WA BEARS

[Bukowski]

Absolute Bullshìt... every team should be and will be developing players or the likes of Melbourne/Perth/Adelaide/Roosters won't have any players to poach from... this is not upto Penrith to solve this equation or Cronulla or only one area.. this is why i keep telling you the other clubs will not vote in a bid from perth, if its not an already established club that they'll be able to pick the eyes out of

They might be against a new team but wouldnt they prefer a club not in their area? Clubs have been able to pick the eyes out of dolphins juniors whether they had an NRL team or not. The dolphins haven't added new players to the rugby league pool.

 

[The Great Dane]

Absolute Bullshìt... every team should be and will be developing players or the likes of Melbourne/Perth/Adelaide/Roosters won't have any players to poach from... this is not upto Penrith to solve this equation or Cronulla or only one area.. this is why i keep telling you the other clubs will not vote in a bid from perth, if its not an already established club that they'll be able to pick the eyes out of

Under the current system, the only way that Perth is ever going to consistently produce a high amount of high quality juniors is if they have a local NRL side to push interest in the sport and facilitate that kind of development on that scale.

In other words, if you want to grow the talent pool in places like WA, SA, Vic, etc, then you need NRL sides in those places. There is no grassroots development building up to a pro side in the globalist social media age, it's simply not how the world works anymore, and it wasn't that effective even when it was.

 

[The Great Dane]

They might be against a new team but wouldnt they prefer a club not in their area? Clubs have been able to pick the eyes out of dolphins juniors whether they had an NRL team or not. The dolphins haven't added new players to the rugby league pool.

Yeah that's another point.

You don't really need expansion at all if RL is already popular enough to be consistently producing juniors in a region. In that case you've already got considerable market share in that market, and all you're doing is trying to convert people that already support other clubs into paying customers of a new club.

Don't get me wrong, there can be value in that, but it isn't really expansion in the purest sense of the term. You're not expanding anything, just better exploiting what you already have.

 

[Perth Red]

Absolute Bullshìt... every team should be and will be developing players or the likes of Melbourne/Perth/Adelaide/Roosters won't have any players to poach from... this is not upto Penrith to solve this equation or Cronulla or only one area.. this is why i keep telling you the other clubs will not vote in a bid from perth, if its not an already established club that they'll be able to pick the eyes out of

Stark reality is some clubs don’t have as many fans, some clubs can’t pull as many sponsors and some clubs just don’t have the jnr participation levels in their region to be able to have enough kids coming through to produce enough cream at the top to produce heaps of players. That’s just the reality of sport. Sure melbourne could have done better, sure nrl could have done a lot better in victoria at getting kids playing the game but reality is they will never be a west Sydney production line.

What they have become absolutely brilliant at, in fact the best in the comp by a long shot, is finding the best 17 year old kids and unwanted talent from aus and nz and turning Them into quality first graders. Ie what a first grade club should be responsible for.

 

[Perth Red]

The other thing no one has been able to answer me, maybe because it’s unanswerable, is how big does the pool of jnr participation need to be in order to have enough kids to come through into elite pathways to feed an nrl club? Is it 2000 kids, 5000 kids, 10,000 kids? What is this magical number perth, Victoria and all areas should be trying to get playing the game??

 

[The Great Dane]

The other thing no one has been able to answer me, maybe because it’s unanswerable, is how big does the pool of jnr participation need to be in order to have enough kids to come through into elite pathways to feed an nrl club? Is it 2000 kids, 5000 kids, 10,000 kids? What is this magical number perth, Victoria and all areas should be trying to get playing the game??

It's absolutely unanswerable if you're looking for an exact number, because it depends on the quality of the juniors at any one time. Even within the same talent pool that number would change with each generation.

The real answer has to be enough.

Enough to support your club and contribute to the greater talent pool. That way you're taking your fair share, and hopefully adding some, without becoming an undue burden on the rest of the game and other sides.

 

[Wb1234]

Under the current system, the only way that Perth is ever going to consistently produce a high amount of high quality juniors is if they have a local NRL side to push interest in the sport and facilitate that kind of development on that scale.

In other words, if you want to grow the talent pool in places like WA, SA, Vic, etc, then you need NRL sides in those places. There is no grassroots development building up to a pro side in the globalist social media age, it's simply not how the world works anymore, and it wasn't that effective even when it was.

You mean after they have been an nrl side for 100 years ?

storm are 25 years and can’t even manage one junior a year into their nrl side

 

[Perth Red]

It's absolutely unanswerable if you're looking for an exact number, because it depends on the quality of the juniors at any one time. Even within the same talent pool that number would change with each generation.

The real answer has to be enough.

Enough to support your club and contribute to the greater talent pool. That way you're taking your fair share, and hopefully adding some, without becoming an undue burden on the rest of the game and other sides.

But without knowing that how on earth can you plan For “enough”?

is it jnr participation numbers or quality of the elite pathway? if it’s the latter then who cares where the kids come from As long as the nrl clubs have the elite pathway systems to turn enough of them every year into quality first graders?
It seems to me there is enough kids playing the game now and new teams with new elite pathways can take the kids from aus and nz, and one day png and turn them into first graders.

we have some clubs with big jnr numbers in their region struggling to turn them into quality first grade teams and some clubs with minimal local numbers producing talent from around the countries turning them into first graders.

so maybe it’s not about jnr numbers and more about investment in scouting and elite systems?

 

[The Great Dane]

What they have become absolutely brilliant at, in fact the best in the comp by a long shot, is finding the best 17 year old kids and unwanted talent from aus and nz and turning Them into quality first graders. Ie what a first grade club should be responsible for.

I.e. getting lucky with the big three/four and then capitalising on that success to pinch as much of the cream of others crops as possible lol.

Come on, be honest about the situation. We both know that you don't honestly believe that your Melbourne's, Rooster's, Bronco's when they're not run incompetently, etc, would be as successful in the player market place as they have been if they couldn't leverage some of the inherent benefits of their markets into success on the field!?

It's a self fulfilling prophecy, and why the salary cap, and particularly the third party system, needs to be completely overhauled. It's not fit for purpose anymore, and totally handicaps clubs in markets with less access to large amounts of third parties.

 

[Perth Red]

I.e. getting lucky with the big three/four and then capitalising on that success to pinch as much of the cream of others crops as possible lol.

Come on, be honest about the situation. We both know that you don't honestly believe that your Melbourne's, Rooster's, Bronco's when they're not run incompetently, etc, would be as successful in the player market place as they have been if they couldn't leverage some of the inherent benefits of their markets into success on the field!?

It's a self fulfilling prophecy, and why the salary cap, and particularly the third party system, needs to be completely overhauled. It's not fit for purpose anymore, and totally handicaps clubs in markets with less access to large amounts of third parties.

Who was the last big name star player storm went out and signed ? must be heaps with all those third party agreements?
Storm have one of the highest debut for the club rosters over the last decade in the nrl.

now how many players they have turned into stars have then gone and signed for other clubs? Lots is the answer!

other clubs should be grateful to the Storm for producing talent for them!

 

[The Great Dane]

But without knowing that how on earth can you plan For “enough”?

Trial and error until you achieve the desired outcome.

It's why clubs focused on junior development are so much less successful than the others on average (Penrith's current team notwithstanding, but they're absolutely a curious anomaly and the exception that proves the rule, but I digress).

It's necessary for the comp's survival that such clubs exist, but those clubs are basically doomed to struggling most of the time. It's one of the main reasons why the current system is so unfair, they do most of the work, get the least of the reward.

 

[The Great Dane]

Who was the last big name star player storm went out and signed ?

Nobody said anything about signing big name star players.

Engage with what is there, not what you wish was there.

Storm have one of the highest debut for the club rosters over the last decade in the nrl.

now how many players they have turned into stars have then gone and signed for other clubs? Lots is the answer!

other clubs should be grateful to the Storm for producing talent for them!

Which isn't all that impressive when they go around nabbing as many of the top juniors prospects in country as they possibly can.

Anybody with enough money can buy horses with good racing pedigree from the best stables in the world, but to actually breed those horses for yourself is another question entirely.

 

[The Great Dane]

You mean after they have been an nrl side for 100 years ?

storm are 25 years and can’t even manage one junior a year into their nrl side

I've already covered this territory-

In the case of the Storm, the only reason they haven't developed more local talent, or junior numbers in Melbourne/Victoria, is because they didn't start making serious attempts to do so until within roughly the last half decade. They would have developed many more Victorian players by now had they started seriously investing in junior development in 1998 instead of 2018, but instead decided to go the easy route of focusing on poaching and developing players mainly from Qld, and who can blame them considering the success it's brought them.

Moneyball (and systematic salary cap cheating lol) works. Don't hate the player, don't even hate the game, work to change the game for a better outcome for everybody.

 

[Wb1234]

I've already covered this territory-

Ok 150 years then

 

[The Great Dane]

Ok 150 years then

You know part of me admires what you do.

It must take considerable effort to be as dishonest and full of shit as you are.

 

[Wb1234]

You know part of me admires what you do.

It must take considerable effort to be as dishonest and full of shit as you are.

That’s you !

 

[Pneuma]

You know part of me admires what you do.

It must take considerable effort to be as dishonest and full of shit as you are.

That’s a bit rude!

 

[Perth Red]

Nobody said anything about signing big name star players.

Engage with what is there, not what you wish was there.

Which isn't all that impressive when they go around nabbing as many of the top juniors prospects in country as they possibly can.

Anybody with enough money can buy horses with good racing pedigree from the best stables in the world, but to actually breed those horses for yourself is another question entirely.

sorry I thought the comment about third parties was trying to suggest something?

How do they do that? They only have the same amount of spots in their elite pathway jnr system teams as everyone else. What is telling is how they go about their business. Listening to the papa interview it was interesting to hear how thorough Storm are in scouting and background checks on which players they’ll choose, then the quality of support and training these players get as they come through.
thats why they are so succesful at developing players, not because they are signing up all the good jnr in the countries. They sign the ones they can see might make it and then help them make it. Exactly what every nrl club should be doing. Storm are doing a good job filling the gaps of heartland clubs who can’t seem to be able to do this despite a wealth of jnrs on their doorstep !

 

[MugaB]

That’s a bit rude!

Very... it shows how serious some of the "Believers" are here

In regards to the Penrith anamoly, its just planning over 10 years worth of preparation and elite scouting, now its just about upkeeping in that area,

Storm are also valuable in training the best young talent, but seems to only be effective for premeirships whilst they could keep "the Big three" whilst underhanded 3rd parties, keeping the squad poach free from other clubs, unless its under thier terms... a place where Penrith are now... but the difference is we are happy to let the juniors go, to not clogg up the production line of current and future talent that might get whisked away

 

[Wb1234]

Very... it shows how serious some of the "Believers" are here

In regards to the Penrith anamoly, its just planning over 10 years worth of preparation and elite scouting, now its just about upkeeping in that area,

Storm are also valuable in training the best young talent, but seems to only be effective for premeirships whilst they could keep "the Big three" whilst underhanded 3rd parties, keeping the squad poach free from other clubs, unless its under thier terms... a place where Penrith are now... but the difference is we are happy to let the juniors go, to not clogg up the production line of current and future talent that might get whisked away

It’s not an anamoly

for 20 years clubs like the roosters and storm dominated

both set terrible examples for the other clubs to follow

the roosters bought their way to comps

the storm wrestled their way to comps

the whole comp was just a poor version of these two clubs

then along came Penrith and changed the ballgame

local kids from the area who played their juniors together (rip roosters)

a team which adapted the best to six again with little wrestling and actual old fashioned rugby league

it’s scary we could be watching the modern day st George

every club now will be investing in juniors and playing eyes up rugby league … and that’s a good thing

Penrith are EXACTLY what a rugby league club looks like

at the other end of the spectrum is Melbourne as will a Perth nrl team will be