Who Stays and Who Goes?

[ucantseeme]

Sheens vows heads will roll after Tigers' capitulation

http://www.leaguehq.com.au/news/lhq...s-back-on-track/2008/08/23/1219262611563.html
Will Swanton ANZ Stadium | August 24, 2008

Tigers 16 Sea Eagles 48
TIM SHEENS is about to grab a selection axe and start swinging it around like a madman until enough heads have rolled across the floor.
The Tigers' capitulation was staggering given their season was on the line, and sackings are imminent.
They remain a mathematical possibility of reaching the finals, but things are truly grim when you have become nothing more than a mathematical possibility. In reality, it means you are gone.
"We're going to have to move some players on, simple as that," Sheens said. "We're going to have to bring in some more people around the place in the next 12 to 18 months.
"Some people will be tapped on the shoulder. I said at the start of the season that this is a watershed year for the club.
"We can't finish this year waiting for potential to happen, waiting for players, even our own juniors who we thought might go to another level but haven't, it's time to bite the bullet and go look for some players to improve the club."
Sheens said the clean-out would be an 18- to 24-month process.
"You're not going to do it in 12 months," he said. "You're going to do it over two years. I've got two years left if I'm not hung out to dry.
"We're going to have to make a conscious decision of changing quite a few players in the club. I think it's pretty obvious, though, that the club needs to look hard at recruitment.
"We've stood by a lot of juniors, we've stood by a lot of players we've given time to grow up and get a bit more experience, but we had a kid out there tonight, Daine Laurie, who looked like he was on a different planet to the rest of our guys.
Asked if he was feeling pressure to keep his own job, Sheens replied: "There's always pressure, but that's not what I'm here to talk about."
....................................................................................................

So who stays and who goes? As for my thoughts on who gets a tap on the shoulder:

Bryce Gibbs (no impact as a prop)
John Morris (decent player but is utility not a specialist)
Dean Collis (so sick of people giving him massive raps because he was great in lower grades but has done nothing in the NRL)
Bronson Harrison (Built like Paul Gallen but without the mongrel factor)
Taniela Tuiaki (we need a winger with speed, he might move into the forwards, but he cannot stay on the wing)
Beau Ryan (has some strong charges but badly lacks discipline, too many error)
Corey Payne (Mr Invisible)

Let's be clear, Tim Sheens is not going anywhere til the end of his contract in 2 years time so it's no use saying get rid of the coach.

 

[TV Ted Ellery]

Sheens vows heads will roll after Tigers' capitulation

http://www.leaguehq.com.au/news/lhq...s-back-on-track/2008/08/23/1219262611563.html
Will Swanton ANZ Stadium | August 24, 2008

Tigers 16 Sea Eagles 48
TIM SHEENS is about to grab a selection axe and start swinging it around like a madman until enough heads have rolled across the floor.
The Tigers' capitulation was staggering given their season was on the line, and sackings are imminent.
They remain a mathematical possibility of reaching the finals, but things are truly grim when you have become nothing more than a mathematical possibility. In reality, it means you are gone.
"We're going to have to move some players on, simple as that," Sheens said. "We're going to have to bring in some more people around the place in the next 12 to 18 months.
"Some people will be tapped on the shoulder. I said at the start of the season that this is a watershed year for the club.
"We can't finish this year waiting for potential to happen, waiting for players, even our own juniors who we thought might go to another level but haven't, it's time to bite the bullet and go look for some players to improve the club."
Sheens said the clean-out would be an 18- to 24-month process.
"You're not going to do it in 12 months," he said. "You're going to do it over two years. I've got two years left if I'm not hung out to dry.
"We're going to have to make a conscious decision of changing quite a few players in the club. I think it's pretty obvious, though, that the club needs to look hard at recruitment.
"We've stood by a lot of juniors, we've stood by a lot of players we've given time to grow up and get a bit more experience, but we had a kid out there tonight, Daine Laurie, who looked like he was on a different planet to the rest of our guys.
Asked if he was feeling pressure to keep his own job, Sheens replied: "There's always pressure, but that's not what I'm here to talk about."
....................................................................................................

So who stays and who goes? As for my thoughts on who gets a tap on the shoulder:

Bryce Gibbs (no impact as a prop)
John Morris (decent player but is utility not a specialist)
Dean Collis (so sick of people giving him massive raps because he was great in lower grades but has done nothing in the NRL)
Bronson Harrison (Built like Paul Gallen but without the mongrel factor)
Taniela Tuiaki (we need a winger with speed, he might move into the forwards, but he cannot stay on the wing)
Beau Ryan (has some strong charges but badly lacks discipline, too many error)
Corey Payne (Mr Invisible)

Let's be clear, Tim Sheens is not going anywhere til the end of his contract in 2 years time so it's no use saying get rid of the coach.

Beau Ryan is prone to the occasional error but he's still miles ahead of Junior Burger and Tuiaki. I'd piss both of those guys off before contemplating any other changes to the outside backs.

 

[Seth Gecko]

Not a Tigers supporter but have always admired the potential the players have there.
Get rid of Sheens. He's had his day. He's a one trick pony and his trick is old. His post match was an indication he has nothing. 2005 was abit like the Australian economy riding high on the mining industry.
It aint 2005 and the mines are gone.

New coach and DEFINATELY a new recruitment man. Get some forwards. The basis is there apart from that.

 

[macnaz]

Not a Tigers supporter but have always admired the potential the players have there.
Get rid of Sheens. He's had his day. He's a one trick pony and his trick is old. His post match was an indication he has nothing. 2005 was abit like the Australian economy riding high on the mining industry.
It aint 2005 and the mines are gone.

New coach and DEFINATELY a new recruitment man. Get some forwards. The basis is there apart from that.

As much as id like to get rid of Sheens..the answer is we Cant!! Just like $bw was on a contract...so is Sheens, if the club sacks him they are just as bad as SBW for not honouring a contract. A coach swap maybe is the only answer, but it would never happen.

 

[Once Dead]

Bronson Harrison - has been given many chances but never reached his potential

Corey Payne - never showed anything

Bryce Gibbs - a penalty machine who also never lived up to the hype that came with him from his junior days

Ryan O'Hara - biggest waste of time in the last 3 years

and now for the one that people won't be happy with....

Liam Fulton - unlimited potential but nothing above average in a long time

 

[Once Dead]

Oh and how could I forget John Morris? From the day he was signed I knew that he was going to play half and he was going to do it badly as he was squeezed out of Newcastle because he is a hooker, went to Parra as a hooker and came to us as a hooker who Sheens thought could somehow play half.

 

[macnaz]

Liam Fulton,, I think size is always going to be his downfall playing in the forwards and his lack of speed limits him in the backline. I dont mind the bloke as he tries but he dosent fulfill our needs so its a big cya later i rekon.

 

[Seth Gecko]

As much as id like to get rid of Sheens..the answer is we Cant!! Just like $bw was on a contract...so is Sheens, if the club sacks him they are just as bad as SBW for not honouring a contract. A coach swap maybe is the only answer, but it would never happen.

It's different with coaches though. Long term lack of success they often fall on their sword. Sheens should.

 

[mightydragon]

I dont think Warren will boot his own son.

 

[rupertpupkin]

...

 

[super_coach]

Changes had to be made 18months ago,to punt players now with nothing of quality on the market is a big call. We are now back to square one,the building process has to start again,we have to pay overs for quality as every manager knows we are in trouble.

We are now behind every club in the league for 2009, clubs like the cowboys and the dogs have been busy in the market place buying players to try and turn their fortunes around for 2009. If we are lucky we might be able to lure peter lewis back to the club.

Football isnt rocket science to win matches you need four props and a quality no9 no7 and no1 and rest good big units with desire. Well come 2009 we have the no9 and 1 prop.

Sheens has to be the first to go, just maybe some new ideas might spark a few of our under performing playing roster along. Sure maybe some of our 20 back rowers and 10 outside backs should be shown the door but lets start with the gronk who drove the ship onto the rocks in the first place

 

[Wobbygong]

Sheens is the first one I'd punt, he ran out of ideas after the Bradbury effort in 2005.

 

[ucantseeme]

Considering we have 2 NSW Cup teams when other sides have one gives us a ready pool to draw from. Shannon Gallant has shown he can step up to NRL level. There's bound to be a few more. Just look at Daine Laurie.

 

[TV Ted Ellery]

Sheens is the first one I'd punt, he ran out of ideas after the Bradbury effort in 2005.

The Bradbury label is more befitting of the Brisbane side that won the grand final the following year.

In 2005, the Tigers just happened to be in the best form at the right time. St George, Brisbane & Parramatta played well at times during the year although they hardly dominated in a manner to suggest that they had a moral claim to the title.

To use a tennis analogy, the Tigers victory in 2005 was akin to Pat Rafter's & Leighton Hewitt's brief time at the top. Those guys were fortuitous to achieve some success in between the Sampras & now Federer-dominated periods. Similarly, the Tigers experienced a run of golden form just as the Bulldogs and Roosters were failing and before the emergence of Melbourne & Manly.

 

[Navjot]

Didnt you know tv ted all premierships are flukes or bradburys ya know, just ask the likes of sharks or dragons fans theyll tell ya, and others cant wait for the day if they ever get one and see if they like the fluke or bradbury tag after it, i know i will let rip.

 

[Navjot]

Jealousy is a curse plain and simple.

 

[Cletus]

Didnt you know tv ted all premierships are flukes or bradburys ya know, just ask the likes of sharks or dragons fans theyll tell ya, and others cant wait for the day if they ever get one and see if they like the fluke or bradbury tag after it, i know i will let rip.

There's usually a bit of luck in any premiership, lack of injuries, players peaking at the same time etc. It wasn't a fluke but if you think about the Tigers earlier in 2005 and they were sh*t. They had they same problem as now, they couldn't tackle. During the finals they increased their line speed massively and kept teams on the back foot by scoring points from their own twenty. Everything clicked, it was like the Warriors in 2003, all their passes stuck. I don't think it was a fluke but it's hard to repeat that, most of the time those great passes don't stick.

It still doesn't explain the ineptitude the Tigers have displayed in the interceding years, Sheens has to go, the players obviously don't respect him any more.

 

[Vicious]

Some of you blokes are on bad drugs !
Shannon McDonnell didn`t play last night and has not played in any of the heartless performances that the team has produced this season. The last 2 weeks is the proof in the pudding that we have far worse problems than Shannon McDonnell.
The comment about John Morris is spot on, he`s a good competitive hooker, but we have a better hooker in Robbie Farah and it`s no point paying over $200,000 per season for a back up hooker. Dene Halatau is in the same boat, those who reckon Liam Fulton should be one to go, have a good look at Halatau first and explain to me what he offers that Fulton doesn`t ??? I`d look at punting Dean Collis. Plenty of ability, but doesn`t put his body on the line as we need, open the cheque book and try and sign Matt King, Michael Monaghan and the biggest and best prop we can find !

 

[TV Ted Ellery]

There's usually a bit of luck in any premiership, lack of injuries, players peaking at the same time etc. It wasn't a fluke but if you think about the Tigers earlier in 2005 and they were sh*t.

They weren't entirely hopeless, but rather inconsistent. I remember successive victories over Bulldogs & Roosters that foreshadowed the brilliant attacking style they would master later in the year. At the same time, they were prone to defensive lapses, although it was apparent to the supporters that the Tigers had an extremely capable squad. This year, in contrast, the Tigers have never competed against the better sides and al our wins have come against lowly teams (Souths, Bulldogs & Cowboys) and over-performing teams of moderate skill (Cronulla, St George, a depleted-Newcastle).

 

[Magpies Forever]

For my 2 cents worth I reckon-

Ask to quit as they obviously no longer have the respect / ability to influence the players:

Sheens and Simmons

Really put player recruitment under the microscope but we need to tease outt he horrible recruitment policies we ahve had for some years now- was it Sheens making do with whoever McDonnell could sign, or was McDonnell signing specific position requests for Sheens eg 2nd rowers.

I have not mentioned the players already leaving at years end but here are the others

Out:

Galea, Head, Metuiselia, O'Hara, Payne, Trimarchi.

Have to Justify Retention:

Fulton, Gibbs, Harrison, Halatau, Marshall, (can have either Fulton / Halatau- but cant have 2 small back rowers but I'd retain Halatau at the expense of Fulton as he has greater versatility). I have bolded the ones I'd ask to leave. Iffy about Marshall - I just dont know.

As said in an earlier post we have left it too late to bid for many players that were on the market, and to be fair to the players we have marked as on the out, it will be hard for them but there is the opportunity of the 2 new ESL clubs if this is done early enough.