Why ignore our history?

[muzby]

Wont change the records books.

You mean you can’t change history?


Oh wait.. that’s what I’ve been saying

 

[SaintPauli]

I get your point about the JV, however, if we adopt the (Saints have 16 and Illawarra have 1) viewpoint, that would mean as a collective we have won 17 titles...

As fans, we can argue your point, but I think history will record it as 15 and 1.

15 stg and 1 stgi is shown on following;
NRL
Fox nrl
Zero tackle
My point is by seperating this, Stg cannot add any more premierships or accolades to their history. I can only interpret this is a sellout to a great historical club and many many generations of fans who have been duped by NRL.

It really needs clarity and fixing prior 2021 (100 years )? Otherwise 100 year celebrations actually do not exist and stg ceased in 1998, the year of the JV.

 

[muzby]

15 stg and 1 stgi is shown on following;
NRL
Fox nrl
Zero tackle
My point is by seperating this, Stg cannot add any more premierships or accolades to their history.

15 Stg and 1 Stgi is correct..

It’s still 16 for St George..

 

[SaintPauli]

15 Stg and 1 Stgi is correct..

It’s still 16 for St George..

You need to look at the premiership ladder to understand my point on nrl, fox and zero tackle.

Stg is second to souths on 15 GFs
Rorters 3rd on 14 and catching up!
Stgi way down the list on 1

The point is the rorters will pass stg
sooner than later and stg will NEVER add to their tally.

To look at it with rose-colored glasses does not stack up with me. NEVER WILL.

 

[muzby]

You need to look at the premiership ladder to understand my point on nrl, fox and zero taxkle.

Stg is second to souths on 15 GFs
Rorters 3rd on 14 and catching up!
Stgi way down the list on 1

The point is the rorters will pass stg
sooner than later and sgt will NEVER add to their tally.

To look at it with rose-colored glasses does not stack up with me. NEVER WILL.

You seem to be basing your reality on three separate websites..

Why are you letting them control your emotions like that?

 

[SaintPauli]

You seem to be basing your reality on three separate websites..

Why are you letting them control your emotions like that?

Its completely wrong and as i said many generations of fans have been duped. In fact the same can be said for past players of this great club. Its the NRL website that is most concerning.
They are the body running the game. They off all people should get it right.

 

[muzby]

Its completely wrong and as i said many generations of fans have been duped. In fact the same can be said for past players of this great club. Its the NRL website that is most concerning.
They are the body running the game. They off all shoud get it right.

So your gripe, as it appears, is the accuracy of a website..

Have you voiced your concerns to their webmaster?

 

[Willow]

I get your point about the JV, however, if we adopt the (Saints have 16 and Illawarra have 1) viewpoint, that would mean as a collective we have won 17 titles...

As fans, we can argue your point, but I think history will record it as 15 and 1.

Your maths would be valid if it was a merger where both sides lost their old identities. But again... it is not a merger, it is a joint venture. And again and again... Statisticians are not historians.

Are you saying that Illawarra have never won a premiership? Illawarra supporters most definitely celebrated 2010 as their first premiership. For a while the trophy adorned the foyer of Steelers Leagues Club. Numerous publications called it their maiden premiership. Who is saying that this never happened?

Does the St George (Leagues and Football) Club still exist? The answer is yes. Just like the Steelers, St George is a separate Club.

Did the St George Club celebrate the 2010 premiership? Yes again. And just like the Steelers, the trophy was proudly displayed in the foyer at the Taj. And just like the Steelers, Saints added the premiership to their tally.

We have won 16 premierships. It is there, and has been recorded in history and published in the Club's records.

 

[Willow]

15 stg and 1 stgi is shown on following;
NRL
Fox nrl
Zero tackle
My point is by seperating this, Stg cannot add any more premierships or accolades to their history. I can only interpret this is a sellout to a great historical club and many many generations of fans who have been duped by NRL.

It really needs clarity and fixing prior 2021 (100 years )? Otherwise 100 year celebrations actually do not exist and stg ceased in 1998, the year of the JV.

Zero tackle? With respect, Leagueunlimited is a larger website.

Talking of which...
St George Illawarra Dragons
Established 1921. Coach: Paul McGregor. Premierships: 1941, 1949, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1977, 1979, 2010.
Link

Club Records
Entered Premiership:
St George Dragons: 1921
Illawarra Steelers: 1982
St George Illawarra Dragons: 1999
Premiership Winners:
Total: 16
Seasons: 1941, 1949, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1977 1979, 2010
Link

Plus, look at my sig file.

The point is, you can go cherry-picking the internet looking for websites to support any view.

I agree that the NRL website needs to rectify this and Saints should be pressuring them to do so.

But I'm pretty sure WE won premierships in the 1970s, I personally witnessed both grand finals in 1977 at the SCG. And in 2010 I personally witnessed the premiership at Homebush. It felt like I was supporting the same Club. St George were there, right?. Why did the ground announcer keep recalling our last won premiership in 1979? Why did the NRL CEO acknowledge our history and past premierships? Why did WE call it our 16th premiership? Did I imagine all this? Was it just a dream?

 

[muzby]

Did I imagine all this? Was it just a dream?

That depends - were you wearing pants?

 

[Willow]

That depends - were you wearing pants?

I was celebrating at the time, so anything was possible.

 

[SEAT 1A]

1. Sydney Roosters Member Loyalty Patches
   
   
   
   
   Saw this in the 2020 membership thread. I just don't get how our club doesn't embrace our history. How good would it be to add St George, Illawarra and STGI greatest players in this form and the club has endless opportunities.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

You need to look at the premiership ladder to understand my point on nrl, fox and zero tackle.

Stg is second to souths on 15 GFs
Rorters 3rd on 14 and catching up!
Stgi way down the list on 1

The point is the rorters will pass stg
sooner than later and stg will NEVER add to their tally.

To look at it with rose-colored glasses does not stack up with me. NEVER WILL.

Except if private ownership weighs in and re-instates St. George as a stand alone entity.
Unlikely I know but something to wish for.

 

[TruSaint]

Your maths would be valid if it was a merger where both sides lost their old identities. But again... it is not a merger, it is a joint venture. And again and again... Statisticians are not historians.

Are you saying that Illawarra have never won a premiership? Illawarra supporters most definitely celebrated 2010 as their first premiership. For a while the trophy adorned the foyer of Steelers Leagues Club. Numerous publications called it their maiden premiership. Who is saying that this never happened?

Does the St George (Leagues and Football) Club still exist? The answer is yes. Just like the Steelers, St George is a separate Club.

Did the St George Club celebrate the 2010 premiership? Yes again. And just like the Steelers, the trophy was proudly displayed in the foyer at the Taj. And just like the Steelers, Saints added the premiership to their tally.

We have won 16 premierships. It is there, and has been recorded in history and published in the Club's records.

We can debate the merger / JV all day long. In relation to where it stands in terms of history and records.

We can agree that BOTH Saints and Steeler fans celebrated the win in 2010.

I never said that Statisticians are Historians. I stated that in years to come, the records will clearly differentiate between the achievements of a stand alone Saints entity and that of the JV.

The fact that we, as Saints tragics are even discussing this, would suggest so.
That's why following a team / club is so personal. To me, and as evidence from all of the merchandise in my home, its sweet sixteen.

 

[muzby]

Cat amongst the pigeons....

If WIN was to buy out St George Leagues Club, keep the colours, jersey, 6 games at Kogarah, but call the team the Southern Dragons, do they keep the 15 titles?

 

[TruSaint]

Cat amongst the pigeons....

If WIN was to buy out St George Leagues Club, keep the colours, jersey, 6 games at Kogarah, but call the team the Southern Dragons, do they keep the 15 titles?

If it was a buyout, then the Saints history ends there. 15 titles.

As such, being totally owned by WIN, that any titles thereafter would have no relevance to Saints. Their history ended at the buyout and any new premiership would be under the Southern Dragons franchise.

It may well be referred to in nostalgic terms, but would have no substance in records.

 

[muzby]

If it was a buyout, then the Saints history ends there. 15 titles.

As such, being totally owned by WIN, that any titles thereafter would have no relevance to Saints. Their history ended at the buyout and any new premiership would be under the Southern Dragons franchise.

It may well be referred to in nostalgic terms, but would have no substance in records.

Why not?

If you acquire an organisation you buy everything about them.. Their assets, their customers, their history..

Essentially an acquisition means you are just the new owner..

 

[Willow]

We can debate the merger / JV all day long. In relation to where it stands in terms of history and records.

Well there's no debate on your words "merger / JV." It is a JV. It is not a merger - never was.

Unfortunately people will make mistakes and call it a merger, that's OK because we are human and sometimes unaware. But there's no logic to persisting with the word merger when the difference has been pointed out.

We can agree that BOTH Saints and Steeler fans celebrated the win in 2010.

I never said that Statisticians are Historians.

Good, so there'll be no more of this 16 + 1 stuff, because that's how statisticians think when trying to deny us our history.

I stated that in years to come, the records will clearly differentiate between the achievements of a stand alone Saints entity and that of the JV.

The fact that we, as Saints tragics are even discussing this, would suggest so.
That's why following a team / club is so personal. To me, and as evidence from all of the merchandise in my home, its sweet sixteen.

We'll see how history pans out.

 

[TruSaint]

Why not?

If you acquire an organisation you buy everything about them.. Their assets, their customers, their history..

Essentially an acquisition means you are just the new owner..

Thats absolutely true.

My concern would be that after being totally bought out, with no input from STG FC, that the club we follow could well become unrecognisable. But as you say, the assets, history, customers etc, all are owned by the new organization.

If, as an example, the Southern Dragons decided to revamp our logo, colours, jersey etc, nothing would stop them doing so. For future generations, it may actually be a wise move.

Anyway, all hypotheticals.

 

[Willow]

Cat amongst the pigeons....

If WIN was to buy out St George Leagues Club, keep the colours, jersey, 6 games at Kogarah, but call the team the Southern Dragons, do they keep the 15 titles?

Thank you Geoffrey Robinson.

If St George (Leagues and Football Clubs) had no further involvement in the Dragons JV and the team changed it's name, then that would probably mean the demise of the St George DRLFC in the NRL. The Club would exit from first grade rugby league with 16 premierships (15 as St George plus 1 as part of the Dragons JV).

The 'Southern Dragons' would be new club with a small supporter base. The NRL would lose a chunk of supporters. Given that WIN Corp own it all, the new club would most likely move full time to Wollongong where many of their business holdings are based..

And to conclude the hypothetical, I suspect the 'Southern Dragons' would fold or be sold off to another Sydney club within 5 years.