Worst Kangaroo back-row of all time??

[Titanic]

Lawd help us if Price's withdrawal marks the entire depth of our frontrow. Great player but who's coming behind? Backrow-smackrow, how about beaten by a better team, more committed team and better coached team on the day?

 

[Johns Magic]

38-24
New Zealand Kiwis:
1. Brent Webb
2. Jake Webster
3. Paul Whatuira
4. Clinton Toopi
5. Manu Vatuvei
6. Nigel Vagana
7. Stacey Jones
8. Paul Rauhihi
9. Lance Hohaia
10. Ruben Wiki
11. David Kidwell
12. Frank Pritchard
13. Louis Anderson
Subs:
14. David Faiumu
15. Roy Asotasi
16. Nathan Cayless
17. David Solomona


24-0
New Zealand Kiwis:
1. Brent Webb
2. Jake Webster
3. Paul Whatuira
4. Clinton Toopi
5. Manu Vatuvei
6. Nigel Vagana
7. Stacey Jones
8. Paul Rauhihi
9. Motu Tony
10. Ruben Wiki
11. David Kidwell
12. Louis Anderson
13. Shontayne Hape
Subs:
14. David Faiumu
15. Roy Asotasi
16. David Solomona
17. Ali Lauitiiti

Yeah those teams are much better than the 2008 Kiwi team.

 

[Iafeta]

Yeah those teams are much better than the 2008 Kiwi team.

You reckon?

2005 v 2008
1. Brent Webb 1 Lance Hohaia - yeah I'd take Webb
2. Jake Webster 2 Sam Perrett - equal
3. Paul Whatuira 3 Simon Mannering - I'd back Mannering
4. Clinton Toopi 4 Jerome Ropati - Ropati easily
5. Manu Vatuvei 5 Manu Vatuvei - Better player now
6. Nigel Vagana 6 Benji Marshall - Stop the fight, Benji
7. Stacey Jones 7 Nathan Fien - Stacey, but at that stage he was playing on one leg
8. Paul Rauhihi 8 Nathan Cayless - Rauhihi, but Cayless should have been WC MOM
9. Motu Tony 9 Thomas Leuluai - Leuluai on form
10. Ruben Wiki 10 Adam Blair - Wiki
11. David Kidwell 11 David Fa'alogo - Fa'alogo
12. Louis Anderson 12 Bronson Harrison - Harrison is a better ball runner
13. Shontayne Hape 13 Jeremy Smith - Smith for sure
Subs:
14. David Faiumu 14 Isaac Luke - Luke
15. Roy Asotasi 15 Greg Eastwood - Roy
16. David Solomona 16 Sam Rapira - Rapira
17. Ali Lauitiiti 17 Sika Manu - Ali was well down by this stage, Sika Manu

2005 Winners: 5
2008 Winners: 12

 

[Johns Magic]

You reckon?

2005 v 2008
1. Brent Webb 1 Lance Hohaia - yeah I'd take Webb
2. Jake Webster 2 Sam Perrett - equal
3. Paul Whatuira 3 Simon Mannering - I'd back Mannering
4. Clinton Toopi 4 Jerome Ropati - Ropati easily
5. Manu Vatuvei 5 Manu Vatuvei - Better player now
6. Nigel Vagana 6 Benji Marshall - Stop the fight, Benji
7. Stacey Jones 7 Nathan Fien - Stacey, but at that stage he was playing on one leg
8. Paul Rauhihi 8 Nathan Cayless - Rauhihi, but Cayless should have been WC MOM
9. Motu Tony 9 Thomas Leuluai - Leuluai on form
10. Ruben Wiki 10 Adam Blair - Wiki
11. David Kidwell 11 David Fa'alogo - Fa'alogo
12. Louis Anderson 12 Bronson Harrison - Harrison is a better ball runner
13. Shontayne Hape 13 Jeremy Smith - Smith for sure
Subs:
14. David Faiumu 14 Isaac Luke - Luke
15. Roy Asotasi 15 Greg Eastwood - Roy
16. David Solomona 16 Sam Rapira - Rapira
17. Ali Lauitiiti 17 Sika Manu - Ali was well down by this stage, Sika Manu

2005 Winners: 5
2008 Winners: 12

Toopi was awesome in that tournament. Scored a hat-trick in the 38-24 game.

Even on one leg Jones made that team twice as good.

I think if we were being fair, a combined back-row would have Fa'alogo, Kidwell and Smith.

Asotasi would be the best forward in the 2008 side.

The only player in the 2008 side I can see that would walk into the 2005 side would be Benji(or Mannering as a backrower). Jeremy Smith and Sika Manu would also be hard to keep out, but the rest are really give and take.

 

[westie]

Worst backrow was when Australia picked Brad Myers and Dane Carlaw.

Funny how no one picked how bqad the backrow was BEFORE The game.

But have to agree re Hindmarsh. His workrate alone demands his selection. Sure, Fitzy also comes up with 50 tackles, but as HJ said, Hindy cleans up the loose balls, does the dirty hitup, trails the centres and halves when they make a bust, hangs around the ruck waiting for an offload or a spilled ball.......

I have also wondered why Thaiday wasn't in the squad.

I seem to remember suggesting that, in terms of individuals, we had one of the worst packs going. I thought we'd be completely un-done by England and New Zealand. As it was, the ruck interpretations suited Australia in particular, to the detriment mainly of England.

That was until the final when the rules were slackened to "let the players sort it out". I would have thought that after doing the same thing in the NRL grandfinal, the officials would have realised that you can't play the final under different rules to the tournament as the ruck intepretations can sometimes decide who makes the final in the first place. E.g Brisbane would have competed with Manly and quite possibly beaten them.

I must say that the Kiwis were immense regardless of how long players were allowed to hold down though.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Toopi was awesome in that tournament. Scored a hat-trick in the 38-24 game.

Toopi is, was, and will forever be crap, BUT, unlike in 2003, he was actually crap by general consensus in 2005.

Untested just-turned-19 year old Soliola was the first choice and Toopi was a scraping the barrel last minute selection when Soliola got injured.

Even on one leg Jones made that team twice as good.

Jones was complete tits in 2005. I'm no Fien fan, but Fien in this world cup outperformed anything Jones has done since 2003.

I think if we were being fair, a combined back-row would have Fa'alogo, Kidwell and Smith.

Kidwell is/was very, very average.

Asotasi would be the best forward in the 2008 side.

True, but Asotasi was not quite as highly rated in 2005 as he is now. Paul Rauhihi was past his best by then yet still got a run ahead of Asotasi. I think Iafeta was being generous saying 2005 Rauhihi was better than 2008 Cayless. Rauhihi was 32 and well on the way to being the soft joke we see now in ESL.

The only player in the 2008 side I can see that would walk into the 2005 side would be Benji(or Mannering as a backrower). Jeremy Smith and Sika Manu would also be hard to keep out, but the rest are really give and take.

tbh I think the sides are evenly matched or maybe the 2008 side is better.

The 2005 tri-nations side was just as average on paper as the 2008 World Cup side and just as beset by injuries and unavailabilities.

 

[IAmDancingHomer]

Stewart was picked because he was the best backrower in the NRL for season 2008. And didnt put a foot wrong in the WC.

Besides, the back rowers did their job, it comes down to Stewart picking Watmough and Fitzgibbon to play as props. Kite and Civo? f**k off Stuart. Rugby League teams need 4 Props!

OMFG did you watch a game at all? he has been terrible. The only reason he didn't put a foot wrong is because he did stuff all. For a guy touted as one with a high work rate he was pathetic. Look at the stats from all the games he played in the WC and you will se out of all the forwards he moade the least amount of metres and the least tackles. I thought he was an OK player but in a green and gold jumper he was a joke.

 

[IAmDancingHomer]

Did not say it was the worst ever, worse than the one named in the thread.

Laffranci - has been great for seasons.
Stewart - had a fanatasic year.
Gallen - stats speak for themselves in 2008.

Now the fact Gallen was not 100% and Topou, Fitzgibbon and Watmough were the bench are part of the reason we lost. The main reason was good completion rates by the kiwis and good execution from the kiwis halves.

Give that man a cigar. He has nailed it in one. Competion rates byt the Aussies was terrible. The Kiwis had the ball 40 times and completed at 81%. The Aussies had the ball 34 times and only completed 62%. That is not good enough for any team to win a game of football. The Kiwis completed 33 sets with the ball FFS. That is one more than the Aussies had all game.
I broke the stats down between the two teams and most of the Aussie forwards made more metres per run than their Kiwi opposites. The only problem was that they didn't do enough of it. The game was there to be won by the Aussies and with a bit more comitment in their sets they would have won by 10.
In addition to this Stewarts much revered work rate was MIA all WC. He was a liability. Other than that the rest of the forwards made more metres per run than their Kiwi opposites (except for one of the from rowers as Cayless was a machine in the final).

 

[Mr Angry]

Bottom line

The introduction of the Warriors to the NRL has enabled the kiwis to win two series in a short space of time.

The Australian utter domination of Rugby League has come to an end an we now have one true competitor.

 

[westie]

Glenn Stewart is utterly useless. Up there with Heighington for over-rated gumbies.

 

[typicalfan]

Glenn Stewart is known for his ball playing more than his workrate, he is the type of 2nd rower that plays well off the back of great field position and is generally heavily involved in the attacking area. Fact is we couldnt hold onto the ball for long enough periods for Stewart to be effective. He has been great all year, Manly missed him on occasion when he was injured this year probably more so than guys like Matt Orford or Brett Stewart.

 

[Johns Magic]

Cory Paterson for the Kangaroos

 

[Front-Rower]

Worst back row of all time? This thread wouldn't even exist if Lockyear never dropped the ball over the line and the roos would of been up 16-0, because there was no way back if he scored....

 

[Iafeta]

Bottom line

The introduction of the Warriors to the NRL has enabled the kiwis to win two series in a short space of time.

The Australian utter domination of Rugby League has come to an end an we now have one true competitor.

Be nice now to have a second New Zealand team in there and see New Zealand Rugby League and therefore international rugby league take off and surpass Origin. No state competition should be placed ahead of an international program.

 

[Loudstrat]

Wise words, Iafita. I long for that day - and we almost have it upon us.

 

[MSIH]

i just think stuart and the roos were cocky, i mean look at the bench they had.
how watmough, topou, fitzy were there is a joke!
G. Stewart is a nuffy too!

there are many backrowers better than those above.... but i guess politics became involved in selection.

Name them then.

You're quick to say the selections were political and there are plenty of better backrowers or better wingers out there but you never name any.

"G Stewart is a nuffy" shows how much cred you have.

 

[Mr Angry]

Be nice now to have a second New Zealand team in there and see New Zealand Rugby League and therefore international rugby league take off and surpass Origin. No state competition should be placed ahead of an international program.

Be more than happy for a second team my self.

Island of Origin for the kiwis!

 

[Meth]

I live in Christchurch, which is probably the strongest Rugby League city in New Zealand away from Auckland. A second team would probably not work here Angry.

It may work in Wellington, as they typically are good supporters that turn out for games- but I am less than optimistic.

 

[macavity]

will G Stewart make origin?

big question.

 

[macavity]

I live in Christchurch, which is probably the strongest Rugby League city in New Zealand away from Auckland. A second team would probably not work here Angry.

It may work in Wellington, as they typically are good supporters that turn out for games- but I am less than optimistic.

would a "Southern" team splitting games between wello and c'church work? perhaps even playing a game or 2 elsewhere?

I understand there is a big Auckland v the rest mentality in NZ?