Why ignore our history?

[Saint_JimmyG]

Joint venture, not merger.

Could luck in getting Muzby to understand the difference.

 

[Willow]

Thanks Willow

Okay when you say different now?
What has changed ? and why did the change occur?

From late 1998-2005 the major stakeholders in the Joint Venture were St George Dragons and Illawarra Steelers.
2006 - late 2018: It was St George 50%, Illawarra 25%, WIN Corp 25%
2019-?: St George 50%, WIN Corp 50%.

Why? Because Illawarra are financially strapped. Since the first JV was signed in 1998 they have either been in debt to St George or WIN Corp, or both.

 

[muzby]

Could luck in getting Muzby to understand the difference.

Hi fanboi

 

[muzby]

The question has been answered but maybe the answer doesn't suit you.

No, you haven’t answered the question.
Does Germany have a nazi culture in the present day because they have the whole nazi issue in their past?

Just a simple yes or no.

Let me break it down for you further so you can understand the concept.

This should be fun..

Australia day is celebrated every year - in the present.

That’s a highly contentious statement, the day itself marks a point where land was stolen from another race of people. It’s hardly “celebrated” by everyone, with some local government areas refusing to acknowledge it due to it’s date..

On one side you have pissed bogans “celebrating” and on the other side the claim of invasion day.. Two very different cultures there..

Being Australian has evolved through our history.
Captain Cook, Colonization, Federation, 2 world wars, Vietnam, Being a member of the Commonwealth, English language that we speak today and so on.

That’s an extremely whitewashed view.. The aboriginal culture is the longest continuous culture in the world, and whilst colonisation saw a massive impact to their numbers and where they live, they have retained their culture through all of that..

But speaking of colonialism, given that involved taking land that wasn’t theirs, does this mean that our present day culture maintains this behaviour? Or have we adapted?

One key area you left out of Australia’s history was the white Australia policy, as well as the fact we only acknowledged the aboriginals as Australians in the 1960’s... We had a massively racist culture before this.. You’d say this has changed, no?

Interesting you mention wars in your list - compare and contrast the public attitude to both signing up to fight, and the treatment of returned soldiers, between WWI and Vietnam.

What changed there?

While all those elements commenced in the past, they are part of our present day existence and culture.
Hope that makes it easier for you Musby.

I think the word you wanted to use there was occurred, not commenced.

Anyway, where was I? That’s right. Germany.. Please answer the Germany question.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

No, you haven’t answered the question.
Does Germany have a nazi culture in the present day because they have the whole nazi issue in their past?

Just a simple yes or no.

This should be fun..

That’s a highly contentious statement, the day itself marks a point where land was stolen from another race of people. It’s hardly “celebrated” by everyone, with some local government areas refusing to acknowledge it due to it’s date..

On one side you have pissed bogans “celebrating” and on the other side the claim of invasion day.. Two very different cultures there..


That’s an extremely whitewashed view.. The aboriginal culture is the longest continuous culture in the world, and whilst colonisation saw a massive impact to their numbers and where they live, they have retained their culture through all of that..

But speaking of colonialism, given that involved taking land that wasn’t theirs, does this mean that our present day culture maintains this behaviour? Or have we adapted?

One key area you left out of Australia’s history was the white Australia policy, as well as the fact we only acknowledged the aboriginals as Australians in the 1960’s... We had a massively racist culture before this.. You’d say this has changed, no?

Interesting you mention wars in your list - compare and contrast the public attitude to both signing up to fight, and the treatment of returned soldiers, between WWI and Vietnam.

What changed there?


I think the word you wanted to use there was occurred, not commenced.

Anyway, where was I? That’s right. Germany.. Please answer the Germany question.

Musby
You consistently take the debate out of context - on purpose.
That is your modus operandi especially when your misguided sensationalism fails.
That is what you are doing here and there is no point in me responding because what you are spouting and what I was demonstrating are two different things.
If you can't have a sensible and objective discussion then don't engage.
Now to answer your glib question about whether Germany has a Nazi Culture.
In general no, but Nazism still exists especially in East Germany and is represented politically as well.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

I think It would be a better conversation if both of you could argue your points without the accompanying bitterness.

It’s just lazy to resort to superfluous unkindness and puts us viewers off.

The jury remains hung gentlemen.

 

[Willow]

In general no but Nazism still exists especially in East Germany and is represented politically as well.

I'm curious, why would you think neo-nazi political groups are more likely to gain traction in East Germany? Especially given that East Germany was under communist control until the end of the Cold War.

 

[muzby]

Musby
You consistently take the debate out of context - on purpose.
That is your modus operandi especially when your misguided sensationalism fails.
That is what you are doing here and there is no point in me responding because what you are spouting and what I was demonstrating are two different things.
If you can't have a sensible and objective discussion then don't engage.
Now to answer you glib question about whether Germany has a Nazi Culture.
In general no but Nazism still exists especially in East Germany and is represented politically as well.

So, I’m short you agree that Germany doesn’t have a nazi culture, despite their nazi history..

What’s changed? Culture. Not history.

So finally being able to link it back to the initial discussion.. St George previously had a history of success, but no success recently..

What’s changed? Culture.

The history of success is still there..

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Hi fanboi

 

[SaintPauli]

From late 1998-2005 the major stakeholders in the Joint Venture were St George Dragons and Illawarra Steelers.
2006 - late 2018: It was St George 50%, Illawarra 25%, WIN Corp 25%
2019-?: St George 50%, WIN Corp 50%.

Why? Because Illawarra are financially strapped. Since the first JV was signed in 1998 they have either been debt to St George or WIN Corp, or both.

Thankyou for clarity.
Hypothetically, if St George buy wincorp out or if wincorp sells its company to an offshore investor or if they go broke! Do St George dragons get their full identity back and then be able to add to its last grand final win of 1979?

 

[muzby]

Thankyou for clarity.
Hypothetically, if St St George buy wincorp out or if wincorp sells its company to an offshore investor or if they go broke! Do St George dragons get their full identity back and then be able to add to its last grand final win of 1979?

As an entity, St George can already claim 16 premierships.

15 won whilst holding a stand-alone licence to compete in the NSWRL, 1 won whilst being joint venture partners with Illawarra to hold the licence to compete in the NRL.

It won’t matter what happens to the other partner in future..

 

[SaintPauli]

As an entity, St George can already claim 16 premierships.

15 won whilst holding a stand-alone licence to compete in the NSWRL, 1 won whilst being joint venture partners with Illawarra to hold the licence to compete in the NRL.

It won’t matter what happens to the other partner in future..

The issue as i see it, is the NRL donnot see us as an entity. I.e the website separates us by titles etc

 

[muzby]

The issue as i see it is the NRL donnot see us as an entity. I.e the website separates us by titles etc

The NRL looks at who holds the current licence for first grade..

St George Rugby League Football Club still exist as an legal and physical entity..

 

[SaintPauli]

If that is the case, then why do NRL show 15 titles not 16?

The NRL looks at who holds the current licence for first grade..

St George Rugby League Football Club still exist as an legal and physical entity..

 

[muzby]

If that is the case, then why do NRL show 15 titles not 16?

Let’s ask a man much smarter than me:

The NRL looks at who holds the current licence for first grade..

And what does that mean?

15 won whilst holding a stand-alone licence to compete in the NSWRL, 1 won whilst being joint venture partners with Illawarra to hold the licence to compete in the NRL.

Thank you, you wise and beautiful man..

you’re welcome, you sexy beast..

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

I think It would be a better conversation if both of you could argue your points without the accompanying bitterness.

It’s just lazy to resort to superfluous unkindness and puts us viewers off.

The jury remains hung gentlemen.

Bitterness? I think you have misread the situation.
Debates with Musby are always one sided.
He loves the parry and thrust no matter how askew his arguments are.
In his mind he always wins the argument.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

I'm curious, why would you think neo-nazi political groups are more likely to gain traction in East Germany? Especially given that East Germany was under communist control until the end of the Cold War.

Historically you are 100% correct but most of the New Nazi activity today emanates from East Germany.

 

[muzby]

Bitterness? I think you have misread the situation.
Debates with Musby are always one sided.
He loves the parry and thrust no matter how askew his arguments are.
In his mind he always wins the argument.

Why does it have to be about “winning”?

A good discussion can help all parties to understand differing viewpoints..

Culture and history are two separate things, but do have an influence upon each other. But you can’t change history, only culture..

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Bitterness? I think you have misread the situation.
Debates with Musby are always one sided.
He loves the parry and thrust no matter how askew his arguments are.
In his mind he always wins the argument.

Well that’s your view (and fair enough) but my view would be that some of what he submits is right and some of what he puts is wrong.

I was considering your side of the point this morning and I throw down the challenge to the muzster and ask that if history and culture is different, how come we have the academic discipline of cultural history?

Cultural historians look at and interpret changes in a particular culture over time.

They are inseparable in this context.

There would be a lot of material arising from examining changes in aboriginal cultures say after 1788 to date.

As an aside, there’s a story today about the hordes of idiot tourists desecrating Uluru before it’s “closed.”

One piece of ( non aboriginal) cultural history best binned! I look at these photos and I just get the urge to push these brain dead philistine red necks off the rock or take sniper shots at them ( rubber bullets, no horror please!)

I might take up the muzsters side of the argument tommorrow!

 

[muzby]

I was considering your side of the point this morning and I throw down the challenge to the muzster and ask that if history and culture is different, how come we have the academic discipline of cultural history?

Cultural historians look at and interpret changes in a particular culture over time.

They are inseparable in this context.

Not quite inseparable. You have noted culture changes over time, and the historical study of these changes is looking at what has already occurred in times past, to which point those changes can’t be erased - they are now part of history.

Culture is the element that changes, not the history.