What those advocating afl style expansion don't want u to know

[Colk]

That’s the thing if we’re being honest afl has been really stupid with the giants and suns.

And they don’t seem to have an exit strategy or a way to stem the bleeding

Yeah I would generally agree, although their revenue has increased substantially because of those two clubs.


I would argue though (mostly with GC) that it wasn’t the fact that they were not traditional markets that was the problem, it was the fact that they were the wrong markets. Gold Coast has been a pit for every sporting market, including us

 

[Wb1234]

Yeah I would generally agree, although their revenue has increased substantially because of those two clubs.


I would argue though (mostly with GC) that it wasn’t the fact that they were not traditional markets that was the problem, it was the fact that they were the wrong markets. Gold Coast has been a put for every sporting market, including us

Titans were fine the centre of excellence fiasco sent them under basically

then throw in the afl funding the suns to the max at the same time. They got that Ablett guy and had a massive marketing push

plus the afl bought the management rights for the stadium too.

in comparison the titans had no help from the arlc but are on the way up

 

[Perth Red]

That’s the thing if we’re being honest afl has been really stupid with the giants and suns.

And they don’t seem to have an exit strategy or a way to stem the bleeding

That's an opinion. They knew going in it was a long term investment, they wanted a ninth game to sell to maximise tv revenue growth and there was no obvious heartland areas capable of fielding an extra club. They didn't have much choice really and in the long term it builds on their 'national game' strategy. Their revenue growth is more than covering the cost of the two clubs. The alternative was to stick at 16 clubs, not have a ninth game to sell and have smaller tv deal and national sponsorship growth.

 

[Wb1234]

That's an opinion. They knew going in it was a long term investment, they wanted a ninth game to sell to maximise tv revenue growth and there was no obvious heartland areas capable of fielding an extra club. They didn't have much choice really and in the long term it builds on their 'national game' strategy. Their revenue growth is more than covering the cost of the two clubs. The alternative was to stick at 16 clubs, not have a ninth game to sell and have smaller tv deal and national sponsorship growth.

They wouldn’t be making losses if they could actually find these clubs.

 

[Perth Red]

They wouldn’t be making losses if they could actually find these clubs.

moments in time, as long as there arent other once in a lifetime pandemics they'll be fine lol. They can wear the losses, they've got the asset base to cover it ($255mill in retained earnings in 2019) and know there's a big pay day coming from next year in their new tv deal. Pre pandemic they made a $135million surplus over the years since they expanded despite increasing spending in all areas significantly and investing in assets such as buying Marvel stadium. The 3 years prior to pandemic hitting they made a $114million surplus over that period.

The good thing is the two years pre pandemic the NRL made two massive surplus years of $43 and $30mill, add in the surplus last year and the NRLs finances look good with lots of opportunity for investment into growth.

 

[Colk]

like the aflol did/ were ?

They make a lot more money than we do.

It’s pretty simple economics. If I own a business and it sells only to NSW and Qld for example, the amount of revenue that I can achieve potentially is going to be less than somebody that sells a similar product across the country. Essentially, my revenue potential is constrained.

Think of another example, do you think that MLB, NBA would have ever reached the amount of revenue they have if their games were played in only half of America.

Secondly, you shouldn’t make such a lazy comparison. The costs for running a club in AFL is considerably more than League, so the potential expenses are a lot less. The amount of non traditional markets that you would expand to would be less (Perth and maybe Adelaide - we’re not talking about four sides) again making the costs less and lastly societies have completely changed from the 1980’s and 1990’s - people move from state to state constantly, so it is not like there wouldn’t be people originally from NSW and QLD living now in WA or even SA

 

[Colk]

They wouldn’t be making losses if they could actually find these clubs.

But it is a big simplistic to say that they are losing money because of these clubs. There’s a difference between correlation and causation

 

[Wb1234]

moments in time, as long as there arent other once in a lifetime pandemics they'll be fine lol. They can wear the losses, they've got the asset base to cover it and know there's a big pay day coming from next year in their new tv deal. Pre pandemic they made a $135million surplus over the years since they expanded despite increasing spending in all areas significantly and investing in assets such as buying Marvel stadium. The 3 years prior to pandemic hitting they made a $114million surplus over that period.

The good thing is the two years pre pandemic the NRL made two massive surplus years of $43 and $30mill, add in the surplus last year and the NRLs finances look good with lots of opportunity for investment into growth.

You mean the same pandemic that the nrl shrugged off with ease ?

that one

 

[Wb1234]

But it is a big simplistic to say that they are losing money because of these clubs. There’s a difference between correlation and causation

He said they are easily able to fund those clubs

judging by the afls financial position that isn’t true at all

 

[Colk]

He said they are easily able to fund those clubs

judging by the afls financial position that isn’t true at all

They might have had the same problems without these clubs (depending if they see it as a problem or not as some companies decide to make short term losses rather than cut costs more)

In any case, there is no way that the NRL, if they decide to go with Perth and Adelaide for example, would spend anywhere near as much in order to fund a club there. The difference between costs per club AFL vs NRL is very significant

 

[Perth Red]

You mean the same pandemic that the nrl shrugged off with ease ?

that one

I wouldn't say shrugged off with ease lol. They lost $25mill in yr 1 of it and had significant reduced spending in community development and grassroots funding in yr2 to the tune of $35million.

 

[Perth Red]

He said they are easily able to fund those clubs

judging by the afls financial position that isn’t true at all

So you're going to ignore the 7 normal years where funding them wasn't a problem with their massive revenue increases and instead judge their ability to fund them on the 2 abnormal years of a global pandemic? Hmmm. Bias maybe?

 

[Wb1234]

They might have had the same problems without these clubs (depending if they see it as a problem or not as some companies decide to make short term losses rather than cut costs more)

In any case, there is no way that the NRL, if they decide to go with Perth and Adelaide for example, would spend anywhere near as much in order to fund a club there. The difference between costs per club AFL vs NRL is very significant

Adelaide is a long way down the list if not never

 

[Wb1234]

I wouldn't say shrugged off with ease lol. They lost $25mill in yr 1 of it and had significant reduced spending in community development and grassroots funding in yr2 to the tune of $35million.

Yeh nrl leaves covid behind with 170 million cash reserves and a massive surplus and record funding to clubs

afl draw down debts cut spending to clubs and lost a tonne of money

covid was a test of each sports leadership

you know who came out way in front

 

[Wb1234]

So you're going to ignore the 7 normal years where funding them wasn't a problem with their massive revenue increases and instead judge their ability to fund them on the 2 abnormal years of a global pandemic? Hmmm. Bias maybe?

Nah it’s just when vlandys took over

veni vidi vici

 

[Perth Red]

Nah it’s just when vlandys took over

veni vidi vici

yeh Im sure the AFLs bottom line was all to do with Vlandys and nothing to do with a global pandemic, you are funny.

 

[Perth Red]

Yeh nrl leaves covid behind with 170 million cash reserves and a massive surplus and record funding to clubs

afl draw down debts cut spending to clubs and lost a tonne of money

covid was a test of each sports leadership

you know who came out way in front

It was a good bottom line for sure, but You do acknowledge it was largely on a massive reduction to grassroots and community development funding ($35mill) dont you? Whilst their club funding was reduced by $13.5mil overall, AFL still spent $85mill more in '21 on clubs and players than the NRL.

'21 AFL had $201mill net assets
NRL $140.4mill

 

[Wb1234]

It was a good bottom line for sure, but You do acknowledge it was largely on a massive reduction to grassroots and community development funding ($35mill) dont you? Whilst their club funding was reduced by $13.5mil overall, AFL still spent $85mill more in '21 on clubs and players than the NRL.

'21 AFL had $201mill net assets
NRL $140.4mill

So afl clubs get 3 million less than each nrl club ?

and yet the afls bottom line is 100 million worse off than the nrls ?

stop it that’s hilarious.

 

[Colk]

Adelaide is a long way down the list if not never

I agree, they are definitely not front and centre at the moment. The only club that we would really be putting outside of a league stronghold would be Perth and maybe South Island NZ (considering that they more union than league) It’s not like anybody is seriously suggesting we put another side in Melbourne for example which would be really equivalent to GWS

 

[Perth Red]

So afl clubs get 3 million less than each nrl club ?

and yet the afls bottom line is 100 million worse off than the nrls ?

stop it that’s hilarious.

AFL clubs got an avg of $16.7mill grant in '21. NRL clubs got $15.3mill each (going from the Brisbane Broncos '21 annual report).