What the hell? RLIF proposing anyone can play for any qualifying country

[jim_57]

Biggest problem I have with letting players play state of origin and for another country is why is it fair that one player can play origin and for a country however someone like Kieran Foran who played his junior footy in NSW can't. If you are going to change the rule that Origin representation is separate from Country you need to make it fair for all players. Further to the point I am certain if you ask Milford, frizzle, Evans or the majority of others if they would rather represent Australia or there Heritage country they will pick Australia most likely because its where they were born and raised. Anthony Milford could have played for Samoa this year but didn't because he wanted to play for Australia.

If they chose Australia there is no problem, they should have the choice though. If you have lived in QLD for 10+ years but were born or your parents were born in NZ, Samoa or Mexico you should the right to represent QLD and your Country of birth/heritage.

Of course a bigger/better International schedule for nations outside the "big 3" would help a lot..

 

[siv]

This whole idea of removing Origin as only open to those that qualify for Australia is a bit silly.

If Origin is allowed to have the best players of other nations involved, wouldn't that just further undermine the international game. 'Congratulations. You're the best in your county, now come and represent Queensland or NSW.'

Agree simple rule is that Australia should only selected players who can play Origin for any state under the Origin rules

 

[siv]

If they chose Australia there is no problem, they should have the choice though. If you have lived in QLD for 10+ years but were born or your parents were born in NZ, Samoa or Mexico you should the right to represent QLD and your Country of birth/heritage.

Of course a bigger/better International schedule for nations outside the "big 3" would help a lot..

Again I agree - but you need to wait 2 years

Unless changing from the big 3 to another nation

 

[siv]

Biggest problem I have with letting players play state of origin and for another country is why is it fair that one player can play origin and for a country however someone like Kieran Foran who played his junior footy in NSW can't. If you are going to change the rule that Origin representation is separate from Country you need to make it fair for all players. Further to the point I am certain if you ask Milford, frizzle, Evans or the majority of others if they would rather represent Australia or there Heritage country they will pick Australia most likely because its where they were born and raised. Anthony Milford could have played for Samoa this year but didn't because he wanted to play for Australia.

Origin as much as people dont understand is a selection trial for Australia

Its not a All Star match

 

[jim_57]

Origin as much as people dont understand is a selection trial for Australia

Its not a All Star match

But these days it's not really, Australia don't play for months after Origin finishes and in some years don't play at all.

Origin and International should be separated entirely IMO, it needs to adapt with the times, first step is allowing ANYBODY has lived in NSW or QLD 10+ years to be eligible regardless of their choice of nation.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

How many current players in the samaon and Tongan teams would give up representing their nation forever on the very slim chance they'd be picked for origin? Would Papalii, Tamou have chosen origin over their home nations as teenagers?

So we hope that kids make bad decision when theye young?? great...

And that brings up another issue; why are we excluding these great players just because they wanted to remain loyal to a Pacific nation over the Australia behemoth.

Is it so hard to grasp that most players have more than one heritage?!?!?!!?!?! Is immigration and cross-cultural marriage really such a strange concept?

NSW will never play against a Pacific nation, so players arent jumping teams for the best offer like they do in the NRL. These are different levels of rep football and the current rules can only be for Australia to hoard players.

Possibly, possibly not. The farce is people can change their minds whenever they want. If they are forced to make a hard decision early then we may avoid these farcical situations. Will still get situations where players eligible for both may pick the chance at origin, like maybe a kane evans type of youngster, but how is that different to what happens now. At least you'll get a few nore players fully commit themselves to the smaller nations.
There is no way in hell that we open origin to all nations.

No one is suggesting "open Origin up to the world". Keep the eligibility restriction or tighten them for all i care...

But in the case of an kid that immigrated or a child with parents from different countries, why is it so hard to understand that they have more than one heritage and would probably like to honour both.

A player from the Pacific wont destroy Origin (we've had it a hundred times already) and an origin player turning up for a Pacific nation will only help that team (imagine what the profile of an Origin player like Hayne or Aku would do for RL in Fiji).

THIS is the rule that has hamstrung the international game and THIS is the rule that needs to be fix (that, or just admit we dont care about International football...)

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Biggest problem I have with letting players play state of origin and for another country is why is it fair that one player can play origin and for a country however someone like Kieran Foran who played his junior footy in NSW can't. If you are going to change the rule that Origin representation is separate from Country you need to make it fair for all players.

The limits of eligibility for Origin is a totally separate discussion...

I personally think we go way overboard with them. Fans arent prejudiced against people born outside of their State, all of the NZ and Pacific born players are proof of this.

The point is that players commit to a State and then dont change (like they do at club level). THAT is what makes Origin special ; you dont just hunt a pay-check, you pick a team and trick with them through everything.

But, again, different discussion...

Further to the point I am certain if you ask Milford, frizzle, Evans or the majority of others if they would rather represent Australia or there Heritage country they will pick Australia most likely because its where they were born and raised. Anthony Milford could have played for Samoa this year but didn't because he wanted to play for Australia.

This is not even kind of true. None of us know how the players feel about this or how they would react to the rule change...

These players might genuinely want to represent Australia, but for all we know, they pick a State and suffer through the Kangaroo jersey.

If the rule did change, they are welcome to stick with the Roos (and we would be sure these players actually wanted to be there). But some of them would want to play for their Pacific home and that would be good for the game as a whole

As for the proposed rule changes I will be so disappointed and fed up if they through with this. It will be a complete sham watching players swap countries tournament to tournament. I don't understand how no one running the sport realises that while countries like Samoa are feeder teams for Australia and New Zealand they will never be able to reach there level.

This i agree with...

The thing that makes Rep football spacial is that players dont jump between teams for cash. They commit to a nation/state and build over years.

The idea the RLIF is looking at is WORSE than the status quo...

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Agree simple rule is that Australia should only selected players who can play Origin for any state under the Origin rules

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

And what about people from the 5 other states?

 

[Knownothing]

And another anomaly surrounding Origin is that Australian born players who do not qualify for either Queensland or NSW are out in the cold. Which is rather strange for a game with pretensions to be a national sport.

 

[expansionist]

Origin as much as people dont understand is a selection trial for Australia

Its not a All Star match

My issue with this point - is that its blatantly not the case.

Adrian Lam? Craig Smith? Tonie Carroll? etc.

There are precedents here that proves that SOO isnt necessarily locking a player into Australia. Legally this just wouldnt stand up.

My take on this is all it would take is one nation and one player to test this and the whole thing would fall apart.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

It might be an idea for someone to table a generic message of disapproval of these ideas, post it on here and we can all send the personally signed message to the RLIF.

 

[DiegoNT]

So we hope that kids make bad decision when theye young?? great...

And that brings up another issue; why are we excluding these great players just because they wanted to remain loyal to a Pacific nation over the Australia behemoth.

Is it so hard to grasp that most players have more than one heritage?!?!?!!?!?! Is immigration and cross-cultural marriage really such a strange concept?

NSW will never play against a Pacific nation, so players arent jumping teams for the best offer like they do in the NRL. These are different levels of rep football and the current rules can only be for Australia to hoard players.



No one is suggesting "open Origin up to the world". Keep the eligibility restriction or tighten them for all i care...

But in the case of an kid that immigrated or a child with parents from different countries, why is it so hard to understand that they have more than one heritage and would probably like to honour both.

A player from the Pacific wont destroy Origin (we've had it a hundred times already) and an origin player turning up for a Pacific nation will only help that team (imagine what the profile of an Origin player like Hayne or Aku would do for RL in Fiji).

THIS is the rule that has hamstrung the international game and THIS is the rule that needs to be fix (that, or just admit we dont care about International football...)

So these people of more then one heritage, should they represent australia and their nation of heritage? Maybe play for Australia in april, origin in june/july and for a nation of heritage in October? We have to let them represent all their heritages right? Plus if one parent is aussie and one parent is from a tongan and samoan couple does that mean he can represent all 3?
State of Origin is one of the pinacles of AUSTRALIAN sport, where the best AUSTRALIAN players compete against each other and at the end of the day the best performers in Origin make the AUSTRALIAN team.

 

[deal.with.it]

I don't know why it's so hard for the rlif and arlc to grasp the idea of international sport.
We aren't the only sport with players of many heritages.
Just follow union, soccer, cricket etc.
You get picked to play for a country, you decide if you want to, and you know if you do play you'll have to stand down for a couple of years before you can swap.
Yes, some players will miss out. And? That's international sport ffs.
Pick a team that wants to play, keep them together, train hard, succeed.
Too many nations look for the easy way out and are pissed off when one of "their" players elects to play for one of the big 3.

 

[jim_57]

So these people of more then one heritage, should they represent australia and their nation of heritage? Maybe play for Australia in april, origin in june/july and for a nation of heritage in October? We have to let them represent all their heritages right? Plus if one parent is aussie and one parent is from a tongan and samoan couple does that mean he can represent all 3?
State of Origin is one of the pinacles of AUSTRALIAN sport, where the best AUSTRALIAN players compete against each other and at the end of the day the best performers in Origin make the AUSTRALIAN team.

State of Origin has a history of players who go on to play for other nations and will continue to do so. Hardly the most fair dinkum Aussie battler game it used to be. No reason why it can't adapt with the times, for me eligibility for Origin should have no effect on your National preference, but there needs to be strict rules for Origin to stop just anyone playing. I would go with:

• Born in NSW or QLD
• Lived in NSW or QLD for 10+ years

That way all players will have a genuine claim to representing the state and there's be no ring ins from NZ or England unless/until they meet the 10+ years.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

The current origin rules are good. It's the international rules that are a joke.

 

[adamkungl]

It might be an idea for someone to table a generic message of disapproval of these ideas, post it on here and we can all send the personally signed message to the RLIF.

I'll try come up with something in the next couple of days.

 

[Matterhorn]

What happens if somoa,tonga or Fiji eventually one day beat Australia?

It means the best players who qualify for both Aus or a Pacific nation could get easily picked up by Australia later on. Meaning if they had a rematch later on after the upset the players from the pacific nation could be lining up for Australia.

At same point we need strong leadership that says commit to a country - any country but changing because one country doesn't pick you or a better country has an interest in you is just plain DUMB.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

So these people of more then one heritage, should they represent australia and their nation of heritage? Maybe play for Australia in april, origin in june/july and for a nation of heritage in October? We have to let them represent all their heritages right? Plus if one parent is aussie and one parent is from a tongan and samoan couple does that mean he can represent all 3?

You obviously dont understand that ACTUAL value of representative football....

Its not about being represented b people born in the same vicinity as you (you have never heard of these people until they put on the jersey), it is about players committing to a side and not jumping ship to chase the cash as they do at club level. They commit to a team and build year after year

So, no, they shouldnt allowed to pick 5 international teams to represent. BUT that is still a totally separate issue to Origin...

We dont tell players to pick a State OR Australia, they play for both (so OBVIOUSLY they are different levels that never clash). Im saying, rather than telling them to pick a state and endure the Roos jumper, why not let them play for the Nation they want to represent?

State of Origin is one of the pinacles of AUSTRALIAN sport, where the best AUSTRALIAN players compete against each other and at the end of the day the best performers in Origin make the AUSTRALIAN team.

Sam Thaiday: Born in Sydney - Played for QLD
Petro Civoneciva: Born in Fiji - Played for QLD
Greg Inglis: Born in Bowraville, NSW - Played for QLD

Julian O'Neil: Born in Hornsby, NSW - Played for QLD
Israel Folau: Born in Minto, NSW - Played for QLD
Billy Moore: Born in Tenterfield, NSW - Played for QLD

Brad Thorn: Born In NZ - Played for QLD
Karmichael Hunt: Born in NZ - Played for QLD
Tony Carroll: Born in NZ - Played for QLD

Michael Crocker: Born in Sydney - Played for QLD
Lote Tuqiri: Born in Fiji - Played for QLD
Adrian Lam: Born in PNG - Played for QLD

Ben Teo: Born in NZ (and represented Samoa) - Played for QLD
Wayne Bartrim: Born in NSW - Played for QLD
Matt Rogers: Born in NSW - Played for QLD

Josh Papalii: Born in NZ - Played for QLD
Neville Costigan: Born in PNG - Played for QLD
James Tamou: Born in NZ - Played for NSW
Aku Uate: Born in Fiji - Played for NSW




So tell us again how this is AUSTRALIANS playing for AUSTRALIA and QUEENSLANDERS playing for QUEENSLAND...

 

[DiegoNT]

You obviously dont understand that ACTUAL value of representative football....

Its not about being represented b people born in the same vicinity as you (you have never heard of these people until they put on the jersey), it is about players committing to a side and not jumping ship to chase the cash as they do at club level. They commit to a team and build year after year

So, no, they shouldnt allowed to pick 5 international teams to represent. BUT that is still a totally separate issue to Origin...

We dont tell players to pick a State OR Australia, they play for both (so OBVIOUSLY they are different levels that never clash). Im saying, rather than telling them to pick a state and endure the Roos jumper, why not let them play for the Nation they want to represent?



Sam Thaiday: Born in Sydney - Played for QLD
Petro Civoneciva: Born in Fiji - Played for QLD
Greg Inglis: Born in Bowraville, NSW - Played for QLD

Julian O'Neil: Born in Hornsby, NSW - Played for QLD
Israel Folau: Born in Minto, NSW - Played for QLD
Billy Moore: Born in Tenterfield, NSW - Played for QLD

Brad Thorn: Born In NZ - Played for QLD
Karmichael Hunt: Born in NZ - Played for QLD
Tony Carroll: Born in NZ - Played for QLD

Michael Crocker: Born in Sydney - Played for QLD
Lote Tuqiri: Born in Fiji - Played for QLD
Adrian Lam: Born in PNG - Played for QLD

Ben Teo: Born in NZ (and represented Samoa) - Played for QLD
Wayne Bartrim: Born in NSW - Played for QLD
Matt Rogers: Born in NSW - Played for QLD

Josh Papalii: Born in NZ - Played for QLD
Neville Costigan: Born in PNG - Played for QLD
James Tamou: Born in NZ - Played for NSW
Aku Uate: Born in Fiji - Played for NSW




So tell us again how this is AUSTRALIANS playing for AUSTRALIA and QUEENSLANDERS playing for QUEENSLAND...

Because all of those players with the exception of Lam represented... drum roll please.... AUSTRALIA!

It's the sacrifice you make for playing Origin. It stops the mercenary money tactic of the radrara's of the world. At the moment players can play for their nations, switch to origin, then switch to australia. That is a farce. If players were given an ultimatium play Origin or play for your nation of heritage then pledging yourself to origin isn't such an easy decision as it is right now. Plenty of players like milford and papali will pick origin and australia, as is their right as people with more then one heritage, but the guys who give up origin for the smaller nations are sacrificing a lot and creating a strong culture of representing theur nation. The smaller nations will be better of for people fully committing themselves to their cause.

 

[adamkungl]

Because all of those players with the exception of Lam represented... drum roll please.... AUSTRALIA!

It's the sacrifice you make for playing Origin. It stops the mercenary money tactic of the radrara's of the world. At the moment players can play for their nations, switch to origin, then switch to australia. That is a farce. If players were given an ultimatium play Origin or play for your nation of heritage then pledging yourself to origin isn't such an easy decision as it is right now. Plenty of players like milford and papali will pick origin and australia, as is their right as people with more then one heritage, but the guys who give up origin for the smaller nations are sacrificing a lot and creating a strong culture of representing theur nation. The smaller nations will be better of for people fully committing themselves to their cause.

"the guys who give up origin for the smaller nations" aka nobody