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What the hell? RLIF proposing anyone can play for any qualifying country

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
If we are planning the structure of international RL some 8-12 years into the future then how can other nations expect to compete or form any sort of development plan when they can't select their sides till after the big 3 have cherry picked any talent from them??
 

Scubby

Juniors
Messages
395
Just how many problems would decoupling Australian test selection/allegiance from Origin eligibility solve?

The Origin rules are now tight so not everyone can play. Isn't that the simple solution or am I missing something here? You can't have a World Cup with an Australian 1st draft pick.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
This is the last place football still is like the in 1908, when players showed up for the love of the jersey and not just the money; we cant have players switching allegiances just to get a run.

1908 was all about the money and nothing else. Can't see that this had or has anything to do with internationals.
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
Just how many problems would decoupling Australian test selection/allegiance from Origin eligibility solve?

The Origin rules are now tight so not everyone can play. Isn't that the simple solution or am I missing something here? You can't have a World Cup with an Australian 1st draft pick.

Decoupling it means players like milford can play for samoa & QLD,tyson frizzell wales & nsw,robbie farah & josh mansour lebanon & nsw,alex glenn cooks & qld etc...if they wish too
 
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langpark

First Grade
Messages
5,867
If this happens, I'm out.
I'm with you! This is worse than any of us could have possibly imagined.

I thought Mascord was being over the top in boycotting the last match. But I can see myself doing the same if this happens. Disgraceful doesn't even cut it, but I cannot find words to describe this.
 

Big Picture

Juniors
Messages
266
RL could learn a lot of good practice from other international sports, especially the three big ones which are soccer, basketball and handball (FIFA, FIBA and the IHF are three biggest federations among international sports). I looked up their respective rules are here they are:

Soccer:

III. Eligibility to play for representative teams

5 Principle



1. Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain Country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that Country.
2. With the exception of the conditions specified in article 8 below, any Player who has already participated in a match (either in full or in part) in an Official Competition of any category or any type of football for one Association may not play an international match for a representative team of another Association.


6 Nationality entitling Players to represent more than one Association

1. A Player who, under the terms of art. 5, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfills at least one of the following conditions:
a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years.

2. Regardless of par. 1 above, Associations sharing a common nationality may make an agreement under which item
(d) of par. 1 of this article is deleted completely or amended to specify a longer time limit. Such agreements shall be lodged with and approved by the Executive Committee.


7 Acquisition of a new nationality

Any Player who refers to art. 5 par. 1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art. 5 par. 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfills one of the following conditions:
a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.

8 Change of Association


1. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may, only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches to the Association of another Country of which he holds nationality, subject to the following conditions:
a) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) in an Official Competition at “A” international level for his current Association, and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an Official Competition for his current Association, he already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play.
b) He is not permitted to play for his new Association in any competition in which he has already played for his previous Association.

Basketball:

National Teams

15. In order to play for the national team of a country, a player must hold the legal nationality of that country, and have fulfilled also the conditions of eligibility according to the FIBA Internal Regulations.

Players with Two or More Nationalities

16. Any player with two legal nationalities or more, by birth or by naturalisation, may choose at any age the national team for which he wishes to play. Any such choice must be made in a written declaration to FIBA. This provision applies also to any player having acquired legal nationality by birth, or having the right to acquire a second nationality at birth, but who does not lay claim to this right until a given time in the future.

[Note: for exceptions see articles 3-20 and 3-21].

17. However, if a player having two (2) or more nationalities is summoned by a national member federation after reaching the age of eighteen (18), he is obliged to choose for which national team he wishes to play. If he has declined the summons, the player may choose only the national team of the other country/one of the other countries, unless he declares, in writing, within fifteen (15) days of receiving the summons that he has chosen the country that summoned him first.

[Note: for exception see article 3-23].

18. Any player having played in a main official competition of FIBA for a national team for which he is eligible is considered as having chosen the national team of that country, with the exception of cases provided for under articles 3-23 and 3-34.


19. Choices made under articles 3-16, 3-17, and 3-18 are irrevocable.

20. A player who has transferred as a young player according to article 3-52 may not choose until he has reached the age of twenty-one (21) the national team of any country other that the country from which he transferred.

21. a. A national team participating in a Competition of FIBA may have only one player on its team who has acquired the legal nationality of that country by naturalisation or by any other means after having reached the age of sixteen (16). This provision applies also to any player having the right to acquire a second nationality at birth but who did not lay claim to this right until after having reached the age of sixteen (16).
b. For purposes of letter (a) above and in the event of doubts, any player claiming to have acquired a legal nationality before having reached the age of sixteen (16), without presenting the respective passport with a date of issue before the player’s sixteenth birthday, requires a decision by the Secretary General confirming that he does not fall under the restriction of letter (a) above. In taking this decision the Secretary General shall take into account the following criteria:
- the number of years during which the player has lived in the country, for the national team of which he wishes to play;
- the number of seasons during which the player has participated in domestic competitions in the country of the national team for which he wishes to play;
- any other criteria capable of establishing a significant link between the player and the country, for the national team of which he wishes to play.

Handball:

IV. National Players

6.1 National team players shall meet the following conditions:

a) Citizenship of the country concerned.
b)They shall not have played in any national team of another country in the three years preceding their first appearance in the national team in an official match. Official matches are considered to be: the qualifying matches for a continental
championship, matches in a continental championship, qualifying matches for IHF World Championships and Olympic Games, matches in IHF World Championships and Olympic Games.

6.2 Player eligibility in case of multiple nationalities:

A player who holds more than one nationality and who complies with 6.1., is eligible to officially represent one of those countries if:
a) he was born in the territory of the federation concerned or
b) his biological mother or biological father were born in the territory of the federation concerned or
c) he has been living in the territory of the federation concerned for more than 24 months in any period of his life.

6.3 Change eligibility to play for a Change eligibility to play for a National Federation

It is only permitted to change the National Federation and thus to obtain eligibility to play for a new national team one time. In case of dissolution of an existing federation or a constitution of a new one, the IHF shall create a separate body to examine the cases should disputes over eligibility arise.


In all three cases nationality is a criterion which must be satisfied, residence only counts when a player has a the nationality of the relevant country by birth or naturalization. Some countries (e.g. Ireland) allow a person with a parent (or sometimes grandparent) born in that country to gain citizenship without having to be naturalized. Soccer and handball allow only one change of national eligibility with strict conditions, while basketball doesn't allow any.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,776
Seems we are headed for a RLIF v ARLC showdown

ARLC will use money or a token local game to get Pacific nations vote
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
Just how many problems would decoupling Australian test selection/allegiance from Origin eligibility solve?

The Origin rules are now tight so not everyone can play. Isn't that the simple solution or am I missing something here? You can't have a World Cup with an Australian 1st draft pick.

Jarryd Hayne, for example, is obviously very passionate about Origin and is also probably more passionate about Fiji that Australia.

Obviously we want him to play Origin again, but shouldnt have to choose between that and Fiji. He would do wonders for Fiji if he was able to appear for them; he would make them competitive, he'd become a cult hero for the nation and he'd probably become the face of development there.

The only reason he cant appear for both is because ARLC hoard all the best players...
 

spinnerhowland

Juniors
Messages
788
Jarryd Hayne, for example, is obviously very passionate about Origin and is also probably more passionate about Fiji that Australia.

Obviously we want him to play Origin again, but shouldnt have to choose between that and Fiji. He would do wonders for Fiji if he was able to appear for them; he would make them competitive, he'd become a cult hero for the nation and he'd probably become the face of development there.

The only reason he cant appear for both is because ARLC hoard all the best players...

If Hayne plays for the Fiji 7's team in the Olympics he will become a Demi-God in Fiji.
They have had fans raise money and donate to support their 7's team to the Olympics. Hayne brings RL, Union, and NFL eyes to the tiny nation, and that will bring enough sponsors and money to them that the fans don't have to keep shelling out.
Fiji has also never won an Olympic medal in any sport. Can you imagine how they will view Hayne if he plays, brings them money for the team and sport, and they win a medal. He will become a legend and hero, and 7's will be given a massive boost. Yes I am 100% a Rugby League man, but the offer and acceptance to get Hayne in the Fiji Olympic team brings then so much exposure it something they could never have paid for.
And I imagine that World Rugby wants him in the Olympics as much as Fiji does, for all the same seasons, so I imagine that they are having talks to WADA about any issues.
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
If Hayne plays for the Fiji 7's team in the Olympics he will become a Demi-God in Fiji.
They have had fans raise money and donate to support their 7's team to the Olympics. Hayne brings RL, Union, and NFL eyes to the tiny nation, and that will bring enough sponsors and money to them that the fans don't have to keep shelling out.
Fiji has also never won an Olympic medal in any sport. Can you imagine how they will view Hayne if he plays, brings them money for the team and sport, and they win a medal. He will become a legend and hero, and 7's will be given a massive boost. Yes I am 100% a Rugby League man, but the offer and acceptance to get Hayne in the Fiji Olympic team brings then so much exposure it something they could never have paid for.
And I imagine that World Rugby wants him in the Olympics as much as Fiji does, for all the same seasons, so I imagine that they are having talks to WADA about any issues.

Exactly...

And if he comes back to the NRL in time for the 2017 World Cup, we would be f*cking morons not to let him show for Fiji again.

Australia doesnt need any more help, we need to stop hoarding all of the best players...
 

jim_57

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,659
Exactly...

And if he comes back to the NRL in time for the 2017 World Cup, we would be f*cking morons not to let him show for Fiji again.

Australia doesnt need any more help, we need to stop hoarding all of the best players...

Playing under a Hayne lead Fijian team, with sold out games in Fiji for the World Cup would be hugely appealing to all eligible players. Could really cement Rugby League as a top sport and genuine career ambition for young Fijians. RLIF should be moving heaven and Earth to make it a reality.
 

johnny plath

Juniors
Messages
405
Jarryd Hayne, for example, is obviously very passionate about Origin and is also probably more passionate about Fiji that Australia.

Obviously we want him to play Origin again, but shouldnt have to choose between that and Fiji. He would do wonders for Fiji if he was able to appear for them; he would make them competitive, he'd become a cult hero for the nation and he'd probably become the face of development there.

The only reason he cant appear for both is because ARLC hoard all the best players...

Really. ..why do you say Hayne would be more passionate about Fiji than Australia. ..he's not some blow in. .he's born raised developed in Australia. ..why do people make it like its some conspiracy that Australians want to play for Australia. ..seriously give it a rest. ..who are all these players that Australia is hording...pretty sure they're all australian. ..if they aren't I'm happy to be enlightened.
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
All the players that are availible to play for "2nd tier" nation via heritage,the ones good enough to play origin but not good enough for australia..theres dozens of players in this bracket.

Tyson frizzell is a good case in point...on the verge of origin,never gonna be selected for australia but he'd be on of the first one the team sheet for wales....so for the sake of the odd call up for NSW he has to give up international RL..

Same goes for kane linnett with nsw & scotland..

Then theres countless PI heritage players past & present..like meteo,uate..will hopoate! Never ever gonna play for australia..so why can't he play for nsw & tonga..


Thats what is ment by australia hoarding players
 
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miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,474
Pretty sure this is a nothing article.

League powerbrokers are pressure-testing a range of potential scenarios, including allowing players to switch their nation of allegiance as many times as they like without fear of reprisal.

I'm not sure how they would carry out this pressure-testing, perhaps sounding out players, clubs, journalists, fans, hopefully reading forums etc.
 

some11

Referee
Messages
23,694
What's all of your proposals then?

You whinge about Australia hoarding all of the talent because they have to swear allegiance to Australia to play Origin, yet this proposal allows them to represent the system in which they came up through AND the country they wouldn't otherwise be able to represent.

Make up your minds.
 

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