will we make the 8?

[Serc]

Poore, Dell, Cooper, Soward, Creagh, Hornby, Morris, Nightingale...

 

[CJG 182]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no Dragons expert by any means but Bennett bought:

Costigan, Priddis (bust), Boyd, Smith, Weyman.. Yes? I feel I'm forgetting someone.

That leaves..

Nightingale - NZ Rep
Cooper - NSW & Aus Rep
Young - former rep player, quality all the same.
Soward - was in great form last year before injury and Nathan Brown ruled him out.
Hornby - Has played NSW and was in good form last year too.
Sailor - I'm sure you know his accomplishments
Poore & Hunt - two of the better young props going around in this competition, even prior to Bennetts arrival.
Matt Prior - Great young player.
Creagh - would have played rep if not for injuries.
Scott - Work horse, great cover for Soward.
Chase Stanley - Had a better year before Bennett got there. 19y.o. NZ rep.

There are probably more but thats off the top of my head.

Compare that to the rabble Smith inherited.

The Dragons made the finals and were doing well last year until our very own saviour Ben Rogers played in the finals (due to Nathan Brown and Soward's back injury) and took to his trademark play of terrorising the crowd with his kicking game.

 

[Joker's Wild]

I don't believe the crap Karma is going on with perverse ;-)

I still maintain he has a pessimistic approach, because, well, he likes to be different.

Oh no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no Jobbers, Karma is just a realist not a pessimist. Go ahead and ask him, he'll tell you

 

[Bring it home Knights]

Oh no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no Jobbers, Karma is just a realist not a pessimist. Go ahead and ask him, he'll tell you

Well said Jobdog. Well said joker's wild. Karma's posts are REALLY getting boring

 

[Karmawave]

Well said Jobdog. Well said joker's wild. Karma's posts are REALLY getting boring

Isn't there an ignore function on here to ignore certain members? Yes, go into your User Control section, and voila.

Well here's an idea for all the people in here who don't like what I post, or me, or whatever.

JD, JW, Serc, BIHK, Apey et al...

PUT ME ON THE IGNORE LIST AND ENJOY YOUR DAY.

 

[Apey]

Isn't there an ignore function on here to ignore certain members? Yes, go into your User Control section, and voila.

Well here's an idea for all the people in here who don't like what I post, or me, or whatever.

JD, JW, Serc, BIHK, Apey et al...

PUT ME ON THE IGNORE LIST AND ENJOY YOUR DAY.

It's like a train wreck, you just can't look away..

 

[Karmawave]

It's like a train wreck, you just can't look away..

Well don't complain.

 

[perverse]

We are missing two key players Kidley and Mullen. You could argue Houston.

Over the last 4-5 weeks we have been dreadful.

Out of our stocks, this IMO is who would make other teams 17 every week.

1. Gidley.
2. McManus.
3. McDougall.
4. Mata'utia
5. Uate/Vuna
6. Mullen/Rogers
7. Dureau/Mullen
8. Cross.
9. Degois.
10. Tolar
11. Simpson.
12. Taia
13. Hilder.

14. Patterson.
15. Faaoso.
17. Houston.
18. Taufua

Besides that we have a bunch of fringe first graders. And like fringe first graders they can either be good or terrible.

Out of them the bolded are the only real standouts.

I am actually fearing we are in a bit of strife next year.

My changes in red. i actually love the look of that team, if we can pick one of those halves combos for next year and stick with it all year. hopefully we keep natusch too... for a young prop i've really liked what i've seen of him thus far. props take a lot longer to mature and hit their peaks, and i think he'll be a gem.

the rest of your post is just... wow... mindblowingly stupid. guess what every other club in the competition has outside their top 17-18 players? FRINGE FIRST GRADERS!

Wes Naiqama Ben Cross and Danny Wicks were meant to be our Marquee signings how can you say we recruited well? lol

Taia and Houston. yeah thats nice, thats two players out of what 15? When you have 3 million to spend on new players and Chris Houston is your best signing i would say thats pretty dissapointing. Junior Sau is ordinary and the minimum wage under the salary cap is like 60k.

Compare our signings to the bulldogs and it is embarassing.

Wayne Bennet really taught Smith a lesson about coaching this year they were a new team from round one and all his signings were a success. He didn't need 3 years to "rebuild" or say he still had a "young team blahblahblah" he just came in and got immediate and obvious results.

are you really really stoned, or just completely geniused? i'll ignore the fact that you've ignored most of the names i've mentioned. yes, the minimum wage under the salary cap is 60k, FOR YOUR TOP 25 PAID PLAYERS YOU dope! junior, up until his most recent contract, was getting paid in the second tier, and not one of the top 25 paid players at the club. i repeat - BARGAIN. junior has tons of potential, has never looked out of place in first grade bar the last 4 or 5 weeks since he did his sternum. have you ever had a broken/cracked sternum? one of the most painful injuries you can imagine.

who cares what the bulldogs are doing? yes, they made some astute purchases... but at the start of the year almost everyone was tipping them to come last. Kevin Moore has done a fantastic job with them. they are playing magnificently as a team. Kimmorley is doing nothing he hasn't been doing for the past 5 years at the sharks. Hannant is a good, hard nosed prop... not unlike Crossy when he's actually on the field. Ennis is great, but De Gois is a cheaper and almost as effective alternative. i can go on and on and on... but the real point is...

we have a young team. a very very young and inexperienced team (the most inexperienced in the competition, by a fair margin i believe). we play exciting football and when we are switched on, we have the measure of any other team in the competition. we need to let these blokes mature and grow as a footballing unit. i realise that we could have gone out, bought some old, proven heads and be flying even higher right about now... but it's not a long term solution... and it's a more expensive one too. i will be immensely disappointed if we miss the finals this year after all the promise that has been shown, but that hasn't happened yet. if it does, then so be it. there is a little bit of dead weight to shed on the roster (wes, i'm looking at you), however the main thing is simply experience. it will only make the boys even hungrier for it next year. until they learn disclipline and focus with their football, we wont be the force that i'm sure we can be. there will be glimpses though, and there already have been plenty.

 

[Jobdog]

Wes Naiqama Ben Cross and Danny Wicks were meant to be our Marquee signings how can you say we recruited well? lol

Taia and Houston. yeah thats nice, thats two players out of what 15? When you have 3 million to spend on new players and Chris Houston is your best signing i would say thats pretty dissapointing. Junior Sau is ordinary and the minimum wage under the salary cap is like 60k.

Compare our signings to the bulldogs and it is embarassing.

Wayne Bennet really taught Smith a lesson about coaching this year they were a new team from round one and all his signings were a success. He didn't need 3 years to "rebuild" or say he still had a "young team blahblahblah" he just came in and got immediate and obvious results.

:lol: :lol: Please don't tell me you're trying to compare the Dragons from 08-09 to the Knights from 08-09. The Dragons had the playing roster, just needed a half-decent coach. The Knights have a decent coach, just need a few more "stars" on the playing roster ...

 

[reginald.p]

Here is a simple question for you guys. If the team Brian Smith has put together is so good why did it finish 9th last year? and why is it only 7th this year?

Oh and a few more questions for you.

1. Why have the bulldogs been able to go from last to second in one year but we have to "rebuild" for three seasons?

2.What is our win loss record with and without Kurt Gidley under Brian Smith. How does it compare to our win loss record with and without Andrew Johns under Hagan?

3. What is the average age of our full strength team and how does it compare to the average age of other teams?

4. If Brian Smith has been so successful why did the club not offer him a long term contract?

 

[Serc]

I'll have a crack:

The team is so good because 2008 was more or less the first year we properly played without Johns running the show - we managed to beat most of the top 8 teams last year (6 out of 8 I think) including that epic game against the Storm late last year without Bedsy. A fantastic accomplishment to beat the benchmark team of the NRL from 06-08 without Johns and Buderus after such a short time period.

We finished 9th last year and are 7th this year currently because it was a full cleanout, not a full buy-up like the Dogs (notice the CS lingo here perverse ). The whole club has been straightened out from ground up, and it has also been done with a limited budget - a constraint that the Dogs haven't had to contend with (if we are going to keep comparing ourselves to them). We are also a young team and we've been dropping a lot of silly games which we all know about.

1) Dogs have gone from last to second in a year because they bought heavily (and well of course with hindsight) which was different to what we did in 2007/2008.

2) No idea...off the top of my head I'd hazard a guess its a bit better.

3) Pretty low, one of the lowest in the comp I'd say.

4) Probably because they might see him as a short term cleanout/rebuilder that they didn't have in their long term plans. Personally I would've kept him for a bit longer to have a real crack with this team he has built.

 

[perverse]

question 1 is the only question i can answer without being either purely speculative or without doing an amount of research im not comfortable with at midnight... so i'll leave the proceeding 3 questions.

however, the answer to question 1 is that they have the right chemistry in all sorts of areas this year. they haven't had too many injury problems - certainly not long term. they had a massive cleanout and their buying was astute - however i think if they had the injuries we have had this year they would suffer big time, as i don't think they have much depth at all. appointing Kevin Moore as their new coach has proven a master stroke... the players all knew him, respected him and have responded fantastically to his coaching (i hope the same happens with us and rick stone). on top of that, moore is a good coach... both tactically and player management-wise. they have oodles of experience in the key positions of 1, 6, 7, 9. the bulldogs club itself was not in a rabble like the knights with facilities, procedures, etc. the bulldogs arn't on the ropes financially.

need i go on? because i can. comparing us to the bulldogs is apples and oranges.

 

[Jono078]

Bulldogs also got a bit lucky, coming into the year they still had room to move under the cap.

And as it goes the Broncos unloaded Stagg - signed by the Dogs.
Eastwood visa rejected in UK - Dogs had money to sign him.

Hell they were still in the hunt for Crocker too.

Dogs minus the 2 late signings I don't think they'd be where they are, both have had a huge impact on them.

But I think biggest impact is the coaching, Moore seems to be the next top coach.

 

[Karmawave]

Bulldogs also got a bit lucky, coming into the year they still had room to move under the cap.

And as it goes the Broncos unloaded Stagg - signed by the Dogs.
Eastwood visa rejected in UK - Dogs had money to sign him.

Hell they were still in the hunt for Crocker too.

Dogs minus the 2 late signings I don't think they'd be where they are, both have had a huge impact on them.

But I think biggest impact is the coaching, Moore seems to be the next top coach.

Other clubs are allowed to enter the player market too you know. Luck has nothing to do with it. We have had Johns and Buderus both remove massive space from our salary cap too, and compare the players we have filled it with to the Bulldogs.

There's one reason and one reason only the Bulldogs are excelling this season, and it has nothing to do with any individual signing. It has everything to do with the structure and leadership of Todd Greenberg, and the change of attitude he has developed in the club from the coaching staff down.

It's naive to think talent wins games alone.

How many talented teams have we seen over the years miss the 8.

I mean seriously ,the Bulldogs are going well and have been carrying blokes like Yileen Gordon, Daniel Holdsworth, Gary Warburton, Chris Armit, Darryl Millard.

They're hardly one of the more talented squads in the NRL.

They are well coached, and now have become a brilliantly run organisation thanks to Greenberg.

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

My changes in red. i actually love the look of that team, if we can pick one of those halves combos for next year and stick with it all year. hopefully we keep natusch too... for a young prop i've really liked what i've seen of him thus far. props take a lot longer to mature and hit their peaks, and i think he'll be a gem.

All that I am going to say is take off the Goggles mate, Vuna/Uate both are the very defination of fringe first graders, very very inconsistant.

Rogers? Your quite simply stoned.

Mata'utia - Who, cant categorise a bloke who's never played NRL as an NRL player.

Tolar? 70-80 metres a game and 25 tackles, his too small to be a prob and too slow to be a backrower. Gives it his all but he is ordinary.

Tafua - 18th man or bench is about right, however I cant see him getting a start in too many NRL sides.

As I said players who would get a start week in week out in other NRL teams, your dreaming with your substitutes.

I'll reiterate what I said up the top take off your red and blue goggles and smell the coffee.

 

[General Knight]

My mate said to me the other night that the Knights are a team of over paid nobodies who are playing well as a team and that the only players the he cud recognise was Gidley and Mullen. The rest are a bunch of over achieving nobodies. Come to think of it where has our cap gone too? There is no way we can get an actual break down of the cap yeah?

 

[macavity]

All that I am going to say is take off the Goggles mate, Vuna/Uate both are the very defination of fringe first graders, very very inconsistant.

Rogers? Your quite simply stoned.

Mata'utia - Who, cant categorise a bloke who's never played NRL as an NRL player.

Tolar? 70-80 metres a game and 25 tackles, his too small to be a prob and too slow to be a backrower. Gives it his all but he is ordinary.

Tafua - 18th man or bench is about right, however I cant see him getting a start in too many NRL sides.

As I said players who would get a start week in week out in other NRL teams, your dreaming with your substitutes.

I'll reiterate what I said up the top take off your red and blue goggles and smell the coffee.

bit harsh there.

Taufua is great value, Tolar does his job well and Pete will be a very good first grader for us next year.

We have one of the better packs in the comp, and probably one of the lowest paid (it is hard to see where we actually do spend our money but that is another issue...) - and the likes of Taufua and Tolar are central to that.

I would go so far as to say Taufua and Cross are probably our best starting front row.

 

[reginald.p]

There is a thing called a salary cap you know. The bulldogs aren't spending anymore on players then we are. The difference is, all their signings have been fantastic and half of ours have been duds and the other half are good not great. The Bulldogs have made a mockery of Smith and his "rebuilding". Quite simply the Bulldogs are spending as much money on players as we are they just signed much better players then we did.

As for the "we are a young team" well i actually compared our average age of our team to the average age of the Roosters team we are playing this week.

Knights average age 24.7

Roosters average age 23.7

To make sure this wasn't just a fluke i added up the Storms average age and guess what?? The Storm who have been the benchmark for the past 4 seasons average age is 24.2. So not only are we not a young team WE ARE OLDER THEN THE BEST TEAM OF THE PAST 4 YEARS.

24 25 is the average age of an NRL player us being any younger then other teams is a myth.

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

My mate said to me the other night that the Knights are a team of over paid nobodies who are playing well as a team and that the only players the he cud recognise was Gidley and Mullen. The rest are a bunch of over achieving nobodies. Come to think of it where has our cap gone too? There is no way we can get an actual break down of the cap yeah?

With Johns and Buderus you could explain it, sort of.

But now with Gidley and Cross as our top players, rather hard too.

Wouldnt say overachievers, lots of those nuffies are just guys punching well above their weight.

EDIT: Macavity, I just must be one of the few people who doesnt see it RE Tolar I guess, just seems to hit the line like a wet papertowel and never dents it and more often then not ends up on his back.

And Tafua and Cross would be a crazy front row, if Tafua keeps on developing the way he has it could be scary good.

 

[Karmawave]

And Tafua and Cross would be a crazy front row, if Tafua keeps on developing the way he has it could be scary good.

Even IF Cross comes back next year injury free ( and it's a BIG IF ), he has 1 season left on his contract, will be turning 32 years of age, and unlikely to be at the club for any length of time greater than next season.

One can only hope that the Knights are piecing together a few young front row targets that may be coming off contract in the next season or two - aiming for a Russell Packer type player who is first grade ready and has it all ahead of him.

The Cross money should be spent on the best quality young prop under 25 we can find, no different to how the Bulldogs made their target Ben Hannant and went out and got him.

In my opinion, Ben Hannant has been the buy of the year, not just for his form this year, but more so in the knowledge that when the Brett Kimmorleys are long gone, Hannant will still be putting in the kind of performances you just know he will come up with week in week out for a few years yet.

He plays big minutes ( who says a prop only has to play 40 minutes a game anyway!!! ), and he is quality.

That's what the Knights need to target with the Cross money.

Forget the fringe stuff we have running around now, and the injury prone option in Cross.

Target a Russell Packer , or a similar standard player , get him on good coin, and make him a foundation for the future.

And the next time we ATTEMPT to sign a hard headed old prop, hopefully we will get a player like Steve Price or Petero, proven over many years, and not a Cross - proven over a few months.

After all , we could have had Petero here on less coin.