We could've had Wayne Bennett as coach, we opted for Ivan Cleary

[The Realist]

Wow that is some historic revisionism going on Alice. It is all Bennet's fault and had nothing at all to do with Tinkler going under and the hopeless management installed by the former?

Remember when Bennett went back to Brisbane they were one tackle of Michael Morgan away from winning a GF. What have we achieved in the last 15 years?

Sure Bennett had his faults at Newcastle but it sure as hell wasn't the sole or even major reason for their problems. But he is a very convenient scape goat!

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Wow that is some historic revisionism going on Alice. It is all Bennet's fault and had nothing at all to do with Tinkler going under and the hopeless management installed by the former?

Remember when Bennett went back to Brisbane they were one tackle of Michael Morgan away from winning a GF. What have we achieved in the last 15 years?

Sure Bennett had his faults at Newcastle but it sure as hell wasn't the sole or even major reason for their problems. But he is a very convenient scape goat!

I disagree.

Bennett is a flat track bully as a coach. As soon as the money runs out he goes AWL.

 

[hindy111]

My feelings on Ivan are based purely on coaching. He lacks a plan B, C and D. Is too friendly with the players and doesn't drop under perforning guys enough

He also went and signed Reynolds and Loleha at the tigers on big coins who spent most time in reserves.

 

[Pomoz]

Fact Bennett ripped the guts out of Newcastle's good developmental pathways system. Up until this time Newey have always developed their own superstars. Generally the NRL team was made up of at least 40% local juniors.

Fact: Bennett refused to engage with the local community. Refused to allow the team to develop the previous strong relationships with the community.

I live in the area. I've seen it first hand. Seen loyal Newey members very upset by this. When the going got too hard. The money dried up. Bennett cut and run. Fact.

How many more facts do you need.

Alice, most of what you have said are not facts they are statements. Whether there was less than 40% of local juniors doesn’t mean Bennett tore up the pathways. Sometimes the local juniors aren’t good enough. Facts can be verified. Your statements are implausible and without evidence don’t really stand up to scrutiny.

Bennett has developed so many juniors and turned them into rep players yet you state he destroyed pathways. How did he do that and did the board approve the decision? Why did he destroy the pathhways? It makes no sense.

I think Newcastle need to look closer to home to find the cause of its problems. Maybe they should start by looking at the decision to hire a CEO with no experience, followed by the decision to sign Rick Stone even though Bennett told them he wasn’t good enough. Then there’s the decision to let Tinkler fund the club......

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Gould’s comments on his relationship with Ivan.
https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/penrit...n-cleary/d79ade2c-9491-44a4-9c6d-df75f6302487

Doesn't sound exceptionally friendly to me.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Alice, most of what you have said are not facts they are statements. Whether there was less than 40% of local juniors doesn’t mean Bennett tore up the pathways. Sometimes the local juniors aren’t good enough. Facts can be verified. Your statements are implausible and without evidence don’t really stand up to scrutiny.

Bennett has developed so many juniors and turned them into rep players yet you state he destroyed pathways. How did he do that and did the board approve the decision? Why did he destroy the pathhways? It makes no sense.

I think Newcastle need to look closer to home to find the cause of its problems. Maybe they should start by looking at the decision to hire a CEO with no experience, followed by the decision to sign Rick Stone even though Bennett told them he wasn’t good enough. Then there’s the decision to let Tinkler fund the club......

I disagree. I will leave it at this. Especially as this is the Penrith section of the forum.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Doesn't sound exceptionally friendly to me.

what do you want. Photos of them 'doing coffee together' Moonlight strolls.

Please.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

what do you want. Photos of them 'doing coffee together' Moonlight strolls.

Please.

Just giving my opinion on the tone of Gould's comments. Calm down. For someone who is always preaching civility, you are exceptionally quick to sarcastically attack the views of others while avoiding the actual topic. If you think the comments don't betray a lack of a productive relationship between the two, explain why. If you don't feel like doing that, just don't comment.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Just giving my opinion on the tone of Gould's comments. Calm down. For someone who is always preaching civility, you are exceptionally quick to sarcastically attack the views of others while avoiding the actual topic. If you think the comments don't betray a lack of a productive relationship between the two, explain why. If you don't feel like doing that, just don't comment.

Sorry. I was attempting to be funny. Tone is a bit like body language. It changes with the individual.

Meaning that 10 folks can see something, and at times you will get 10 different interpretations to the images or the sound bite.

 

[age.s]

I'm not convinced by the modern day Bennett.

90s and 00s Bennett, is obviously a legendary proposition, but 10s (from 2011 onwards specifically) Bennett has been a mixed bag at best. He made (and went very close to winning) a GF at Brisbane, but that's in the context of being at the helm of a club that is the sole team in a RL mad city of 2m. I think given they've been proverbial pretenders at all other times under his reign I think you'd call that below par. Worth noting that Cleary has a GF appearance to his name in this decade as well.

The fact that the Broncos were so eager to ditch him for a coach who is barely out of his proverbial diapers says a lot. A club that can have anyone, had him as a coach and were eager to get rid him in his 2018/19 vintage. Are we to assume their board is incompetent? Or maybe he's not the coach he once was. That's before we even start on his time at Newcastle. The Tinkler debacle obviously played a significant role but lets not pretend his time there was in any way successful.

Will he do well at Souths this year? Quite probably, he has a very strong, stable roster with a great blend of youth and experience that seems to be really hitting its straps. Would he have done better than Cleary here? It's possible. The idea that he would have put the finishing touches on a raw but talented roster isn't without merit. Is he so manifestly the obvious choice that gross negligence is the only explanation for our board going in another direction? No. Absolutely not.

Gus and the board being on completely different pages is a far more disturbing revelation tbh.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Sorry. I was attempting to be funny. Tone is a bit like body language. It changes with the individual.

Meaning that 10 folks can see something, and at times you will get 10 different interpretations to the images or the sound bite.

Fair enough. Objection withdrawn.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Gus and the board being on completely different pages is a far more disturbing revelation tbh.

That is basically the crux of the matter - it doesn't matter what your opinion on the relative merits of Cleary or Bennett is, Gould's tenure is becoming more and more untenable by the week.

 

[darkbloom]

What kind of shitfight of a club is being run here, where the CEO makes decisions behind the back of a high profile GM? Someone is going to come out of this looking like a complete fool and the Panthers club is being caught in the crossfire. Our brand and goodwill as everyone's 2nd favourite team has already been trashed and for what?

One thing is for certain, the current board are hopeless their time is surely coming to an end.

It wasn't the CEO it was the Chairman of the Board. Which is much worse The Board nor theChairman are not there to make recruitment decisions except of the appointment of the top paid position (be it GM or CEO, or whatever title). Then the CEO is responsible for recruitment - and necessarily so. At times, for other senior positions the Board should be consulted and have the right to approve appointments.

This looks like there is a power play going on.

Interestingly enough Gus has made disastrous appointments without consulting the Board - Warren Wilson being the major one, Corey Payne another. If I was a board member I would not be wanting Gus to employing anyone to manage the business - appointing a coach may be a bit different.

Allegedly Ivan's recruitment was dependent on being guaranteed Gus would keep his distance from the team - very wise on IVan's behalf given both his own experience with Gus and Gus's long history of feuds.

But the interesting thing with this is who leaked the so called secret dealings with Bennett. And who benefits from this story at this time. This story clearly distances Gus from the decision to employ Ivan. Is that what Gus wants? If so, are we seeing the first shots fired in what could be a protracted and painful period of our history.

I'd say everyone should be sleeping with one eye open.

 

[macnaz]

Bennett's recruitment at the knights was terrible, but he didn't need to recruit here. Would've been a short term thing.

Correct .. ask Saints ... sitting around gagging while the GF was played until Bennett came along.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sp...-after-bennett-bombshell-20190401-p519og.html

This article by Webster seems to be the best of a bad bunch. Genuine quotes and the like. I know Gould and Webster are mates too.

All I want and I'm sure all Panther fans want is the players to be playing to the best of their ability. The squad is talented. They are down on confidence.

The other positive to note is that Cup and Flegg teams are doing well. If they were all doing poorly, things would be (in my opinion) far less positive.

 

[Das Hassler]

Gould said last night ( when prodded) that yes...if there were continuing onfield problems then Ivan would probably still come to have a chat with him. ....fair enough and all good. But...can you imagine Guss ..even with his own record of success ever daring to say that if Bennett was onboard no matter how bad the results were? ....there's your difference in the coaches..in regards the team, Ivan asked to be totally in charge as a condition ( as expected )...Bennett just IS in charge..no duscussion about it and that's why the players have never run his club...they dont dare try. His media nonsense is tedious but his authority is real ....Maquire the same....Bellamy no need to mention.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I think our 'esteemed' CEO wanted to be in the limelight and get his mate back to Panthers - I suspect that having Cleary snr back is a political power move for the CEO. Males Gus look like a loser to boot. I hope we can get rid of him (CEO) pronto

What kind of shitfight of a club is being run here, where the CEO makes decisions behind the back of a high profile GM? Someone is going to come out of this looking like a complete fool and the Panthers club is being caught in the crossfire. Our brand and goodwill as everyone's 2nd favourite team has already been trashed and for what?

One thing is for certain, the current board are hopeless their time is surely coming to an end.

It wasn't the CEO, that's Bryan Fletcher. It was the Chairman, Dave O'Neil.


From what I understand they were dismayed at Gus for having sacked Cleary & brought in Griffin, so it's probably not a surprise they froze out Gus this time. Don't forget Gus has made a number of odd decisions over the past few years. Nothing earth shattering, but it adds up.

 

[herbert henry1908]

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sp...-after-bennett-bombshell-20190401-p519og.html

This article by Webster seems to be the best of a bad bunch. Genuine quotes and the like. I know Gould and Webster are mates too.

All I want and I'm sure all Panther fans want is the players to be playing to the best of their ability. The squad is talented. They are down on confidence.

The other positive to note is that Cup and Flegg teams are doing well. If they were all doing poorly, things would be (in my opinion) far less positive.

Our juniors are almost always doing fairly well, the problem has always been first grade.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Up here in the Hunter Bennett's name is mud. Pure mud.

I get that, but at Penrith he wouldn't have been in charge like he was at Newcastle. Gus still could've run all the off field stuff. I'd take Bennett for 2-3 years over Ivan any day.

There's simply no excuses for Ivan Cleary this year, for the first time in his career he has a good squad from the start. Ife he can't make the top 6 it's a failure.

 

[mxlegend99]

I get that, but at Penrith he wouldn't have been in charge like he was at Newcastle. Gus still could've run all the off field stuff. I'd take Bennett for 2-3 years over Ivan any day.

There's simply no excuses for Ivan Cleary this year, for the first time in his career he has a good squad from the start. Ife he can't make the top 6 it's a failure.

Our squad has 13 good players:

1. Edwards (not the same since injury)
2. Mansour (not the same since injury)
3. Blake
4. Whare (not the same since injury)
5. DWZ
6. Maloney
7. Cleary
8. Leota
10. Tamou
11. Yeo
12. Kikau
13. JFH
15. RCG

We then have potentially good players, but but so far yet to show it:
9. Katoa
14. Egan
18. Luai (has shown it once.. needs a better run though)

Followed by fringe first graders:
Sele
Hetherington
Ellis
Winterstein
Fuimaono
etc.

Our cap is all put into our 13 proven players and the potential hooker/halves. After that the quality drops off quickly.

Which would be fine except we've had injuries to Yeo and Kikau. While 3 of our star backs are not even close to peak form and have barely showed glimpses of it since injury.

We lost a few representative players and signed other clubs reserve graders who are walking into our top 17.

Last year these guys wouldn't go close to it short of an enormous injury toll.