Y.N.W.A. Thread (Liverpool fans thread) II

[saint.nick]

I don't care who City were missing, thrashing them 4-1 at emptyhad was a great result regardless.

He also thrashed Southampton 6-1 away.

It's gonna take some time, and with that time he's inevitably gonna make some mistakes.

 

[HayneKloppter]

Yeh cool. Lets line the team up after a draw at home to West Brom that lifted us to 9th. Right on.

I last saw Rodgers play Benteke by himself and watch him fail.

I last saw Rodgers play Coutinho and Lallana together, who dont work at all, and fail.

I last saw Rodgers play Milner as a central midfielder and fail.

All the things Klopp is continuing to do. He isn't fixing Rodgers mess, he is adding to it.

He fired up Anfield when we got a lucky break in 8 minutes of Injury time. That's what it took to take a point of West Brom.

We took 3 points off Chelsea, who are shit, and 3 points off City who were decimated with injuries.

We have taken 1 point from Palace, Newcastle and West Brom.

Our squad, on paper, is actually pretty good. It's the coaching methods that are failing.

we had 27 chances to 4 and still scored 2 goals, we didn't drop points because we couldn't manage a goal ala rodgers recent era. we got exposed because of our inability to defend set pieces which isn't going to change much until klopp gets people that he believes in to do his defending for him.

as far as city and chelsea go, i've said it before, i'll say it again and again....we produce inconstent results because we have a young and inexperienced side, it's that simple. we have an inexperienced side because fsg brainwash you simpletons into believing this is the way to go, when instead consistent performers regardless of age backed up by stars of tomorrow is how you fix inconsistency.

muppets like you chose chose to highlight our "stars" abilities when they shine and chose not to recognise when they fail....and i'll say it again, that's not their fault. it's the fault of fans like you that expect what fsg has given you is going to produce consistent results.

 

[cb4]

we had 27 chances to 4 and still scored 2 goals, we didn't drop points because we couldn't manage a goal ala rodgers recent era. we got exposed because of our inability to defend set pieces which isn't going to change much until klopp gets people that he believes in to do his defending for him.

as far as city and chelsea go, i've said it before, i'll say it again and again....we produce inconstent results because we have a young and inexperienced side, it's that simple. we have an inexperienced side because fsg brainwash you simpletons into believing this is the way to go, when instead consistent performers regardless of age backed up by stars of tomorrow is how you fix inconsistency.

muppets like you chose chose to highlight our "stars" abilities when they shine and chose not to recognise when they fail....and i'll say it again, that's not their fault. it's the fault of fans like you that expect what fsg has given you is going to produce consistent results.

I don't accept anything.

I have been watching this team since you were sucking on your mums tits, so don't tell me what I do and don't accept.

I don't care what you have said, the majority of it is just piss and vinegar anyway. I have been closer to this team than you could ever imagine.

I don't highlight our stars abilities, be cause frankly, we don't really have any. What we have is a very unbalanced squad.
Despite that, we have a world class (sic) manager, who is playing it the exact same way as Rodgers, just with more energy.

That is a fact.

Here is another fact. We have won just 1 home league game under Klopp. Off a James Milner penalty against Swansea. Fact.

Defending set pieces again comes down to the manager. So, thank you. You have highlighted that, and I am glad you did.

Defending set pieces comes from the training ground. That is where your organisation starts and finished. Our defensive line has changed during games, kudos, but nothing about our set pieces has changed. Fact.

Klopp is still playing Benteke up front by himself when he can't lead a line. Fact.

He is still playing an out of form Milner. Fact.

Don't be a child and resort to name calling when you are clearly out of your depth in what you are talking about.

 

[cb4]

I don't care who City were missing, thrashing them 4-1 at emptyhad was a great result regardless.

He also thrashed Southampton 6-1 away.

It's gonna take some time, and with that time he's inevitably gonna make some mistakes.

Good point.

He is going to make some mistakes, and you tolerate that as a fan.

However, making the same mistakes is unacceptable, regardless of who your manager is.

Playing a formation that doesn't suit us, with a striker who can't lead us is what got Rodgers sacked in the first place.

Players like Ibe and Lallana with no end product or creativity are being given preference over a guy like Firmino.

Whilst Firmino is not in form, his game against a depleted City showed some of his capabilities.
He really hasn't been given time to gel with Coutinho, due to injury or benching. That's both Rodgers and Klopps fault.

Taking Coutinho off for Ibe was a criminal substitution. Ok, Coutinho may have been gassed, but he took off our only creative player and replaced him with a kid who cant shoot, dribble, use is left foot and has zero creativity.

He took Lallana off 10 minutes too late as he was puffed just running to the sideline.

So he gives our second most creative player 5 minutes plus stoppage time to come on and do something. Wrong call that.

Starting Benteke by himself his horrendous. Rodgers got it wrong and now Klipperty Klopp is getting it wrong.
He either needs to be an impact sub, or start with a mobile player. Origi, whilst looking like a donkey when he started, is now looking slimmer, fitter and more agile. He looks like the guy who kept Lukaku out of the world cup starting line up.

We paid 35 mil for Andy Carroll, sold him for half and replaced him with a guy 3 million cheaper, who plays the exact same way. Rodgers learnt nothing, and it seems as if Klopp is too stubborn to go against the grain.

I am not hating on Klopp, as mentioned, he is a world class manager. But eventually he will need to bite the bullet or we will get the same results.
Draws at home to shite teams with the occasional win that gets everyone excited and believing. In what though?

 

[saint.nick]

Good point.

He is going to make some mistakes, and you tolerate that as a fan.

However, making the same mistakes is unacceptable, regardless of who your manager is.

Playing a formation that doesn't suit us, with a striker who can't lead us is what got Rodgers sacked in the first place.

Players like Ibe and Lallana with no end product or creativity are being given preference over a guy like Firmino.

Whilst Firmino is not in form, his game against a depleted City showed some of his capabilities.
He really hasn't been given time to gel with Coutinho, due to injury or benching. That's both Rodgers and Klopps fault.

Taking Coutinho off for Ibe was a criminal substitution. Ok, Coutinho may have been gassed, but he took off our only creative player and replaced him with a kid who cant shoot, dribble, use is left foot and has zero creativity.

He took Lallana off 10 minutes too late as he was puffed just running to the sideline.

So he gives our second most creative player 5 minutes plus stoppage time to come on and do something. Wrong call that.

Starting Benteke by himself his horrendous. Rodgers got it wrong and now Klipperty Klopp is getting it wrong.
He either needs to be an impact sub, or start with a mobile player. Origi, whilst looking like a donkey when he started, is now looking slimmer, fitter and more agile. He looks like the guy who kept Lukaku out of the world cup starting line up.

We paid 35 mil for Andy Carroll, sold him for half and replaced him with a guy 3 million cheaper, who plays the exact same way. Rodgers learnt nothing, and it seems as if Klopp is too stubborn to go against the grain.

I am not hating on Klopp, as mentioned, he is a world class manager. But eventually he will need to bite the bullet or we will get the same results.
Draws at home to shite teams with the occasional win that gets everyone excited and believing. In what though?

He may be persisting with Benteke like this just to give him time and see whether things can start to click. But I agree on Benteke...I don't think we have won a single game under Klopp when he has started? Our inability to beat deep set teams is not down to the whole team, it's down to how we play when Benteke is on the field. If we have Origi or Sturridge on the field then we'd probably have better luck. You can't expect to penetrate deep defences when your lone striker is basically rooted into the box like a tree. Perhaps Klopp wants to give Benteke some time to see what he can do with a more ground-based game.

 

[HayneKloppter]

I don't accept anything.

I have been watching this team since you were sucking on your mums tits, so don't tell me what I do and don't accept.

I don't care what you have said, the majority of it is just piss and vinegar anyway. I have been closer to this team than you could ever imagine.

I don't highlight our stars abilities, be cause frankly, we don't really have any. What we have is a very unbalanced squad.
Despite that, we have a world class (sic) manager, who is playing it the exact same way as Rodgers, just with more energy.

That is a fact.

Here is another fact. We have won just 1 home league game under Klopp. Off a James Milner penalty against Swansea. Fact.

Defending set pieces again comes down to the manager. So, thank you. You have highlighted that, and I am glad you did.

Defending set pieces comes from the training ground. That is where your organisation starts and finished. Our defensive line has changed during games, kudos, but nothing about our set pieces has changed. Fact.

Klopp is still playing Benteke up front by himself when he can't lead a line. Fact.

He is still playing an out of form Milner. Fact.

Don't be a child and resort to name calling when you are clearly out of your depth in what you are talking about.

another plonker who needs half a page to rant about "not caring" what someone thinks of them. :lol:

i've been following my club since the 70s across 2 generations, so unless you're over 50 i'd say you've also pulled that one out of your arse along with your other "piss and vinegar"

all your FACTS (which aren't facts to begin with eg milner playing wide right when accused of playing central) again as i pointed out the first time are IRRELEVANT because they haven't caused us to not score goals ala rodgers.

you're a typical noons bandwagon fan because of your typical nature to over-react, raving after a win, and acting like paisley after a loss, rinse repeat....declaring "analytics" of a manager 2 months into a job where his results are STILL better than rodgers throughout his entire 3 year stewardship........

FACT

 

[cb4]

another plonker who needs half a page to rant about "not caring" what someone thinks of them. :lol:

i've been following my club since the 70s across 2 generations, so unless you're over 50 i'd say you've also pulled that one out of your arse along with your other "piss and vinegar"

all your FACTS (which aren't facts to begin with eg milner playing wide right when accused of playing central) again as i pointed out the first time are IRRELEVANT because they haven't caused us to not score goals ala rodgers.

you're a typical noons bandwagon fan because of your typical nature to over-react, raving after a win, and acting like paisley after a loss, rinse repeat....declaring "analytics" of a manager 2 months into a job where his results are STILL better than rodgers throughout his entire 3 year stewardship........

FACT

If you have followed them since the 70's, and are indeed 50 years old, I would suggest going to tafe or somewhere and learn how to spell, because the 50+ years you have lived have let you down in a big way mate.

So again, I am not surprised that you have no idea about the game of football, when you have no idea about the basics of life.

Cheerio.

 

[HayneKloppter]

If you have followed them since the 70's, and are indeed 50 years old, I would suggest going to tafe or somewhere and learn how to spell, because the 50+ years you have lived have let you down in a big way mate.

So again, I am not surprised that you have no idea about the game of football, when you have no idea about the basics of life.

Cheerio.

1. i ain't 50
2. i failed tafe
3. you just made dunkirk proud :lol:

 

[Mogsheen Jadwat]

If you have followed them since the 70's, and are indeed 50 years old, I would suggest going to tafe or somewhere and learn how to spell, because the 50+ years you have lived have let you down in a big way mate.

So again, I am not surprised that you have no idea about the game of football, when you have no idea about the basics of life.

Cheerio.

lol
you know you're failing bad when you resort to grammar/spelling cop routine.


----------

imo the problem with the side is simple, it might be Klopp running the show but it's still Rodgers' players and they're still naturally reverting to the way he wanted them to play when they're under pressure.

You don't shake off a couple of years of routine in 2 months. That's how long it's been. Punctured by two international breaks. Let's get some perspective and revise our expectations for this entire season. No manager in the world, not one, would come in and have us taking down all and sundry - this isn't football manager.

People are complaining that he's playing Benteke, that Lallana and Ibe have no creativity, that Milner is still playing - what options does he have? Apart from the last two games, Origi looked well out of his depth, Sturridge misses 3 games for every 1 he plays, everyone complains when Allen plays cause he's usually anonymous. Coutinho just came back from a hamstring injury and people are complaining he got subbed, would you prefer he tore a hamstring and be out for 2 months?

Let Klopp play out the season without expectation, give him time to work out who's capable of playing his way after a decent period of time, and give him a couple of transfer windows to bring in his style of players. Then let's judge him. If you can't do that, maybe Liverpool isn't for you, because we're not winning the title this season. Probably not next either.

 

[cb4]

imo the problem with the side is simple, it might be Klopp running the show but it's still Rodgers' players and they're still naturally reverting to the way he wanted them to play when they're under pressure.

Don't cop that. Sorry. Poor excuse.

You don't shake off a couple of years of routine in 2 months. That's how long it's been. Punctured by two international breaks. Let's get some perspective and revise our expectations for this entire season. No manager in the world, not one, would come in and have us taking down all and sundry - this isn't football manager.

No one said it is football manager, but the fact is, he is still making the same mistakes as the manager he took over from. Same formation, same game plan, same donkey leading the line.

People are complaining that he's playing Benteke, that Lallana and Ibe have no creativity, that Milner is still playing - what options does he have? Apart from the last two games, Origi looked well out of his depth, Sturridge misses 3 games for every 1 he plays, everyone complains when Allen plays cause he's usually anonymous. Coutinho just came back from a hamstring injury and people are complaining he got subbed, would you prefer he tore a hamstring and be out for 2 months?

No, I wouldn't want Coutinho to suffer a hamstring injury. Ridiculous. I am not complaining he got subbed either, imo he should have been on the bench. I am complaining that he took off our most creative player, for our least creative player. Is that hard to comprehend?

The options he has, are to change things up. It is clear that the formation he is using is not working. Finding a balance is what good managers do.
Yes, Origi looked out of his depth, but he is a class kid. We have been playing with an immobile striker who cannot lead a line. He needs a partner, or Firmino needs to start at striker.

Let Klopp play out the season without expectation, give him time to work out who's capable of playing his way after a decent period of time, and give him a couple of transfer windows to bring in his style of players. Then let's judge him. If you can't do that, maybe Liverpool isn't for you, because we're not winning the title this season. Probably not next either.

Liverpool isn't for me? Please. We haven't won the league for 20+ years and we aren't going to win it for another 20 either.
Trophies are scarce and hardly come by these days, but I will still be at Anfield in January.

We need more transfer periods I agree. I even said on previous pages we are in a rebuild stage. But we are still seeing the same thing.

Teixera carved up a league cup game, Klopp complained he wasn't eligible for Europa, but we haven't sighted him since. He is more creative than Lallana. He should be a bench option.

I am not begrudging Klopp as our manager. I haven't been this excited over a manager since Benetiz. I won't say who previous to him, because he essentially destroyed us.
I am begrudging him not changing things.

I am soley putting the loss to Newcastle on him and the draw with WBA, because he got the game plans, and formation wrong. That is on the manager. That is football.

He has to cop the good with the bad, and for the last 2 weeks he has been bad.

 

[saint.nick]

We aren't going to win it for another 20? Come on Chris that's a little hysterical...

 

[Mogsheen Jadwat]

Don't cop that. Sorry. Poor excuse.





No one said it is football manager, but the fact is, he is still making the same mistakes as the manager he took over from. Same formation, same game plan, same donkey leading the line.

It's not an excuse or anything else you want it to be. As I said, Klopp has had 2 months with 2 international breaks and injuries to 3-4 key players. He is not a magician, he can only do so much in a certain time period. It is not unreasonable to suggest the hangover of Rodgers is still in effect. If players were able to just upload a gameplan and way of playing just like that, there would be little need for training sessions, just tell 'em what to do before they run out and that's that. Like anyone in any job, when you're confused/under pressure, you revert to what you know. What this current squad knows is how it's been playing for the last 18 months - that's not Klopp's fault.

No, I wouldn't want Coutinho to suffer a hamstring injury. Ridiculous. I am not complaining he got subbed either, imo he should have been on the bench. I am complaining that he took off our most creative player, for our least creative player. Is that hard to comprehend?

It is difficult to comprehend yes, because anyone outside of Coutinho is our least creative player. You are complaining we swapped Coutinho with anyone, but the reality is, it didn't matter who we brought on because we were going to suffer a dip as a result. You can blame Klopp for protecting a player to prevent further injury, but you can't blame him for not having enough creative players at his disposal - he wasn't here in the summer.

The options he has, are to change things up. It is clear that the formation he is using is not working. Finding a balance is what good managers do.
Yes, Origi looked out of his depth, but he is a class kid. We have been playing with an immobile striker who cannot lead a line. He needs a partner, or Firmino needs to start at striker.

He has changed things up - he played Firmino at striker and helped us win at City and Chelsea. he got more points away against those sides in 2 matches than rodgers did in 3 years. Doesn't mean it will work every match though - hence why he's seeing what works and what doesn't. As I said previously, he didn't get a pre-season to evaluate players and what they could/couldn't do. he has to do this on the run. he can't just try something, doesn't work, reload the old save file and try again.

Liverpool isn't for me? Please. We haven't won the league for 20+ years and we aren't going to win it for another 20 either.
Trophies are scarce and hardly come by these days, but I will still be at Anfield in January.

We need more transfer periods I agree. I even said on previous pages we are in a rebuild stage. But we are still seeing the same thing.

Teixera carved up a league cup game, Klopp complained he wasn't eligible for Europa, but we haven't sighted him since. He is more creative than Lallana. He should be a bench option.

I am not begrudging Klopp as our manager. I haven't been this excited over a manager since Benetiz. I won't say who previous to him, because he essentially destroyed us.
I am begrudging him not changing things.

I am soley putting the loss to Newcastle on him and the draw with WBA, because he got the game plans, and formation wrong. That is on the manager. That is football.

He has to cop the good with the bad, and for the last 2 weeks he has been bad.

we are seeing the same thing because of the reasons aforementioned - same players, and no time to properly evaluate it apart from in games that matter.

I'm not saying you can't criticise Klopp, by all means eat your heart out, just understand that there are reasons why he is doing things - they are pretty obvious if you look past the initial anger of drawing/losing games.

 

[cb4]

We aren't going to win it for another 20? Come on Chris that's a little hysterical...

Is it? We haven't won if for 26 years. History is on my side in that statement.

 

[saint.nick]

Is it? We haven't won if for 26 years. History is on my side in that statement.

History is irrelevant, it doesn't condemn you to any fate. It's about the choices and actions you make now. I don't see the point in being super excited about Klopp if you don't think he will win us the league.

 

[cb4]

History is irrelevant, it doesn't condemn you to any fate. It's about the choices and actions you make now. I don't see the point in being super excited about Klopp if you don't think he will win us the league.

Why? I was super excited about Benetiz and he didn't win us one? Why can't I be excited about Klopp?
History is not irrelevant at all.

I don't think Klopp will win us the league, but I do think he will get us back in the top 4 every 2 out of 3 years.

 

[HayneKloppter]

lfc's problems sit well above klopp, it involves strategy, strategy is long term.

get off the champs manager and realise this and your disappointments will go away

 

[saint.nick]

Why? I was super excited about Benetiz and he didn't win us one? Why can't I be excited about Klopp?
History is not irrelevant at all.

I don't think Klopp will win us the league, but I do think he will get us back in the top 4 every 2 out of 3 years.

That's not even exciting though. If the best we can hope for is the odd top 4 finish then I don't see the point in getting that excited. Finishing top 4 is only exciting when its with a view to use as a platform for greater things.

It doesn't matter if Benitez didn't win, you are talking in retrospect. When he signed you were excited because you thought he could win us the league. I think thats how every Reds fan was feeling after what he did in Spain, plus we were already in the top 4.

Can you please explain how history is relevant? It does not condemn us to anything. Like I said, the only relevant factor is the choices we take right now.

 

[saint.nick]

lfc's problems sit well above klopp, it involves strategy, strategy is long term.

get off the champs manager and realise this and your disappointments will go away

Chris' comments only make sense if LFC have had the same unfruitful strategy ever since 1990, which is not the case. I'm sure it's changed a number of times since then. Hiring Klopp is a great strategy

 

[HayneKloppter]

Chris' comments only make sense if LFC have had the same unfruitful strategy ever since 1990, which is not the case. I'm sure it's changed a number of times since then. Hiring Klopp is a great strategy

His comments across 2 managers under the same ownership?

Klopp is a world class manager, there is no doubt of this but all managers need time to implement their ideologies...be glad you don't have van gaal

I was skeptical with Rodgers despite the treatment of dalgleish but I embraced the same patience for him as I am expressing for klopp. Rodgers in the end was let down by fsg as much as he had his own short comings. The decisions at their top far exceed the impact of any manager we employ

 

[Mogsheen Jadwat]

Rodgers in the end was let down by fsg as much as he had his own short comings. The decisions at their top far exceed the impact of any manager we employ

Nah, he just wasn't that good in the end. He had one extraordinary season where everything went right for us on the back of two forwards in out-of-this-world form, and outside of that, two very mediocre seasons.

He was pretty much to clever for his own good changing tactics 3 times in one game to show how superior he was tactically ... a shame he couldn't just find one that actually worked for more than 2 games in a row.