Top ten things Rugby owes to league

[ANTiLAG]

Go on, tell me how many games of Rugby League Botica played in the NSWRL.
Wait, I'll do it.
The answer is 5.
You really think I know about everyone who played 5 games in the NSWRL/NRL?
Do you know about them all?

I followed the union covnerts with interest. yes. Botica racked up quite a career with Wigan - so followed him with more interest. Very useful player.

So, an argument on the merits of Mick Cronin as a goalkicker requires the study of every post in this thread?

It does if you want to know what we're arguing about. Of course.

If you say so....

I do say so.

Yeah, nice analogy, not.

Yeah you got the point, not.

Senior Cricket was played in different cities in Australia, Cronin's whole career in the NSWRL was played primarily on Sydney grounds and nearly 1/2 those games were played at Cumberland Oval.

and your point is... So unlike leg spin bowling in step kicking did not be learnt? Is that your point? Else you have missed the analogy completely.

And you miss again with you "people have to learn to do" it crap. Are you suggesting that it took 40 years to teach players to kick at goal with the instep?

Are you suggesting that people do not need to learn how to kick goals accurately? You can kick at 80% can you? I doubt it. You're as dumb as dumb dumb. Clearly it took a long time for goal kickers to universally get good and learn to kick with the instep. Yes.

Your earlier post stating "I identify that Willie Horne was the first accurate round the corner kicker. He only played league, and was a superstar in the 1940's. "would suggest you are.

Suggest I am what? Saying it took a long time for in step kicking to spread and for others to learn how to do it? Yes I am.

As against the thoery that with the Leather balls and grounds that were in use in the NSWRL at the time, the old toe-poker was just as, if not more, accurate. The fact that they didn't change en-masse to round the corner seems to be detrimental to your argument.

But they did from 1990 - 2000. THATS THE WHOLE POINT. You need to read the rest of the posts. In union they did from the late 70's and in league in the in 1990s.

You keep saying it but you've proved nothing other than that you have little understanding of the conditions senior Rugby League in Sydney was played in prior to 1985.

You've just shown how ridiculous it is to enter into a thread and start talking without reading the whole thread. You've missed the context of a lot of points.

Tell me, did you ever see a game in Sydney prior to 1985 live?

Yes

There is no point to miss. You completely ignore what you're replying to.

Are you suggesting that coaches wouldn't get their goalkickers taught to kick around the corner in the NSW from 1950-80 odd because it was too hard?

Yes

All talk. you yabber on but commonsense is something you seem to be unfamiliar with.

If Jack Gibson thought he could get even a slight advantage over other teams he would have done it in a heartbeat. Hell, throw in any coach for that matter. They would be remiss in their duty if they didn't based on your thoughts. You seem to be again suggesting that over the course of a career, goalkickers from certain eras weren't able to be taught how to kick a ball around the corner.

Utter bollocks.

By the way, the bloke who actually started the ball rolling in the NSWRL as far as I know was John Gray.

So you know Jack Gibson perfectly well and know what he would have done? What are you - in contact with him by Widgie Board? Mate teh evolution came after his time at Parra and he didn't implement it. Simple as that.

If toe hacking was better - they'd still do it in rugby league and union. They don't. It's not. All your arguments fail for all conditions, all balls, all surfaces and all tees. Round the corner is better that is why it is universal now. Its called evolution. The players got better, learnt a new skill and it became necessary to be widespread. Simple Darwinian theory.

Stop making a fool of yourself. Noone is going back to toe hacking. Round the corner started with leather balls, with sand on crap grounds and worked throughout NZ union in the 80's and late 70's. Union beat league to it being widespread. Simple as that. And league then imported the skill via buying players and coaches.

After Ridge came Halligan, Schuster, Crossan and a truck load of kicking coaches from union.

Now if you don't like discussing union - look to the very first post in here.... and get an idea of what the topic for dicsussion was...

 

[ANTiLAG]

Over 30m out, from anywhere on the field, I would back Cronin, Simms, Eadie, Gearin any day over the round the corner hacks. The reaspon? Distance.

The most stupid thing I have read in this thread. And there has been a lot of stupid things said. When i say "dumb dumb" - I am referring to you Loudstrat. This could be your dumbest statement yet. And theres been many.

I love how you concede toe hackers like Cronin miss in front

at #96 Crows career. The man was mortal. He would often miss sitters from in front. The crowds would laugh because the bloke who was carving a reputation as the best ever would duff the simple ones.

- but somehow they get more accurate from long range... Ridiculous.

 

[ANTiLAG]

RE Cronin
OK Sweetheart.


Re Crossan

Ridge goals per game: 3.909
Cronin goals per game: 4.02
Looks like the ordinary to crap kicker wins again.

Got any more excuses for Ridge? Remember he played in the 7m and 10m rule eras, meaning easier field position. Cronin played his entire career in the 5m rule.

And as EA said, not with a twinkie kicking tee and a nice manicured ground. With sand and mud.

Unlike Ridge, Cronin was second string kicker to nobody.



Not bad with a detached retina and blurred vision in one eye. Kicking winning goals in a GF when one eye is as useless as you (totally f*cked)

Whats your reply? Ridge was blindfolded? Had artificial limbs? :lol:

Ridge kicking at over 80% kicked at a greater percentage thus he clearly attempted less goals. El Masri was second string to Halligan - let me guess he's not as good as Terry Matterson too - cos Terry wasn't a second string goal kicker. Or maybe Mal Meninga is better than El Masri. Does it not occur to you when you are arguing something irrelevant? Are your critical thinking skills that void?

My reply is the same as before - Cronin kicking more goals at a far lower percentage does not make him a better goal kicker dumb dumb. So you're saying that Ridge at over 80% was not as good goal kicker as Cronin at 50%? Is that what you're saying? With a higher accuracy percentage clearly Ridge attempted less goals to have a lower average of kicked goals per game. Seriously? Dumb dumb. Do they not teach you fractions or stats when you were at school. Ignore my previous post - this is your dumbest idea yet. I cannot fathom that I actually had to answer that question for you. Again.

Ridge was using sand when he came to the NSWRL - as was Halligan. They all had to play games in the mud.

Hey Loudstrat - if toe hacking was so good - why DOES NOONE USE IT ANYMORE?

Kicking tees? Nah - it was only Mal and Terry Matterson doing the toe hack when everyone else was using sand....

Like the dinosaurs - toe hacking became extinct. It couldn't evolve and died in the new environment of NSWRL which demanded higher accuracy from goal kickers. Its that simple.

 

[Teddyboy]

Well Thomas, you are a troll.

You are one rung lower than Teddyboy.

Never forget that.

Can a troll love Rugby League.

 

[ANTiLAG]

I am absolutely speechless that Loudstrat and Ever Lovin AntiChrist think that toe hacking is a more accurate form of kicking than round the corner. For anything:

leather balls, sand not tees, distance, mud, bad surface.....

It just reveals total stupity and confirms a lack of ever kicking a ball in the park.

Toe hacking is crap: you've taken this as a personal attack on your beloved Cronin. Its not personal to him, Mal, Terry Matterson or any other toe hacker who was at their trade. Its a crap technique. The best at a crap technique still has a crap technique. Round the corner kicking is a far more controlled, far more accurate, and capable of getting far more distance than toe poking.

The proof - heres the world record:

Loudstrat and Ever Lostin - the world record penatly kick is 64 metres 1986 - leather ball - no tee - no sand. The kicker Paul Thorburn merely makes a divet and stands the ball in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTtTbcfwCMA

Probably had a few more metres to go.

Yeah - round the corner kicker too.

Toe hacking = distance. Pfft. Maybe if you're 8 and you don't know what you're doing. This is how union were rolling in the 80's and you remember how Cronin was doing at the same time.... the gap certainly has closed these days... thanks Ridge & co.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

...

Keep clinging to a picture squatfool.
Alas, your grasp on history is nowhere near as tight as that which you have on your c**k.

The irony is, that due to your intellectual deficiencies, you would have been one of the first slaughtered by the nazis via their T4 euthanasia program.

A suggestion squatforbrains - if they ever let you into France don't mention your views on the Vichy Government to any of the locals. They don't take to kindly to nazi sympathisers.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

I followed the union covnerts with interest. yes. Botica racked up quite a career with Wigan - so followed him with more interest. Very useful player.

Of course you followed the Union converts with interest, you're a Union fan.

Ask me how interested I am in how ex-Rugby League players are going in Union?

Either way, that doesn't change the fact that in Rugby League terms, in Australia, Botica was and still is, a nobody. Yet you seem to think that knowledge of someone who played less first grade games in Australia than Lincoln Raudonikis is critical to confirming one's knowledge on Rugby League.

It isn't.

It does if you want to know what we're arguing about. Of course.

No, it isn't.

You think Cronin was a sh*t goalkicker and I don't.

That's pretty much it. Your posts that I've read haven't changed my opinion. What chance do you think your posts that I haven't read have of changing it?

I do say so.

Yeah, we've established that.

Look up the word "rhetorical".

Yeah you got the point, not.
and your point is... So unlike leg spin bowling in step kicking did not be learnt? Is that your point? Else you have missed the analogy completely.

It was, is and always will be, a stupid analogy.

Instep kicking was alive and well in another code of Football well before it was introduced into the Rugby codes.

Was Leg spin bowling alive and well in another code of bat 'n' ball sports?

Was it being perfected in Baseball for many years before Cricket found it?

If instep kicking was an advantage, then it would have been introduced well before it was. The combination of better grounds and synthetic balls was the the reason it ended up the de rigeur.

Are you suggesting that people do not need to learn how to kick goals accurately? You can kick at 80% can you? I doubt it. You're as dumb as dumb dumb. Clearly it took a long time for goal kickers to universally get good and learn to kick with the instep. Yes.

errrrr, no. You're barking mad.

It wasn't taught because it wasn't needed.

In the conditions with the grounds and balls used at the time, it just simply wasn't a better option.

Toe-poking or around the corner both need/needed to be taught, but you seem to be suggesting that a toe poker can be taught much quicker than around the corner.

I'll say it again, if a coach like Jack Gibson thought that an around the corner kicker would have given his team an advantage then he would have had more than one of his players learning it so it could be game-used.

Suggest I am what? Saying it took a long time for in step kicking to spread and for others to learn how to do it? Yes I am.

So, it took 40 years to learn it.

We live and learn.

But they did from 1990 - 2000. THATS THE WHOLE POINT. You need to read the rest of the posts. In union they did from the late 70's and in league in the in 1990s.

And we come to the point.

From 1990 to 2000.

FFS, what is wrong with you?

How many goals did Mick Cronin kick after 1990?

You're trying to compare eras you dozy git. Rugby League in Australia in 1990's was a very different beast compared to Rugby League in the late 1970's early 1980s.

The grounds were much, much better, the equipment was better... christ, it's like trying to give a history lesson to a stick.

You've just shown how ridiculous it is to enter into a thread and start talking without reading the whole thread. You've missed the context of a lot of points.

No, I haven't.

You're talking bollocks. I don't need to back-track to know that you did it earlier in the thread.

Yes

Congratulations. Feel free to elaborate.

I'll ask a question to make it easier for you.

Have you been a fan of Rugby League in Australia since 1968 and have you seen hundreds of games live at every ground in Sydney from that time?

Yes

lol

It was too hard. :?

Let me get this straight.

Jack Gibson and Co didn't get their kickers taught to kick around the corner because it was too hard.

:lol:

So you know Jack Gibson perfectly well and know what he would have done?

Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of Jack Gibson would know that he was an innovator. If he believed that an around the corner kicker would have given his team an advantage, he'd have been all over it.

What are you - in contact with him by Widgie Board? Mate teh evolution came after his time at Parra and he didn't implement it. Simple as that.

errr, what the f**k is a widgie board you simpleton. Are you trying to say Ouija board?

He didn't need it, that's why he didn't use it. I'm pretty sure Jack was aware of instep kicking considering his time spent in the US with NFL teams.

If he didn't implement it, it's because he felt he didn't need it. But feel free to crack open the "widgie" board and ask him yourself you disrespectful toad.

If toe hacking was better - they'd still do it in rugby league and union. They don't. It's not. All your arguments fail for all conditions, all balls, all surfaces and all tees. Round the corner is better that is why it is universal now. Its called evolution. The players got better, learnt a new skill and it became necessary to be widespread. Simple Darwinian theory.

Toe hacking?

You spend too much time reading wikipedia.

The evolution of the game from semi-pro to pro was the main reason why the kickers changed. We went from leather balls to synthetic, from grounds that resembled either the carpark or a peat bog to manicured lawns, from mounds of dirt to kicking tees etc etc etc.

You seem to think your argument is tighter than a fly's arsehole. It's isn't, it's looser than Roseanne Barr's pink taco. The problem is that you actually believe what you're saying but you haven't realised that you're a congential idiot.

Stop making a fool of yourself.

You first.

Noone is going back to toe hacking.

Who said they were?

Who said we needed to go back to it you terminal Derek.

Round the corner started with leather balls, with sand on crap grounds and worked throughout NZ union in the 80's and late 70's.

Right....

And John Gray played his first game in the NSWRL in 1975.

Argument f**ked.

Union beat league to it being widespread. Simple as that. And league then imported the skill via buying players and coaches.

Yeah, no.

Why don't you list the NZ Union coaches that coached in the NSWRL.

After Ridge came Halligan, Schuster, Crossan and a truck load of kicking coaches from union.

And how many of them pre-date John Gray?

I'll give you a hint, it's a number between 1 and -1.

Coaches again... lol

Go on, name the ex-NZ Union coaches who coached in the NSWRL.

Now if you don't like discussing union - look to the very first post in here.... and get an idea of what the topic for dicsussion was...

I love trashing....oops, discussing Union.

And by the way, the bold thing..... lmao

Dork.

f**king Union trolls.....

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

I am absolutely speechless that Loudstrat and Ever Lovin AntiChrist think that toe hacking is a more accurate form of kicking than round the corner. For anything:

leather balls, sand not tees, distance, mud, bad surface.....

It just reveals total stupity and confirms a lack of ever kicking a ball in the park.

Toe hacking is crap: you've taken this as a personal attack on your beloved Cronin. Its not personal to him, Mal, Terry Matterson or any other toe hacker who was at their trade. Its a crap technique. The best at a crap technique still has a crap technique. Round the corner kicking is a far more controlled, far more accurate, and capable of getting far more distance than toe poking.

The proof - heres the world record:

Loudstrat and Ever Lostin - the world record penatly kick is 64 metres 1986 - leather ball - no tee - no sand. The kicker Paul Thorburn merely makes a divet and stands the ball in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTtTbcfwCMA

Probably had a few more metres to go.

Yeah - round the corner kicker too.

Toe hacking = distance. Pfft. Maybe if you're 8 and you don't know what you're doing. This is how union were rolling in the 80's and you remember how Cronin was doing at the same time.... the gap certainly has closed these days... thanks Ridge & co.

*yawn*

Is there a rule against posting gay porn youtube videos here?

Mods!!

I'd post a youtube of Longbottom hitting a few from well inside his own half if they were available.

How Union was rolling? :lol:

You're f**ked in the head. You're going on like you have the copyright to around the corner kicking.

You're a pissant Union troll whose arguments have more holes in them than a 10 kilo block of Swiss cheese.

 

[Thomas]

Well Thomas, you are a troll.

You are one rung lower than Teddyboy.

Never forget that.

Haven't you got a handful of Cialis to shelve?

 

[ANTiLAG]

Everlivin ANtiChrist you are clearly uneducated and unreasonable. It is very difficult to reason with something who is not logical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWBZjWRGvvg

This is the world record 64 metre place kick with no sand, no kicking tee using a leather ball, the conditions are hardly manicured.

Round the corner is better in all conditions. Not some. All. All grounds, tees or no tees, synthetic or not synthetic balls, mud or no mud. THere is never an instance where toe poking is better. Loudstrat tried to say distance. But its not. Union started rtound the corner in the 70's and by the early 80's it was everywhere. In 1990 - Ridge was the first accurate round the corner kicker - the next year there were several/ THe union invasion of goal kicking was witnessed by most.

Toe poking is crap for all conditions. Simple as that really. Union worked that out in the 70's and league just took a little longer, too. Then followed the union's lead.

 

[Squatdog]

Squatflog thinking Vichy France was a nice place to visit and totally free - like the inmates at Belsen worked a 40 hour week and has a f*cking health plan, rich Squatnazi?

WTF are you talking about???

This moron claimed that the Nazis were responsible for the banning of League (lol!) and that Vichy France was occupied in 1940.

Belson was in Niedersachsen, not Vichy France. Holy sh*t.

1. Squatdog is an idiot with very little idea about history. Mate just because the "picture" said so doesn't make it fact you fool.

So what you're saying is that Vichy France actually WAS occupied by Nazi Germany in 1940 and all the historical documents are lying?

2. Union is boring and slowly dying in this country. Remember after their world cup was here and Union was supposedly "taking over" and would be the #1 sport in Australian in no time. Well look at them now, the rules they've created themselves is killing the sport. They are barely holding off soccer for the #4 sport in the country.

Matter of opinion. I follow both.

Union is CRUSHING League outside Australia, the north of England and the worst parts of New Zealand. Literally half the 'Welsh' side in last years Super League were Australian ring-ins. The London Broncos (now Harlequins) have always been a team of ring-ins.

Keep clinging to a picture squatfool.
Alas, your grasp on history is nowhere near as tight as that which you have on your c**k.

The irony is, that due to your intellectual deficiencies, you would have been one of the first slaughtered by the nazis via their T4 euthanasia program.

A suggestion squatforbrains - if they ever let you into France don't mention your views on the Vichy Government to any of the locals. They don't take to kindly to nazi sympathisers.

Are you still clinging to your lies about Nazi Germany occupying Vichy France in 1940 and Adolph Hitler (lol!) personally supervising the regime, when it was actually autonomous apart from matters related to the Axis war effort? I posted a nice, big map with bright colours because it's the only thing you would understand.

You can fill it in with a crayon if you like.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Haven't you got a handful of Cialis to shelve?

Aren't you supposed to be funny?

When does it kick-in on here?

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Everlivin ANtiChrist you are clearly uneducated and unreasonable. It is very difficult to reason with something who is not logical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWBZjWRGvvg

This is the world record 64 metre place kick with no sand, no kicking tee using a leather ball, the conditions are hardly manicured.

Round the corner is better in all conditions. Not some. All. All grounds, tees or no tees, synthetic or not synthetic balls, mud or no mud. THere is never an instance where toe poking is better. Loudstrat tried to say distance. But its not. Union started rtound the corner in the 70's and by the early 80's it was everywhere. In 1990 - Ridge was the first accurate round the corner kicker - the next year there were several/ THe union invasion of goal kicking was witnessed by most.

Toe poking is crap for all conditions. Simple as that really. Union worked that out in the 70's and league just took a little longer, too. Then followed the union's lead.

There is little logic in your posts. Your posts consist mainly of pro-Union bullsh*t. What's your nic at PR?

Did you really think that people here would just simply bow to your "knowledge" when your knowledge is half-arsed?

Not once have you even acknowledged John Gray, yet he pre-dates every single Union convert you mentioned.

You ignore the fact that around the corner kicking pre-dates most of your argument but wasn't take-up en masse until after Rugby League in Australia turned the corner and went from a suburban competition played with leather balls on bog ground to the start of what we have now.

You also haven't named the Kiwi Union coaches that teams in the NSWRL apparently signed.

You just simply ignore what you cannot answer.

And to top it all off you called it a widgee board. :lol:

You were that stupid that you used wikipedia for the term "toe-hacking" but you didn't have the intellectual capacity to work out how to find the spelling of the word "Ouija". Nice.

One thing in your favour though, in that one sentence with the word widgee, you were funnier than Thomas has ever been... and he's a comedian apparently...

 

[Thomas]

Aren't you supposed to be funny?

When does it kick-in on here?

After 9pm. It gets a little blue. There's a 2 drink minimum.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

After 9pm. It gets a little blue. There's a 2 drink minimum.

Based on your posts I'd say 9pm may be right, but the year would be something like 2037.

I'll probably miss it. Knowing my luck I'll snuff it 20 minutes before you're funny.

 

[Squatdog]

As for goalkicking...

Top kicking percentage of first-string kickers 1992 Winfield Cup:

Daryl Halligan 81% 70 goals total
Eion Crossan 78% 76 goals total
Matthew Ridge 75% 50 goals total
John Schuster 74% 68 goals total

I see a pattern emerging!

Got any more excuses for Ridge? Remember he played in the 7m and 10m rule eras, meaning easier field position. Cronin played his entire career in the 5m rule.

What???

Ridge started playing in 1990 when it was still under the 5 metres rule.

 

[Thomas]

Based on your posts I'd say 9pm may be right, but the year would be something like 2037.

I'll probably miss it. Knowing my luck I'll snuff it 20 minutes before you're funny.

It's not my fault you have a dicky heart.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Keep posting squatforbrains, every single post just reinforces your stupidity, ignorance and lack of comprehension and understanding.


Adolf (that's how its spelt sh*t for brains, not Adolph) would be proud.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Everlovin Antilogic:

Why would I discuss John Gray when I discussed Willie Horne? The 40's were before the 70's, mate. John Gray did not cause a lasting change in the way goal kicks were executed. But Ridge and the converts did. By the time Ridge retired - everyone was round the corner? When he entered - well that just wsn't the case. The change happened in the 90's not the 70's. Cronin, Menegina, Matterson were all toe poking their way through the 80's and the latter two into the 90's.

I think you mean goal kicking coaches.... that were signed.... you mean like Botica? Apprently he doesn't count. Maybe you meant like Allan Hewson? But now you'll just give a rant of how you do not care for union idenitities.

Ouija - I could not be bothered grabbing a dictionary. Thanks for correcting myspelling but what I am most impressed with - you comprehended the gist. This is possibly a first for you. Well done.

But I never went to wikipedia to search for toe-hacking, toe-poking or crap goalkicking technique.

This thread and conversing with you does not require my needing to find a dictionary and check the spelling of words because you're simply not worth it.

Toe hacking is a terrbily crap technique that did not survive evolution. It is embarrassing for rugby league that it took so long to evolve.

All toe poking = crap. Even the best toe pokers were crap. Round the corner kickers are advanced in every manner in every scenario. Distance, accuracy, tee, sand, just grass divet, leather ball, synthetic ball. Thats why round the corner kicking remains alive and well at all levels, at all grounds, and also the reason why toe poking is extinct. Hope that little bit of logical syllogism was not too much for you. But feel free to correct my spelling and grammar. Just leave the thinking to me sunshine - you can proof read my posts for me and grab me a coffee too whilst you're at it.

 

[RL1908]

The revolution in both rugby codes in Aust was well under way long before Ridge arrived.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=RDdWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=YegDAAAAIBAJ&dq=rugby%20corner%20kickers&pg=5943%2C2792594