What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

WWE SuperThread *Spoilers*

Status
Not open for further replies.

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,125
Ahh, Eele you and I think a lot a like when it comes to wrestling - I basically agree with all of your points.

I don't think the IWC has moved on from 2005 when it comes to Cena, when he was pushed incredibly hard and went over a lot of Internet darlings. Personally, I thought he came of age in 2006 with match with Triple H at Mania and really had a fantastic 2007.

I probably got more milage out of the episode given I'd watched a fair few episodes of 97/98 not too long ago on YouTube. There were a lot of subtle touches done that I don't think a lot of people would've picked up on, shame though that the matches weren't too memorable.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,292
I agree.

I find it very interesting regarding Cena - back before I joined LU, I frequented the GameFAQs Pro Wrestling boards. Now back then, the IWC criticised The Rock for a few reasons:

* He had his "Five Moves Of Doom"
* He used a fairly bland signature move (the People's Elbow)
* He became too ''PG'' on the mic later on
* His Sharpshooter was sloppy

And what do a lot of people now say about Cena?

* He only uses his "Five Moves Of Doom"
* He uses a fairly bland signature move (the Five Knuckle Shuffle)
* He is "too PG"
* His STF is sloppy

Obviously Cena is supposed to be the "new" Rock. But he shares a few similarities with The Great One so has he failed? I'd say no. When Cena stops trying to be funny with his insults and just goes about his business, he's good on the stick IMO. His constant reminders to Barrett that, whatever happens, he will rearrange his face are emotion-charged and pretty good.

But then the WWE goes and pushes Tyler Reks. :crazy:
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,125
:lol: GameFaqs was the first ever board I checked out too (couldn't join, was only 11 but definitely viewed) and it was around the Invasion era and people HATED The Rock and Austin.

I especially remember the complaints about The Rock and the sharpshooter boy did they hate that move.

Back then, I think it was cool to like the 'New Generation' (94-96) and people were always talking up Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart's work as legendary, hell even Diesal was getting a big run in some contigents.

Thankfully people now realise that the new generation kind of sucked, did fairly poor business and the Attitude era was far superior.
 

Special K

Coach
Messages
19,584
Cena gets hated on because all his matches are the same with the same sh*tty endings. Also keep in mind Cena is on tv every week so thats 52 matches of the same sh*t plus ppvs...

I like Cena but every time he wrestles I change the channel because I know what will happen.

Rock got heat from the IWC because of his poor finisher and sharp shooter you are correct however Rock had the ability to stay fresh and play both a heel or a face. Cena refuses to do that.

Rocks run was 96 - 2003 (face, heel for N.O.D, face, heel as world champ, face, time off for movie, face and ended as a cocky heel). Compare that to Cena who has gone from 2002 - present as face, heel, face with a few injuries in there but has pretty much done the same thing week in week out for the same period of time. Booooring

Also - Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart's work was legendary and better than the stuff we get now.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,125
Also - Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart's work was legendary and better than the stuff we get now.

:lol: Michaels' 96 run was embarrassing.

Apart from working with Owen, most of Bret's feuds were pretty bad too.

Also Cena's matches have ended differently in the past, it's incredibly cliche to think he's restricted to certain endings.
 

Special K

Coach
Messages
19,584
:lol: Michaels' 96 run was embarrassing.

Ugggggh... Michaels had some great matches in 96 with Bret at mania(some say this match is a top 5 of all time contender), Vader at summerslam, mankind at mindgames and even pulled out a half decent match from Sid at Survivor series. All very different matches with different styles of workers.

Why was it so embarrassing? Is it worse than the canned crowd pops we have to sit through now. What is next? A laugh track?

Apart from working with Owen, most of Bret's feuds were pretty bad too.
Did you even watch the fued with Michaels? The build up to SS97 with Shawn? The fued with Austin was one of the best in wrestling history. What about the summerslam 92 match with Bulldog? Or the Hart Foundation fued vs the WWF? Hell even the Hart/Goldberg fued at the end was the only watchable thing they had.


Also Cena's matches have ended differently in the past, it's incredibly cliche to think he's restricted to certain endings.
I like Cena but his matches follow the Hogan format of getting beat down then coming back and winning. Again... And again. I never said he was restricted however his matches are booked to make super cena look super.

Also what are Cenas memorable fueds? Hart vs Michaels will go down in history as one of the best if not the best. Who can Cena say he has had that with? Orton? Please. HHH? Edge? Don't really measure up to HBK vs the hitman. Cena should not be sh*t on as much as people do however he is very stale these days.

When did you start watching wrestling pete? Not a shot just interested to know.. It might explain a couple of things :lol:
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,125
96 with Bret at mania(some say this match is a top 5 of all time contender)
Incredibly overated and a lot of the work being done in that match (Michaels working on Hart's leg) are completely forgotten.

Vader at summerslam
Joke of a match and a severe waste of Vader's talent.

mankind at mindgames
Definitely, the only match where Michaels didn't come off as a pussy.

and even pulled out a half decent match from Sid at Survivor series.
:lol: That match was average. The only highlight was seeing Michaels being booed out the building because people were sick of him more than they were sick of Cena.

Did you even watch the fued with Michaels? The build up to SS97 with Shawn?
I was specifically talking about 94-96. 92-93 were good years, 97 was a great year for Hart and in fact his best for my money.

Hart vs Michaels will go down in history as one of the best if not the best.
Really? Their 96 feud was very vanilla, 97 was better but it was more about the backstage stuff then it was about the on air product.

Who can Cena say he has had that with? Orton? Please.
To be fair, their 2007 feud was pretty good.

That feud was the pits, Triple H did a terrible job putting that match over.

Edge? Don't really measure up to HBK vs the hitman.
Edge's best feud period that did the most for him as a wrestler.

Where's Umaga, JBL, Batista, The Undertaker and now Barrett?

Hell even his match with Michaels back in 2007 was right up there as Michaels' best work.
When did you start watching wrestling pete? Not a shot just interested to know.. It might explain a couple of things :lol:
1999 on the eve of Road Wild and spent a lot of that time watching WCW Saturday Night and Thunder repeats on Channel Oh. Kept tabs on the E at that time too.

Since then tracked down a lot of 90's YouTube footage, watched a fair number of dvds, read books and listened to a lot of Meltzer.

What about you?

Don't get me wrong here, Hart was a good wrestler as shown in 92-94 but he didn't exactly have the best run at times. He got dragged into some really stupid feuds and then was basically made into Michaels' whipping boy in 96. His tweener run in 97 was great, good writing and good delivery but the Screw Job basically f**ked Hart's career up and apart from the Benoit match, he never found his potential in Dubbya Cee Dubbya.

Michaels original run though was very overated. He was a much more interesting character, true, but his feuds don't compare.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,292
:lol: GameFaqs was the first ever board I checked out too (couldn't join, was only 11 but definitely viewed) and it was around the Invasion era and people HATED The Rock and Austin.

I especially remember the complaints about The Rock and the sharpshooter boy did they hate that move.

Back then, I think it was cool to like the 'New Generation' (94-96) and people were always talking up Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart's work as legendary, hell even Diesal was getting a big run in some contigents.

Thankfully people now realise that the new generation kind of sucked, did fairly poor business and the Attitude era was far superior.

So true!

Cena gets hated on because all his matches are the same with the same sh*tty endings. Also keep in mind Cena is on tv every week so thats 52 matches of the same sh*t plus ppvs...

I like Cena but every time he wrestles I change the channel because I know what will happen.

Rock got heat from the IWC because of his poor finisher and sharp shooter you are correct however Rock had the ability to stay fresh and play both a heel or a face. Cena refuses to do that.

Rocks run was 96 - 2003 (face, heel for N.O.D, face, heel as world champ, face, time off for movie, face and ended as a cocky heel). Compare that to Cena who has gone from 2002 - present as face, heel, face with a few injuries in there but has pretty much done the same thing week in week out for the same period of time. Booooring

Also - Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart's work was legendary and better than the stuff we get now.

I'm not sure that's accurate. I think Cena will do anything for the company, but Vince feels making his biggest star into a heel wouldn't be worth it in terms of merch sales. Ditto with Rey. I reckon both Cena and Rey could use heel turns but I doubt it's because they refuse to do so, but rather because Vince refuses to allow it. We all know Vince has a...well, "unique" take on things sometimes.

But the comment abiout his character being the same...Since the Attitude Era, that can be applied to everyone. I used to complain and bemoan we had no more "characters" in pro wrestling any more, and I used to think it was dull having John Smith feuding with Chris Brown type of thing.

However I have since then realised why they have done it. And Cena is not alone:

* Triple H, one of my all time faves, has barely changed characters at all. He fronted Evolution and reformed DX. Other than that...

* Orton has been the same guy, face or heel, ever since he made it big.

* Taker only changed to Biker Taker so he could talk more. It was a welcome change, but hardly a revolutionary one.

* Kane was demasked and made to feel and look more human.

* Mysterio has never changed

* Benoit...

The Rock maybe was seen as more entertaining because he was lucky to have guys the calibre of Stone Cold and Angle to work with and work off, and it was during another era of pro wrestling. Much like Cena, his moveset never changed - it was basically just his promos that were different.

I think Cena probably could use a change up, but the criticisms of his skills I feel are either overly harsh or unwarranted entirely. He's not a sloppy wrestler IMO and the only real issue in his matches is the fact he gets beaten down for 5 minutes and then lands the "Five Moves Of Doom" and ends up winning the match. But really - all the legends did it:

* Hogan - usually got beaten down to the point he Hulked up, landed a few punches, whip to the ropes, big boot, leg drop and pin.

* Rock - kip up, block punches, People's Elbow, Rock Bottom, pin or Sharpshooter

* HBK - kip up, few clotheslines, elbow from corner, tuning up the band, Sweet Chin Music, pin

etc.

It's an old formula, but it's a proven one. It explains why they keep using it for Cena.
 

Stonecutter

First Grade
Messages
5,447
I would say that Cena's Nexus work is a as close as we'll ever see him too being a heel in a long long time.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,292
You're probably right, and it's a shame. But I'd say that would be more because Vince doesn't want to lose money, rather than because Cena himself doesn't want to go heel. John Cena is one of those "anything for the business" type of guys and if he was asked to be a heel he'd do it IMO. But Vince probably feels turning his biggest merchandise seller into a heel is a bad move.
 
Messages
15,312
Cena will turn heel in the next 6 months I believe (honestly, I expect him to be a heel at Mania next year), because it's clear to me Vince and co want Orton to be the number 1 face in the company. Once Orton passes Cena in terms of popularity, Cena will turn heel.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,125
Agreed, concept should've stopped after 2007.

In case you missed it, The Miz is the WWE Champ.
 

Matt23

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
16,495
We have a new champion...awesome, not a huge fan of The Miz though, I'd have preferred Barrett to get the belt myself.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,125
I don't know what to make of it myself.

On one hand, I don't think The Miz was ready for the WWE title just yet...World Championship sure but not the WWE belt.

On the other Orton wasn't having that great a reign and Miz will just have a Sheamus esque reign with it anyway so it doesn't really matter in the long run and it rewards one of the hardest working wrestlers in the biz.

In other news, Punk is apparently commentating.
 
Messages
15,312
The Awesome era has begun. I'm a fan of the Miz, reminds me a lot of Chris Jericho (except Jericho is better in the ring). He'll probably hold the belt till RR/EC, this is the time of year where a younger guy gets a decent run with the strap (Sheamus last year, Jeff Hardy the year before, Orton the one before that).
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,125
Edge in 2006 as well.

Although including Orton's is a bit of a stretch, it lasted from October to April.
 
Messages
15,312
I was basically making the point that for the end of year period a lesser name usually holds the strap, while others get involved in planting the seeds for the big PPVs in the early new year (Rumble and Mania). No doubt come Mania, the belt will be with a bigger name (HHH, Cena, Orton) and Miz will go into a fued with a big name guy who is out of the title picture.

Also Raw started king of the ring. Sheamus, Bryan, Jackson and Morrison won their first round matches. Guess who's going to end up in the final there......they could've gone for a bit of unpredictability.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,292
I'm a Miz fan. I'm surprised he got the title, but happy for him. The IWC really gave it to him in spades and even begged him to quit. He worked hard to get where he's at and I, for one, am happy to see a really good guy and a really hard working bloke who loves this business get the just desserts he deserves.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top