Work together or implode ..

[Willow]

was it one of the bullsh*t variety :lol:

LOL. I didn't say that. Just a strong urging of suggestion.

Hippy.

 

[madunit]

:lol:

 

[Jesbass]

At the end of the day, I have respect for all F7's writers, bar one...

My mail says you should leave Weidler out of this, unit!

 

[dubopov]

Mad Unit, I find some of your comments interesting ..eg.


"Welcome to the world of art people. Interpretation varies from person to person."

- surely personal taste should have little to do with any marking..

"I have had my grievances about marks before, but never question it."

- why not ? you don't believe in the concept of "fairness" ?

"If players can be allowed to question refs marks, I think this would be detrimental to the game as it could see refs scores not being taken seriously and open to criticism."

- refs should be accountable .. it's not the f**king Freemasons

"Could lead to refs leaving, and ALL the fun being completely removed from the game."

- conversely, players leave .. only 5 teams left and some of them are having trouble keeping participants keen.

"To those whinging about scores, sh*t happens."

- so. if "sh*t happens" you sit back and take it and don't try and change anything ??

I found this comment particularly interesting ...

"At the end of the day, I have respect for all F7's writers, bar one .. "

- this thread is about honesty, so name names ..

 

[madunit]

Mad Unit, I find some of your comments interesting ..eg.


"Welcome to the world of art people. Interpretation varies from person to person."

- surely personal taste should have little to do with any marking..

In an ideal world it would, but we can't help if some ref prefers comical articles to serious ones. Its not something we can fix, nor is it something that can be controlled. Part and Parcel of the game and, well life really.

"I have had my grievances about marks before, but never question it."

- why not ? you don't believe in the concept of "fairness" ?

Its one opinion against another. Fairness is accepting my mark like everyone else, not bitching about how I think my article should have been marked higher.

"If players can be allowed to question refs marks, I think this would be detrimental to the game as it could see refs scores not being taken seriously and open to criticism."

- refs should be accountable .. it's not the f**king Freemasons

Accountable for what? If they provide a justifiable reason for their mark, which they always do, then there's nothing to be accountable for. They are volunteering their own free time, and not being paid, to ensure this comp exists for people like you and me. They get little accolade or enjoyment from the game, so the least us players can do is respect their time and marks as they are.

"Could lead to refs leaving, and ALL the fun being completely removed from the game."

- conversely, players leave .. only 5 teams left and some of them are having trouble keeping participants keen.

Well if people can't handle a tiny piece of constructive criticism over an article they write for fun in a competition which provides no rewards of monetary value, then they are clearly taking this whole thing waaaay too seriously.

And before I get pidgeonholed as some sort of defender of those you are against, I have had several similar gripes in the past as captain of the Sharks. But you know what, you get over it and realise its the writing that brings the joy, not the marking or the scores. Well at least I did. Took me a while, but it finally sunk in.

"To those whinging about scores, sh*t happens."

- so. if "sh*t happens" you sit back and take it and don't try and change anything ??

Yes you change the way YOU write and improve yourself. At least thats what I and a number of others have done.

I found this comment particularly interesting ...

"At the end of the day, I have respect for all F7's writers, bar one .. "

- this thread is about honesty, so name names ..

Robster. tbh it was no f**king mystery

 

[gorilla]

I've got a store-bought Split - can't put those bastards down 'cause they melt on the desk.

I've been wherever I could in the shortest time available. It's a quiet house and now, due to the melt factor, I've both hands involved. I'd like to 'step away' for 5 minutes but I've got to stop smoking

Where does one go atm?

I wrote my stuff because its was a competition; it was about something I can both secretly love and openly discuss and be a part of, I got to idea-out nice or weird-load, or I could make something (even ordinary) in a medium (writing) that I enjoy. It became a secret art, done at esoteric solo wall-box asian lunches, cold train trips and stolen hours at a desk.

I played with a team. We turned up and we put out. We still do. Beat us if you can, etc.

So many good, honest, funny, delightful .. even f'well-meaning stories and moments have and can come out of this game.

When I was in a business that demanded a lot of time, I reffed - about 2 years ? It was rare that I enjoyed the luxury of visiting my team's dressing room. "A shave and a hair-cut" and all that. I still ref.

I wanted to keep a certain objectivity, which I believe most refs in F7s want to do, and I think that's a great start particularly as that's where the floor or minimum starts, as a conscious effort.

Reffing was about 1/4 as good as playing, perhaps a 1/2. It's like Government, man. There can be lots of rules but there's always space inside - how much space do you have and want ?

Systems are good, KISS. etc, time/money/people/influences/outcomes.

Let's have a system if we want one. I reffed with a very basic system last week and thought it good to use. Remember, there will always be players who think they met criteria, or don't, or can never set out a flow of idea and imagery, or they even just have a boring story that particular match.

*Senses bad blood in this room* - some of it unsurprising TBH, and other parts just the echo of players who can't accept their post was scored less than they thought suitable, and a few of those who did get dudded by (perhaps) styles and practice, or even occasionally a ref's un-interest ... although one can not like something and still recognise it.

Suck it up princesses, well those ordinary ones anyway. Show us your fortitude as well as your (bound to be) growth in talent and skills.

Those who've been dudded - first, were you really? Possibly somewhat or sometime but I reckon some of you complain too much. There are ref's limits: their knowledge and skill, openness to style and idea, competence in grammar and construction (let's leave spelling and punctuation as real basics given we're using a keyboard). These are player's limits too. It's a bit symbiotic.

anyone got a cigarette ?

I love the teams and characters. All sorts of angles and perspectives - collectively and collatively. My team's got together and worked out plans and schemes or just managed to rock up and get it done. We have our in-jokes, meetings or gripes. Just like yours. I don't even know but a few of you.

It's an art, a competition, a test and a commitment. It's harder for some and it's open to anyone. It's not always easy but it's actually straightforward and not too demanding. It's a game. There's rules, culture, ethics and sport. Dickheads, wanna-bes, honest men and women, organisers and lurkers.

Who's up this match ?

 

[gorilla]

In an ideal world it would, but we can't help if some ref prefers comical articles to serious ones. Its not something we can fix, nor is it something that can be controlled. Part and Parcel of the game and, well life really.

Its one opinion against another. Fairness is accepting my mark like everyone else, not bitching about how I think my article should have been marked higher.

Accountable for what? If they provide a justifiable reason for their mark, which they always do, then there's nothing to be accountable for. They are volunteering their own free time, and not being paid, to ensure this comp exists for people like you and me. They get little accolade or enjoyment from the game, so the least us players can do is respect their time and marks as they are.

Well if people can't handle a tiny piece of constructive criticism over an article they write for fun in a competition which provides no rewards of monetary value, then they are clearly taking this whole thing waaaay too seriously.

And before I get pidgeonholed as some sort of defender of those you are against, I have had several similar gripes in the past as captain of the Sharks. But you know what, you get over it and realise its the writing that brings the joy, not the marking or the scores. Well at least I did. Took me a while, but it finally sunk in.

Yes you change the way YOU write and improve yourself. At least thats what I and a number of others have done.


Robster. tbh it was no f**king mystery

word, merkin.

merkin, not merkin

merkin, you merkin

f**k.
what about vagina ....

word, you vagina.

 

[bgdc]

Big Mick, I rarely post other than to play, so play it is >>>>>>

Give me a huge kiss, you beast, somewhere in the world we shared our birthdays I got a camera, what did you get?

 

[gorilla]

you know what's really got me worried ?

The modern weakness of mixing jargon with hyperbole and rhetoric with over-personalisation that's leading to media's immediacy of crap opinion.

 

[madunit]

steady on gorilla, the media is just f**ked, no need to over complicate things, you're making them sound good, like its intentional

 

[DRAGONZ_RULE]

And before I get pidgeonholed as some sort of defender of those you are against, I have had several similar gripes in the past as captain of the Sharks. But you know what, you get over it and realise its the writing that brings the joy, not the marking or the scores. Well at least I did. Took me a while, but it finally sunk in.

At face value, what you appear to be saying boils down to this:

You would be just as happy to come back and write articles in what is otherwise your free time if you kept getting scores of 35 rather than 85.

In my humble opinion, people spend time writing articles for this thing that they could easily spend doing something else. Just as the referees aren't paid, neither are the article-writers who are basically trying to do a job for their team.

If people on here derived their enjoyment merely from the act of writing an article and hitting the 'submit' button, without the slightest care for what mark their piece is actually given, there would arguably be no point to having a competition at all. Why not just have a forum called "LU Forum Articles", where people could drop by and post articles whenever they felt like it? Alternatiely, writers could perhaps post the articles to their Facebook or their Blog, or not even bother posting it online to begin with.

So let's face it .. part of the motivation for every single writer in the F7s is derived from the desire to have their piece marked as highly as possible, and for their team to win the match.

I am certain that we can include you in that group of persons too, assuming it is safe to say that you get a kick (however small) out of logging in to see that you have scored 92 rather than 29.

 

[Azkatro]

Two things:
- dubopov, you're a self-obsessed gronk. Learn some respect. Everybody here is volunteering their time, you ain't paying taxes to be in the F7's.
- I have for a while pondered the idea of putting F7's articles, past and present, on the website. Then adding ratings (think stars) and comments even. So if a player's ego isn't suffielciently stroked by those pesky referees, their peers can butter them up with ratings and comments on the site. I was reluctant though as I feared some could make referees feel undermined. Thoughts?

 

[dubopov]

Two things:
- dubopov, you're a self-obsessed gronk. Learn some respect. Everybody here is volunteering their time, you ain't paying taxes to be in the F7's.
- I have for a while pondered the idea of putting F7's articles, past and present, on the website. Then adding ratings (think stars) and comments even. So if a player's ego isn't suffielciently stroked by those pesky referees, their peers can butter them up with ratings and comments on the site. I was reluctant though as I feared some could make referees feel undermined. Thoughts?

A good example of working together .. thank you

 

[bartman]

At the risk of dragging this thread back to this morning, since I've been directly addressed I do have to take a right of reply.

lol. C'mon bart, people can't sneeze without you taking offence.

Offended? W, I think you're confusing offence with bemused sarcasm...

But bart, despite what you think, it is not about you. There was a bigger ongoing issue that was damaging the F7s, apparently since 2009.

I've never claimed any of this was about me W... Like your earlier confusion about me being offended, I think you chose to read too much into what were quite simple statements (e.g. the words I used were "no great loss" - there seems to be enough refs in the roster anyway)?

Unfortunately this issue had to be forced at some point if only to bring an end to it and any further suspicions.

On a general note, I'm not sure the end justified the means... And personally I'm still not sure why the choice of one F7s player (who hadn't played since 2006) to again not play F7s in 2011 was justification for a course of action (in this and other threads) that itself has taken the spirit and integrity of F7s to new lows? As you've said to others before, two wrongs don't make anything right - but so long as you've felt that you achieved something, then yes, perhaps the hypocrisy and silliness will now stop.

Since the remainder of your post Willow seemed personal between you and I (with incidents dragged up from the past for some unstated reason) I'd rather let your public accusations stand unresolved than respond and tarnish F7s any further than it has been already. As you know my PM box is always open, if you're ever interested in resolving your issues privately and directly (rather than publicly or in clandestine manoeuvres).

Thanks for your support, by the way. I hope you'll stick around to see the F7s emerge from these present doldrums.

Congrats on your optimism Jes, and while I am truly alarmed at the state of the playpen, I know that F7s can prove bigger than any one person.

Best of luck to everyone involved in F7s for 2011, and may all teams have a fun and controversy free season. :thumn.

 

[madunit]

well DR, theres not much point in me giving you my opinion, which you asked for, if you don't want it, or if you try and tell me how i think, and essentially calling me a liar. So o fully agree with azkatro's sentiments.

The score is really not important to me. i was writing articles for rugby league magazines last year, and getting no pay, no score, no comments.

Yet i loved it and kept doing it. It had nothing to do with ego stroking, and everything to do with doing something I enjoyed.

 

[murphyscreek]

well dubopov, theres not much point in me giving you my opinion, which you asked for, if you don't want it, or if you try and tell me how i think, and essentially calling me a liar. So o fully agree with azkatro's sentiments.

The score is really not important to me. i was writing articles for rugby league magazines last year, and getting no pay, no score, no comments.

Yet i loved it and kept doing it. It had nothing to do with ego stroking, and everything to do with doing something I enjoyed.

I have no wish to get into arguments with anyone here. But in the interest of keeping the peace (and accuracy), may I suggest you wrote the above in response to DR's post, not dubopovs. If I'm wrong, then apologies for butting in.

 

[Big Mick]

Big Mick, I rarely post other than to play, so play it is >>>>>>

Give me a huge kiss, you beast, somewhere in the world we shared our birthdays I got a camera, what did you get?

I got something very special from the missus. lol

Happy Birthday buddy

 

[madunit]

ah yes, sorry dubopov for mentioning you. Using my sh*t phone to post atm.

 

[Big Mick]

A good example of working together .. thank you

Working together goes both ways.

Not just you forcing your opinion on others & shouting and carrying on until people agree with you.

This isn't communist Russia. Its a fun article writing competition for people who have a genuine interest in the sport. I have always wanted to be a sports journalist, but with work and my general lack of ability I probably will never get the chance. But this platform gives me a chance to at least do something I enjoy.

I've had heaps of articles I thought deserved more. More than likely the one I just wrote as well. I wont think it'll score high because its a different idea. But I just wanted to write it. What I score is what I score....it doesn't matter...the most important thing to me is that I've got an excellant bunch of teammates around me that I would do anything for...despite having never met them in person. That's what this competition is for me.

 

[madunit]

except share your hot missus. ;-)

One day mick, we'll all cobble together somewhere, somehow and have some massive f**king 1kg steaks each