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Y.N.W.A. Thread (Liverpool fans thread) II

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Jack_Napier

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That site I told you about mate. Henry and FSG have been getting lots of advice about making sure the next step we take is the right one. I think results like the one overnight will speed up the process of giving Rodgers the tap on the shoulder.
 

saint.nick

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That site I told you about mate. Henry and FSG have been getting lots of advice about making sure the next step we take is the right one. I think results like the one overnight will speed up the process of giving Rodgers the tap on the shoulder.

Jesus, how long do you think he's got? I wouldn't be surprised if it was done quickly. FSG aren't ones to get too emotionally involved. Otherwise they wouldn't be who they are today.
 

Jack_Napier

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Who knows mate, but the longer he stays the worse position we will be in. Honestly wouldn't be suprised to see him gone before Xmas. If we get done by Ludogorets, which I'm expecting, I'd be doing it ASAP.

Particularly if DeBoer is ready to move and Ajax open to it mid season. It's a no brainer in my mind. Throw the bank at Cryuff as DoF, as he apparently turned us down before and start the bloody transition period yet again. One thing DeBoer will trust the youth unlike BR.
 

saint.nick

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Another decision I don't understand. Loaned out Texeira and Ibe, and then pays 20 million for Markovic who he doesn't play that much anyway? He wanted depth yet we already had depth in some perfectly capable youngsters! I am absolutely confident that someone like De Boer would get our football operation intact, especially if he brought Cruyff with him, one of the true philosophers of the game. Ajax is a f**king rampant breeding ground of football scholars (okay I'm being romantic :lol:) and magicians like Ibra, Suarez, list goes on...

Our corporate operation is already pretty good. Ayre and Werner are doing a fine job.
 
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Jack_Napier

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Mate the biggest cluster f**k of a decision was loaning Manquillo for 2 years but selling Kelly and loaning out Wisdom who play or can play in the same positions.

Freezing out players like Suso, Sakho and Toure despite players in their position playing like dog shit. Too much talk of trusting youngsters and not enough action.
 

saint.nick

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Look I can actually defend not playing Toure or Sakho by arguing that there needs to be a consistent CB partnership, and Rodgers views that to be Lovren and Skrtel. The problem is that he hasn't really chosen well, as neither are leading. Skrtel has never been a leader, while to be fair to Rodgers, Lovren has seemingly always been one- until he came to us :lol:

I guess I can also understand selling Kelly because he never played enough games through being injured so much. But there was no point in loaning Wisdom and then getting Manquillo. I have a feeling that Suso is one player that De Boer would love.
 

Jack_Napier

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Yeah agree mate, tho I think it may be too far gone to keep Suso. We've stunted his career, like we have a few others. Think he's nailed on to leave on a free when his contract is up. I believe we tried to get him to sign a new contract recently with no luck.

Think suso has similar qualities to David Silva, obviously not world class like him, but Suso could be a fine player if trusted. Bagged a goal in his only appearance for us this season as well.
 

Knightmare

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I want to see this team win the League and more Champions Leagues as much as any other Liverpool fan, however I want more than that. I want a team who are consistently in the running for titles and silverware. I want a team with a strong culture. This is not achieved by constantly sacking managers when results take a turn for the worse or they make underwhelming purchases in a transfer window. Sacking the manager means you have to rebuild the teams' culture yet again- haven't we done that enough these past 5 years?

While I agree that any manager (and the players) need to be held accountable for results long-term, I feel that the #rodgersout# brigade are jumping the gun and forgetting that:

a) Not only has the #1 goalscorer from the squad last season departed, but the #2 goalscorer has been out injured virtually all season thus far, and

b) BR made purchases in the last transfer window before that #2 goalscorer was injured.

If Sturridge comes back and BR's attempts to bolster the squad come January see little or no progress then sure, FSG ought to be giving more thought to a replacement. But I'm done with this "Let's sack the manager and bring in manager A,B,C who is the answer to all our problems because he's won stuff before with (insert team name)" mentality. More often than not, it's a bandaid solution and you end up going round in circles chasing some miracle cure.

Heaven's sake, in spite of everything else, we're 12 rounds in and Liverpool are just 5 points out of the Champions League spots, but some 'fans' are carrying on like a bunch of entitlement-minded plastics who sound like they pay attention to little else about the club than the match day results!
 

saint.nick

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I want to see this team win the League and more Champions Leagues as much as any other Liverpool fan, however I want more than that. I want a team who are consistently in the running for titles and silverware. I want a team with a strong culture. This is not achieved by constantly sacking managers when results take a turn for the worse or they make underwhelming purchases in a transfer window. Sacking the manager means you have to rebuild the teams' culture yet again- haven't we done that enough these past 5 years?

While I agree that any manager (and the players) need to be held accountable for results long-term, I feel that the #rodgersout# brigade are jumping the gun and forgetting that:

a) Not only has the #1 goalscorer from the squad last season departed, but the #2 goalscorer has been out injured virtually all season thus far, and

b) BR made purchases in the last transfer window before that #2 goalscorer was injured.

If Sturridge comes back and BR's attempts to bolster the squad come January see little or no progress then sure, FSG ought to be giving more thought to a replacement. But I'm done with this "Let's sack the manager and bring in manager A,B,C who is the answer to all our problems because he's won stuff before with (insert team name)" mentality. More often than not, it's a bandaid solution and you end up going round in circles chasing some miracle cure.

Heaven's sake, in spite of everything else, we're 12 rounds in and Liverpool are just 5 points out of the Champions League spots, but some 'fans' are carrying on like a bunch of entitlement-minded plastics who sound like they pay attention to little else about the club than the match day results!

Trust me, we're not so narrow-minded that all we're concerned about is results. It's a lot more to do with the way we're losing rather than just simply losing. The way that we are losing is ultimately not offering much hope for the future. Everyone would be a lot easier on BR if we were still performing decently but just missing a trick.

Look, I completely understand where you're coming from... But the problem with relying on BR to correctly bolster the squad in January is he is piss poor at recruitment. He pays big money for second tier players who more often that not don't cut it. He's bought over 20 players in his time here, and only two have been a bona fide success, which is actually being quite generous to Coutinho, if you ask me. Meanwhile over at Southampton, they have showed what smart, shrewd recruitment can deliver.

Another problem is that a huge reason for our downfall is our defence, and it's not some kind of funk that's unusually different to how Rodgers' football teams usually operate. He has never managed a defensively reliable team. So therefore, do I have any reason to believe that our defensive problems will be cured under Rodgers? Of course I don't. The only thing which proves to paper over this massive crack is having 1 or 2 really good strikers, i.e. SAS- which brings me to this:

Rodgers' set up of how we play is seemingly so flawed that we are actually relying on ONE player to make everything work for us. We spent over 100 million pounds to cope with situations like this, so why are we using the injury of one player as an excuse for being so bad!? I don't see how that is indicative of a team that has a sustainable, long-term future?
How are we going to progress if our manager will probably keep on buying dross that has to, as a team, shape around a brilliant striker that spends more time off the field than on it? It's really no coincidence that our last, and only great performance of the season, featured Daniel Sturridge. It's all well and good to see how our team goes once Sturridge is back, but don't you think that's a bit of a bandaid solution too? Considering that this guy requires a million bandaids himself to get fit? Let me re-emphasise that people no longer have faith in BR anymore largely because we don't have faith in his recruitment abilities. Waiting to see if we buy good players and start playing better after January, is almost like waiting to see if you win the lotto.

I think it's fine calling for the manager's head, as long as you believe you have a viable solution. If BR fails, which is looking increasingly likely, then unfortunately there is no other option than to rebuild again! That's why Jack is keen for a partnership of De Boer and Cruyff, because they seem like guys who know exactly what they're doing. In our opinion, these guys (especially Cruyff) could completely overhaul how our football operations are conducted at the club.

I don't think we're trying to knee-jerk. We're just trying to see around corners.
 
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I've read a number of critiques of Rogers over the last 3 years, and one thing which stands out a lot is that with his transfer signings he tends to sign players who are of a similar style - smaller, quick, good passing players, who can cover multiple positions in midfield. There is some truth to this when you look at his most recent off season signings. There were very few out and out wingers signed, most like Lallana had their success playing in central midfield yet have been deployed wide.

Also, I wonder whether some of the signings are solely Rogers or are influenced by FSG's philosophy of looking at re-sale value for players they signed? Hence the propensity to look for players they can develop and sell at a profit rather than signing a few, really high quality players. I mean despite Suarez's faults, the one thing you could ever say about him is that he would quit trying when on the field - he would bust a gut in every game. Whom would you say that about now in this Liverpool squad?
 

saint.nick

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I don't think it's solely about finding players that they can sell for a profit. The attempt to buy Sanchez is a case in point. Also, would you think that buying Lovren for 20 million, Markovic for 20 million and Lallana for 25 million is a good reflection of such a philosophy? It tells me that it's either a very loose rule that they abide by when they feel like it, or they're absolutely terrible at implementing it. It's interesting to know however that our scouting team were recently sacked...
 

Knightmare

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Hearing of the scouting team being sacked is positive- it indicates the board is looking at improving the club at a nuts and bolts level, as opposed to relying on a new manager or star signing to solve all the problems. De Boer and Cruyf sound like a managerial pair that could be worth taking a gamble on- as long as the club is prepared to give them time to enact the changes as they see fit and not put a line through their names the moment the team struggles. Man United were patient and showed faith in Fergie- despite the fans growing restless and wanting him sacked- and look at how it paid off for them!

Heaven knows, the biggest problem with Liverpool the past 25 years has been consistency. In that time there have been probably 4 seasons where the regular team has been a serious title contender. Apart from that, there hasn't been much in the way of sustained pressure. The haters bag the club and its' fans off for dwelling on past glories, but how on Earth can anybody expect the club to develop a strong culture of success and solidarity if managers are being chopped and changed every few seasons? Granted, the 90's was a bit of a hangover from the golden era, and Roy Hodgson was a complete 'WTF?' appointment from Day 1, but I'd at least hope FSG realise that resurrecting the club to former glory is going to require patience and solid foundations.

If BR has to go, so be it (even though I am prepared to reserve judgement on him a little longer). But please- no quick fixes as his replacement! No big name managers with little more than an overseas reputation, no cut-price managers either. We need a manager with a clear idea of how they want their teams to play and the culture they want their players to be a part of, and a record indicating that allowing them to do this brings repeated success that is attributed to more than a fluke season.

Liverpool don't have the money that Chelsea or City have to offer a manager, but they have enough to attract the sort of manager I've just mentioned. We may not be able to spend the most, but we can spend the wisest. That's what's most important.
 

saint.nick

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Hearing of the scouting team being sacked is positive- it indicates the board is looking at improving the club at a nuts and bolts level, as opposed to relying on a new manager or star signing to solve all the problems. De Boer and Cruyf sound like a managerial pair that could be worth taking a gamble on- as long as the club is prepared to give them time to enact the changes as they see fit and not put a line through their names the moment the team struggles. Man United were patient and showed faith in Fergie- despite the fans growing restless and wanting him sacked- and look at how it paid off for them!

Heaven knows, the biggest problem with Liverpool the past 25 years has been consistency. In that time there have been probably 4 seasons where the regular team has been a serious title contender. Apart from that, there hasn't been much in the way of sustained pressure. The haters bag the club and its' fans off for dwelling on past glories, but how on Earth can anybody expect the club to develop a strong culture of success and solidarity if managers are being chopped and changed every few seasons? Granted, the 90's was a bit of a hangover from the golden era, and Roy Hodgson was a complete 'WTF?' appointment from Day 1, but I'd at least hope FSG realise that resurrecting the club to former glory is going to require patience and solid foundations.

If BR has to go, so be it (even though I am prepared to reserve judgement on him a little longer). But please- no quick fixes as his replacement! No big name managers with little more than an overseas reputation, no cut-price managers either. We need a manager with a clear idea of how they want their teams to play and the culture they want their players to be a part of, and a record indicating that allowing them to do this brings repeated success that is attributed to more than a fluke season.

Liverpool don't have the money that Chelsea or City have to offer a manager, but they have enough to attract the sort of manager I've just mentioned. We may not be able to spend the most, but we can spend the wisest. That's what's most important.

That's why Jack and I advocate for De Boer. De Boer is relatively young manager who knows how he wants his team to play, yet he still has pull power to attract players. But you don't understand how insanely good it would be to have Cruyff at the club too. He is the biggest football genius going around mate. Hugely responsible for La Masia. Hugely responsible for Ajax's world-renowned football development. Significantly influential for Spain's success from 2008-2012. He has massive pull power, and he would help completely overhaul the team culture, and how football things are run at the club, for the better.

The sackings of the scouts is great news though, no disrespect to them. While Rodgers supposedly has the final say on transfers, his scouts have IMO done an appalling job. A big key to long term success is wise recruitment, and overall, we haven't been great at that since the 80s.
 

Jack_Napier

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The problem is the Transfer committee was brought in by FSG because Of BR.s reckless spending. They've both been dreadful barring a few signings. To me it seems the whole club is lost. There doesn't see to be a clear path for the academy grads and youth players. No clear plan for what our football style is so therefore we go after the players CA is talking a about. The play anywhere in the attacking mid type of player instead of actually addressing the right areas.

We seem to have bought a lot of players the past 2-3 seasons that don't get game time, are then loaned out until we sell for no profit or the players contract runs down. This comes from not having a DoF IMO, everything Nick said about Cryuff is exactly why I'd love him. The good thing is FSG know how good he is and have tried to get him in the past. No harm in going back surely, specially if DeBoer is a chance to come.

We spent 110 million this window just gone,realistically a net spend of 50 as we got 62 odd for Luis. But the squad has gone back at rapid rate it's almost like watching the Hodgson days.
 

saint.nick

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We were actually starting to make some progress with the academy, thanks to Rafa, but I don't know what's happened now. When exactly did we approach Cruyff?
 

Jack_Napier

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FSG apparently approached him before BR I think.he said he wasn't interested in the position at the time.
 

Foz

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£87 million of this years transfers sitting on the bench and Super Mario not available.
We still didn't have a striker on the bench and played 1 up front against Stoke.
Luckily Stoke can't score at Anfield for whatever reason(they sure came close a few times today).
Any other side would be considering parting ways with the manager.
After all the hype about him last year he's still won-nothing.
After saying that we are still alive at least in the Champions League.
All that money spent and there is still places for Allen Johnston and Lucas.
At least Johnston showed some ticker when scoring the goal.
We've gone from the entertainers to be more boring than Chelsea which shows just how run down the club is at present.
 
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saint.nick

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Johnson has copped a lot of flak but I admire the courage he exhibited to score that goal. If he went in half-arsed it would have been 0-0.
 
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