WA BEARS

[LeagueXIII]

Ok, Let's look at a 24 team comp from a point of broadcasting and Broadcast rights.
First, the conditions... 24 Clubs set in 4 conferences of 6 teams. I'll name them after players for S & Gs.

Messenger: Roosters, Souths, Titans, WA, NZ2 (Orcas maybe), Dragons

Meninga: Broncos, Cowboys, Sharks, Tigers, Canberra, PNG

Jones (or some other Kiwi/Maori player): Warriors, Sea Eagles, Dogs, Storm, Dolphins, CC

Coote: Knights, Parra, Panthers, Bris 3, Melb 2, Adelaide

Each conference has at least one rivalry or derby. Every Conference has NSW, QLD and an Affiliate state or country

Noting that both FTA and PTV will have limited ability to show all games live and uninterrupted due to double ups in the schedule. FTA could show games by region (eg. Ch 9 in Perth would show specifically Perth games + a few others, Melb would broadcast both Melb teams + a few "Games of the week" etc) or sell of broadcast rights for each individual conference or specific clubs to various FTA providers (don't rely solely on Ch 9. This also makes the market more competitive as the game day broadcast needs to be spectacular or you could be losing more content to a rival).

PTV would have to set up multiple channels (Fox League 1, 2 and possibly 3) and the broadcast would have to rely heavily on streaming (eg, pick the games you want to watch), replay others you're not overly interested in.

Play each team in your conference twice, then the other 12 games are made up of teams outside the conference. Yes, this means that you don't play everyone in the year; however this is what happens in the NFL, you just rotate through the teams outside your conference that you would play against.

Stand alone Rep/ International weeks at the middle of the season. This means there are no byes per se, but a still content for broadcasters to play.

Just a hipshot idea, and obviously needs fine tuning but could be a realistic future in 50 years.

There is alot of potential in it...each conference would have a naming sponsor.

 

[LeagueXIII]

How do we produce enough quality players to fill 24 rosters when participation isn't growing?

If we're honest there isn't enough talent to cover 16 squads with quality half-backs, five-eights, fullbacks and dummy-halves.

Titans have gone from being a top eight team in 2021 to last after losing their experienced journeymen halfback and dummy-half. Neither were world beaters, but they organised the team and got the ball where it needed to go. The club replaced them with young guns who aren't ready.

We grow it invest in it and develop it. Necessity is the mother of invention

 

[siv]

I woukd like to see Perth get ready for NRL by joining the Qld Cup with Darwin

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

H

We grow it invest in it and develop it. Necessity is the mother of invention

How do we invest in it and grow it when we've taken money out of it to keep unviable Sydney clubs alive?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I've still yet to see any research that shows that talent production is a numbers game rather than a quality of pathways game. So lets say there are 100k kids playing Rl now, and out of that 100k kids we get 50 a year make the NRL first grade. Hypothetically If we doubled the number of kids playing to 200k would that mean we would A) get 100 kids a year ready for NRL first grade or B) still only get 50 kids making first grade but they would be better quality or C) neither?

The argument over talent in first grade always seems to focus on participation numbers but I'm not so sure. I think quality of coaching, training, nutrition, psychology, talent spotting pathway to 1st grade in your city etc etc could be equally, if not more, important for jnr systems. Some evidence that backs up my theory:

1. Panthers have always had a massive jnr participation region but only in recent years have they got serious about offering a very high quality pathway experience. This is now showing in the quality of first grader they are bringing through has improved significantly.

2. In the lead up to a country hosting the Olympics they spend a lot of money on sports preparation, participation numbers in those sports dont go up yet performance does as the host countries often get record medal hauls.

3. Despite a few thousand jnrs in Victoria the money spent on grassroots there is a pittance and has failed to produce any significant talent despite having a successful 1st grade team for 25 years.

4. PNG has a massive playing pool, yet has produced very few NRL players

5. NFL has expanded number of teams significantly but there has not been any significant increase in college players during that period, yet the NFL quality has not been diluted.

So is it numbers or systems thats the problem? Personally I think its more systems.

If it's a matter of more money in equals better quality of juniors then our game is f**ked, as we've taken money away from the grassroots.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I think if we had opportunities for the Best PNG 15 year olds to move into Aus systems like the Kiwi kids do then we would undoubtably see more PNG talent in first grade. When we get our Pirates Academy set up in Port Moresby

They need to enter junior teams in the QRL system.

 

[LeagueXIII]

H

How do we invest in it and grow it when we've taken money out of it to keep unviable Sydney clubs alive?

We whinge and moan and hope for the best....

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

We whinge and moan and hope for the best....

There's another way, but no one has the guts to do it because "sooks" will cry so much the country will run out of tissues again.

 

[Wb1234]

its the same claim they make about being big on the Gold Coast because the Southport Sharks are a very large and cashed up club, but League is far more entrenched on the Gold Coast and its surrounds despite what this board says about the place....

Lmao who says Gold Coast isn’t a rugby league heartland

 

[Wb1234]

How do we produce enough quality players to fill 24 rosters when participation isn't growing?

If we're honest there isn't enough talent to cover 16 squads with quality half-backs, five-eights, fullbacks and dummy-halves.

Titans have gone from being a top eight team in 2021 to last after losing their experienced journeymen halfback and dummy-half. Neither were world beaters, but they organised the team and got the ball where it needed to go. The club replaced them with young guns who aren't ready.

Png
Tonga
Samoa
Cook islands
Nz
Queensland
Sydney
Wa
Union
Super league

only four Sydney clubs really produce juniors too. You think the roosters actually produce many players

every Sydney club should be investing in juniors like Penrith are

 

[Wb1234]

Agreed, I said on this forum years ago we should be aiming for 24 teams and have conferences.
Grow the game as a whole.

It will over time

20 is the minimum and then they start to consider teams like png

 

[Wb1234]

So I bet even all five afl fans in cairns were glued to their TV sets tonight

 

[Wb1234]

Sounds good in theory but there is a finite resource on club sponsors, quality players and TV contracts. Unless the TV landscape changes dramatically we are at saturation at 18 clubs really in terms of value for stand alone game spots. Game 9 is likely going to be 6pm Sunday game. After that you've not really got any more unique game slots left. Monday night is fraught with scheduling and turn around problems, creates over saturation of the tv product and sees clubs struggle to realise fan revenue.

Of course if streaming changes our main stream viewing habits, like it may well do, then you dont need stand alone spots and could have 2-3 games on at same time which would mean less limitations. No sign yet though that TV will continue to pay $50mill a game to cover that.

With grants to clubs now hovering around the $16-17 mill (when you include NRLW and reserve grade grants) you'd need to be looking at least $150-200mill extra on the TV revenue to get to 24 clubs based on todays revenue/expense rates. That's a 50% increase on this Tv deal, which has seen only around a 5% growth on the last deal.

Despite massive NRL grant increases in recent years most clubs still couldn't survive on FC operations alone and still require LC or other funding. We either need to bring clubs expenses down (club expenditure has doubled on avg in the last 10 years) or increase FC revenue so they can stand on their own two feet and any new clubs coming in can be sustainable on the grant plus FC revenue only. That not only opens up expansion options but also sees a more attractive business proposition for investors.

So you finally admitted the tv deal is higher now

 

[Perth Red]

Again with this.. seriously wheres Perths acedemy for 15yr old WA players , Id suggest South Africa is a better idea that PNG..... if PNG 15 yrs old are going into an acedemy they shant be traveling all t he way to Perth to play S.G ball, when they can possibly play in QCup

Weve already got a WA one, png will supplement it, along with a qlnd one.

 

[Perth Red]

So you finally admitted the tv deal is higher now

Yes thanks to skynz. Which has nothing to do with extra content of a 17th club. As I’ve said all along.
The rest of the increase is $5mill a year ch9 contra which is nothing of any great value.

 

[Wb1234]

Yes thanks to skynz. Which has nothing to do with extra content of a 17th club. As I’ve said all along.
The rest of the increase is $5mill a year ch9 contra which is nothing of any great value.

So you were wrong all along ?

good to see you finally admitted what we all were saying

 

[MugaB]

Weve already got a WA one, png will supplement it, along with a qlnd one.

If you need to be supplemented, then you're not needed as a location, the license should be going to whoever has the player pool, PNG, NZ2, QLD5 these areas should be expanded to first as they will increase/EXPAND the league, adding Perth has become dot on a map stuff now, the more you talk about pathways and an acedemy set up in a foreign state and now country, whats the fkn point of perth, what are they giving back.... might aswell have another roosters in sydney

 

[flippikat]

I woukd like to see Perth get ready for NRL by joining the Qld Cup with Darwin

Qld Cup currently has 14 teams, NSW Cup has 12 teams.

I'd add them to NSW Cup, make each competition 14 teams, and have some "inter-league" rounds each year (NSW Cup teams vs Qld Cup teams) - hell, even play them as part of stand-alone rep weekends.

 

[Perth Red]

If you need to be supplemented, then you're not needed as a location, the license should be going to whoever has the player pool, PNG, NZ2, QLD5 these areas should be expanded to first as they will increase/EXPAND the league, adding Perth has become dot on a map stuff now, the more you talk about pathways and an acedemy set up in a foreign state and now country, whats the fkn point of perth, what are they giving back.... might aswell have another roosters in sydney

Sounds like you are trolling and if you cant see the benefits of perth to growing the game more than just a 'dot on the map' then I really cant show you by now, but...... lol Dolphins have had 75 years of pathway development in RL heartland yet still feeling the need to partner with other areas. Whats good for the goose......

 

[Perth Red]

So you were wrong all along ?

good to see you finally admitted what we all were saying

Nope I was right when I have consistently said that Australian Tv partners are not paying any more cash in this deal than the last one and that the Dolphins have not brought in any extra money from Fox than they were paying for 16 clubs. Them's the facts.
Thankfully someone else in NZ was interested in the rights there or else we would likely not have seen any increase at all which would have been even more of a massive failure of vlandys negotiating skills than him not getting any more money out of Ch9&Fox!