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Ye Shewen

butchmcdick

Post Whore
Messages
52,250
I don't know how many other people watched the foxtel call of the 200 IM but at the end bourbon bec basically accused her of being a drug cheat. She bought up the east Germans and previous Chinese drug cheats then went onto say that the more she sees of she wen the morse suspicious she gets.
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,595
I don't know how many other people watched the foxtel call of the 200 IM but at the end bourbon bec basically accused her of being a drug cheat. She bought up the east Germans and previous Chinese drug cheats then went onto say that the more she sees of she wen the morse suspicious she gets.

I heard Gerald Whateley speaking out this morning about ill informed comments from the Australian television media in respect of Shiwen, so I assume that he istalking about bourbon bec...

Says that it is ignorance as Shiwen has demonstated a steady progression in best times over the past couple of years...
 

butchmcdick

Post Whore
Messages
52,250
I heard Gerald Whateley speaking out this morning about ill informed comments from the Australian television media in respect of Shiwen, so I assume that he istalking about bourbon bec...

Says that it is ignorance as Shiwen has demonstated a steady progression in best times over the past couple of years...

I get what you are saying Buffalo about the hypocritical nature of the attitudes here about doping. I concede that if shewen was an Australian the same media shitting on this girl would be talking about what a great performance she put in.

Suzie O'Niel said repeatedly that she didn't think that shewen was a drug cheat but then in the next breath said she remembered the 94 world champs where the Chinese womens swimmers won 12 of the 14 golds on offer.

1992, 1996, 2000 - Chinese Women's Swim Team

Mike Hewitt/Allsport/Getty Images
From nothing to four Golds at the 1992 World Champs and the 1992 Olympics to 12 Golds at the 1994 World Champs. That kind of improvement is questionable. At the 94 Asian Games, 11 Chinese women swimmers tested positive for dihydrotestosterone; at the 96 Olympics they only won a single gold medal, and no positive tests. 98 World Champs and four swimmers tested positive, plus human growth hormone was found in a swimmer's luggage. Before the 2000 Olympics, China removed four women from its squad for odd test results and no swimmer from China earned any medals. At the 2004 Olympics, none of the swimmers tested positive and they earned one gold medal. That is a a lot of up and down in the medal count, and a lot of positive drug tests.

1996 - Michelle Smith de Bruin (Ireland)

David Cannon/Allsport/Getty Images
Big leaps form previous swimming results are always doubtful. Up jumped Michelle de Bruin from Ireland. At the 1996 Olympic Games she won gold medals in the 400 IM, 400 Free, and the 200 IM, plus a bronze in the 200 Fly. de Bruin was accused of doping by another swimmer, Janet Evans. Evans finished 9th and was shut out of the medal round in the 400 IM, so many thought it was just "sour grapes" - but maybe it wasn't. de Bruin tested clean in 1996, but in 1998 she was banned for tampering with a urine sample. The sample had high levels of alcohol. Even though it was tampered with, testers still found traces of androstenedione. Michelle de Bruin was banned for four years in 1998, appealed, lost the case, and retired.

http://swimming.about.com/od/swimmingolympics/tp/Olympic-Swimming-Controversy.htm

I guess what I am saying is that if we (or Lithuania) had the history of drug use in female swimming that China unfortunately people will question female Chinese swimmers who win by such large margins.
 

Thomas

First Grade
Messages
9,658
So Stephanie Rice wasn't suss at all for shaving two second off her PB in just a few months?

Let's be real... If Ye Shewen didn't have slanty eyes and spoke with an Australian accent you'd all be talking about how f**kin' wonderful she is.

Did Steph Rice swim a faster split than the gold medalist male in the same event? Dude, she swam faster than both Lochte and Phelps.

Also, apparently another 16yo member of her squad was caught doping with EPO a few months ago. Her last international meet was in July last year.
 
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Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
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153,760
Shewen may very well be legit, the problem being her country has a pretty poor rep to people are gonna be quick to accuse.

The problem is that alot of performance enhancers are undetectable now days.

No one ever suspected Carl Lewis, did they ?
 

butchmcdick

Post Whore
Messages
52,250
Shewen may very well be legit, the problem being her country has a pretty poor rep to people are gonna be quick to accuse.

The problem is that alot of performance enhancers are undetectable now days.

No one ever suspected Carl Lewis, did they ?

Yes they did just like they suspected Flo Jo

Stimulant use
In 2003, Dr. Wade Exum, the United States Olympic Committee's director of drug control administration from 1991 to 2000, gave copies of documents to Sports Illustrated which revealed that some 100 American athletes who failed drug tests and should have been prevented from competing in the Olympics were nevertheless cleared to compete. Among those athletes was Lewis.[74]
It was revealed that Lewis tested positive three times before the 1988 Olympics for pseudoephedrine, ephedrine, and phenylpropanolamine, banned stimulants and bronchodilators also found in cold medication, and had been banned from the Seoul Olympics and from competition for six months. The USOC accepted his claim of inadvertent use and overturned the decision. Fellow Santa Monica Track Club teammates Joe DeLoach and Floyd Heard were also found to have the same banned stimulants in their systems, and were cleared to compete for the same reason.[75][76]
The positive results occurred at the Olympic Trials in July 1988 where athletes were required to declare on the drug-testing forms "over-the-counter medication, prescription drugs and any other substances you have taken by mouth, injection or by suppository."
"Carl did nothing wrong. There was never intent. He was never told, you violated the rules," said Martin D. Singer, Lewis's lawyer, who also said that Lewis had inadvertently taken the banned stimulants in an over-the-counter herbal remedy.[77] "The only thing I can say is I think it's unfortunate what Wade Exum is trying to do," said Lewis. "I don't know what people are trying to make out of nothing because everyone was treated the same, so what are we talking about? I don't get it."[78] The International Olympic Committee's medical commission chairman, Arne Ljungqvist, said the Exum documents "fit a pattern" of failure to report on positive drug cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lewis#Stimulant_use
 

Karl

Juniors
Messages
2,393
There is no way that kid is clean.

- China have a history, a proven history, of systemic and institutionalised doping. So yes, the fact she is from China is relevant.
- Her splits indicate that she was actually holding back in the first 2/3's of the race according to an expert.
- her final freestyle leg is simply inexplicable for a range of reasons. She beat Lochte? John Leonard is right.
- an improvement of her PB of that magnitude in that timeframe is inexplicable.

Inexplicable unless you apply Occams Razor.
 
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Joely01

Bench
Messages
4,553
There is no way that kid is clean.

- China have a history, a proven history, of systemic and institutionalised doping. So yes, the fact she is from China is relevant.
- Her splits indicate that she was actually holding back in the first 2/3's of the race according to an expert.
- her final freestyle leg is simply inexplicable for a range of reasons. She beat Lochte? John Leonard is right.
- an improvement of her PB of that magnitude in that timeframe is inexplicable.

Inexplicable unless you apply Occams Razor.

X2
 
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AlwaysGreen

Post Whore
Messages
51,030
There is no way that kid is clean.

- China have a history, a proven history, of systemic and institutionalised doping. So yes, the fact she is from China is relevant.
- Her splits indicate that she was actually holding back in the first 2/3's of the race according to an expert.
- her final freestyle leg is simply inexplicable for a range of reasons. She beat Lochte? John Leonard is right.
- an improvement of her PB of that magnitude in that timeframe is inexplicable.

Inexplicable unless you apply Occams Razor.

Karl story bro. China also has a long history of extremely regimented training programs and talented spotting. They also target sports where they know they have most chance of victory, ergo weightlifting, racket sports and shooting are strong points whereas they give sports like athletics a miss.

I'm not saying that the girl is clean without a shadow of a doubt but she should be given the benefit of the doubt.
 
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Evenflow

Bench
Messages
3,139
US coach labels Ye Shiwen's feats "impossible" without drugs



A TOP US coach called China's Ye Shiwen "suspicious" and compared her to East Germany's drug-addled athletes after her super-fast times at the London Olympics.
John Leonard, executive director of the World Swimming Coaches Association, told The Guardian that the 16-year-old's lightning freestyle leg in her world-record 400m individual medley swim was simply "impossible".

The schoolgirl timed 58.68sec in the last 100 metres, a whisker off US winner Ryan Lochte's time in the men's competition. Astonishingly, her final lap was quicker than the American champion. "The one thing I will say is that history in our sport will tell you that every time we see something, and I will put quotation marks around this, 'unbelievable', history shows us that it turns out later on there was doping involved," Leonard told the British newspaper.

"That last 100m was reminiscent of some old East German swimmers, for people who have been around a while. "It was reminiscent of the 400m individual medley by a young Irish woman in Atlanta." Leonard was referring to Michelle de Bruin, who emerged as a triple gold-medallist at the 1996 Games (where she competed under maiden name Smith) but was banned for four years in 1998 for tampering with a urine sample.

"Any time someone has looked like superwoman in the history of our sport they have later been found guilty of doping," he said, adding: "I have been around swimming for four-and-a-half decades now. "If you have been around swimming you know when something has been done that just isn't right. I have heard commentators saying 'well she is 16, and at that age amazing things happen'. Well yes, but not that amazing. I am sorry."

Earlier, the swimming prodigy categorically denied doping on after British media raised suspicions. The 16-year-old Chinese swimmer, whose final 50m in the 400m medley shocked the world when she swam faster than American superstar Ryan Lochte for his final 50m on the same night in downing Michael Phelps.

With the swim, Ye took nearly seven seconds off her time at last year's world championships. She won this morning's 200m individual medley semi-final with the fastest time of the year, easily eclipsing Australians Stephanie Rice and Alicia Couts. But tongues, including Lochte's, are wagging around Ye at London's Olympic pool because of China's drug-tainted history in swimming from the 1990s.

Lochte swam his closing lap of freestyle in 29.10sec. But here's the jaw-dropper - the high school girl from China attached an outboard and blitzed the final lap in 28.93, swimming over the top of the world record line. It is the first time in Olympic swimming history that a female has swum a faster closing lap than the men's gold medallist.
Ye shattered Rice's mark in the women's 400m individual medley by more than a second.

"Insane," was Rice's comment after the race. "I mean I didn't see it, I was way over and behind, so I didn't really see her coming home, but that split coming home was out of control." But the Zhejiang youngster, who announced herself on the global stage with the 200m medley world title last year, said there was nothing untoward.

"There is no problem with doping, the Chinese team has a firm policy so there is no problem with that," she said. Ye was put on the spot after leading British media pounced on her performances, pointing to China's record of state-sponsored doping in the 1980s and 1990s. "Ye's amazing time for freestyle leg scarcely credible," read a headline in The Times, which noted that the youngster was a former team-mate of Chinese swimmer Li Zhesi, who was barred from the Olympics over blood-booster EPO.

"Chinese swimming has such a shameful history of doping that any remarkable achievement by one of its athletes is inevitably met with cynicism," remarked the Daily Telegraph. "A whiff of turtle blood in the water," added the mass-market Daily Mail, referring to the infamous supplements given to China's drug-tainted athletes in the 1990s.

Gold medal-winning icon Michael Phelps, in the same race as Lochte, had to process his own comparison. Ye swam her second last lap in 29.75, faster than the superstar American's by 0.13 seconds. Australian Olympic butterfly champion and now commentator Susie O'Neill voiced her fears about the Chinese girl."Every time we see a good Chinese swimmer we start to get a little bit nervous ... there' s just that 0.0001 per cent (of doubt) at the back of my mind'," O'Neill said.

Female medley swimmers don't normally go close to breaking the minute on the final 100m of freestyle, yet Ye blitzed it in 58.68 en route to the first world record set by a female since the end of the supersuit era at the beginning 2010. Lochte was not caught unawares when he fielded questions about a Chinese schoolgirl beating him over the last lap. "Yeah, we were talking about that at dinner. It's pretty impressive. She's fast. If she was there with me, she might have beat me," Lochte said.

US swim team men's coach Gregg (Gregg) Troy added: "Heck of a swim. You guys can do the research. I think that's probably the fastest women's split ever." The ugly background of doping in Chinese swimming in the 1990s remains a lingering stain on world sport.

Former breaststroke swimmer Yuan Yuan brought the systematic doping to the spotlight. In 1998, she was stopped with 13 vials of human growth hormone in her bag at Sydney Airport on her trip to the world championships in Perth.


http://www.news.com.au/sport/london...-faster-than-men/story-fndpu6dv-1226438946789
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,595
- an improvement of her PB of that magnitude in that timeframe is inexplicable.

This point is absolute rubbish - have you even read this thread?

She has improved 5 seconds over 4 and a half minutes in a 20 month period ... there would be many 14 year olds who have improved their times to this extent ( or more) over a similar period to 16 years old...
 
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BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,595
I'm not saying that the girl is clean without a shadow of a doubt but she should be given the benefit of the doubt.

She was drug tested after she won on Saturday, and has come back clean...

I know that drug cheats have passed tests before, but I agree that she deserves the benefit of the doubt.....
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
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153,760
This point is absolute rubbish - have you even read this thread?

She has improved 5 seconds over 4 and a half minutes in a 20 month period ... there would be many 14 year olds who have improved their times to this extent ( or more) over a similar period to 16 years old...

doesn't the fact that she can split a 100 metres in the final leg of a relay quicker than Phelps means more to me than the fact that she has improved so much

like I said previously, she may be legit but it just makes it very hard to believe

De Bruin tested clean at the games too but she got found out in the end
 

Thomas

First Grade
Messages
9,658
Of course she'd be drug free right now. I have no doubt that if she was juicing then the scientists back home would have made sure nothing would show up. The drug tests are always one step behind the dopers. I have no issue with her breaking her PB or the world record, but to swim faster than the 2 fastest Americans men? Please.

Imagine a female sprinter suddenly running a faster last lap than her male counterpart in the 3,000m or 1500m? That wouldn't happen, would it?
 

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