Why does rugby league have trouble expanding internationally compared to other codes

[ParraEelsNRL]

Origin gets 4 times the ratings and crowds a test would get. That seems to be the main problem, most fans would rather their state beat the other state than their country beat another country/.

No they don't. Not when played prime time.

I have seen the Anzac test rate 1.8 million without a thenth of the promotion soo gets. As usual you state things to be a troll or push an agenda. 1.8 million on TV and 30,000 at the ground being only a quarter of soo would make those soo games the most watched shows on TV in aus ever let along the needed 120,000 plus capacity stadium needed to cram everybody in. And that 1.8 was against nz, you get the POM's out here playing winning footy and the ratings will eventually punish soo figures again as they used to.

 

[Valheru]

As has been stated in this thread the likes of Ireland and Scotland have never defeated the all blacks, well that list just decreased by one overnight with the all blacks losing to Ireland.

RL has made strides in terms of spreading the game in recent years but we are way behind in terms of top level competition. I can't imagine the kangaroos losing in a fit to anyone other than NZ and possibly England on their day (in England) in the foreseeable future.

 

[adamkungl]

Rugby League's biggest hopes of being considered top tier, aka a realistic hope of winning a WC, in any of our lifetimes, are still France, PNG, and Wales. They all have a long way to go and a lot of issues, but it isn't impossible with some smart work from the RLIF and the countries themselves.

 

[Knownothing]

As has been stated in this thread the likes of Ireland and Scotland have never defeated the all blacks, well that list just decreased by one overnight with the all blacks losing to Ireland.

And the game was played in Chicago in front of a sold-out stadium of 62,000 spectators.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Talk about it in the union section please.

 

[docbrown]

As has been stated in this thread the likes of Ireland and Scotland have never defeated the all blacks, well that list just decreased by one overnight with the all blacks losing to Ireland.

RL has made strides in terms of spreading the game in recent years but we are way behind in terms of top level competition. I can't imagine the kangaroos losing in a fit to anyone other than NZ and possibly England on their day (in England) in the foreseeable future.

I don't deny your assessment of the Kangaroos' performance and I think overcoming that is a big key to the puzzle.

Some people might look at Ireland's victory and drool with envy about Union's competitiveness.
Or you could consider the fact that Wales beats New Zealand on average once every 111 years...

Again - it's about perception. You'll see what you want to see.

 

[Pedge1971]

Maybe because of people like Mr Happy the England coach.......way to spread the word Wayno.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04f9ltl

 

[Stallion]

Yep..struggling

I do like the improvement in numbers but are these fledgling rugby league competitions about to boom into taking over the imagination of the locals(just like in France in 1941?BTW rugby league still isn't played as a sport in any French school) which has, in the past,used various means to limit / stop the development of rugby league? It may look good in numbers but is their genuine exponential growth on its way or is the hard slog and tricks about to conspire against the code as seen in other countries?

 

[BODISGOD]

I'll add one more: perception. The Kangaroos & All Blacks are basically the equivalent of each other in their respective sports.

Scotland are ranked 8th on the IRB & RLIF rankings

In Union: Scotland vs Australia 9 wins, 20 loses, 0 draws 11.5 to 24.3 avg pts
In Union: Scotland vs New Zealand 0 wins, 28 loses, 2 draws 11 to 30 avg pts

So Scotland lose by 19 points on average to the All Blacks and have never won a game. Yes, Scotland have won games against other Union countries but so have the League side. In terms of the number of competitive countries Union still has the advantage but things like the All Blacks dominance are treated with awe whereas the Kangaroos are treated with disdain...

Because they actually play rugby union in Scotland. There is a stadium of 68k people, built in the early 90s as what was one of the finest stadiums in Britain at the time, owned by the Scottish Rugby Union (same goes for the other Home Unions). There is a traditional player base. There are traditional clubs and schools who play it. There are moments like the 1990 Grand Slam game which live long in the Scottish sporting memory. Heartbreak like Gavin Hastings missing a shot at goal in 1991 to get to the world cup final. Ian McGeechan, Jim Telfer, Bill McClaren, the Hastings boys - these are famous names in not just Scottish sport but British sport as a whole.

You aren't comparing like with like. There is a tradition with Scottish rugby union which is what gives the All Blacks record prestige. What does Scottish rugby league have? You are talking about a niche offering here. The reason nobody makes the comparison is because rugby league is tiny in Scotland.

 

[BODISGOD]

Excellent post, you can throw Ireland in also as they have never beaten the All Blacks in over 100 years of trying and Wales haven't beaten them for 63 years.

Saying union is global is really just a marketing strategy. All union people sing from the same page constantly saying it's global and world rugby, like back in the amateur days they use to spew out that they play for "love not money".

The game is not huge in India, China, Brazil, Pakistan, Indonesia etc. Yes it is bigger than league. Even their claims of European rugby are pretty empty, take out the southern French teams and the British teams and it looks pretty small fry.

Even in England and Scotland where are the big city clubs from Sheffield, Leeds, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow and Newcastle etc.

Why do the Wallabies always go to the UK and France if the game is global?

What union has done effectively is grown their world cup since 1987 to fund the growth of their code, which is exactly what rugby league is now trying to do. Remember the union WC semi in 1987 was played at Concord Oval. RL is at about the early 90's RUWC level but we have had the news recently that the 2025 RLWC is likely to be played in North America which has huge growth possibilities for our sport. Look at the growth financially and organisationally of our WC tournament from 2000 to 2013.

In this deacde the Australian XV team have played outside Australia in;

- Auckland, Wellington
- Cape Town, Johannesburg
- Dublin
- Cardiff
- Edinburgh
- London
- Paris
- Rome, Turin
- Buenos Aires, Mendoza,
- Hong Kong
- Tokyo
- Chicago

And drawn large crowds, consistently. The reason why they draw isn't because of "marketing" or solely one off events, it's because in most of these countries the game is played or followed at a domestic level in large enough numbers. The reason why Scotland draws 68k versus the All Blacks despite losing all the time is because Scotland has domestic rugby union of schools and clubs and a tradition in the sport on a national level. The reason why the Kangaroos versus Scotland drew 5k is because rugby league is tiny in Scotland. If it was a big enough sport with people who cared about Scotland's record versus the Kangaroos they could rent out Murrayfield, Hampden Park, Celtic Park or Ibrox and fill it every few years to play. Instead it was only played in the heartlands of rugby league in England and couldn't draw.

 

[docbrown]

Because they actually play rugby union in Scotland. There is a stadium of 68k people, built in the early 90s as what was one of the finest stadiums in Britain at the time, owned by the Scottish Rugby Union (same goes for the other Home Unions). There is a traditional player base. There are traditional clubs and schools who play it. There are moments like the 1990 Grand Slam game which live long in the Scottish sporting memory. Heartbreak like Gavin Hastings missing a shot at goal in 1991 to get to the world cup final. Ian McGeechan, Jim Telfer, Bill McClaren, the Hastings boys - these are famous names in not just Scottish sport but British sport as a whole.

You aren't comparing like with like. There is a tradition with Scottish rugby union which is what gives the All Blacks record prestige. What does Scottish rugby league have? You are talking about a niche offering here. The reason nobody makes the comparison is because rugby league is tiny in Scotland.

Was anyone saying that rugby union doesn't exist in Scotland? The reality is that after 100+ years in most areas their grassroots/domestic development is losing ground to soccer. Rugby league only has a 20 year presence and the scores in the 4 Nations are reasonable based on that logic.

I've never said that perception is the only issue but that it hadn't been mentioned so far. But considering your rose coloured view of Scottish rugby union you're highlighting why it's so important.

 

[BODISGOD]

Was anyone saying that rugby union doesn't exist in Scotland? The reality is that after 100+ years in most areas their grassroots/domestic development is losing ground to soccer. Rugby league only has a 20 year presence and the scores in the 4 Nations are reasonable based on that logic.

I've never said that perception is the only issue but that it hadn't been mentioned so far. But considering your rose coloured view of Scottish rugby union you're highlighting why it's so important.

It isn't a rose coloured view.

I said the record is an embarrassment. But it's an embarrassment because rugby union DOES exist in a meaningful way in Scotland. People care because of that.

Scottish RL sadly is just bloody tiny, and nobody cares. It isn't perception, the Scottish RL squad is full of heritage players. There isn't much a domestic structure. You are moaning about a perception difference within RL and outside RL to Scotland RL's record vs the Kangaroos vs their record in union versus the All Blacks, but it is a pointless comparison. The ABs record is something they want to overturn, their isn't a clamour to overturn the Kangaroos record.

 

[latingringo101]

It comes down to several factors really.

Union did have (and in some places around the world today) still roadblock RL growth. Banning it from private schools, army, navy etc didn't help it either.

Rugby League itself can be to blame because they've never really had a true International federation to administer the game. There's been places who have started the game up and been ignored by the RLIF for ages and recieved no support.

They also never thought Union would have the ability to turn Pro and when it did it stopped Aus/NZ and UK clubs buying the best talent of the XV player code.

RL has improved a lot in promotion and support of the game world wide however a lot more can be done to help grow the sport.

 

[Knownothing]

It's all about priorities. The international aspects of rugby union have always been more important than local competitions, at least in my lifetime.


The reverse applies in rugby league.


As for rugby union putting up road blocks against a rival sport with the same name, why on earth wouldn't they?

 

[Teddyboy]

The thing connected to Scotland and Rugby League together is the past numbers of players who went over to turn pro and mostly from the Borders.

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

It's all about priorities. The international aspects of rugby union have always been more important than local competitions, at least in my lifetime.


The reverse applies in rugby league.


As for rugby union putting up road blocks against a rival sport with the same name, why on earth wouldn't they?

If the NRL put up roadblocks on the ARU there would be outrage, but since it's union putting up block on league is just fine then. No other sport had to deal with roadblocks placed in front of them by another code like RL has over the decades.

 

[Knownothing]

Outrage? Most people could not care less. But in the very unlikely event that the NRL could be bothered to do something naughty, the ARU would of course seek legal redress.


If a sport or a business, or an individual does something that is prejudicial to the interests of another sport, business, or individual, the injured party should seek legal redress. All civilised countries have a legal system. It is there to be used.

 

[BODISGOD]

If the NRL put up roadblocks on the ARU there would be outrage, but since it's union putting up block on league is just fine then. No other sport had to deal with roadblocks placed in front of them by another code like RL has over the decades.

The ignorance of the world around you is cute.

 

[taipan]

Outrage? Most people could not care less. But in the very unlikely event that the NRL could be bothered to do something naughty, the ARU would of course seek legal redress.


If a sport or a business, or an individual does something that is prejudicial to the interests of another sport, business, or individual, the injured party should seek legal redress. All civilised countries have a legal system. It is there to be used.

Have you kept up to speed on what happened in France in 1941.The French Govt in their Commission into Sport under Vichy ,pointed the finger at union for trying to destroy rl.Hardly being naught yea downright sporting disgrace and sporting bastardly at its worst.
No reparations made.The FRU got off scot free.

 

[taipan]

The ignorance of the world around you is cute.

If there is ignorance about putting up sporting roadblocks,union tragcis are at the top of the list.