Why Queensland have won eight straight

[Dazzat]

Let's face it - anyone NSW picks will be inferior to the Queensland spine as it stands right now: 1. Slater 6. Thurston 7. Cronk 9. Smith.

And if Andrew Johns is made an "immortal" after playing for NSW in a few winning Origins, what does that make Jonathon Thurston who has played in EVERY game of the record making winning streak?

I can just hear those NSW commentators matching the praise and hype around Johns being directed at Thurston - NOT.

If Johns is an immortal, Thurston must be Ironman, Hulk and Captain Australia combined!

 

[Knightmare]

:lol: Yeah, those arrogant people in NSW not giving Qld credit- who ever told them they were better than us?

Oh and when (Sir) Alex Ferguson took over at Man United, he was asked what he wanted to achieve at the club and he said "I want to get ahead of Liverpool". In the League title rankings, eventually he did (although LFC still have more total silverware). A look at Meninga's achievements during his time as Qld coach must be looked at with one eye upon his lack of selection dilemmas in the 1,6,7 and 9...

 

[Rod]

Let's face it - anyone NSW picks will be inferior to the Queensland spine as it stands right now: 1. Slater 6. Thurston 7. Cronk 9. Smith.

And if Andrew Johns is made an "immortal" after playing for NSW in a few winning Origins, what does that make Jonathon Thurston who has played in EVERY game of the record making winning streak?

I can just hear those NSW commentators matching the praise and hype around Johns being directed at Thurston - NOT.

If Johns is an immortal, Thurston must be Ironman, Hulk and Captain Australia combined!

Immortals judged solely on Origin now?

Thurston has been mostly MIA in club footy for at least a year....

 

[isaiah]

Immortals judged solely on Origin now?

Thurston has been mostly MIA in club footy for at least a year....

knights might have won more finals games in the latter johns years if he hadnt forced the club to show ben kennedy the door by making them pay him way overs.

 

[Dazzat]

Immortals judged solely on Origin now?

Thurston has been mostly MIA in club footy for at least a year....

Continually amused at those who say Thurston doesn't perform at club level. Usually their reason for coming up with this lie, is that he hasn't got a premiership ring.

Anyone who watches Cowboys games knows that Thurston is nine times out of 10, one of the most influential players on the field, and 10 times out of 10, the most passionate and competitive player on the field.

It could be argued that it's harder to play consistently well in under performing teams than in teams that are flying.

If Thurston was a NSW player he'd be major of Sydney by now.

 

[Rod]

I guess it depends on how much responsibility for the team's performance you put on Thurston, or whether you simply judge each individual in the team separately. For someone taking up as much salary cap as he is I would put quite a lot of the team's performance on his shoulders. One of the hallmarks of the truly great players is lifting the players around you, some of whom are actually pretty average first graders. Looking past all of Johns' obvious qualities such as passing/kicking, this was one of his greatest attributes and one which clearly separates him from Thurston for mine.

 

[Jason Maher]

Thurston's form was down at the start of this year.

 

[Big Pete]

Didn't we already have a JT > Johns thread just a couple of months ago?

In fact, we've had a couple over the years. JT had from 2010 to get his act together at club level but the fact is he isn't good enough to carry the Cowboys to a premiership like Joey was able to.

It could be argued that Joey had a better supporting cast but it wasn't like the fans or the media were playing down the Cowboys line-up in the past two seasons.

I'll be interested to see how JT performs under a new coach. Henry really stifled the Cowboys offence, adopting a more clinical approach which stilted JT's natural game and failed to play the club's strengths. Whether it will lead to the Cowboys maiden premiership remains to be seen but for arguments sake, if it does, then this entire conversation will need to be reviewed.

As it stands, JT is just a great of his generation. Joey is a deserving immortal.

 

[Joker's Wild]

When Thurston becomes a multiple GF winner as a starting player, Clive Churchhill medalist and 3 time Dally M winner, he may then be allowed to come into contention as an immortal.

Sadly, the first 2 are unlikely to happen at the Cowboys any time soon and JT aint getting any younger

 

[Big Pete]

A World Cup victory would be nice too.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Yep, add that to the list too

Jeez JT has some ground to catch up

 

[greg]

Didn't we already have a JT > Johns thread just a couple of months ago?

In fact, we've had a couple over the years. JT had from 2010 to get his act together at club level but the fact is he isn't good enough to carry the Cowboys to a premiership like Joey was able to.

It could be argued that Joey had a better supporting cast but it wasn't like the fans or the media were playing down the Cowboys line-up in the past two seasons.

I'll be interested to see how JT performs under a new coach. Henry really stifled the Cowboys offence, adopting a more clinical approach which stilted JT's natural game and failed to play the club's strengths. Whether it will lead to the Cowboys maiden premiership remains to be seen but for arguments sake, if it does, then this entire conversation will need to be reviewed.

As it stands, JT is just a great of his generation. Joey is a deserving immortal.

This.
Unfortunately some posters (not you Pete) only see the criteria to be an immortal through their maroon or blue glasses. Joey is deserving. And don't worry Dazzat, I've got no doubt in a few years time Locky will be the next, deservingly.

 

[Dazzat]

The mental imagery of Andrew Johns carrying the entire Knights team to a premiership is a little ... well ... funny.

To suggest that one player, in a team/club dynamic that involves 100s of people, "carries" the entire team is first of all ridiculous.

Secondly, and probably more importantly, to suggest Andrew Johns carried an entire team to a premiership is a massive smack in the face to everyone else involved in the club during that time - from administrators, to coaches, to trainers.

It's a complete fantasy - particularly in retrospect when one considers Johns' self-confessed drug abuse. In light of his confession, I would suggest that the club carried Johns rather than visa versa.

To immediately downgrade a player's ability because of the performance of his club, regardless of whether that player is a playmaker or not, ignores such things as club culture, supporters, relationships within the club and numerous other intangibles.

Wally Lewis played for and coached the Gold Coast when they were an embarrassment. In light of this, should we strip him of his "immortality".

No, I know what I see whenever I watch Thurston playing for the Cowboys. And I see a highly influential player, who is one of the most competitive players I've ever seen, who makes the 1% plays and the 100% plays, in both attack and defence.

In terms of the next immortal ... I would prefer seeing Meninga receiving that award before Lockyer to be honest.

 

[Rod]

The mental imagery of Andrew Johns carrying the entire Knights team to a premiership is a little ... well ... funny.

To suggest that one player, in a team/club dynamic that involves 100s of people, "carries" the entire team is first of all ridiculous.

Secondly, and probably more importantly, to suggest Andrew Johns carried an entire team to a premiership is a massive smack in the face to everyone else involved in the club during that time - from administrators, to coaches, to trainers.

It's a complete fantasy - particularly in retrospect when one considers Johns' self-confessed drug abuse. In light of his confession, I would suggest that the club carried Johns rather than visa versa.

When he was playing we had to put up with endless jabs about how we can't win without him and were a one-man team, now certain people play down his personal achievements since he couldn't have done it without the rest of his team. Which is it?

I don't think anyone is suggesting Johns is solely responsible for any Knights success and premierships that we had, but as our halfback, playmaker, captain and games number 1 player it would be ridiculous and would be straight up ignoring history to assert that Johns didn't play a massive role in any success we had, probably moreso so than any one player has ever had in history. Surely we don't need to go over his impact on the Knights in more detail than that.

 

[Dazzat]

Not disputing Johns was a great player ... but am pointing out why it is ridiculous and insulting to so many people to suggest Johns "carried the whole team". This is a nonsense; just as much a nonsense as suggesting Thurston is an inferior player because North Queensland has never won a premiership.

We could use an old joke here:

Back in the old days, Queensland were whooping NSW in a State of Origin clash - it was 24-0 at half time. So the lads got together in the shed, and agreed that Wally Lewis and Mal Meninga would continue playing while everyone else went to the pub of a drink. Queensland only need two players.

Well after full-time the Queensland players returned, horrified to see the score at 30-18. "What happened?" gasped Alfie. "How did you let them score so many points?"

"Yeah sorry mate," said Wally. "But I found it bit tough after Mal was sent off after five minutes for a head high".

Say no more.

 

[veggiepatch1959]

If Thurston was a NSW player he'd be major of Sydney by now.

I wasn't aware that Sydney had its own armed forces. :lol:

 

[Rod]

The point is that (I believe) Johns had more of a positive effect on his team than Thurston has. That's not discrediting Thurston, who will go down as a great half, but he's not on Johns' level in this area. Like it or not, team achievements are taken into account when judging and comparing individuals at the highest level, particularly when these individuals have huge influences on their team (captain, playmaker etc), and in the NRL's case, take up a considerable portion of the salary cap.

Thurston has had his chances in recent years to move into Johns' area and I believe has failed to take them, this year being a prime example. A squad most people were predicting would make the top 4 and they most likely won't make the eight. Compare that to Johns in 2006, the year after e won the wooden spoon. A Knights fan, I think it was perverse, recently posted the forward pack Johns had to work with that year and it was tripe, nothing compared to this year's Cowboys one, and we made the top four, largely on the back of Johns. Obviously he had help from guys like Buderus (who had a great year) but the point remains. Johns didn't have a forward pack the quality of the 2013 Cowboys to work with, with Australian props, Tariq Sims etc. Thurston may give 100% and all the rest of it but so does Mitchell Pearce, that alone is not enough for his year, as far as the Cowboys are concerned, to not be considered a failure.

 

[GongPanther]

Back in the 1970s and earlier, NSW financed by the poker machines that were outlawed in Queensland, poached Queensland's top players and paraded them in interstate games as NSWers, thrashing Queensland teams year after year. The arrogance. The lack of respect. Queensland got used to annual floggings at the hands of players nurtured and groomed in their own state.

Those Qld players took the NSW money and did not refuse to play for NSW against Qld.

I think thats the misdirected issue in all of this.

And what about well before the 60's before NSW had poker machines?

Were Qld players lured to play for NSW before...and if so,why?

And how do you know that the attitude from the NSW side was arrogant and disrepectful?

And were the Qld players that were playing for NSW,arrogant and disrepectful towards their home state?

 

[Big Pete]

'Carry' was the wrong word, I apologise Daz. What I meant to say was 'lead', which Johns did as captain and Clive Churchill medalist.

Let's not get it twisted, Joey was surrounded by some quality players in his day - Buderus, Harragon, Kennedy etc. However, JT has been surrounded by quality players too and hasn't been able to produce the goods.

Obviously he doesn't have to achieve everything Joey did to become an immortal but winning that elusive second premiership would help his argument tremendously.

It won't matter too much in the end. The award doesn't exactly carry that much credibility and I'm sure JT will feature in the Hall of Fame in due time. However, I don't think he was as good as Joey.

 

[Harley Gorillason]

Yep, add that to the list too

Jeez JT has some ground to catch up

A second Golden Boot wouldn't hurt either.