Ultrathread I: Thread of the Year - 2014

[Apey]

I pretty much agree with the vibe of rhino's post, keeping in mind the wrongful conviction issue and the other feasibility issue it brings up; where do you draw the line? Morally I have no problems with capital punishment for the extreme cases. Sometimes you've just forfeited your right to exist as far as I'm concerned...

 

[whall15]

I am pretty strongly against the death penalty. State sponsored murder is still murder

Also can't get my head around the religious right in america and their love of the death penalty, given their general pro-life attitude.

Although that then opens up the abortion debate as well, which is an interesting one

They're also willing to let people starve to death and to let people die of disease.

 

[Apey]

The danger of dogma, I guess...

 

[Rhino_NQ]

should also be legally be able to slap those who follow this sort of conversation

"it's so wrong he is getting the death penalty"
"they found 30 peoples remains underneath the house"
"yeah but he has rights"
SLAP!!!

 

[Red Bear]

How do you show you, as a people, are better than the scumbag criminals if you just do the exact same thing to them Rhino?

 

[muzby]

here's one - what if the death penalty is provided as an option to the guilty..

eg.. When given a life sentence, the criminal can select death instead, if they choose

 

[Drew-Sta]

They're also willing to let people starve to death and to let people die of disease.

... or kill each other with guns cheaper than medication.

The danger of dogma, I guess...

'My constitutional rights' is one of the most infuriating statements I've ever heard; the assumption they are inalienable human rights is so arrogant.

How do you show you, as a people, are better than the scumbag criminals if you just do the exact same thing to them Rhino?

This is my concern too. Rhino would consider you haven't stooped to their level, but I think there's a point you pass where grading things is simply justifying your behaviour - some will agree with the justification, others will not.

here's one - what if the death penalty is provided as an option to the guilty..

eg.. When given a life sentence, the criminal can select death instead, if they choose

Same thing, different jury.

The issue is the right to take life and whether humans have that right.

 

[Apey]

How do you show you, as a people, are better than the scumbag criminals if you just do the exact same thing to them Rhino?

Can't speak for rhino but when I say extreme cases I'm not talking about a single straight up murder. Coming from a rehabilitation perspective, not all murderers are beyond redeeming (as much as one could be redeemed for such a thing) themselves. Genuine psychopaths on the other hand?

here's one - what if the death penalty is provided as an option to the guilty..

eg.. When given a life sentence, the criminal can select death instead, if they choose

Trying to casually slip euthanasia into the conversation? :lol:

 

[Apey]

People who are against voluntary euthanasia generally have the worst arguments I have heard on any subject. Impress me!

 

[Skinner]

Can't speak for rhino but when I say extreme cases I'm not talking about a single straight up murder. Coming from a rehabilitation perspective, not all murderers are beyond redeeming (as much as one could be redeemed for such a thing) themselves. Genuine psychopaths on the other hand?



Trying to casually slip euthanasia into the conversation? :lol:

LOL, you are truly on to it Apey. Suicide by pleading guilty. I do think that muzby is offering an alternative into the debate though.

Rhino, I'm with you about 500% in your piece. I have very strong feelings on CP, but by Jesus Christ (sorry Drew), we have to be sure to be sure.

 

[Misanthrope]

Given the success of my bestiality question, I pose another: Is there a moral or ethical reason to bring back capital punishment?

Discuss.
________

It's a sadly slippery slope. I'd say I would be fine with it in the cases of criminals who are repeat offenders with heinous crimes such as murder and rape, but where do you decide what counts as a serial offender? 2 or 3? 5+? Do you take into account their psychological background?

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

UltraSeriousThread...

 

[Rhino_NQ]

yep, shit's got real

 

[Red Bear]

This is my concern too. Rhino would consider you haven't stooped to their level, but I think there's a point you pass where grading things is simply justifying your behaviour - some will agree with the justification, others will not.

Going along with this, whilst there are no doubt some psychopaths completely beyond rehabilitation, I think the death penalty is sort of a bandaid solution to crime. Not particularly deterrent, doesn't address the underlying social issues - a big thing in the states, just a way of saying oh well that ones done.

I think the way the United States society works has created an underclass of desperate people, with very little hope of escaping that scenario (other than, of course, the army, which is kind of deliberate as well), and the society would be better as a whole if they adressed alot of these problems, rather than just focus on extremely harsh sentencing for a variety of crimes that don't warrent it, and only serve to exaserbate the problem.

People who are against voluntary euthanasia generally have the worst arguments I have heard on any subject. Impress me!

Euthanasia and abortion are similar in my mind - Not a fan, but no real problem with legality. Abortion though I basically don't think should be needed in this day of a multitude of birth control options available, at some point there has to be some personal responsibility.

But of course abortion should be legal, because the alternative is backyard jobs (horrible) and there is a reasonable amount of times it's pretty valid (rape, incest, health of the mother etc).

Euthanasia, wouldn't do it myself, but can understand it being available for people. End stage of some diseases are absolutely horrid.

 

[Misanthrope]

I'm pro Euthanasia. I think it's a person's life, and they should be able to choose it whenever they so desire. Where does the government stop being in charge of you and your body?

Don't even get me started on the fact that at no point in your life do you agree to be ruled by these people who are apparently your betters and represent your interests. Democracy, and organised society on the large scale it exists, is a farce and it's beginning to tear at the seams. Mass shootings, huge rises in mental illness in the western world, an ever expanding divide between the rich and poor, and the fact the political system is inherently corrupt (and we're okay with this because changing it would mean revolution) are all signs that democracy - a fantastic concept when it was first practiced - does not work in nations the size of which exist today.

I don't know an alternative, sadly, but I choose to do as little as my living under that umbrella as I can. Humans were meant to live in groups and, maybe, even in cities. We were not meant to live in nations where we never meet or interact with our leadership.

 

[umina panther]

I can listen to arguments against the death penalty but no one should ever be able to tell people when they can die. Especially silly religious arguments

 

[Dragon2010]

Both euthanasia and the death penalty have a very fine line, with so many "If" "ands" or "buts" on the case by case scenario. Do they have their benefits? Of course, but not without major drawbacks.

That being said, I do have an opinion on them - One I'm much to tired (and too busy) to debate. But I will say this, medically, euthanasia can provide a benefit to people who suffer and a have diminished quality of life.

 

[Rhino_NQ]

I said it awhile ago and it still stands. When the day comes that someone else has to wipe my ass for me then put me down but in a way that I can still have an open casket. Whether it is legal or not I don't give a shit

 

[Apey]

Euthanasia and abortion are similar in my mind - Not a fan, but no real problem with legality.

I assume by that you mean your stance on them is the same, which is fair enough.

Abortion though I basically don't think should be needed in this day of a multitude of birth control options available, at some point there has to be some personal responsibility.

I'm "pro-choice" (pro choice and pro life are such stupid terms, especially since as your average pro-lifers are hardly pro-life at all) but I agree with you that there needs to be more personal responsibility when possible.

Euthanasia, wouldn't do it myself, but can understand it being available for people. End stage of some diseases are absolutely horrid.

You say you wouldn't do it now, but I'm surprised you could be confident you'd still feel that way if certain circumstances presented themselves. I actually tend to feel the same way though, I would say now I wouldn't do it either, but who knows how I'd feel if I was facing particular situations.

Still, it's kind of beside the point about whether you personally would do it or not; that anyone thinks they have the right to tell people they can't make this decision about their own lives is mind-boggling. It has the bad eggs of the 'pro-lifer' crowd written all over it.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

Chris Lawrence pulling off what shall now be known as a BF...