What those advocating afl style expansion don't want u to know

[Wb1234]

Bit simplistic isnt it? Origin only has 3 games played for 80 mins yet is rumored to be worth $20mill a year in tv value.

Yes their game goes longer, they have more games, due to our tardiness to expand, better metro reach and yes more advertising for FTA. However larger overall audiences, value of Origin, sydney market (or so I'm told by those on here), NZ rights etc should be counterbalances to some degree shouldnt they?
In terms of Australian rights AFL's will be around 25% higher next year.

I dont see what difference cap size and squad size makes to tv rights values? TV arent paying depending on the size of your squad or how much they are getting paid.

Whoosh

 

[Perth Red]

Whoosh

what? His argument is as their game goes 30% longer they should get 30% more tv revenue. That's very simplistic, or is all your harping on about the value of tv audience size and the sydney market no longer true? Lol. You cant have it both ways!

 

[MrE_Assassin]

Yeh 150 million from news ltd plus an nrl grant totalling 400 million to add 50k viewers in Melbourne. And no juniors

and the numbers of the swans lions suns and gws are way worse

You've clearly got no idea what you're talking about.

Participation in Victoria has been increasing steadily. NRL Vic has 18 Junior Rugby League clubs, 7 of which have been added to the competition since 2015. In 2022 there are 3 Men's Open age competitions and One women's first grade comp; plus at least one competition in every age group from 6s to 18s.

The Storm also have a junior representative pathways via the Vic Thunderbolts who play in the NSWRL SG Ball and Jersey Flegg comps.

They are also building a COE type facility for the improvement of grassroots football out at Broadmeadows

So to say there is no juniors in Melb is a gross misrepresentation.

 

[Perth Red]

You've clearly got no idea what you're talking about.

Participation in Victoria has been increasing steadily. NRL Vic has 18 Junior Rugby League clubs, 7 of which have been added to the competition since 2015. In 2022 there are 3 Men's Open age competitions and One women's first grade comp; plus at least one competition in every age group from 6s to 18s.

The Storm also have a junior representative pathways via the Vic Thunderbolts who play in the NSWRL SG Ball and Jersey Flegg comps.

They are also building a COE type facility for the improvement of grassroots football out at Broadmeadows

So to say there is no juniors in Melb is a gross misrepresentation.

He's prone to exaggeration and dumb statements. You'll get used to it.

 

[JamesRustle]

Bit simplistic isnt it? Origin only has 3 games played for 80 mins yet is rumored to be worth $20mill a year in tv value.

Yes their game goes longer, they have more games, due to our tardiness to expand, better metro reach and yes more advertising for FTA. However larger overall audiences, value of Origin, sydney market (or so I'm told by those on here), NZ rights etc should be counterbalances to some degree shouldnt they?
In terms of Australian rights AFL's will be around 25% higher next year.

I dont see what difference cap size and squad size makes to tv rights values? TV arent paying depending on the size of your squad or how much they are getting paid.

It is a bit simplistic, but that was the idea... I'm not trying to write up an indisputable position, rather put up some comparisons and variables that give some context to the usual AFL rights are worth $XX more than NRL so they have better management. Obviously market size and penetration would be critical to the buyer's assessment of value. But certainly total minutes of content and advertising opportunity comes into it in a big way too.

If you can put up the broadcast revenues we can compare, as a percentage, the difference between the two.

I left Origin out of the numbers, but you could even use Origin as a variable - either deduct $20m from the NRL figure, or say Origin is worth 6 games due to all the saturation of promotion so that the total NRL and AFL games are equal. International games and revenue is another variable - if it is identifiable (even roughly) it can be deducted to keep things simple and comparable...

They have 2 more teams but only 6 more games - not solely relating to NRL expansion pace, but also how many rounds each comps have. NRL will probably have more games next year and still have 1 less team than AFL.

AFL have a higher salary cap as they have more players to pay and need more revenue to maintain the same gross profit margin as the NRL. I included it to see how many of the comparable metrics were at that ~30% level.

Anyway, lets see the AFL revenue and the NRL revenue (domestic, origin, NZ (NRL). Does NRL derive any revenue from international matches/world cups, etc or is that ARL? If you have FTA/Pay/Streaming/Radio amounts/estimates, that would be useful.

 

[Perth Red]

It is a bit simplistic, but that was the idea... I'm not trying to write up an indisputable position, rather put up some comparisons and variables that give some context to the usual AFL rights are worth $XX more than NRL so they have better management. Obviously market size and penetration would be critical to the buyer's assessment of value. But certainly total minutes of content and advertising opportunity comes into it in a big way too.

If you can put up the broadcast revenues we can compare, as a percentage, the difference between the two.

I left Origin out of the numbers, but you could even use Origin as a variable - either deduct $20m from the NRL figure, or say Origin is worth 6 games due to all the saturation of promotion so that the total NRL and AFL games are equal. International games and revenue is another variable - if it is identifiable (even roughly) it can be deducted to keep things simple and comparable...

They have 2 more teams but only 6 more games - not solely relating to NRL expansion pace, but also how many rounds each comps have. NRL will probably have more games next year and still have 1 less team than AFL.

AFL have a higher salary cap as they have more players to pay and need more revenue to maintain the same gross profit margin as the NRL. I included it to see how many of the comparable metrics were at that ~30% level.

Anyway, lets see the AFL revenue and the NRL revenue (domestic, origin, NZ (NRL). Does NRL derive any revenue from international matches/world cups, etc or is that ARL? If you have FTA/Pay/Streaming/Radio amounts/estimates, that would be useful.

The figures, where available, are on the media thread. The totals next year will be NRL $403mill - AFL $473mill
NRL is broken down into
FTA $130mill
PTV/Streaming $240mill
SkyNZ $32.4mill

or thereabouts.

 

[Wb1234]

You've clearly got no idea what you're talking about.

Participation in Victoria has been increasing steadily. NRL Vic has 18 Junior Rugby League clubs, 7 of which have been added to the competition since 2015. In 2022 there are 3 Men's Open age competitions and One women's first grade comp; plus at least one competition in every age group from 6s to 18s.

The Storm also have a junior representative pathways via the Vic Thunderbolts who play in the NSWRL SG Ball and Jersey Flegg comps.

They are also building a COE type facility for the improvement of grassroots football out at Broadmeadows

So to say there is no juniors in Melb is a gross misrepresentation.

Shame they don’t produce any nrl players.

 

[JamesRustle]

The figures, where available, are on the media thread. The totals next year will be NRL $403mill - AFL $473mill
NRL is broken down into
FTA $130mill
PTV/Streaming $240mill
SkyNZ $32.4mill

or thereabouts.

I don't know that you need to adjust for SkyNZ. That is an NRL market for its domestic comp. AFL should generate better revenue from WA, SA, NT, Tas because they are generally more AFL leaning.

Anyway, you'd have to deduct $70m from the NRL revenue to derive a 30% premium for the AFL based on those numbers for next year. For me, I don't see the TV revenue as a failure for the NRL as compared to AFL.

As you say, mine is a simplistic approach, and there would be some serious industry analysis that works out the key factors in making an offer. I'd love to have some insight into the return per viewer or the new revenue they derive (especially PTV/Streaming) for bringing on new subscribers and how they see each sport in driving those increases.

Fox and 9 have really driven me away from anything other than watching the games. I can't stand most of the flogs they have on the discussion and analysis programs.. but I digress.

 

[T-Boon]

Broadcasters get more than 30% more TV time per AFL game and I would argue the AFL enables a lot more advertising opportunities via the number of stoppages and that after each goal there is a fixed time (conveniently about the time of an ad) before the umpires bounce the ball.

I've been saying that RL needs to go with an NFL type extra points (2 point conversion) after a try and also make kick offs more interesting. That would have made some money.

 

[JamesRustle]

I've been saying that RL needs to go with an NFL type extra points (2 point conversion) after a try ad also make kick offs more interesting. That would have made some money.

NRL already has 2 point conversions, but I'd be keen to hear about conversions in AFL.

I think AFL players should have the option to take a place kick for goal. If the ball hits the posts and stays in, it is play on.

An NRL player shouldn't be able to do the same kick off twice in the same game - one from the right foot, one from the left foot, one legal short kick off that goes 10-15m, one legal mid kick off that has to go 15-30m, one long kick off that has to go 30-50m, one kick off that has to enter the in goal area. 2 points if you find touch from the kick off, 1 point if you hit the goal posts, 1 point if the receiving team knocks on.

Also, NRL should have time off when the ball is out of play i.e. after a try/goal FG is scored until the kick off, once the ball is over the sideline/dead ball until it is tapped/scrum of drop out.

Is there a thread on this sort of bullshit?

 

[Wb1234]

NRL already has 2 point conversions, but I'd be keen to hear about conversions in AFL.

I think AFL players should have the option to take a place kick for goal. If the ball hits the posts and stays in, it is play on.

An NRL player shouldn't be able to do the same kick off twice in the same game - one from the right foot, one from the left foot, one legal short kick off that goes 10-15m, one legal mid kick off that has to go 15-30m, one long kick off that has to go 30-50m, one kick off that has to enter the in goal area. 2 points if you find touch from the kick off, 1 point if you hit the goal posts, 1 point if the receiving team knocks on.

Also, NRL should have time off when the ball is out of play i.e. after a try/goal FG is scored until the kick off, once the ball is over the sideline/dead ball until it is tapped/scrum of drop out.

Is there a thread on this sort of bullshit?

It’s a good idea for a thread

game changes to increase tv value.

obviously quarters has already been mentioned before

imagine 4 x 25 minute quarters

 

[LeagueXIII]

why? is western sydney full of people with large disposable cash amounts? As you can see from this map WA continues to have one of the largest disposable incomes in the country, I expect that's pretty valuable to advertisers?

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It's not as valuable as Western Sydney is it, otherwise the AFL wouldn't waste their money on GWS and the NRL would have a team in Perth. I for one would love a team in Perth but the powers that be just aren't interested, so it could be suggested that Perth isn't a high priority to them, why?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

When you bang on about tv deals, do you consider why there might be a difference based on first principles or just put it down to popularity?

What is the average total annual revenue for broadcast rights achieved by the NRL and AFL?

I would quiet comfortably say the AFL needs to be around 30% higher than the NRL to have any basis for bragging rights.

Broadcasters get more than 30% more TV time per AFL game and I would argue the AFL enables a lot more advertising opportunities via the number of stoppages and that after each goal there is a fixed time (conveniently about the time of an ad) before the umpires bounce the ball. The "more teams" argument is false, as the AFL only has 6 more games than the NRL per season.

	NRL	AFL	Difference
No. teams	16​	18​	2​	11%​
Squad size	30​	40​	10​	25%​
Salary cap	9,400,000​	13,540,000​	4,140,000​	31%​
Salary (avg)	313,333​	338,500​	25,167​	7%​
No. Games	192​	198​	6​	3%​
No. Finals	9​	9​	0​	0%​
Total games	201​	207​	6​	3%​
Game time (mins)	90​	120​	30​	25%​
Game breaks (mins)	10​	30​	20​	67%​
Pre/post game (mins)	20​	30​	10​	33%​
TV time per game (mins)	120​	180​	60​	33%​

The AFL squad size and cap are 25% and 31% higher than the NRL, so it would make sense the 33% increased broadcasting time should give them a higher result than the NRL based on some of the basic comparable metrics.

Best post on LU.

It's not as valuable as Western Sydney is it, otherwise the AFL wouldn't waste their money on GWS and the NRL would have a team in Perth. I for one would love a team in Perth but the powers that be just aren't interested, so it could be suggested that Perth isn't a high priority to them, why?

Isn't there talk of Perth fielding a third AwFuL club?

NBL has a club in Perth but none in Western Sydney.

 

[Perth Red]

It's not as valuable as Western Sydney is it, otherwise the AFL wouldn't waste their money on GWS and the NRL would have a team in Perth. I for one would love a team in Perth but the powers that be just aren't interested, so it could be suggested that Perth isn't a high priority to them, why?

Might be because RL is traditionally small minded and lacking vision? I mean we have hardly been blessed with great leadership the last 25 years! Then throw in the fact that decision making is seriously compromised by both media influence and club interference, who have been claiming they are broke since 1998 and therefore all the games money has to go to them, and voila you have a comp that bit for a brief moment in time 30 years ago has struggled to move beyond its own front gate.

 

[Perth Red]

Best post on LU.


Isn't there talk of Perth fielding a third AwFuL club?

NBL has a club in Perth but none in Western Sydney.

Every professional sport in the country has a team in perth except one lol. But yeh it’s not worth as much as western Sydney, you know cause western Sydneys such an affluent area. Must have been why the gws players were so keen to live there

 

[Wb1234]

Might be because RL is traditionally small minded and lacking vision? I mean we have hardly been blessed with great leadership the last 25 years! Then throw in the fact that decision making is seriously compromised by both media influence and club interference, who have been claiming they are broke since 1998 and therefore all the games money has to go to them, and voila you have a comp that bit for a brief moment in time 30 years ago has struggled to move beyond its own front gate.

I really missed seeing these types of rants

 

[MugaB]

I really missed seeing these types of rants

Those are the days of @Stallion

 

[Wb1234]

Those are the days of @Stallion

The saddest thing about Perth getting an nrl team is these rants will become rarer

I mean he can’t keep being like this when he gets a team can he ?

 

[Perth Red]

You’re ongoing interest in me remains as flattering as ever.

 

[MugaB]

You’re ongoing interest in me remains as flattering as ever.

Hey if it makes you happy, its a win for rugba lieg