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The Case for Adelaide.....

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,785
What you will find is happening in Melbourne is the self proclaimed sports capital of the whole universe has finally started to mature and accept outside sports like RL. You will find most people under 25-30 have an open mind to rugby league and take an interest in the Storm, it's the older one's who grew up with a prejudice against league.
This first generation of league fans will grow and grow once they have children etc etc.

not being helped by dckhead Vlandys using nrl as his personal media vehicle for his battle with racing Victoria. His continued antagonism towards afl and afl states will turn people away from RL and stunt it’s growth potential yet again.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,785
Tv pays arlc $340mill a year (or did till Vlandys renegotiated) . ARLC currently spends around $200million of that to directly run the nrl comp. there’s plenty of money already there being paid by tv for the nrl product for a twenty team comp.
 

Bulldog2020

Juniors
Messages
82
3,500 registered players in Victoria after 22 years of the Storm belting their opponents is negligible growth. Only 3 of those 3,500 have worked their way into grade, but were cut because they weren't any good, and are regularly thumped by WA in the Affiliates Shield, or whatever it is called. Most of the people playing in Victoria weren't even born there and are from RL states/countries.

.

Apologies if I have interpreted your comments incorrectly. But I have seen others comment on this basis before and find it absolutely ridiculous that there is an assertion that Juniors in Victoria don't count if their Parents have lived elsewhere.

If anything the multicultural nature of rugby league in Victoria is fantastic and should be developed further.
 
Messages
12,659
Apologies if I have interpreted your comments incorrectly. But I have seen others comment on this basis before and find it absolutely ridiculous that there is an assertion that Juniors in Victoria don't count if their Parents have lived elsewhere.

If anything the multicultural nature of rugby league in Victoria is fantastic and should be developed further.
It would be great for the game to see the expatriates stay in Melbourne and create a large and vibrant RL community. I'm just not convinced it will ever be anything but a niche sport. Fumbleball is just too ingrained in Victorian culture for RL to ever convince the most talented kids to choose RL over fumbleball. Kids grow up wanting to emulate the most reverered sportsman and celebrities, and in Victoria the only people who have that status are fumbleballers.

Polynesians in Victoria will probably always choose their country of heritage over Victoria.

I hope the game grows down there. It woiod be great if they could grow their participation numbers to 10,000 or 15,000 within the next decade. I am just very skeptical and cautious after what happened in Adelaide and Perth.

I think it is highly improbable for a sport to be accepted in a new area that has already embraced a similar game. It might be tolerated, but rarely adopted by the majority. The only time it has happened is when there was a backlash against the established game. RL, American football and Canadian football were created due to discontentment with RU. Fumbleball took off in Perth because people were tired of RU and there were migrants from Adelaide introducing it.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,785
WA had 10,000 registered RL players in the early 90’s with a population half the current size. It’s nonsense to believe the game can’t grow anywhere except nsw and qland. It won’t grow on its own though.
 
Messages
12,659
Melbournians will watch an "event". People all over the country will. The GF and Origin are prestigious events. Only the diehards will watch week in, week out. Storm are on 9Gem in Melbourne because the audience watching them isn't big enough. More money can be made by running a 30 year old movie on the main channel.
 
Messages
12,659
WA is one place the game can grow as it has been played there at a decent level for 70 years. Pirates could work with the right funding. I don't have any faith in the 16 clubs, QRL and NSWRL agreeing to a Perth based team as it will cut into their resources. I am far from convinced they will agree to Brisbane 2. If they cannot agree to Brisbane 2 then I don't like the chances of Perth winning them over.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,762
Why do some people keep pretending RL was not played in Victoria before the Storm came around?

So the game has been played in Melbourne for at least 60 to 70 years, and despite having the most dominate RL team in recent history, they only have 3,500 players.

The Pirates don't have a sugar daddy. Their bid is headed by Peter Cumins, who was part of the Western Reds team that went bust after their first season and had to be bailed out by News Ltd. Their bid has very little substance and has little public support. When the NRL 9s were in Perth the bid team said they would go to Perth Oval to survey interest. A tiny crowd turned out over the 2 days.

Only the craziest of crazies would delude themselves into thinking Ch9 would want a team in a city that won't bother watching it. Not once have the owners of that network said they want a team in Perth or Adelaide, but they did say a 2nd Brisbane team will add money to the broadcast deal. It's just as crazy to think any other network would want a team there, especially when the highest rating network is against it.

The ARLC would need an extra $23 million a year to fund the salary cap ($10 million) and annual grant ($13 million) for a Perth team. Only the craziest of crazies could be silly enough to think the broadcasters will throw that much money at a team for Perth when it will not generate that sort of revenue for them, especially now that the networks are struggling.

If a 9th game was so important then PVL would add it. He's not because the broadcasters have said they don't want a 9th game.

Broncos missed the 8 in 2010 and 2013. The last time they won the competition was 2006.
How much can you get wrong in one post lol.

Nobody was pretending that RL didn't exist in Victoria before the Storm, that is just a flagrant strawman. It was however tiny before the Storm, I doubt their participation numbers from pre-Storm days are readily available, but I highly doubt they had over 1k participates.

The Pirates bid is not 'headed' by Peter Cumins, it's 'headed' by John Sackson and the NRL WA.
They have at least two beneficiaries that have put their hands up to help directly fund it, Cumins and Laurie Puddy, but their are probably other smaller stakeholders behind the scenes as well, on top of that they have/had multiple sponsors lined up.
To suggest that the bid has little substance and no public support just further demonstrates how pig-ignorant you are of the bid, and using the poorly organised disaster that was the 9s as an example while ignoring all the other good crowds and sell outs that Perth has got shows how disingenuous you are.

Furthermore trying to pretend that the Western Reds were a failure purely because of bad management on their part, and that there were no other major contributing factors in their failure is just bull shit on the face of it. By the way, all those criticisms you made of the Reds could also be made of the Crushers, and a lot of the time they'd probably be more fitting in the Crushers case as well...

You say that no network would want a team in Perth, however News have shown interest in a Perth team in the past, and who knows what might be more appealing to Ten or Seven. We also don't know if Nine would be open to a Perth team either, because as you say, and as far as I can remember, they've never stated they want one, but they've also never said they don'tt want one either.
But who really cares what they want specifically, because what's best for the broadcasters and what is best for the NRL are often two vastly, vastly, different things, especially in the case of Nine.

You seem to think that the ARLC covers the salary cap and gives the clubs a further $13mil grant on top, they don't, that is just f**king wrong, the cap is included in the $13mil grant. Each club gets one grant of $13mil, and there's no reason to believe that an expansion club would get anything different as they never have in the past. In other words you're completely full of shit again.

PVL isn't infallible, just because he does or says something that doesn't make it right or a good decision. He also hasn't done anything on expansion that any other ARLC chairman and/or NRL CEO hasn't done since Gallop (with the exception of Greenberg). All of them have come in and said more or less the exact same things that he has, and then done nothing. So going on prior form of the NRL, chances are he'll probably do the same.

Finally the Broncos have missed the Finals what four or five times in their history and only won their last premiership 14 years ago. . . That's not struggling. They, their fans, and speaking broadly large parts of the RL community in Brisbane, have never struggled and don't truly know the meaning of the word.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,966
It would be great for the game to see the expatriates stay in Melbourne and create a large and vibrant RL community. I'm just not convinced it will ever be anything but a niche sport. Fumbleball is just too ingrained in Victorian culture for RL to ever convince the most talented kids to choose RL over fumbleball. Kids grow up wanting to emulate the most reverered sportsman and celebrities, and in Victoria the only people who have that status are fumbleballers.

Polynesians in Victoria will probably always choose their country of heritage over Victoria.

I hope the game grows down there. It woiod be great if they could grow their participation numbers to 10,000 or 15,000 within the next decade. I am just very skeptical and cautious after what happened in Adelaide and Perth.

I think it is highly improbable for a sport to be accepted in a new area that has already embraced a similar game. It might be tolerated, but rarely adopted by the majority. The only time it has happened is when there was a backlash against the established game. RL, American football and Canadian football were created due to discontentment with RU. Fumbleball took off in Perth because people were tired of RU and there were migrants from Adelaide introducing it.

On a side note there will be a Victorian at the World Cup next year playing for Greece.

He plays for Sunbury Tigers and learnt the game at my sons school, Parade College.

So there can be success stories and not just kids from Polynesian backgrounds.

https://neoskosmos.com/en/119600/au...gby-locals-for-world-cup-qualifying-campaign/
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,966
How much can you get wrong in one post lol.

Nobody was pretending that RL didn't exist in Victoria before the Storm, that is just a flagrant strawman. It was however tiny before the Storm, I doubt their participation numbers from pre-Storm days are readily available, but I highly doubt they had over 1k participates.

The Pirates bid is not 'headed' by Peter Cumins, it's 'headed' by John Sackson and the NRL WA.
They have at least two beneficiaries that have put their hands up to help directly fund it, Cumins and Laurie Puddy, but their are probably other smaller stakeholders behind the scenes as well, on top of that they have/had multiple sponsors lined up.
To suggest that the bid has little substance and no public support just further demonstrates how pig-ignorant you are of the bid, and using the poorly organised disaster that was the 9s as an example while ignoring all the other good crowds and sell outs that Perth has got shows how disingenuous you are.

Furthermore trying to pretend that the Western Reds were a failure purely because of bad management on their part, and that there were no other major contributing factors in their failure is just bull shit on the face of it. By the way, all those criticisms you made of the Reds could also be made of the Crushers, and a lot of the time they'd probably be more fitting in the Crushers case as well...

You say that no network would want a team in Perth, however News have shown interest in a Perth team in the past, and who knows what might be more appealing to Ten or Seven. We also don't know if Nine would be open to a Perth team either, because as you say, and as far as I can remember, they've never stated they want one, but they've also never said they don'tt want one either.
But who really cares what they want specifically, because what's best for the broadcasters and what is best for the NRL are often two vastly, vastly, different things, especially in the case of Nine.

You seem to think that the ARLC covers the salary cap and gives the clubs a further $13mil grant on top, they don't, that is just f**king wrong, the cap is included in the $13mil grant. Each club gets one grant of $13mil, and there's no reason to believe that an expansion club would get anything different as they never have in the past. In other words you're completely full of shit again.

PVL isn't infallible, just because he does or says something that doesn't make it right or a good decision. He also hasn't done anything on expansion that any other ARLC chairman and/or NRL CEO hasn't done since Gallop (with the exception of Greenberg). All of them have come in and said more or less the exact same things that he has, and then done nothing. So going on prior form of the NRL, chances are he'll probably do the same.

Finally the Broncos have missed the Finals what four or five times in their history and only won their last premiership 14 years ago. . . That's not struggling. They, their fans, and speaking broadly large parts of the RL community in Brisbane, have never struggled and don't truly know the meaning of the word.

Before the Storm, RL was marginalized in Victoria (familiar story) to the point it was only ever spoken of when there was thuggery. It was only when Arko and Quayle started spreading the game in the 90's that it gained some notice.

Today if you were to go out in Melbourne I would doubt you wouldn't see some Storm merchandise on people or it spoken on the radio or TV.
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
Also re: "only 3 players"
this is a list I looked up late last year, every Victorian born or schooled or NRL Vic player to play atleast 1 game at NRL level

Born and/or Schooled but not NRL Vic Player
Peter Wallace
Jake Webster
Timana Tahu
Craig Polla-Mounter

Altona Roosters
Jeremy Smith
Gareth Widdop
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
Kurt Bernard
Ben Nakubuwai
Tony Tumusa
Jamayne Taunoa-Brown
Shae Ah-Fook
Troy Hanita-Paki

Northern Thunder
Young Tonumaipea
Richard Kennar

South East Titans
Mahe Fonua
Francis Tualau
Kelma Tuilagi

Waverley Oakleigh Panthers
Drury Low
Denny Solomona
Pride Petterson-Robati
Jarred Muller-Dobbe
Kalin Ropata
Trent Toelau

Long story short, most are "no-names", but regardless its still more than 3
 
Last edited:
Messages
12,659
Also re: "only 3 players"
this is a list I looked up late last year, every Victorian born or schooled or NRL Vic player to play atleast 1 game at NRL level

Born and/or Schooled but not NRL Vic Junior
Peter Wallace
Jake Webster
Timana Tahu
Craig Polla-Mounter

Altona Roosters
Jeremy Smith
Gareth Widdop
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
Kurt Bernard
Ben Nakubuwai
Tony Tumusa
Jamayne Taunoa-Brown
Shae Ah-Fook
Troy Hanita-Paki

Northern Thunder
Young Tonumaipea
Richard Kennar

South East Titans
Mahe Fonua
Francis Tualau
Kelma Tuilagi

Waverley Oakleigh Panthers
Drury Low
Denny Solomona
Pride Petterson-Robati
Jarred Muller-Dobbe
Kalin Ropata
Trent Toelau

Long story short, most are "no-names", but regardless its still more than 3
Only 3 have come through the system to play for the Storm. The other people on the list were either born in Victoria but moved to an RL state at a young age, or were born interstate and moved to Victoria at a late age.

You can add Craig Polla-Mounter to the list of born in Vic, raised in an RL state.
 
Messages
8,480
Before the Storm, RL was marginalized in Victoria (familiar story) to the point it was only ever spoken of when there was thuggery. It was only when Arko and Quayle started spreading the game in the 90's that it gained some notice.

Today if you were to go out in Melbourne I would doubt you wouldn't see some Storm merchandise on people or it spoken on the radio or TV.

When I worked in Melbourne over the previous 2 years, there were loads of folk getting around the streets in purple storm merch. And by that I don’t mean just on game day. I was genuinely surprised at how prevalent it is. And the most of the sports stores I saw had dedicated areas to the storm. Mind you, they didn’t have any other teams but no surprise.

Even some places in Adelaide I’ve seen have storm gear, admittedly not much and usually in the lead up to the regular roosters yearly game. Major stores in Adelaide such as Rebel and intersport all had origin gear rolling out early this year... and lots of it. Shame origin was hamstrung.
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
When I worked in Melbourne over the previous 2 years, there were loads of folk getting around the streets in purple storm merch. And by that I don’t mean just on game day. I was genuinely surprised at how prevalent it is. And the most of the sports stores I saw had dedicated areas to the storm. Mind you, they didn’t have any other teams but no surprise.

Even some places in Adelaide I’ve seen have storm gear, admittedly not much and usually in the lead up to the regular roosters yearly game. Major stores in Adelaide such as Rebel and intersport all had origin gear rolling out early this year... and lots of it. Shame origin was hamstrung.
Storm have more support than people think down here I regularly see storm merch worn out and about and will usually get a few "go storm"-s from randoms whenever Im out and about in it.

My store I work in recently did jersey day, out of the 20 that worked that day, 6 chose to wear a storm jersey, 3 wore soccer jerseys and the other various afl jerseys. This is in an inner city suburb too I might add, league would be more popular in the outer suburbs here I would say

Whats also surpising is the amount of people getting around in non-storm NRL gear, I see quite a few random souths supporters, either in merch or with a bumber sticker. Its not heaps but I would of thought it'd be closer to 0, or atleast rare to see in a city of 5 million
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
Only 3 have come through the system to play for the Storm. The other people on the list were either born in Victoria but moved to an RL state at a young age, or were born interstate and moved to Victoria at a late age.

You can add Craig Polla-Mounter to the list of born in Vic, raised in an RL state.
Many did play for the Storm's SG Ball or NYC teams before they were canned though.

edit: ive updated that list to include the age they moved to Vic (although many stats didn't exist or are based on quotes and not age)
Purple = had a Storm contract
Bold = played at NRL level for Storm

Born but not NRL Vic Player
Peter Wallace (B)
Jake Webster (B)
Timana Tahu (B)
Craig Polla-Mounter (B)

Altona Roosters
Jeremy Smith (n/a "Junior" "started his RL career")
Gareth Widdop (16)
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad (15)
Kurt Bernard (n/a - u20 or less)
Ben Nakubuwai (18)
Tony Tumusa (n/a - u20 or less)
Jamayne Taunoa-Brown (B)
Shae Ah-Fook (n/a - u20 or less)


Northern Thunder
Young Tonumaipea (n/a "at a young age")

Richard Kennar (n/a "at a young age")

South East Titans
Mahe Fonua (B)

Francis Tualau (n/a "played his junior rugby league")
Kelma Tuilagi (n/a u18 or less)


Waverley Oakleigh Panthers
Drury Low (n/a "played his junior rugby league")
Denny Solomona (n/a u18 or less)
Pride Petterson-Robati (n/a u20 or less)

I guess it depends at what age is the cut off to be considered a product of the state, it also doesnt help that there is next to zero information on any of these players until they played for a u20s team (so they might of been a lot younger playing in Vic)

It's also worth noting that most of these played their first Australian RL in Vic

theres also a lot more players from Vic floating around in the SL, or NSW or QLD cup that I didn't include, many of which have played international league
 
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Messages
8,480
Storm have more support than people think down here I regularly see storm merch worn out and about and will usually get a few "go storm"-s from randoms whenever Im out and about in it.

My store I work in recently did jersey day, out of the 20 that worked that day, 6 chose to wear a storm jersey, 3 wore soccer jerseys and the other various afl jerseys. This is in an inner city suburb too I might add, league would be more popular in the outer suburbs here I would say

Whats also surpising is the amount of people getting around in non-storm NRL gear, I see quite a few random souths supporters, either in merch or with a bumber sticker. Its not heaps but I would of thought it'd be closer to 0, or atleast rare in a city of 5 million

Yeah there’s a lot of purple getting around. I was quietly proud to be honest - that League has that much genuine interest in Melbourne. I don’t bag the storm like many others do, I think they are by far the most successful club of the modern era on a number of fronts - with fans n membership base a great example given the AFL stronghold it’s historically been.

While I mentioned it in my original posts when putting up the thread - I too see so many people wearing nrl merch in Adelaide getting around. Genuinely surprising when I came here and I too get comment if I’m in a dragons top, my Gold Coast Seagulls Jacket or Western Reds cap (love my vintage league stuff). It’s what prompted me to research more into the history of the Rams and subsequently put up the case thread. I’ve recently come back from a trip to NSW and had requests off local friends to bring them back nrl gear, I went to Peter wynns and left with a sack Santa would be happy with.

And now I live in a “pioneer state” - ie outside NSW n QLD - I understand what it’s like for true fans of the game here. Many in NSW n QLD don’t really rate holding games or having potential clubs outside the heartland states. Yet they haven’t been to these states enough (or at all) to see what the appetite is truly like...

In Victoria it’s now established with a successful club. In WA and SA, there is indeed a big appetite.
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
Yeah there’s a lot of purple getting around. I was quietly proud to be honest - that League has that much genuine interest in Melbourne. I don’t bag the storm like many others do, I think they are by far the most successful club of the modern era on a number of fronts - with fans n membership base a great example given the AFL stronghold it’s historically been.

While I mentioned it in my original posts when putting up the thread - I too see so many people wearing nrl merch in Adelaide getting around. Genuinely surprising when I came here and I too get comment if I’m in a dragons top, my Gold Coast Seagulls Jacket or Western Reds cap (love my vintage league stuff). It’s what prompted me to research more into the history of the Rams and subsequently put up the case thread. I’ve recently come back from a trip to NSW and had requests off local friends to bring them back nrl gear, I went to Peter wynns and left with a sack Santa would be happy with.

And now I live in a “pioneer state” - ie outside NSW n QLD - I understand what it’s like for true fans of the game here. Many in NSW n QLD don’t really rate holding games or having potential clubs outside the heartland states. Yet they haven’t been to these states enough (or at all) to see what the appetite is truly like...

In Victoria it’s now established with a successful club. In WA and SA, there is indeed a big appetite.
well said
 
Messages
12,659
Many did play for the Storm's SG Ball or NYC teams before they were canned though.

edit: ive updated that list to include the age they moved to Vic (although many stats didn't exist or are based on quotes and not age)
Purple = had a Storm contract
Bold = played at NRL level for Storm

Born but not NRL Vic Player
Peter Wallace (B)
Jake Webster (B)
Timana Tahu (B)
Craig Polla-Mounter (B)

Altona Roosters
Jeremy Smith (n/a "Junior" "started his RL career")
Gareth Widdop (16)
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad (15)
Kurt Bernard (n/a - u20 or less)
Ben Nakubuwai (18)
Tony Tumusa (n/a - u20 or less)
Jamayne Taunoa-Brown (B)
Shae Ah-Fook (n/a - u20 or less)


Northern Thunder
Young Tonumaipea (n/a "at a young age")

Richard Kennar (n/a "at a young age")

South East Titans
Mahe Fonua (B)

Francis Tualau (n/a "played his junior rugby league")
Kelma Tuilagi (n/a u18 or less)


Waverley Oakleigh Panthers
Drury Low (n/a "played his junior rugby league")
Denny Solomona (n/a u18 or less)
Pride Petterson-Robati (n/a u20 or less)

I guess it depends at what age is the cut off to be considered a product of the state, it also doesnt help that there is next to zero information on any of these players until they played for a u20s team (so they might of been a lot younger playing in Vic)

It's also worth noting that most of these played their first Australian RL in Vic

theres also a lot more players from Vic floating around in the SL, or NSW or QLD cup that I didn't include, many of which have played international league
Looks like the Storm are having some impact. I genuinely didn't know so many players were based in Victoria at some stage of their childhood.

I'm looking forward to the day an AwFuL player's son runs onto Melbourne Rectangular Arena in a Storm jersey. When that happens we can say RL has struck a massive PR blow to AwFuL. There was a retired Essendon player who has a son playing junior RL in Brisbane. I think the dad's name is Chey Cockatoo-Collins. Let's hope he becomes a Bronco some day. I'm pretty sure the kid took up RL after he was racially abused during a junior fumbleball game.
 

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