Week 3 Finals v Melbourne

[Girds89]

Not really it just saves saying unstructured play. Same thing really

Exactly... call it what you like..

Off the cuff

Game breaker

X factor...

Basically theirs 3 or 4% of players in the comp that can do stuff others just cant do.

Edwards will never ever ever do what walsh can in attack... no matter how much training he gets or how good the coaching is.

Hes not going to gain 4 or 5 yards of pace.. hes not going to develop a kicking game like walshes etc.. coaching has developed other parts of his game.

 

[Girds89]

Yeah he offers what they lack.

Just back to what you said about Cartwright. I put Alamonti in that same boat.

That 66-0 game for example. He was on the right with all rookies, He should of been put in between JAC and Burton. Ciraldo will
Learn from it, Alamonti will get fit and learn our system then see what he has

Alamoti is 19. Always been a highly talented kid.

Pretty standard for players like him to struggle in grade especially in an avg team.. used to carving up and dominating in juniors and get a real shake and wake uo in nrl against season players.

I personally think he will really push for a starting spot.

Ivan will get him fit and hell be pushed to work as hard as our other players.. good culture brings that.

Defence and consistency will follow. He already has the skillful stuff.. just needs some fine tuning

 

[Chins get the wins]

Exactly... call it what you like..

Off the cuff

Game breaker

X factor...

Basically theirs 3 or 4% of players in the comp that can do stuff others just cant do.

Edwards will never ever ever do what walsh can in attack... no matter how much training he gets or how good the coaching is.

Hes not going to gain 4 or 5 yards of pace.. hes not going to develop a kicking game like walshes etc.. coaching has developed other parts of his game.

Edwards can kick better than he can pass. Maybe he should be bringing that into games. I guess it's not needed in our structure though

 

[Girds89]

Edwards can kick better than he can pass. Maybe he should be bringing that into games. I guess it's not needed in our structure though

Hes passing has been great this year.. he has laid on a number of tries and line breaks.

He has slowly improved every year in the nrl and ill back him to slowly keep improving in that regard.

Doing a long kick here or there is different to being a full time kicker and kicking under pressure. Walsh does a large chuck of kicking for the broncs. Hes got a great boot on him

 

[Luke Bowden]

Mate you talk about teaching a kid to defend in a structure in your first paragraph.

Second paragraph you are saying that they need to be a good defender to be recruited.

The defence in matts, ball, flegg suggests the vast majority of kids are pretty avg defenders.

Players like jennings, Cartwright etc etc etc would never have been recruited....

You don't hear about clubs paying 500k for a 18 year cause the kid can defend... (suuallii....)

They pay top money cause they have x factor and they have physical attributes that are freakish..

Learning to defend really isnt hard. As i said and literally every commentator says countless times every week... its an attitude thing.

Do you think penrith atm has all the best defenders in the nrl??? In every single position??? Do you think all our players have the best footy iq in the comp???

No, we have a team full of extremley motivated individuals that have a rock solid attitude to defence.

They work hard for each ogher on the inside and slide hard to cover each other.

They are extremely fit and have the best line speed in the comp...

These arent a learning the defence...

These are learning the fundamentals of what it takes to be a fg nrl player for the Panthers.

Hard work for each other..not giving up for each other..

Yes we have good structures but structure means nothing legit nothing without attitude.

You can have the best defensive coach in the history of the game but if you have half a dozen Cartwrights out there and brent nadens than you aremt going to stop trys.

How many Suuallii’s get signed every season?

Defensive attitude is 50% of what is trained into a structure or system. It’s the same thing.

 

[Chins get the wins]

Hes passing has been great this year.. he has laid on a number of tries and line breaks.

He has slowly improved every year in the nrl and ill back him to slowly keep improving in that regard.

Doing a long kick here or there is different to being a full time kicker and kicking under pressure. Walsh does a large chuck of kicking for the broncs. Hes got a great boot on him

He has improved but Mal's talk of him playing centre for Australia is crazy. No way he can catch and pass that quick

 

[BxTom]

Exactly... call it what you like..

Off the cuff

Game breaker

X factor...

Basically theirs 3 or 4% of players in the comp that can do stuff others just cant do.

Edwards will never ever ever do what walsh can in attack... no matter how much training he gets or how good the coaching is.

Hes not going to gain 4 or 5 yards of pace.. hes not going to develop a kicking game like walshes etc.. coaching has developed other parts of his game.

None of Momirovski, Garner, Capewell, Televano, Hoskins, Salmon or Sorensen can be said to have 'X factor'. I'm guessing that Cleary saw some other potential. Ability to defend? Ability to fit in our structure? Just saying. They all seemed to work out good for us.

 

[Girds89]

None of Momirovski, Garner, Capewell, Televano, Hoskins, Salmon or Sorensen can be said to have 'X factor'. I'm guessing that Cleary saw some other potential. Ability to defend? Ability to fit in our structure? Just saying. They all seemed to work out good for us.

Youve kinda missed the whole point of the discussion Bx.

Not what i was talking about at all. Not sure how recruiting kids...14 year olds... has anything to do with bringing in blokes on the cusp or in the nrl

 

[Westernised Panther]

The kiss of death as LU cricket fans will know. We also have BM on the bandwagon......maybe we are in trouble

No we’ll be fine. @Someone2 has tipped Parra by 10…….

 

[Luke Bowden]

Youve kinda missed the whole point of the discussion Bx.

Not what i was talking about at all. Not sure how recruiting kids...14 year olds... has anything to do with bringing in blokes on the cusp or in the nrl

It’s the same principle, that’s the overwhelming fact that you are missing.

 

[Girds89]

It’s the same principle, that’s the overwhelming fact that you are missing.

Im not missing anything haha..

A squad is a mix... you need solid journeyman reliable types like bx mentioned...

Mixed in with a bit of flair and skillful players...

Its a balance... it really doesnt even need to be mentioned its thst obvious but sometimes i feel like if you dont spell out the obvious on here people throw all the toys out the cot.

Some of our best skillful players would never of been picked if you were in charge apparently... they sucked at defence...

Thankfully jim jones and his crew knows their stuff and have been picking out the best young for years. Defensive guns and kids with all the flair but plenty to work on off the ball.

Im glad jenko certainly didnt get thrown on the scrap heap... took him 4 or 5 years at nrl... 10 years in nrl systems to become a good defender...

Got picked for nsw and aus because he had x factor and was a jet.

 

[Pomoz]

If defence is about attitude, then when you are looking at 14 year old, I guess you are assessing their character not their technique.

Their willingness to engage in physical contact, not shrink when a big forward runs at them. Racing to get back in position when they make a tackle, diving on loose balls. Standing up to aggression. Character is hard to teach, the building blocks have to be there and a good culture will help develop that.

Sure, the technical aspects of defending can be taught and is not important when assessing kids. I think Luke is referring to that when he talks about defence. Without that Character, you don't have the basis for an NRL player regardless of how skilled and speedy they are.

Our players seem to have been picked because of their character. Commentators rarely complement our defensive technique.
Are the Panthers technically better than any other team when it comes to defence? I think no, but technique doesn't make Kenny dive on a loose ball, or try and smash a prop twice his size. It doesn't make Marto try and put the opposition into the front seats, or make Leota square up to rampaging props like Fonua Blake. It's all about character. Character = defensive resolve. Find the youngsters with that and you are on the way to building a good team. Find them with character + "X" and you are championship material.

 

[Iamback]

Edwards can kick better than he can pass. Maybe he should be bringing that into games. I guess it's not needed in our structure though

Luai out. Crichton moves to the left and him and Turuva cause trouble. That is how we play it but yeah Edwards could kick more

 

[Luke Bowden]

Im not missing anything haha..

A squad is a mix... you need solid journeyman reliable types like bx mentioned...

Mixed in with a bit of flair and skillful players...

Its a balance... it really doesnt even need to be mentioned its thst obvious but sometimes i feel like if you dont spell out the obvious on here people throw all the toys out the cot.

Some of our best skillful players would never of been picked if you were in charge apparently... they sucked at defence...

Thankfully jim jones and his crew knows their stuff and have been picking out the best young for years. Defensive guns and kids with all the flair but plenty to work on off the ball.

Im glad jenko certainly didnt get thrown on the scrap heap... took him 4 or 5 years at nrl... 10 years in nrl systems to become a good defender...

Got picked for nsw and aus because he had x factor and was a jet.

I get that you think you know what you’re on about, you post with such passion and confidence. That’s all very admirable, but you don’t really understand this particular topic. The more you post, the more it becomes apparent.

 

[Luke Bowden]

Luai out. Crichton moves to the left and him and Turuva cause trouble. That is how we play it but yeah Edwards could kick more

He’s out?? I heard he was going pretty well with the contact…

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Mate you talk about teaching a kid to defend in a structure in your first paragraph.

Second paragraph you are saying that they need to be a good defender to be recruited.

The defence in matts, ball, flegg suggests the vast majority of kids are pretty avg defenders.

Players like jennings, Cartwright etc etc etc would never have been recruited....

You don't hear about clubs paying 500k for a 18 year cause the kid can defend... (suuallii....)

They pay top money cause they have x factor and they have physical attributes that are freakish..

Learning to defend really isnt hard. As i said and literally every commentator says countless times every week... its an attitude thing.

Do you think penrith atm has all the best defenders in the nrl??? In every single position??? Do you think all our players have the best footy iq in the comp???

No, we have a team full of extremley motivated individuals that have a rock solid attitude to defence.

They work hard for each ogher on the inside and slide hard to cover each other.

They are extremely fit and have the best line speed in the comp...

These arent a learning the defence...

These are learning the fundamentals of what it takes to be a fg nrl player for the Panthers.

Hard work for each other..not giving up for each other..

Yes we have good structures but structure means nothing legit nothing without attitude.

You can have the best defensive coach in the history of the game but if you have half a dozen Cartwrights out there and brent nadens than you aremt going to stop trys.

Does the quality of defence in the younger grades say that they are poor defenders, or that system is more important and that in the junior grades the part time nature of the squads means the systems aren’t as good?

 

[Chins get the wins]

I get that you think you know what you’re on about, you post with such passion and confidence. That’s all very admirable, but you don’t really understand this particular topic. The more you post, the more it becomes apparent.

Even when you and I argue it doesn't drag on and on. Just get a room you 2

 

[StanTheMan]

If defence is about attitude, then when you are looking at 14 year old, I guess you are assessing their character not their technique.

Their willingness to engage in physical contact, not shrink when a big forward runs at them. Racing to get back in position when they make a tackle, diving on loose balls. Standing up to aggression. Character is hard to teach, the building blocks have to be there and a good culture will help develop that.

Sure, the technical aspects of defending can be taught and is not important when assessing kids. I think Luke is referring to that when he talks about defence. Without that Character, you don't have the basis for an NRL player regardless of how skilled and speedy they are.

Our players seem to have been picked because of their character. Commentators rarely complement our defensive technique.
Are the Panthers technically better than any other team when it comes to defence? I think no, but technique doesn't make Kenny dive on a loose ball, or try and smash a prop twice his size. It doesn't make Marto try and put the opposition into the front seats, or make Leota square up to rampaging props like Fonua Blake. It's all about character. Character = defensive resolve. Find the youngsters with that and you are on the way to building a good team. Find them with character + "X" and you are championship material.

I recall reading an article where Ivan talked about this. After our rough start to 2019 he made the decision to select the team based on character.

 

[WestyLife]

You cant teach players x factor.

Few have real nrl star quality x factor.

Ponga, walsh, latrell etc. Blokes that can literally do something from absolutely nothing when they have no right to.

Thats not stuff any nrl coach has taught them... for the most part they have all been doing the things they do since they were kids...

The biggest and most important part of defence is attitude.

With the right attitude you can get blokes performing in a good system.

You cant miraculously turn them into a star...

You said scouts look for defence 1st...

I call bs on that... yes its an admirable thing to have but the defensive standard in ball, matts flegg etc is not great... players learn the importance of defense as they move through the grades.

Greg waddell wasnt a star defender
Cartwright was a deadset horrible defender
Jennings a horrible defender as a junior

Joseph suuaalii wasnt in hot demand cause he was a gun defender..

Same was walsh

These guys and sooooo many more got scouted cause they were freaks with the ball in hand.

Coaches back themselves to train players into good defenders because the star factor they possess doesnt come along everyday...

If i was a scout i certainly wouldnt be knocking back the next walsh or tago or ponga because they have shit defense as an 14 or 14 year old.

Because you only have to look at MJ as the perfect example...

Deadset horrible defender as a kid and relied purely on his attacking brilliance yet turned into one of the best defensive centres in the game..

He had the x factor... defence was taught..

 

[WestyLife]

If defence is about attitude, then when you are looking at 14 year old, I guess you are assessing their character not their technique.

Their willingness to engage in physical contact, not shrink when a big forward runs at them. Racing to get back in position when they make a tackle, diving on loose balls. Standing up to aggression. Character is hard to teach, the building blocks have to be there and a good culture will help develop that.

Sure, the technical aspects of defending can be taught and is not important when assessing kids. I think Luke is referring to that when he talks about defence. Without that Character, you don't have the basis for an NRL player regardless of how skilled and speedy they are.

Our players seem to have been picked because of their character. Commentators rarely complement our defensive technique.
Are the Panthers technically better than any other team when it comes to defence? I think no, but technique doesn't make Kenny dive on a loose ball, or try and smash a prop twice his size. It doesn't make Marto try and put the opposition into the front seats, or make Leota square up to rampaging props like Fonua Blake. It's all about character. Character = defensive resolve. Find the youngsters with that and you are on the way to building a good team. Find them with character + "X" and you are championship material.

Bellamy has said that is what he looks for.