Top ten things Rugby owes to league

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Penalty goals are important in both codes. Being worth 3 points makes each goal more valuable in union. Based on that, you'd expect to see a lot more field goals in union than you do. Someone will come along and shoot the lights out before that rule is changed.

The point is that they (penalty goals)are a large part of the scoring in Union, they aren't in Rugby League.

You'll see some Aussie sides go all match without kicking one - but that wont be for lack of trying.

You wouldn't want to be hanging by your nuts wating for one of those times to come around.

They fall into the 10-15% basket.

 

[ANTiLAG]

I think in union when you watch the All Blacks put a 100 on Samoa - there is generally a penalty kick or two done by both teams.

Lol.

 

[RL1908]

Im not asserting that ball design, kicking tees and profesisonalism has not MARGINALLY increased goal kicking percentages. I'm saying that revolutionary increase in percentages occurred in union in the late 70's early 80's before any of those things (tee, synthetic balls, professionalism) had occurred. Im saying it was round the corner kicking in an arc.

League had this revolution in the 90's. To support my argument I say look at the union kickers when they transferred over. I know you do not like this argument rl1908 as it is contrary to yours but it is supported by the stats. League despite being professional was slow to catch on to better, more accurate and widespread goal kicking methods. Ridge, Halligan, Botica, Crossan, Schuster & co (union kicking coaches) caused a mini revolution that spelt the end for the 'toe poke' and round the corner straight shooter with the rugby league ball. So ball differences between union and league is a redundant argument.

Kicking tees in rugby union were not introduced for accuracy but to stop time wasting. With development later they may have assisted accuracy - but when first implemented they dropped accuracy. Kickers at the time preferred the sand castle method.

I still don't know what the big concern here is...

The innovation I will give the palm to RU for is Grant Fox and the way he changed the method of round-the-corner kicking & placement of the angle of the ball for a higher strike rate, but not that he introduced or led the charge towards round-the-corner kicking...that was already underway.

There was a generation of Aust boys who were in their early teens mid 1980s coming through into both codes with round-the-corner (3 out of 4 according to the SMH in early 1984) - yes those RU players you named came into RL in the early 1990s, but that was after the "revolution" had already begun in the juniors in both codes...so it was coming anyway.

Re tees - any method that provides a constant launch platform (ie a tee) has to remove the variation provided by something variable like sand or sawdust - it also makes it easier to be taking more repeat kicks in training. You also get to take that same training tool into the game, also giving you that consistency. That has to produce a higher strike rate and/or make it easier.

El Masri can do it blindfolded - you could only do that if there were no variables in the position and shape of the ball, and you had a well-trained routine. Not saying it is easy, but it is relatively easier than it was.

A goal counts when the ball goes between the posts and above the bar at any point in that rectangle area - ok, so a tee & training may not improve my conversion rate at all if I'm a skilled goal kicker, but with a tee & training I'm probably getting more in the centre of that rectangle than before - wouldn't show up in my strike rate, but I'm still getting better results (not that it scores you any more points).

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

I think in union when you watch the All Blacks put a 100 on Samoa - there is generally a penalty kick or two done by both teams.

Lol.

Ryan Cross would well remember his first game back in Union. It was for a World 15 v South Africa. South Africa won, they scored 30 points.

Via 10 penalty goals.

 

[manoj p]

This suit is black, pause, not!

Feel free to add to the exhaustive list of three items so far.

 

[RedVee]

But don't fully discount the synthetic balls. Not that they improved the round the corner guys, that ship was already launched. But they did reduce the toe pokers accuracy through the float they encountered. Witness Meninga and Walford being equal top scorers one year, and then over the next couple of years barely kicked a goal (exaggeration).

 

[Mr_Ugly]

Didn't Puig Aubert use a 'round the corner' style? Not old enough to have seen him kick, but have seen the stills series where he kicks one from the corner post and seem to recall this being said about him.

Also 1908 - I have some vague recollection of you(?) posting that union used to have paly-the-ball type rucks once upon a time (I know that sounds odd - maybe I was drunk?).

 

[Loudstrat]

The point I am making is that union had already high accuracy of kicking WIDESPREAD before kicking tees, before synthetic balls and before professional rugby.

Accuracy has come light years from the round the corner style as opposed to the Cronin Meninga hack. Clearly the difference int he balls did not matter because Ridge and Halligan were clearly light years ahead of other NSWRL kickers.

The percentage increase subsequent to that time would be minimal.

Carter may be better than Ridge, Halligan, Fox or Deans, but not by as much as Fox, Deans, Ridge and Halligan are to Cronin and Meninga.

Over 30m out, from anywhere on the field, I would back Cronin, Simms, Eadie, Gearin any day over the round the corner hacks. The reaspon? Distance. We saw the flaw in rounders via Josh Dugan. Themoves are so rehearsed that they basically produce the same kick, from a different part of the field. The best toe pokers could kick a ball from anywhere from halfway - and in a League era when tries were harder to come by goal kicking from halfway was a massive weapon.

I remember John Gray kicking round the corner in the 1970's.

I also DO NOT remember the League world being abuzz with how good Union kickers were in the early 1990's. The League world back then was obsessed with the quick tap - Brisbane won 2 comps off it, and I will never forget the semi when they played Norths in 1994. Close game, Langer kept taking the tap, and Taylor kept taking the goals. Norths won by a point.

Funny also that you claim League was looking at Union players like Ridge for his kicking when he apparently didn't kick goals until he played for Manly!

Funny still how you also ignore the Union identity that - if any - had the REAL impact on goal kicking in League: Michael O'Connor.

Debate over that while I quietly add Cronin and Meninga to Offiah on your list of hacks and nuffies.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Over 30m out, from anywhere on the field, I would back Cronin, Simms, Eadie, Gearin any day over the round the corner hacks. The reaspon? Distance. We saw the flaw in rounders via Josh Dugan. Themoves are so rehearsed that they basically produce the same kick, from a different part of the field. The best toe pokers could kick a ball from anywhere from halfway - and in a League era when tries were harder to come by goal kicking from halfway was a massive weapon.

The idiot enters with his normal idiocy. Cronin kicking at 45% and you back him anywhere from over 30 metres? You're a clown. Think before you type. Even you're not that stupid are you? Cronin couldn't fart on Wilkinson, Ridge, Hastings, Botica, Carter, Porta, Bootha from 50 metres or 5 metres. What rubbish you speak. If you were even remotely right - teams would have a second kicker in their side for long kicks toe poke style - espicially union teams - John Eales for the wallabies would have poked. But he did not. You're not right. You're wrong. You're so wrong you are a dumb dumb.

To even come with your nonsense leads me to believe you may never have a kicked a ball. You do realise drop goal kickers use the inside of the boot like a round the corner goal kicker? You do realise even they can kick the ball 60 metres.... Benji this year planted a droppie on his side of halfway. Ridiculous you'd vouch for the the toe poke. Never heard such garbage. And I'm sorry - round the corner kickers properly using an arc do not do the same kick each time. Its quite different depending what side of the field they, where they are and what the wind is doing. I'm not sure dumb dumb has ever kicked a ball

I remember John Gray kicking round the corner in the 1970's.

Good for you. I identified Willie Horne round the corner kicking in the 1940's in my previous posts. Whats your point dumb dumb?

I also DO NOT remember the League world being abuzz with how good Union kickers were in the early 1990's.

I do. A lot of other posters do too. Ridge does. Halligan does. Graham Lowe does. Frano Botica does. But we'll take your word over theirs eh. LOL

Funny also that you claim League was looking at Union players like Ridge for his kicking when he apparently didn't kick goals until he played for Manly!

Not my claim dumb dumb. I claim Ridge started the successful and lasting revolution - after Ridge's goal kikcing sensation NSWRL clubs signed Schuster, Crossan and Halligan for their goal kikcing. Got that dumb dumb? Now everyone round the corner kicks with an arc. Kicking percentages have notably climbed from 1990-2000. Now Halligan did not bring much else and Crossan was a dead set liability only useful for his goal kicking. I almost feel bad for you here, you must have thought that you had a point. I bet you were excited - I can tell by your use of exclamation marks - but you merely miscomprehended. Poor Dumb Dumb.

But even if I was claiming what you say I was claiming 'dumb dumb' then I'd still be right. Graham Lowe in his biography said he signed Ridge in part for his goal icking - but Ridge was not to know this. How could Ridge know that Lowe knew he could kick as he was not kicking goals for his union teams? Lowe says Ridge was not told of this because Lowe fears Ridge would have asked for more money. Thus, it was kept a secret from Ridge. League talent scouts found out what union players got upto at training and had heard Ridge was a useful goal kicker. Now why I did not make this part of my claim is that it would be insulting to Ridge to say he was signed for his goal kicking when it was arguably not the primary thrust of Manly wanting him. Just part of it. But Halligan, Crossan, Schuster was far more goal kicking based. Crossan - ugh. Got that dumb dumb? YOU FAIL. So even that claim fails dumb dumb. Guess you're not as knowledgeable as you think you are.

Funny still how you also ignore the Union identity that - if any - had the REAL impact on goal kicking in League: Michael O'Connor.

At 65% O' COnnor was hardly setting the wolrd on fire dumb dumb. O'Connor was dropped as goal kicker in preference for Ridge dumb dumb. It was Ridge who set the kicking world on fire in 1990 at 80%. Okay dumb dumb?

Debate over that while I quietly add Cronin and Meninga to Offiah on your list of hacks and nuffies.

Only said Offiah was a nuffie dumb dumb. Not Mengina and Cronin. Me saying Menginga and Cronin sh*te goal kickers ("toe hackers" or "toe pokers") is not the same as saying they are nuffie players. Got that dumb dumb? And I don't see why you'd mention Offiah in here, now whilst there is probably enough space up your rectum for him to run - we know he was only good in space - try n keep topical on goal kickers or things union owes league dumb dumb.

Gee - you keep adding contribution to what an idiot you are. I from now on will call you "dumb dumb".

Now why don't you go back and play with your almanacks and let the grown ups debate.

As sweet as Benji's effort was if you want to see real distance - go youtube.com Francois Steyn - place kick 61 metres inHamilton, 59 metres at Kings Park (sea level) - drop goal 57+ metres, wide out, and could have been another 5+ metres back (against auckland). No fluke either - did a 58 metres against the cheetahs. And he is no "toe poker".

 

[Jankuloski]

Awesome article! Good points and well written as well

 

[RL1908]

Didn't Puig Aubert use a 'round the corner' style? Not old enough to have seen him kick, but have seen the stills series where he kicks one from the corner post and seem to recall this being said about him.

Aubert had a very haphazard walk back and run in - I guess he wouldn't fit any category. However, more than a few Aussie players from his time reckoned they saw him kick a ball from the corner post through the goal. No one mentioned him as an early round-the-corner kicker though in Test matches - only that Willie Horne was.

And if you see the pics of Aubert when kicking, he is often very high off the ground, suggesting he must have been running hard at the ball (which Messenger used to do) front on, rather than steering/guiding the ball the way round-the-corner kicks require (one foot has to be planted on the ground to kick soccer-style).

See pics re the above at:
http://www.eraofthebiff.com/p-106.html

Also 1908 - I have some vague recollection of you(?) posting that union used to have paly-the-ball type rucks once upon a time (I know that sounds odd - maybe I was drunk?).

There's a myraid of items if you want to count what RL had from RU in 1895. But, no you weren't drunk: The Real Rugby Code?

Before RL came on in 1908, the NSW rugby team were called the Blues, and the Queensland team the Maroons. The Waratahs name came in the 1920s, and the Reds really took over as the Qld RU name in the 1970s.
http://rugbyaustralis.wordpress.com/2010/11/26/rugby-jerseys/

 

[RL1908]

.

Halligan, Taylor and Cleary and other high success rate kickers were a bonus to their team, but the team didn't change the way they played. Souths & Cronulla were way down the table when they went for Croissan.

My recollection of Ridge's debut v Cronulla was taking 40m penalty shots instead of going for touch - it was fun for one afternoon, and I think Manly were struggling with a misfiring backline at the time, but Ridge's arrival didn't change the way Manly or RL was subsequently played, not until the mid 1990s, and that was marginal & arguably just common sense... In 1995-6 with Ridge/Manly would invariably take the 2 points to go from 6 points to 8 points, but that was it - Manly had a powerful team to go with that, and once they got 8 points up plenty of opponents dropped their bundle.

 

[Squatdog]

The assignment was simple enough: compose a list of things union has borrowed, adopted or even downright stolen from league - but don't mention Sonny Bill Williams.

Not the greatest start, that first sentence, then. Still, given union's predilection for co-opting league's core facets - albeit usually a few decades down the track - there's really no need to bring SBW (oh no, not again) into it at all. The fact is, if you love modern rugby union then you've got league to thank for it.

And if you hate it, you also know where to point the finger.

ONE: Professionalism

Okay, so a lot of the best rugby players got paid regardless of shammatuerism, but technically rugby was a couple of years behind league when it came to seeing the merits of letting hard-working athletes scoff a bit of the financial pie their efforts created.

A couple, of course, being 100 (or 99 years and 364 days, to be precise). In fairness to rugby, it has embraced professionalism rather enthusiastically.


So much so that Tana Umaga could still earn a mountain of French moolah at an age when most men are worrying about their prostate, and even Kees Meuws can still earn a decent living.

TWO: Doing away with rucking

In 1906, league boffins recognised something had to be done about the tackled ball situation.

Standing practice was for every tackle to end in a "scrum", which was really just a loosely controlled fight for the ball. So in came the play-the-ball and, barring an amendment or six down the ages, it was pretty much job done. Union, by contrast, has wrung its hands over the issue for over a century.

Oddly enough, while the end of defenders striking at the ball in 1996 signalled the final evolution of league's play-the-ball, union types of a certain era consider the end of dignified slipper use in modern rugby as the reason the tackle area is still a dog's breakfast.

THREE: Interchange

The genesis of the modern interchange dates back to 1963, when league first allowed injury replacements.

The system was hardly straight-forward, with up to two changes permitted in the first half only. The rule was later tweaked to allow second-half replacements, but only if the player coming on had played at least half of a lower-grade game. By 1981, four tactical substitutions were permitted in league. Union was again quick to catch on the benefits of such a system, introducing substitutions just 15 years later.

Union is yet to officially bring in an interchange system, with teams relying instead on the blood bin and fake injuries to props to rotate players.

Too soon for them , then, one can only assume.

FOUR: Turning scrums into a joke

Actually, they've always been a joke in both codes. But league at least gave up on contested scrums* long ago.

While having recently copied ancient league rules such as holding scrums no closer than 5m from the goal line (1931), not allowing front rows to pack until told to by the ref (1948) making defensive lines stand 5m from scrum (1951), union has bizarrely persisted in making the scrum a central facet of the game.

While that's great news for those who get off watching endless collapses and resets interspersed with large men picking grass out of their studs and moaning at each other, it's doubtful the wider sporting public is fully appreciative of the inherent beauty of a bungled set piece.

* Except for the smart arses at the Sydney Roosters

FIVE: Video ref

As usual league was the first rugby code to jump into the murky waters of television officiating, with the video ref introduced for the 1996 Superleague world nines.

A traditional timeline for union to follow suit would see the concept due to be introduced for the 2086 World Cup.

Remarkably, it only took four years (and a career of Paddy O'Brien) for union to see the value in the system.

Union being union, they gave the idea a posher name (television match official) and let legally blind Australians like George Ayoub do the job.

Actually, the first use of the TMO in international union saw Steve Walsh award a try to Todd Blackadder against Tonga at Albany in 2000.

SIX: The sin bin

Had it not been for the 1981 introduction of the sin bin, world sport might well have been denied the glorious sight of Kevin Tamati and Greg Dowling settling their differences in one of league's all-time great stinks.

Four years after the 10-minute sit down was introduced, Tamati and Dowling showcased its weaknesses (namely that there's not much point in binning players with just 55 seconds remaining in a match, and just maybe they shouldn't depart together).

When it finally came 14 years later, union's adoption of yellow cards also had teething problems.

Mark Cooksley was the first international player to be yellow carded (for punching a Frenchman in Nancy), but it later transpired the rule change hadn't been ratified by the IRB.

As an aside, soccer referee Ken Ashton created the system of yellow and red cards while sitting at traffic lights after attending the 1966 World Cup quarter-final between England and Argentina after an Argentinian couldn't understand referee speak for "take a walk pal".

SEVEN: Meaningful competition

One of the main reasons for the great rugby schism of 1895 was the desire of northern English clubs to play for something more tangible than the joy of putting their heads between rows of other men's buttocks.

In 1892/93 the leading clubs in the north formed leagues.

They ran a longer season, trained players more thoroughly and even introduced special diets such as peas, pie and chips.

That was all too much for the posh knobs of the south, for whom the participation was reward enough. In the space of a couple years league had more cups than Augusta National. The most famous of these, the Challenge Cup, was first played for in 1896.

England's RFU resisted the temptation to put up silverware for 76 years, with a league structure finally introduced in 1972.

The Ranfurly Shield has bounced around New Zealand rugby since 1904 but, let's be honest, teams can go decades without even playing for it.

Meaningful rugby competition began here with the first national championship in 1976.

EIGHT: Sucking at World Cups

The All Blacks may have taken getting blown out of World Cups in horrible fashion to new levels since 1991, but compared to the - albeit World and now Four Nations champion - Kiwis, the union boys are babes in the woods.

The Kiwis didn't even make the final of the first World Cup in 1954 (Great Britain beat France).

In fact, the Kiwis had been knocked out of eight World Cups without reaching a final before the All Blacks started following league's losing example.

The Kiwis and All Blacks might have one title each, but the Kiwis are way out in front in terms of blowouts. The scoreboard of World Cup failures reads: Kiwis 12 All Blacks 5. Suck on that, union.

NINE: France

That's right, France was once a predominantly league territory that was downright stolen by the 15-man game.

For the most part the French wanted no truck with British amateur ideals, instead embracing the professional code wholeheartedly.

Then came the Nazis. Not the RFU. The real Nazis. After the defeat of France in 1940, the French Rugby Union worked with the German-collaborating Vichy regime to re-establish the dominance of their sport.

Union's amateur ethos appealed to the Nazis' view of sport purity. League was banned and all assets of the Rugby League and its clubs were handed over to the union.They were never returned.

TEN: Skill, tactics and (boo hoo) players

Where to start? The banana kick, cross kicks for wingers, rush defence, flat backlines, second-man plays, dummy runners.

League might have been viewed as an inferior sport played by mercenary ruffians, but that never stopped union coaches poaching bits of the game they secretly regarded as rather clever.

Not that union didn't give back, with the traditional payoff an influx of talented by not overly cashed-up players.

These days the talent flow has reversed, with plenty of leaguies - such as, er, Craig Gower (pictured), opting for the big pay checks and easy living union offers.

As one prominent convert said privately on the day he switched: "You get twice the pay and train half as much. It's great."

By Steve Deane | Email Steve

Let's see:

1- No

2- No

3- Yes

4- No

5- Yes

6- Possibly (not sure on this one)

7- No. Meaningful competition means more than three international sides in the entire world that aren't a complete joke

8- No. The League 'World Cup' is a total farce and individual events are barely remembered

9- No

10- Yes, but the exchange went both ways.

 

[jim_57]

Let's see:

1- No

2- No

3- Yes

4- No

5- Yes

6- Possibly (not sure on this one)

7- No. Meaningful competition means more than three international sides in the entire world that aren't a complete joke

8- No. The League 'World Cup' is a total farce and individual events are barely remembered

9- No

10- Yes, but the exchange went both ways.

9 - No? Really? Perhaps you could tell us what really happened.

:roll:

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Let's see:

1- No

2- No

3- Yes

4- No

5- Yes

6- Possibly (not sure on this one)

7- No. Meaningful competition means more than three international sides in the entire world that aren't a complete joke

8- No. The League 'World Cup' is a total farce and individual events are barely remembered

9- No

10- Yes, but the exchange went both ways.

You can argue the other points if you like but 9 is irrefutable - the French Rugby Union colluded with the Nazi backed Vichy government to ban league and strip it of all its assets. League was crushed and never allowed to recover over the ensuing decades.

 

[Loudstrat]

The idiot enters with his normal idiocy. Cronin kicking at 45% and you back him anywhere from over 30 metres? You're a clown. Think before you type. Even you're not that stupid are you? Cronin couldn't fart on Wilkinson, Ridge, Hastings, Botica, Carter, Porta, Bootha from 50 metres or 5 metres. What rubbish you speak. If you were even remotely right - teams would have a second kicker in their side for long kicks toe poke style - espicially union teams - John Eales for the wallabies would have poked. But he did not. You're not right. You're wrong. You're so wrong you are a dumb dumb.

Fair dinkum you could fit a watermelon up your arse quite easily because you head is friggin up there so often.

Cronin was not a 45% kicker. You stated before (at ONE STAGE) - he was actually low 70's over his career.

But back then you were doing an impression of a giant doughnut, obviously you missed Crows career. The man was mortal. He would often miss sitters from in front. The crowds would laugh because the bloke who was carving a reputation as the best ever would duff the simple ones.

Then he'd place one on a sand pile at Belmore's halfway line and it would sail high over the black dot and wouldn't bounce until it hit the train tracks.

Cronin would spit out the round the corner short range geese from outside 35m. And if Youtube is sufficiently updated - check out the conversion attempt for Brett Kennys first try in the 1981 GF. From the sideline, across a gale, blowing in three directions across the path of the ball due to the configuration of stands at the SCG, with Rex Mossop claiming that it was an impossible kick. Nailed - straight over the dot.

To even come with your nonsense leads me to believe you may never have a kicked a ball. You do realise drop goal kickers use the inside of the boot like a round the corner goal kicker? You do realise even they can kick the ball 60 metres.... Benji this year planted a droppie on his side of halfway. Ridiculous you'd vouch for the the toe poke. Never heard such garbage. And I'm sorry - round the corner kickers properly using an arc do not do the same kick each time. Its quite different depending what side of the field they, where they are and what the wind is doing. I'm not sure dumb dumb has ever kicked a ball

I'm sure you have never had a root. You can drop kick a ball straight on, and Benjis was more straight on than the normal Soward side boot attempt. Like the AFL used to do when dropped goals were the flavour in their sport.

Anyway, Ridge and Halligan were never prolific droppers, so I don't know why it is mentioned in your wankfest over sheepshagging kickers.

Good for you. I identified Willie Horne round the corner kicking in the 1940's in my previous posts. Whats your point dumb dumb?

HAs a big efect on the next generation kickers didn't it. Hammerton, Barnes, Churchill etc - toepokers. John Gray actually started the revolution in Sydney, with the likes of Mike Eden carrying on.

And Ridget came in 1990 - where you reckon the "roumd the corner revolution started". Jason Taylor made his first grade debut that year, having been a round the corner kicker in Wests lower grades - inluding Commonwealth bank Cp) for years. Pre 1990, if Ridge was only kicking at Union training sessions, how do you explain the fact that it was Ridge and not Taylor revolutionising the game? Or Ross Conlon?

I do. A lot of other posters do too. Ridge does. Halligan does. Graham Lowe does. Frano Botica does. But we'll take your word over theirs eh. LOL

I'm talking about the intelligent side of the Tasman - The "League World" does not consist of Carlaw Park and the nearest pub. In Australia, I can assure you he big tacticak talking point's were both revolving around Allan Langer, being 1) His quick tap, and 2) His tackling style.

BTW, Didn't know Ridge, Halligan, Lowe and Botica were LU posters. Let me guess - Lowe would have to be Effnic, Halligan Moffo?

Not my claim dumb dumb. I claim Ridge started the successful and lasting revolution - after Ridge's goal kikcing sensation NSWRL clubs signed Schuster, Crossan and Halligan for their goal kikcing. Got that dumb dumb? Now everyone round the corner kicks with an arc. Kicking percentages have notably climbed from 1990-2000. Now Halligan did not bring much else and Crossan was a dead set liability only useful for his goal kicking. I almost feel bad for you here, you must have thought that you had a point. I bet you were excited - I can tell by your use of exclamation marks - but you merely miscomprehended. Poor Dumb Dumb.

Forgetting Ross Conlon and Snozz O'Connor merely sugests your fanatacism about Kiwi goal kicking purchases by sad assed clubs, but siggesting that Eion Crossan was part of a RUgby LEague revolution :lol::lol:

Antiflog Brain Update: Offiah, Cronin and Meninga were sh*thouse, Eion Crossan an all time great. You are dumb dumb as a f*cking box of hammers!!!!

But even if I was claiming what you say I was claiming 'dumb dumb' then I'd still be right. Graham Lowe in his biography said he signed Ridge in part for his goal icking - but Ridge was not to know this. How could Ridge know that Lowe knew he could kick as he was not kicking goals for his union teams? Lowe says Ridge was not told of this because Lowe fears Ridge would have asked for more money. Thus, it was kept a secret from Ridge. League talent scouts found out what union players got upto at training and had heard Ridge was a useful goal kicker.

Thanks for the predictable dumb-as-all-sh*t claim. Ridge was getting more at Manly than in Yawnion - so manly could have said "Take it or leave it. You are a good goalkicker but need a sh*t load of fitness and skills training - sign here".

Now why I did not make this part of my claim is that it would be insulting to Ridge to say he was signed for his goal kicking when it was arguably not the primary thrust of Manly wanting him.

Don't want to insult Ridge? But happy to sink the slipper into Cronin. Says a lot about who you bend over for.

Just part of it. But Halligan, Crossan, Schuster was far more goal kicking based. Crossan - ugh. Got that dumb dumb? YOU FAIL. So even that claim fails dumb dumb. Guess you're not as knowledgeable as you think you are.

How does any of that gibberish shed any light on Matthew Ridge's kicking life pre Manly? But at least you are admitting that your claim is failing - fail to see how you f*cking up makes me look silly. Rest assured it doesn't make you look stupid. Just confirms it.

And reinforcing the obviousness of your stupidity: Schuster averaged 30 goals a season for Newcastle = uh uh uh *splodge*. Cronin averaged 85 goals per season for Parra = Crap

At 65% O' COnnor was hardly setting the wolrd on fire dumb dumb. O'Connor was dropped as goal kicker in preference for Ridge dumb dumb. It was Ridge who set the kicking world on fire in 1990 at 80%. Okay dumb dumb?

Ridge after 7 season at manly - 477 goals - average 68.14 per season
Cronin after 9 seasons at Parra - 865 goals - average 91.1 per season

Ridge started at Manly when he was 22. Cronin was 26.

NB - Cronin actually played at parra for 10 seasons, but played in only 2 first grade games in 1986.

Point of interest - Jason Taylor. At Wests, 4 seasons, 225 goals, = 56 goals per season. Ridge - who revolutionised the game, kicked one goal every 2 weeks more than a rookie. At Norths, 563 from 6 seasons = 93.3 goals per season, or 1/3 BETTER than Ridge. And 2001? 116 goals, or 48 more than Ridge. Or 2 goals per game.

Only said Offiah was a nuffie dumb dumb. Not Mengina and Cronin. Me saying Menginga and Cronin sh*te goal kickers ("toe hackers" or "toe pokers") is not the same as saying they are nuffie players. Got that dumb dumb? And I don't see why you'd mention Offiah in here, now whilst there is probably enough space up your rectum for him to run - we know he was only good in space - try n keep topical on goal kickers or things union owes league dumb dumb.

Gee - you keep adding contribution to what an idiot you are. I from now on will call you "dumb dumb".

Now why don't you go back and play with your almanacks and let the grown ups debate.

OK - you admit Cronin was a sh*t goal kicker - yet managed 23 more goals more season than Ridge. Why is that turdbreath? Why did the man whose goal kicking was so fantastic that he revolutionised League, was roughly ONE GOAL PER MATCH WORSE THAN A SH*T KICKER?

So Ridge, therefore, was SUB-SH*T?????? He would have had to improve dramatically to be sh*t?

Kaching!!!! Hear that baby? That's the sound of you being OWNED!!! :lol:

 

[ANTiLAG]

Fair dinkum you could fit a watermelon up your arse quite easily because you head is friggin up there so often.

Cronin was not a 45% kicker. You stated before (at ONE STAGE) - he was actually low 70's over his career.

I never stated that. Paste it. SHow me. You cannot. Why? Because I never said it. Dumb Dumb, you're not fooling anyone with lies. I said one season when Parra won the comp Cronin's goal kicking for the year was 45%. Christ his 1986 goal kicking is a massive 50% according to stats.rleague.com...

But back then you were doing an impression of a giant doughnut, obviously you missed Crows career. The man was mortal. He would often miss sitters from in front. The crowds would laugh because the bloke who was carving a reputation as the best ever would duff the simple ones. Then he'd place one on a sand pile at Belmore's halfway line and it wouldn't bounce until it hit the train tracks. Cronin would spit out the round the corner short range geese from outside 35m. And if Youtube is sufficiently updated - check out the conversion attempt for Brett Kennys first try in the 1981 GF. From the sideline, across a gale, blowing in three directions across the path of the ball due to the configuration of stands at the SCG, with Rex Mossop claiming that it was an impossible kick. Nailed - straight over the dot.

As good as this one? I doubt it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpKsDsCJhv8

Outside 35m? http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcx5QoFM4-Y&feature=related Check out this round the corner goose - 60 metre place kick - no worries.

In fact - this round the corner goose can do a 60 metre drop goal that would have gone 75mtr - check this out

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DkPOO2tF0o

FLukes you say? Heres a better one... into the wind...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrQ_IcKKdFc&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrQ_IcKKdFc&feature=related

This is my favourite...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvYUnUeAbsY&feature=related

In case you missed it in the tribute...

3 inside his own half....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LZDXWBVRYE&feature=related

Here's another 59 metre place kick from the round the corner goose... with about 10 metres to spare...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvno_0Y6zzo&feature=related

I'm sure you have never had a root. You can drop kick a ball straight on, and Benjis was more straight on than the normal Soward side boot attempt. Like the AFL used to do when dropped goals were the flavour in their sport.

Benji used the inside of boot - like every drop kicker does.

Anyway, Ridge and Halligan were never prolific droppers, so I don't know why it is mentioned in your wankfest over sheepshagging kickers.

If you ever drop kicked a ball accurately you'd know you have to use the inside of your boot, must like a round the corner uses the inside of the boot as opposed to the toe to kick. The point I was making is YOU CAN GET DISTANCE WITH THE INSIDE OF YOUR BOOT.

HAs a big efect on the next generation kickers didn't it. Hammerton, Barnes, Churchill etc - toepokers. John Gray actually started the revolution in Sydney, with the likes of Mike Eden carrying on.
I'm talking about the intelligent side of the Tasman - The "League World" does not consist of Carlaw Park and the nearest pub. In Australia, I can assure you he big tacticak talking point's were both revolving around Allan Langer, being 1) His quick tap, and 2) His tackling style.

Langers leg trip tackle style was more 1992.

BTW, Didn't know Ridge, Halligan, Lowe and Botica were LU posters. Let me guess - Lowe would have to be Effnic, Halligan Moffo?

Errr - whats this got to do with anything?

Forgetting Ross Conlon and Snozz O'Connor merely sugests your fanatacism about Kiwi goal kicking purchases by sad assed clubs, but siggesting that Eion Crossan was part of a RUgby LEague revolution :lol::lol:Antiflog Brain Update: Offiah, Cronin and Meninga were sh*thouse, Eion Crossan an all time great. You are dumb dumb as a f*cking box of hammers!!!!

Dumb dumb "Eion Crossan was a dead set liability and only useful for his goal kicking" and "Ugh Eion Crossan" does not mean "all time great". In fact it means the guy was cr*p. Its means AWFUL. Now I think you should really go back to primary school and learn to read and comprehend. Because you are clearly needing remedial help.

I said Cronin and Meninga were not good goal kickers. FFS Meninga is always listed in my Qld Origin sides. Cronin and Meninga great players, great centres, ordinary to crap goal kickers. Got it? Clear? Last time Dumb dumb? Its getting boring.

Thanks for the predictable dumb-as-all-sh*t claim. Ridge was getting more at Manly than in Yawnion - so manly could have said "Take it or leave it. You are a good goalkicker but need a sh*t load of fitness and skills training - sign here".

And if he had left it? Clearly you do not recruit players or negotiate in your line of work, whatever that is dumb dumb.

Don't want to insult Ridge? But happy to sink the slipper into Cronin. Says a lot about who you bend over for.

Ridge is a far superior goal kicker to Cronin. I'm sure Mick would agree.

How does any of that gibberish shed any light on Matthew Ridge's kicking life pre Manly? But at least you are admitting that your claim is failing - fail to see how you f*cking up makes me look silly. Rest assured it doesn't make you look stupid. Just confirms it.

Halligan, Schuster, Crossan and co were union players signed for their goal kicking post Ridge initial debut season stellar success dumb dumb. You missed the point. Again.

And reinforcing the obviousness of your stupidity: Schuster averaged 30 goals a season for Newcastle = uh uh uh *splodge*. Cronin averaged 85 goals per season for Parra = Crap

At what percentages dumb dumb? Stats.rleague.com states Schuster kicked goals at over 70%....

Ridge after 7 season at manly - 477 goals - average 68.14 per season
Cronin after 9 seasons at Parra - 865 goals - average 91.1 per season

This ignores two valuabe things Dumb Dumb.

1 First it ignores the games played per season. A mistake you made with Schuster who missed a lot of games through injury. Clearly you're not so dumb to think missed games through injury influences how good someone is at goal kicking? Are you? When Ridge came to Manly there was a top 5 and only 22 rounds. This meant the maximum number of games any club could play was 25 depending on finals results - 24 if they missed a week of the finals. The most games Ridge ever played in a season was 23. 1995, Manly won the GF they played 25 games. Cronin hit 28 games for a season a couple of times and another season hit 26.

2 MOST IMPORTANTLY: At what percentages dumb dumb?

Ridge started at Manly when he was 22. Cronin was 26.

NB - Cronin actually played at parra for 10 seasons, but played in only 2 first grade games in 1986.

Cronin played 7 first grade games in 1986 Dumb Dumb.

He played round 20 2/6
round 21 3/5
round 22 2/2
round 23 3/5
round 24 1/2
major Semi 2/6
GF 2/4

Thats a whopping high 50% Goal kick rate.

OK - you admit Cronin was a sh*t goal kicker - yet managed 23 more goals more season than Ridge. Why is that turdbreath?

Turdbreath? How old are you dumb dumb?

Well the answer is F*cking obvious to most;

RIDGE HAD LESS SHOTS AT GOAL!

One of the major reasons for this is thatRidge played less games per season.

Why did the man whose goal kicking was so fantastic that he revolutionised League, was roughly ONE GOAL PER MATCH WORSE THAN A SH*T KICKER?

BECAUSE HE HAD LESS SHOTS AT GOAL!

So Ridge, therefore, was SUB-SH*T?????? He would have had to improve dramatically to be sh*t?

You're seriously trying to say someone who kicked at 50% in 1986 is better than someone who at his worst kicked 70% for a season, and has a career average of 80%? Seriously.

Kaching!!!! Hear that baby? That's the sound of you being OWNED!!! :lol:

80%>70%>50%

No Dumb dumb. Thats just a noise in your own head. It is now clear to me that you failed English and MATHS at school.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Fair dinkum you could fit a watermelon up your arse quite easily because you head is friggin up there so often.

Cronin was not a 45% kicker. You stated before (at ONE STAGE) - he was actually low 70's over his career.

I never stated that. Paste it. SHow me. You cannot. Why? Because I never said it. Dumb Dumb, you're not fooling anyone with lies. I said one season when Parra won the comp Cronin's goal kicking for the year was 45%. Christ his 1986 goal kicking is a massive 50% according to stats.rleague.com... Now even assuming it is 70% (which I do not say it was), Ridge is over 80%...

But back then you were doing an impression of a giant doughnut, obviously you missed Crows career. The man was mortal. He would often miss sitters from in front. The crowds would laugh because the bloke who was carving a reputation as the best ever would duff the simple ones. Then he'd place one on a sand pile at Belmore's halfway line and it wouldn't bounce until it hit the train tracks. Cronin would spit out the round the corner short range geese from outside 35m. And if Youtube is sufficiently updated - check out the conversion attempt for Brett Kennys first try in the 1981 GF. From the sideline, across a gale, blowing in three directions across the path of the ball due to the configuration of stands at the SCG, with Rex Mossop claiming that it was an impossible kick. Nailed - straight over the dot.

As good as this one? I doubt it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpKsDsCJhv8

"Round the corner short range geese"? Did you not youtube Francois Steyn like I told you too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LZDXWBVRYE&feature=related - 61 metre and 2 others insdie halfway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvno_0Y6zzo - 59 metre from a round the corner short distance goose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AN46GPFDAc&feature=related - Luke McALlister does a 63 metre place kick from a 'round the corner no distance goose'.

Now I've watched Ridge and Halligan nail many from halfway - but Steyn and McAlister have massive boots. Porta and Bootha were huge too.

Just for fun - check these Steyn Droppies out - makes Marshall look less than amateur...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DkPOO2tF0o&feature=related - 60 metre out drop goal with about 20+ metres to spare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvYUnUeAbsY&feature=related - 55 metres plus the wide angle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rImrI7SYtfY&feature=related - similar position BUT INTO THE WIND.

Not bad kicks for round the corner short geese hacks eh?

Bootha and Porta were better round the corner geese.

I'm sure you have never had a root. You can drop kick a ball straight on, and Benjis was more straight on than the normal Soward side boot attempt. Like the AFL used to do when dropped goals were the flavour in their sport.

Benji used the inside of boot - like every drop kicker does. Its either a 'toe poke' straight kick or a soccer kick. There is no grey area. You would know this if you had ever kicked a ball.

Anyway, Ridge and Halligan were never prolific droppers, so I don't know why it is mentioned in your wankfest over sheepshagging kickers.

If you ever drop kicked a ball accurately you'd know you have to use the inside of your boot, must like a round the corner uses the inside of the boot as opposed to the toe to kick. The point I was making is YOU CAN GET DISTANCE WITH THE INSIDE OF YOUR BOOT.

HAs a big efect on the next generation kickers didn't it. Hammerton, Barnes, Churchill etc - toepokers. John Gray actually started the revolution in Sydney, with the likes of Mike Eden carrying on.
I'm talking about the intelligent side of the Tasman - The "League World" does not consist of Carlaw Park and the nearest pub. In Australia, I can assure you he big tacticak talking point's were both revolving around Allan Langer, being 1) His quick tap, and 2) His tackling style.

Langers leg trip tackle style was more 1992.

BTW, Didn't know Ridge, Halligan, Lowe and Botica were LU posters. Let me guess - Lowe would have to be Effnic, Halligan Moffo?

Errr - whats this got to do with anything?

Forgetting Ross Conlon and Snozz O'Connor merely sugests your fanatacism about Kiwi goal kicking purchases by sad assed clubs, but siggesting that Eion Crossan was part of a RUgby LEague revolution :lol::lol:Antiflog Brain Update: Offiah, Cronin and Meninga were sh*thouse, Eion Crossan an all time great. You are dumb dumb as a f*cking box of hammers!!!!

Dumb dumb "Eion Crossan was a dead set liability and only useful for his goal kicking" and "Ugh Eion Crossan" does not mean "all time great". In fact it means the guy was cr*p. Its means AWFUL. Now I think you should really go back to primary school and learn to read and comprehend. Because you are clearly needing remedial help.

I said Cronin and Meninga were not good goal kickers. FFS Meninga is always listed in my Qld Origin sides. Cronin and Meninga great players, great centres, ordinary to crap goal kickers. Got it? Clear? Last time Dumb dumb? Its getting boring.

Thanks for the predictable dumb-as-all-sh*t claim. Ridge was getting more at Manly than in Yawnion - so manly could have said "Take it or leave it. You are a good goalkicker but need a sh*t load of fitness and skills training - sign here".

And if he had left it and walked away? Manly then missout out ona star player they both wanted and needed according to Lowe's biography. Clearly you do not recruit players or even negotiate in your line of work - whatever that is, dumb dumb.

Don't want to insult Ridge? But happy to sink the slipper into Cronin. Says a lot about who you bend over for.

Ridge is a far superior goal kicker to Cronin. I'm sure Mick would agree.

How does any of that gibberish shed any light on Matthew Ridge's kicking life pre Manly? But at least you are admitting that your claim is failing - fail to see how you f*cking up makes me look silly. Rest assured it doesn't make you look stupid. Just confirms it.

Halligan, Schuster, Crossan and co were union players signed for their goal kicking post Ridge initial debut season stellar success dumb dumb. You missed the point. Again.

And reinforcing the obviousness of your stupidity: Schuster averaged 30 goals a season for Newcastle = uh uh uh *splodge*. Cronin averaged 85 goals per season for Parra = Crap

At what percentages dumb dumb? Stats.rleague.com states Schuster kicked goals at over 70%.... Schuster clearly missed a lot of games for Newcastle through injury when he only played 40 something games in three seasons....

Ridge after 7 season at manly - 477 goals - average 68.14 per season
Cronin after 9 seasons at Parra - 865 goals - average 91.1 per season

This ignores two valuabe things Dumb Dumb.

1 First it ignores the games played per season. A mistake you made with Schuster who missed a lot of games through injury. Clearly you're not so dumb to think missed games through injury influences how good someone is at goal kicking? Are you? When Ridge came to Manly there was a top 5 and only 22 rounds. This meant the maximum number of games any club could play was 25 depending on finals results - 24 if they missed a week of the finals. The most games Ridge ever played in a season was 23. 1995, Manly won the GF they played 25 games. Cronin hit 28 games for a season a couple of times and another season hit 26.

2 MOST IMPORTANTLY: At what percentages dumb dumb?

Ridge started at Manly when he was 22. Cronin was 26.

NB - Cronin actually played at parra for 10 seasons, but played in only 2 first grade games in 1986.

Cronin played 7 first grade games in 1986 Dumb Dumb.

He played round 20 2/6
round 21 3/5
round 22 2/2
round 23 3/5
round 24 1/2
major Semi 2/6
GF 2/4

Thats a whopping high 50% Goal kick rate.

OK - you admit Cronin was a sh*t goal kicker - yet managed 23 more goals more season than Ridge. Why is that turdbreath?

Turdbreath? How old are you dumb dumb?

Well the answer is F*cking obvious to most;

RIDGE HAD LESS SHOTS AT GOAL!

One of the major reasons for this is thatRidge played less games per season.

Why did the man whose goal kicking was so fantastic that he revolutionised League, was roughly ONE GOAL PER MATCH WORSE THAN A SH*T KICKER?

BECAUSE HE HAD LESS SHOTS AT GOAL!

So Ridge, therefore, was SUB-SH*T?????? He would have had to improve dramatically to be sh*t?

You're seriously trying to say someone who kicked at 50% in 1986 is better than someone who at his worst kicked 70% for a season, and has a career average of 80%? Seriously.

Kaching!!!! Hear that baby? That's the sound of you being OWNED!!! :lol:

80%>70%>50%

No Dumb dumb. Thats just a noise in your own head. It is now clear to me that you failed English and MATHS at school.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Dumb dumb - I am bored of "owning" you in this thread and repeatedly pointing out your oversights and mistakes to you. If you insist with your repeated attempts to "own" me - can you have someone with half a brain proof read your posts for logical sense and relevance. Its fun to have intelligent debate - but with you I feel like a remedial teacher trying to explain why your arguments are fallacious, illogical and just wrong.

You clearly need comprehension help - this has never been so apprent with your repeated assertions that I said Meninga and Cronin were crap players and that Crossan was a great player. I never said any such thing. You just lack comprehension skills and I think are quite illiterate. I have repetaedly and clearly said that Cronin and Meninga were great players but crap goalkickers. I have repetadly and clearly said Crossan was a crap player who was signed for his useful goal kicking. I cannot be more clear than that and yet you managed to f*ck it up.

I take it back dumb dumb, there is clearly no point in you returning to school - sometimes you just gotta accept that something is beyond you. But if you must reply to my posts, as I say, get your mum or your dad (anyone with half a brain, ideally educated) to give them a once over and check that you're not making a total fool out of yourself

 

[ANTiLAG]

Let's see:

1- No

2- No

3- Yes

4- No

5- Yes

6- Possibly (not sure on this one)

7- No. Meaningful competition means more than three international sides in the entire world that aren't a complete joke

8- No. The League 'World Cup' is a total farce and individual events are barely remembered

9- No

10- Yes, but the exchange went both ways.

If you read 7 - clearly it has nothing to do with international competition and is a sole reference to club competitions. Unless you think the Ranfurly shield is within coohey of the NRL/ARL/NSWRL? League had the ideas first and Union came merrily along later.

How is league not responsible for professional rugby?