. For anything:

I wish you were bloody speechless instead of simply brainless. Neiher EA or I ever claimed that. I simply claimed that I'd back Cronin over the round the corner kickers anyday over 35m out. IMHO only the best exponents - Hasem, Johns, Taylor, Girdler, Burt and Soward - would have a chance against the best toe pokers - Cronin, Simms, Eadie, Longbottom and Barnes.

Toe hacking is crap: you've taken this as a personal attack on your beloved Cronin. Its not personal to him, Mal, Terry Matterson or any other toe hacker who was at their trade.

It is a personal attack - basing his efforts when he was half blind ffs!

Its a crap technique. The best at a crap technique still has a crap technique. Round the corner kicking is a far more controlled, far more accurate, and capable of getting far more distance than toe poking.

The proof - heres the world record:

Loudstrat and Ever Lostin - the world record penatly kick is 64 metres 1986 - leather ball - no tee - no sand. The kicker Paul Thorburn merely makes a divet and stands the ball in it.

Bullsh*t. RL1908 will confirm that the longest kick ever recorded was by a bloke from Double Bay by the name of Herbert Henry Messenger v Souths at the Sydney Sports Ground in about 1910. 65m. Toe Poker.

Round the corner kickers became vogue for many factors, but accuracy was the main one - influenced by many things:

• Synthetic balls introduced by Steeden in the early 1990's with a changed shape. Ricky Stuart stated that the had no "sweet spot" but generally were easier to kick because they had a larger contact area so it was easier to kick well - just no sweet spot to nail a boomer with when you were lucky. IN those days, general play kicking was more affected, with the influx of more and more technical kicks so by late in the decade Bred Fittler could put up 6 different types of bomb, the Johns brothers could kick mega accurately because they could influence it's spin easier, and in came things such as the banana kick. Out went the old torpedo punt, and toe poking dropped goals because the shape had changed to a rounder, less pointed shape. Suddenly the emphasis went to spinning the ball to gain distance - Ricky Stuart and the torpedo pass was revolutionary, Joey Johns advanced it, and now every pass is a torpedo. That was never part of the Sterling or Mortimer repertoire (confirmation pending whether you rate them as crap too). Toe Pokers were disadvantaged by the new balls - round the corners were advantaged.
• The 10m rule. Field position was easier, hence Allan Langers innovation of the quick tap. Modern league scholars will tell you that tries come mostly from a repeat set, and teams will always (bar Saints and their prancing fleabag) take the tap rather than the shot. Result? No one will take a shot from a penalty between the 30 and halfway anymore, because a touch finder and a few hitups will get you in range. Not so in the 1980's.
• INterchange. Forward pack with longer lasting momentum - exacerbating the field position thing above.
• Increase of value of tries from 3 points to 4. Suddenly a penalty goal is worth only half of a try and not 2/3rds.

Round the corner kickers lose distance. Fact. You can throw the 1/10 000 chance Union shots of flukes with a gale at their backs. Explain the common incidence of RTC kickers FALLING SHORT from 35 out? Jared Croker for example? If that was Cronin taking that shot in his days (you know - with TWO WORKING EYES), it had less chance of falling short than the sun appearing over the eastern horison in the morning.

Union started rtound the corner in the 70's and by the early 80's it was everywhere. In 1990 - Ridge was the first accurate round the corner kicker - the next year there were several/ THe union invasion of goal kicking was witnessed by most.

Never repeat that statement in the presence of an admissions clerk at a mental institution if you plan to keep your frontal lobe.

• Union DID NOT start round the corner in the 1970's (John Gray, remember?)
• It was not everywhere by the early 1980's. Cronin, remember?

From memory the pommy league player Lee Crooks was also an early exponent of the round the corner kick with Wests in the mid eighties. Good ball playing 2nd rower who could kick goals. Like John Gray earlier I say he also was influential in the gradual change over.

Yes, part of the chain from John Gray

It's like trying to explain theoretical physics to a stapler.

:lol:

And another thing - Hasem El Masri knew how to kick round the corner long before some sheepshagging Kiwi genius ever met him. Soccer background.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Dumb Dumb - I thought we had got rid of you.

Paste me where I said jack Gibson was crap. You cannot.

Paste me where I said Mel Menginga was crap. You cannot.

Paste me where I said Mick Cronin was crap. You cannot. There is no personal attack on him regard blindness. This is both paranoid and delusional.

All you do is lie and say stupid things. Is it really worth your while comming onto the internet? Do you really think people care for your lies and stupidity?

You want to claim records - offer proof. Preferably video. I like to see it with my own eyes.

The fact remains due to physics that round the corner kicking allows the kicker to transfer his weight and kick through the ball with a longer leg swing by angling the body back to the ball and by utlising the human body's hip movement. This cannot be replicated with a toe poke. THus round the corner allows the kick to generate more power. More power means more distance.

More of this power is transferred onto ANY SHAPED BALL RUGBY ball as the contact area of inside of the foot and heel is greater than just a toe.

You don't swing a pool cue (any shaft shape without a club face) to hit a golf ball if you want accuracy over a distance of more than 15 metres so why use a toe to kick ANY SHAPED rugby ball when you can use a foot and heel.

Why the hell would anyone who power and distance use a technique that allows for a shorter leg swing and not kicking through the ball?

So unless there have been signifant developments in human evolution since the 80's, 70's and 60's toe poking was always an inefficent, needless less accurate and therefore a crap technique.

This is common sense - this is the commonly accepted norm. If you wish to disproove every single kicking coach in professional rugby right now the burden of proof is on you to do otherwise.

Its about a foot hitting a ball from the ground - the type of ball, tees, sand, sawdust, mud is all irrelevant. The toe is always going to be less accurate - you have less surface area to work with thus mistakes are going to be exaggerated - like edging a ball in cricket. Wider bat - less chance to edge. Straight on means the body cannot transfer the weight through the kick, and thus less power.

You can challenge me on Ridge not being as influential as John Gray if you like Loudstrat. That is my debate with RL1908 - but I have buried you on this 'distance' argument. I have buried you on the accuracy argument. You're wrong. And everyone out there who kicks goals knows you're wrong.

With regards your failed comprehension of my posts above - round the corner was widespread and the common norm in union well before it was in league. Even RL1908 concedes that.

By the way - this whole two eye thing - convergence of two eyes gives you the ability to perceive distance and depth. But you shoot rifles, pistols and play pool with one eye. So you should be able to toe poke with one eye as good as you can with 2 given a kicker has a standard routine in his run up to the ball. Its about the aim with straight targets. I am not surprised you are not aware of this dumb dumb.

To say toe poking was better in the era is to deny laws of physics and commonsense. To say toe poking gives greater distance denies laws of physics and common sense. Toe poking was crap then - its crap now. For any and every rugby ball - for any and every ground - for any and every piece of equipment out there. Thats why it is extinct. Humans were wisened up that round the corner is better. NSWRL just took longer to wisen up and widely evolve than the rest of the world. The last front line toe poker I can remember from the All Blacks was Joe Karam in 1975. 19 years later Mal is still doing it for Autralia and 20 years later and Terry Matterson is still doing it in the NSWRL.

*Congrats on finally realising it was Croker and not Dugan. A lesser person, such as yourself, would have performed a song about that error.

Over 30m out, from anywhere on the field, I would back Cronin, Simms, Eadie, Gearin any day over the round the corner hacks. The reaspon? Distance. We saw the flaw in rounders via Josh Dugan. Themoves are so rehearsed that they basically produce the same kick, from a different part of the field.

Of course the best round the corner kick involved kicking a wet leather ball with no tee or sand on wet pitch 64 metres with no visible wind. Deary me - you should tell them they've got it wrong and they should go back to poking.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Round the corner kickers lose distance. Fact. You can throw the 1/10 000 chance Union shots of flukes with a gale at their backs.

No gale for those kicks. Steyn has kicked so many of those to be considered a fluke. Its a fact round the corner kickers can impose more power on the ball due to physics of human anatomy.

And another thing - Hasem El Masri knew how to kick round the corner long before some sheepshagging Kiwi genius ever met him. Soccer background.

Thats like saying my year 1 law professor didn't teach me how to read statutes because I read Dr Seuss when I was 3. For 1 - Its a different shaped ball so the nuances will be different. Hazem could kick round the corner, yes. Are you seriously saying Darryl never coached Hazem's kicking... You're wrong...

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/halligans-goalkickers-go-head-to-head-20090922-g0bl.html

Refer Halligan website also for term "coached" as opposed "worked with"

Halligan has also coaches;
M Gordon, B Goodwin, L Burt, K Gidley, J Maloney (took him off Botica this season), and coached M Witt to awesome success. He did extensive work and greatly improved A Johns' kicking with extensive coaching.

He's even worked with some average ones:

C Fitzgibbon (yeah Im harsh), Orford, C SMith, Noddy, Covell.

He taught J Thurston how to kick, then did rework with him about the hook, to decrease thus control the hook.

You want links for all of them?

http://www.nrl.com/NewsViews/LatestNews/NewsArticle/tabid/10874/newsId/54339/Default.aspx

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/bulldog-has-big-boots-to-fill-20100210-nruc.html

http://www.ovations.com.au/presenter_detail/daryl_halligan/48847/1

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10609279

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10390493 - got Joey from 60% upto 80% last 5 seasons under continued instruction. See that Everast - even the best need to be contually taught how to kick the ball

Need anymore - I'll provide them... or you could just do a google search - you'll find them...

In Union he teaches: D Carter, J OConnor and taught M Giteau (who seems to have dropped off the boil without him) to name but a few.

Maybe Crokers problem is that Canberra don't have Halligan doing the kicking coaching at the moment - but more likely - the kid choked under the pressure. The kid is only human.

I'm sorry - but John Gray has a miniscule of the influence in goal kicking that Ridge, Halligan and Botica have had. He didn't share the knowledge around. Jason Taylor admitedly coaches the Roosters now (stolen from Halligan by offering his services for free post Souths) and Benji.

At any moment halligan can be coaching half the NRL are clubs that i know he has been contracted with. This list is not absolute. - NQ, Parramatta, NZW, Storm, Bulldogs, Knights, Sharks, Panthers, Raiders

http://www.thefordhamcompany.com.au/clients/daryl-halligan

And Everlast will tell you you dont need a coach to kick because R Giteau taught himself

Union ball easier to kick? In League (Soward) v Union (Halangahu) - Union missess twice with a union ball but nails the steeden kick...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1oPABOWcAg

Any more wives tails you boys wanna bring up?

 

[Loudstrat]

Sorry, my eyes glazed over when you asked for a video of Dally Messenger in 1908. I have it here somewhere, next to the live footage of Noah building the ark......
BTW, Cronin taught Rod Wishart - another record breaking Kangaroo.

EA - isn't the internet a mine of information. I have learned:

• Nazi Germany wasn't nasty at all
• Vichy France existed because the French Army blocked the Wermacht in the middle of France
• Matthew Ridge and NZ Union invented round the corner kicking, and John Gray, Lee Crooks, Mike Eden and Ross Conlon copied it 15 years earler.
• Being blind is in no way a deterrent for goal kicking.
• Jack Gibson found that teaching someone to kick with the instep was too hard
• Eion Crossan revolutionised League
• Videos existed in 1908
• Jared Croker, whose kick fell short from 35m out, can kick longer than Mick Cronin who nailed 'em from halfway.
• Jonathon Thurston never kicked a ball until he met Daryl Halligan as a young man at Canterbury
• There goals you kick, he worse kicker you are

And who said you cannot learn anything off the internet. Thanks Antibrain, you are a real font of knowledge. :lol::lol:


I am convinced that you and Scumdog are brothers - conceived when Lindsay Lohan visited Chernobyl.

 

[muzby]

It's like trying to explain theoretical physics to a stapler.

yeah don't bother trying to explain stuff to antilag... he just doens't possibly believe that anything could be different to his way of thinking..

and rather than consider anything, he'll just type in capitals hoping that you'll back down..

 

[Squatdog]

Nazi Germany wasn't nasty at all
Vichy France existed because the French Army blocked the Wermacht in the middle of France

Reading comprehension obviously isn't your strong point.

Greg Florimo is saddened by your lies.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Sorry, my eyes glazed over when you asked for a video of Dally Messenger in 1908. I have it here somewhere, next to the live footage of Noah building the ark......
BTW, Cronin taught Rod Wishart - another record breaking Kangaroo.

Except Rod Wishart was a round the corner kicker...

EA - isn't the internet a mine of information. I have learned:

• Nazi Germany wasn't nasty at all
• Vichy France existed because the French Army blocked the Wermacht in the middle of France

• Matthew Ridge and NZ Union invented round the corner kicking, and John Gray, Lee Crooks, Mike Eden and Ross Conlon copied it 15 years earler.

  Never did I say that. In fact I referred to WIllie Horne in the 1940's. You're desperate.

• Being blind is in no way a deterrent for goal kicking.

  Have partially damaged sight in one eye - its not like he was a cricket batsmen. My gf's dad is legally blind and he still drives a boat!

• Jack Gibson found that teaching someone to kick with the instep was too hard

  Wow. Stripped the context of that one. The facts are goal kicking has evolved to round the corner and he had a toe poker, why? Now if it was easy to train someone to round the corner, and round the corner is established (which it is) as the far superior tenchnique, are you suggesting Jack Gibson was sabotaging his team? You have to remember there was no Darryl Halligan running round giving goal kicking classes in 1982. Or do you just deny still that round the corner is better? Still? Do you deny evolution as well? Its liek trying to argue with a mid west religious fundamentalist denying Darwin.

• Eion Crossan revolutionised League

  Paste where I said that... I said he was PART of a revolution of accurate union kickers comming into the NSWRL and raising goal kicking standards.

• Videos existed in 1908

  Movie cameras existed the late 19th centrury (thats 1800's dumb dumb).

• Jared Croker, whose kick fell short from 35m out, can kick longer than Mick Cronin who nailed 'em from halfway.

  Now where did I say that? ROund the corner kickers kick em from 60+ out. Distance aint an issue with round the corner - you can generate more power. Now Croker aint Steyn - but I am sure Croker should be able to kick a ball 40+ metres... He had a bad kick and choked. Now i showed three different round the corner kickers clearing 60+ metres and you respond with one Dally Messenger.... but offer no film proof. Just take the historians word for it eh? Dally M was a super star - imagine how far he could have kciked if he had a tound the corner technique...

• Jonathon Thurston never kicked a ball until he met Daryl Halligan as a young man at Canterbury

  Halligan taught him how to goal kick. Its in the links dumb dumb.

• There goals you kick, he worse kicker you are

  English? You mean goal kicked per game> Depends on how many attempts you have thus what percentage you're running at dumb dumb.

And who said you cannot learn anything off the internet. Thanks Antibrain, you are a real font of knowledge. :lol::lol:

I can teach you facts - but I am not sure anyone can teach you how to comprehend and be logical dumb dumb.

I am convinced that you and Scumdog are brothers - conceived when Lindsay Lohan visited Chernobyl.

She's only 24. You inferring you're getting taught by a less than ten year old? Dumb dumb - you're a fool.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Hey Loudstrat and Everlastin - seeing I am just destroying your assertions of misinformed fact such as 'round the corner has no distance' or 'Halligan never taught Hazem' or 'goal kickers do not benefit from teaching as they can self learn' or rate a goal kicker by 'its how many goals you land thus 6/10 is better than 5/6" why don't you just take what I say out of context and make lies up again?

Just shows you have intellectual capacity of pre teens. You don't even straw man. You just lie.

Toe poking is extinct for a reason - if it was remotely useful it would still be used - its not. Equipment has nothing to do with becoming extinct as it is about the physics of swinging a leg and making contact with the ball. Thats why round the corner kicking evolved with no tees, no sand, leather balls in wet conditions. Goal kickers who wanted more accuracy and distance naturally selected the round the corner technique. It is the only technique currently used un NSWRL - it survived and toe poking did not. It is straight Darwin - round the corner is the better technique, thus it survived and toe poking is extinct. Survival of the fittest. Equipment is irrelevant, it is primarily to do with hips and feet of the human body, and they have not noticably changed. Toe poking was always going to die - which is RL1908's argument - I just think Halligan, Ridge and co caused that death to come sooner as opposed to it being dragged out longer. THats the revolution I am talking of. COaches made it their mandate to make sure their team was not disadvantaged with a poker.

You guys are just making asses out of yourselves trying to argue for toe - poking in any era or for distance. Even if toe poking had more distance, and it doesn't, what does the distance matter if you're not putting it between the goal posts. Sure you get the ball back if you kick it dead - but you could ahve kciekd for touch and had better field position. You already concede that pokers would miss right in front loudstrat, but never explained why they got more accurate from 50 metres - a much harder kick for accuracy as the missed degrees are amplified over distance sending the ball further away from the black dot intended target. But it is laughable and shows ignorance to suggest toe poking generates more distance. Even if Dally Messenger planted a ball from 100 metres - he is one guy. An extraordinary human being, but you have not even offered any proof of this kick. I would prefer video else am I supposed to take the word of journalists, when Loudtrat, you discredit the journalists who award the Dally M medal. Hah. A video would let me know the wind conditions too - that is if there was a hurricane blowing behind him. But he is one man - and many MANY round the corner kickers have been plonking them over from beyond halfway since the 70's. Roudn the corner suffers not from distance shortages - and Croker - he choked. Was not his technique that let him down - he let himself down. Pressure situation. If he thought it was his technqiue I am sure he would spend the summer practicsing toe poking -and kick with a toe hack next year. But I bet you he doesn't.

RL1908 and I differ in opinion as to Ridge's influence in the extinction of toe poking and greater importance placed on goal kicking - but EA and Loudstrat - your propositions are illogical, fallacious and frankly, wrong. Toe poking died out because it was crap.

 

[Teddyboy]

Everlastin could pick a fight with his shadow.
What happend to love,life and unity.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Everlastin could pick a fight with his shadow.
What happend to love,life and unity.

Difference of opinion and intellectual debate and argument are good for the human condition as ideintified by Plato, Socrates and Aristotle. But lying, ignorance, tantrums, illogical assertions and failing to see reason never assists the debate.

 

[Loudstrat]

The f*ck off and let the debate flourish!

You say the synthetic balls make no difference, Ricky Stuart says otherwise. In fact, the pioneer toe pokers who used the old leather balls (Conlon, Crooks, Eden, et-al) had many attempts further than today's lot will ever attempt

RL was not televised in 1908 - are you saying that it is all a lie because you cannot see footage of it? FFS, people who witness events and write newspaper articles to be published the next morning are not historians. :lol:

When was the last goal landed from halfway in the NRL, Mr Distance. Because the secret to the swing of a round the corner kicker is very similar to that of a 7 iron shot - it's all about guiding the ball and connecting with the instep (wider contact point for accuracy). Wider contact point does not equal velocity. Power distribution relies on the velocity of the object as it collides with another, not surface area. There is greater velocity with a front on kick - the speed of the run adds to the speed of the foot, and the nee is designed primarily to allow the lower leg to move back and fourth. The sideways kick is from the hip, which has more restriction of movement.

Rounders for accuracy (why there must be at least 99.9% of NRL kicks are from within 35m of the try line - actually probably within 25m), wheere in the toe poking days the best kickers could land points from anywhere in the half.

If there is an advantage for round the corner kickers, its from wide angled kicks. Toe pokers cannot curve a ball, and wide angled kicks were a lottery. Which is where your sun-god worship of round the corner kickers is flawed, because the real jaw dropping incident that got people enthused with the skill of the round corner style was a bloke you ignioce (yes a Yawnion convert but not a Kiwi). Michael O'Connors sideline Origin goal.

And yes - you have the intelligence of a 10 year old conceived in a highly mutating environment.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

If not a spelling mistake, what is it when someone spells a word incorrectly but phoenetically. Pretty sure the word for that is a mistake. A mistake of what/ Spelling. Therefore it is a spelling mistake. Next.

Yeah, no.

You can call it whatever you like, but there is a limit to what can be considered misspelling as against downright stupidity.

You are well past that limit.

Absolutely - just like the dinosaurs toe - poking was on its way out as soon as it began.

It only took how many decades?

If around the corner lasts as long, it’ll be doing well.

Lets see the top4 point scorers in 1990;

1 Mal Meninga - toe poker - 63% Yuck
2 Greg Alexander - round the corner - 65.5% Yuck
3 Ricky Walford - toe poker - 64% Yuck
4 Dale Dhearer - toe poker - 55% Yuck

So there were only 4 teams in the NSWRL competition in 1990?

I actually recall that there were a few more than that.

You really should give up with picking stats selected specifically to suit your argument, when the whole picture isn’t quite as rosy for you.

The only top 4 scorer in 1992 still poking in Terry Matterson - but then he had over 100 shots at goal. Man Brisban scored a lot of tries that year.

Again, there were more than 4 teams in 1992.

Whereas Hazem had Darryl Halligan to teach him. Who's better?

Not the point.

You said they didn’t use it earlier because it was too hard to teach, which is utter bullsh*t.

According to you theory, Ron Giteau must be a rocket scientist.

I agree. As such John Grays coach did use him. Willie Horne's coach did use him. Clearly noone at Parramatta under Jack Gibson was a round the corner kicker. Guess noone there had learned to do it. Guess Mick Croniin was not as curious and determined as Ron Giteau was.

So, according to you Parramatta had only one option as a goalkicker throughout Gibson’s tenure?

Graeme Atkins will be surprised to hear that.

So, here we go again. You’re intimating that only Cronin was a possibility to be taught to kick around the corner. The bad news is, every player at any club is a possibility.

An argument needs premises and a conclusion. The conclusion (or proposition) must follow logically from the premises in order to be a valid argument. TO be a good argument the premises must be true. Clearly, you have nfi what an intellectual argument is.

You have no sense of humour at all champ. Who’d have figured?

I’m assuming you’ve never heard of Monty Python. How old are you, 12?

Your arguments are always bent. You use handpicked stats and tired arguments based on a hard on you have for Kiwi Union converts. So they’re bent in more ways than one.

Not really a response to my point.

It got what it deserved.

Sydney Union kickers was implied from my reference to the article, which itself explicitly states sydney union kickers. You do know what implied means? You have no point here.

Errr, no.

You didn’t mention “Sydney competition” in your statement, only “Union”.

Get the fact right and there isn’t a problem.

Only watch Union tests.

So what’s this then, a bag of apples?

I am not a union fan. I am a league fan.

No Union was miles ahead in goal kicking accuracy through the late 70's all of the 80's and probably the 90's too. Even now Union goal kickers probably have the edge overall. But Henry paul, Hazem El Masri, and other league kickers do hold records. The gap is certainly closer these days.

Again, your word is worth nothing. Post proof of that statement or don’t bother making it.

I’ll expect to see the top 4 of something….

You have no point about toe poking accuracy vs round the corner accuracy here.

It doesn’t need it. Sydney Club Union… LOL

Err, yes.

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/1990_sc.html >>> full of pokers.

Well they had an advantage. They were trained how to goal kick by 80's union kickers. But the revolution they caused was teh rate at which toe - poking more rapidly became extinct. Evolution was always eventually going to rid the NSWRL of poking - they just assisted it happening sooner.

A former All Black who was an awesome goal kicker. Not a big man - but would slot kicks from half way with ease. Such a talented guy; after he retired he spent many years all over the show teaching people how to kick goals. I don't have a priapism for ex- union kiwis. I just recognise and admire talent.

Like I said, they didn’t revolutionise sh*t.

And please, the thesaurus thing is so 2003 and the “I’m not a Union fan but I can recite the names of everyone who played for the All Blacks” is getting old too.

But really thanks for the info on the Union bloke even though I’ve forgotten his name already.

read this name - Willie Horne. Kicked goals in the 1952 tour of Australia. You want to know how I know that? I read.

Circular, and stupid. You’ll disappear up your own arsehole shortly.

Ridge, Crossan, that bloke who played 5 games and Halligan combined don’t get near equaling Gray’s impact on Sydney/NSW or Australian Rugby League.

Yes it does.

No.

You can’t pick 50 shots minimum to suit your argument and pick a year Cronin only had 30 and have any semblance of legitimacy.

Wake up to yourself.

OK - Brasher's career average was what - 60%. Obviously the 21 goals he got that year was rather fortuitous.

Lamb's career average was 63%.

I don’t know what their averages were, you seem to be passing yourself off as the expert. Post them, with links as proof thanks. Don’t guess.

Crossan, Schuster, Halligan and Ridge all over 70%....

And?

Because 1992 was Crossans first year. Halligans first year was worse than that Everlastin. Halligan actually missed a critical goal against Penrith in 1991 finals that he reckons cost Norths getting into the grand final. Haunted him until he kicked that famous sideline one against Parramatta years later.

No Excuses.

So you picked 1992 because Crossan was sh*t in 1993 and Halligan was sh*t in 1991. Neither year made your argument look intelligent.

Don’t lie, there’s no point. And stop picking parameters/years to suit yourself.

Jason Taylor was a great round the corner kicker...

How so, he wasn’t a Kiwi?

Both of whom are round the corner kickers.

But not Kiwis and Taylor actually started his first grade NSWRL career before Ridge. He was also kicking in lower grades prior to that at Wests, so he probably had more impact than Ridge.

Must irk you.

1994 Crossan had his own fans booing him. His confidence was wrecked after his debut year. He could not cut it. Laughing stock of the league... Career average over 70% though. Better than a toe poker.

So he didn’t play on after 1994?

Where are the toe pokers now? They're extinct. Its a crap technique. Round the corner is better.

You just concentrate on the NRL little man. Maybe if you ever get the chance to see some bush footy you might just run into a dinosaur or two.

Well the worthiness statistics increases the larger the pool of data. Paul Anderson kicked one goal in his life - but has a 100% goal kicking accuracy - is this meaningful - no. I se Cronin 1986 stats because that is all that is available on nrl.stats.com. No ulterior motive. But no union kicker ever had a year that bad...

Err no.

You wanted to restrict it to kickers in one season who had 50 kicks or more, but you were happy to crucify Cronin on the back of his 2006 stats which were based on 30 kicks.

In case you’re still confused.

Cronin played 7 first grade games in 1986 Dumb Dumb.

He played round 20 2/6
round 21 3/5
round 22 2/2
round 23 3/5
round 24 1/2
major Semi 2/6
GF 2/4

Thats a whopping high 50% Goal kick rate.

8 Crossan, Halligan and Schuster were signed for goal kicking. In 1992 what group of regular kickers (more thyan 50 kicks) has the greatest accuracy for goal kicking? Ah yes - the union convert 4.

You can have your cake and eat it too…. Just not here dopey.

See above. See your Jack Gibson argument. See your equipment argument. This particular one of mine can be challenged - but yours just falls over.

SO YOU AGREE ROUND THE CORNER IS BETTER THAN TOE POKING? Thus if something is better and you do not have it your team is at a disadvantage?

Then why did you run off that spiel about Jack Gibson?

He didn’t want or need them. If he did, he’d have had them. Around the corner kickers suit manicured grounds, kicking tees and synthetic balls.

He didn’t have any of those at Parramatta.

Which is it - did Jack stuff up. Or did Jack not have a round the corner kicker available? COuld Jack not train a round the corner kicker?

Ditto last reply.

Either way - you're inconsistent.

Yeah, no.

It’s not rocket science.

See above - I shoot I score.

Well yeah you did score, but own goals count against you.

Where did I say it?

You claimed I said it in this post;

So are you still saying the toe poking is better than round the corner?

So where did I say it?

Cat got your fingers?

Face facts, you’re a liar.

You can say over and over - but how does an era impact a boot kicking a ball? It doesn't.

Don’t act like a simpleton, just be one.

ROund the corner is better in all eras, on all grounds, with or without all equipment because of the ammount of boot striking the ball, and the ability for the kicker to kick through the ball giving his leg a longer swing.

\

No, it isn’t.

You’re like a little terrier aren’t you.

If round the corner kicking was around since Adam was a boy and wasn’t used in any great number until the late 1980’s…

Can you see where this is going…again….again…..again….

Do you actually play sports? Have you actually played a sport before?

Yep.

Have you?

And no, masturbating isn’t a sport.

Golf, tennis, thrown a cricket ball... Tried to do those things front on. Compared this to opening the hip up. Get more power when you open the hip up. Same for goal kicking. Thats 1 reason why round the corner started. The other is the ammount of boot is increased dramatically that strikes the ball. Would you play cricket by swinging with a leading edge? No. You wouldn't. it wouldn't be an wise in any cricet era. So why is era relevant for goal kicking? Its not. Its a red herring you've fallen into.

You have serious mental deficiencies.

Did a toepoker steal a girlfriend off you?

Clearly you are if you think toe poking suited ANY ERA. It doesn't. its like playing cricket with a leading edge of the bat for accuracy. Its like swinging a golf club with no hip movement. ITS STUPID.

It suited the eras it was used in.

If coaches thought they could get an advantage with them, they’d have been standard well before they were.

Again.

Halligan 855/1078 + Ridge 580/723 + Schuster 101/141 + Crossan 140/199 + Botica 19/26 = 1695/2167 = 78.2%

Now thats a pretty high number. Hazem pips his subsequently - who trained him? Oh yeah - Halligan.

Now what career goal kickers were hitting this mark before 1990? Name them.

And the links?

And is that all the converts?

Already have done -

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/1986_sc.html
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/1986_sc.html
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/1989_sc.html
and
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/2000_sc.html
and
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/2010_sc.html

Look at those numbers climb.

So, you post the scorers for 1986, 1989, 2000 and 2010 to answer the question;

“Do you now admit that in the 90's goal kicking accuracy greatly increased as opposed to stats of the 80's?”

It was your question you gimp.

Because it is such a crap way to kick a ball it would never appear in professional sport as a regular kick technique.

Who’s arguing that it will reappear in professional Union or Rugby League?

ESL, NRL, UNION....

It is used in the NRL, Union and the ESL so it doesn’t exist?

LOL

You came in here supporting Loudstrat... defending Cronin's technique.... Talking gibberish about eras, and leather balls.

It’s gibberish to you because well, and I’ll be as polite as possible, you’re a f**king moron.

been there done that. Are you agreeing that round the corner is better now? Thus Cronin had a crap technique?

No.

Let me know if you need it simplified.

You're wrong and stupid. Its about a boot kicking a ball - one way - the modern way - is the better way. NSWRL coaches were wayyyy behind the times when it came to round the corner kicking.

No, they weren’t.

NSWRL coaches were at the apex of all Rugby code coaching from the 1970’s onward. They knew about round the corner kicking but didn’t believe it would assist them.

f**k me dead, I’ve typed that 20 times.

I'm glad my vocabulary impresses you but I don't use a thesaurus.

Yes you do…. and don’t get all wet, it doesn’t impress me one iota. You can fluff it up with multi-syllabic pretentiousness but it doesn’t change the fact that your arguments are circular and stupid.

No you're saying Jack Gibson knows better than every coach who uses a round the corner kicker.

He knew best in his era.

FFS :lol:

Yes. Why do you think Fox, Hewson, Ridge, Halligan, Jason Taylor and others make money teaching people how to do it. If it was easy - your mum could teach you. Now - as with anything you couold learn yourself - if information is available or you have time for trial and error. But its far more efficient to be taught - thats why we have teachers for most things.

Who the f**k is Hewson again? Wasn’t he the leader of the Libs for a time?
Giteau taught himself. Gibson didn’t need it… blah blah.. on and on and on...

Good God you rave on. Have you seen a psychiatrist lately?

With pleasure.

You know what you bring to this forum, seriously?

Nothing. Apart from another Union idiot to hang sh*t on in the off season.

 

[Loudstrat]

Yes, who are these nuffies? Fox? You mean COX - Mitchell (He was a Kiwi union convert)

 

[ANTiLAG]

The f*ck off and let the debate flourish!

You say the synthetic balls make no difference, Ricky Stuart says otherwise. In fact, the pioneer toe pokers who used the old leather balls (Conlon, Crooks, Eden, et-al) had many attempts further than today's lot will ever attempt

since when was Ricky Stuart a goal kicker of any note? He played twice as many seasons of first grade than goals he kicked. Yeah - he's an authority. I'll go with Paul Thorburn and Bob Dwyer on that one - union people - but at least they know how to kick goals and coach world cup wins.

RL was not televised in 1908 - are you saying that it is all a lie because you cannot see footage of it? FFS, people who witness events and write newspaper articles to be published the next morning are not historians. :lol:

No they're league journalists. The people who's opinion you deeply trust Loudstrat. Be consistent. Well try to be Dumb dumb. Televised now? Well happened to no movie cameras? Glad to see you've admitted you were wrong. I'm proud of you dumb dumb.

When was the last goal landed from halfway in the NRL, Mr Distance. Because the secret to the swing of a round the corner kicker is very similar to that of a 7 iron shot - it's all about guiding the ball and connecting with the instep (wider contact point for accuracy). Wider contact point does not equal velocity. Power distribution relies on the velocity of the object as it collides with another, not surface area. There is greater velocity with a front on kick - the speed of the run adds to the speed of the foot, and the nee is designed primarily to allow the lower leg to move back and fourth. The sideways kick is from the hip, which has more restriction of movement.

1 Benji's field goal 2 Kicking from the hip restricts movement? OMG - you're on crack. It allows for weight transference. You have totally omitted mass from from your collision. Did you miss physics class? Greater velocity in Toe poke? Have you ever place kicked a ball? I think not. ROund the corner kickers run and kick though the ball. They swing the leg back further, then forward with their bodies angled back - the leg comes through with greater velocity in a round the corner action. This is all made possible because of the use of the hip. If a toe poker swung his leg through with as much velocity as a round the corner kicker they'd fall flat on their back. You dumb dumb. A 7 iron? Round the corner is like using ANY GLOF club include a driver. As opposed to the toe poke which is more like swinging a a golf club turned 90 degrees (so the face of the clubs points 90 degrees west to the ball) and swinging straight back and parrallel from your leg with no hip movement so that both feet face due north. Christ dumb dumb. You just do not get it.

Rounders for accuracy (why there must be at least 99.9% of NRL kicks are from within 35m of the try line - actually probably within 25m), wheere in the toe poking days the best kickers could land points from anywhere in the half.

Lets just ignore all other rugbies and leagues where people regularly take kicks from beyond halfway, shall we? Except there is still Benji's drop goal. Unless you come up with crack pot story that drop kicking is some what different to round the corner kicking. Would love to hear that one.

If there is an advantage for round the corner kickers, its from wide angled kicks. Toe pokers cannot curve a ball, and wide angled kicks were a lottery. Which is where your sun-god worship of round the corner kickers is flawed, because the real jaw dropping incident that got people enthused with the skill of the round corner style was a bloke you ignioce (yes a Yawnion convert but not a Kiwi). Michael O'Connors sideline Origin goal.

I am aware of the arc - I mentioned it on page 3. I am glad you are getting upto speed.

And yes - you have the intelligence of a 10 year old conceived in a highly mutating environment.

My degrees beg to differ. What are yours? Let me guess - you went to the 'university of life'. Well I don't think you're graduating any time soon.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Everlastin - I am not going to cut n paste for you - its getting really tiresome and you merely respond with juvenile name calling and accusation of my syllogisms being circular. They're not. Yours are. You seem to struggle with logic and being consistent. Sorry I use words you cannot understand but I do not use a thesaurus. But hey - you can spell 'ouija'. You have 'short man syndrome' Everlast - you do not seem to handle your assertions being analysed with critical thinking. I take it you never got to university.

I will just say the following things

1 A spelling mistake is still a mistake. look up the defintion of mistake.
2 Round the corner kicking is better - it gives the team with a round the corner an adavantage over teams with toe pokers.
3 Toe poking is extinct because it is crap. It is just not consistently accurate enough.
4 Toe poking is a crap technique compared to round the corner.
5 Top round the corner kickers make the top toe pokers look crap. As shown by relative goal kicking accuracy.
6 Goal kicking stats have improved immensely since round the corner kickers came in en masse from union
7 Goal kickers have benefitted immensely in gaining more accruracy from the services of union goal kicking coaches such as Daryl Halligan teaching them such as A Johns (60-80%, Thurston, L Burt) etc. Everlast - You say goal kicking round the corner is easy - are you more talented than A Johns with an oval ball?
8 Round the corner is better for eras and all equipment. What was your darling John Gray kicking with... a tee and a synthetic? See - thats you guys being inconsistent. Willie Horne kicked the game off in the 1940's with unprecedented accuracy - but clearly did not teach anyone else how to do it well. Ridge, Botica, Crossan and Halligan and co have clearly changed all that.
9 There is no advantage of long range distance to toe poking. Loudstrat already concedes this now as distance travelled highlights inaccuracy.
10 You're an idiot to argue other wise on any of these points.
11 John Gray didn't cause a lasting revolution - people still toe poked after his career was done and dusted
12 The Kiwi Union converts of the 90's kicked a cumulative career average of 78.2% based on stats.rleague.com (Crossan, Botica, Ridge and Halligan). Three of them became successful kicking coaches. Halligan, by far the most successful coach, has coached most the top goal kickers of the recent era. Round the corner kicking is not easy - but with coaching - has dramatically increased the standards of goal kicking today.
13 At the very least I contributed this thread.

Its that simple. We're making progress as you two are shifting your arguments. Shame jack Gibsons didn't get a round the corner kicker. You Parra boys seemed to have your nerve touched there. You'll get over it. Even the greatest coaches make oversights. Noones perfect, not even Big Jack. Alternatively, as I suggested, he just couldn't find a round the corner kicking coach such as an 80's Halligan at that time, or a decent round the corner goal kicker for his team. But look on the bright side, L Burt has had Halligan for many years now to teach him how to do a good job. Parra aint being disadvantaged.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Everlastin - I am not going to cut n paste for you

No worries then, I'll keep it going.

- its getting really tiresome and you merely respond with juvenile name calling and accusation of my syllogisms being circular.

Said it before and with someone as simple as you, I have to say it again.

If you're prepared to throw insults, be prepared to get them back you soft, dirt-eating, window-licking blowhard punt monkey.

They're not. Yours are.

No, mine aren’t circular, mine are repetitive. They’re repetitive simply because you don’t seem to understand them. They’re as simple and A, B, C but you don’t understand them because when you see something that disagrees with your particular “philosophy” your eyes roll back in your head, your eyebrows join in the middle and you drop 60 IQ points.

What you need to do is stop replying at that moment.

You seem to struggle with logic and being consistent.

I don’t struggle with your posts, arguments or philosophy period.

Sorry I use words you cannot understand but I do not use a thesaurus.

You would have us believe that someone whose brain put the word “widgee” in a post, doesn’t need the assistance of a dictionary or thesaurus?

Actually, come to think of it, a dictionary wouldn’t have been much help to you, you were 8 letters of the alphabet away from the first letter of the word you were trying to use.

No one said they didn’t understand the words you’re using champ. It was pointed out though that using them in an online forum made you a pretentious wanker.

Which you most certainly are.

But hey - you can spell 'ouija'.

Without a dictionary or thesaurus.

You have 'short man syndrome' Everlast - you do not seem to handle your assertions being analysed with critical thinking. I take it you never got to university.

Yeah, no.

You’re the one pushing the barrow of Kiwi Union players whilst claiming not be a Union fan…but also letting us know that you actually follow Union.

A coloured, deaf, wheelchair bound midget would see you and think “Jesus, look at the chip on the shoulder that guy has”.

As for being University educated, if University education allows one to come up with the word “widgee” give me a year 12 at any Public High School education any day..

If it makes you feel better about yourself, I get to sit down occasionally with University educated people. They’re called my underlings. To be fair though, there aren’t many I’ve employed over the years, they tend to be as useful in my industry as rocking horse manure is on a garden for at least 10 years after they’ve left Uni.

Let me guess, you’re an engineer? lol

will just say the following things

I’m sure they’re tedious, repetitive, circular and bollocks, but go ahead…

A spelling mistake is still a mistake. look up the defintion of mistake.

Definition.

No, you are a mistake, your spelling of the word ouija as widgee was not a spelling mistake.

Round the corner kicking is better - it gives the team with a round the corner an adavantage over teams with toe pokers.

It’s better now.

Toe poking is extinct because it is crap. It is just not consistently accurate enough.

It’s not extinct.

Why do you keep saying that?

It’s not the norm but it still exists. Stop watching the tele and go out and see a few matches under NRL level.

Toe poking is a crap technique compared to round the corner.

No, it isn’t.

Top round the corner kickers make the top toe pokers look crap. As shown by relative goal kicking accuracy.

They aren’t kicking under the same circumstances. Irrelevant nonsense.

Goal kicking stats have improved immensely since round the corner kickers came in en masse from union

As have, grounds, balls, tees etc etc etc

Goal kickers have benefitted immensely in gaining more accruracy from the services of union goal kicking coaches such as Daryl Halligan teaching them such as A Johns (60-80%, Thurston, L Burt) etc. Everlast - You say goal kicking round the corner is easy - are you more talented than A Johns with an oval ball?

No, I’m not.

But I can kick around the corner and I didn’t have to do much learning to be able to do it reasonably well. A Soccer background was about all I had to go with.

Around the corner kicking is not something that needs 4 years of University education for a player to be proficient at it.

Round the corner is better for eras and all equipment. What was your darling John Gray kicking with... a tee and a synthetic? See - thats you guys being inconsistent. Willie Horne kicked the game off in the 1940's with unprecedented accuracy - but clearly did not teach anyone else how to do it well. Ridge, Botica, Crossan and Halligan and co have clearly changed all that.

No.

There is a 50 odd year gap between Horne and the sheep shaggers you named.

Why is that?

Any idea?

There is no advantage of long range distance to toe poking. Loudstrat already concedes this now as distance travelled highlights inaccuracy.

Your argument with Loudstrat is your argument with Loudstrat.

You're an idiot to argue other wise on any of these points.

Coming from you, that’s actually quite a compliment. If you thought I was anything but, I’d be depressed.

John Gray didn't cause a lasting revolution - people still toe poked after his career was done and dusted

He started the revolution. The blokes who you seem to want to treat you as their own personal catamite had little to do with the change from toe pokers to around the corner kickers. They had something to do with raising the standard of around the corner kicking but bugger all to do with the change from one to the other.

The Kiwi Union converts of the 90's kicked a cumulative career average of 78.2% based on stats.rleague.com (Crossan, Botica, Ridge and Halligan). Three of them became successful kicking coaches. Halligan, by far the most successful coach, has coached most the top goal kickers of the recent era. Round the corner kicking is not easy - but with coaching - has dramatically increased the standards of goal kicking today.

Again, are they all the Kiwi Union converts, or just the one’s you want to include. You change your parameters constantly. It’s Kiwi Union converts, then it’s Union converts, now we’re back to Kiwi Union converts.

Then you’re choosy with who you pick. You’ll happily throw up a 5 gamers like Botica, but you’ll ignore Craig Innes, John Timu and Marc Ellis. You’ll also ignore the other Union converts as though they weren’t actually converts.

Why do you keep mentioning Botica, he played 5 games FFS. :lol:

At the very least I contributed this thread.

Yes you did. But not in the manner you think. Derp.

Its that simple. We're making progress as you two are shifting your arguments. Shame jack Gibsons didn't get a round the corner kicker. You Parra boys seemed to have your nerve touched there. You'll get over it. Even the greatest coaches make oversights. Noones perfect, not even Big Jack. Alternatively, as I suggested, he just couldn't find a round the corner kicking coach such as an 80's Halligan at that time, or a decent round the corner goal kicker for his team. But look on the bright side, L Burt has had Halligan for many years now to teach him how to do a good job. Parra aint being disadvantaged.

Firstly, I’m not a “Parra boy”.

Secondly, you talk rubbish. You talk it enough to convince yourself but who else have you convinced?

Even in that last paragraph. It’s not just Jack Gibson, there were 11 other first grade coaches during Jack’s years, not many of them bothered to “find” an around the corner kicker either.

So they were wrong or you’re wrong.

Guess which of those two options is the sane one?

Then there’s how you ignore holes in your arguments that are brought to your attention, such as your penchant for allowing kickers of your choice to be judged on 50 kicks in a season, but Cronin can be judged on 30 kicks in one season. A season where he not only was partially blind, but a season where he took a premiership home with him.

You’re a cult leader preaching to a congregation of 1, yourself. Keep posting and I’ll keep putting sh*t on you and your fanciful theories. Low-grade ozhawk.