Latest IMG proposals for Super League

[Perth Red]

yes and no. Reality for them over there is they have a small pot of money. So if you want to add clubs you either cut the funding of the exisitng clubs, potentially making them weaker or even unviable, wait to expand until the pot grows, or bring clubs in without funding. Its far from ideal but thats their reality.

The other key issues is French clubs dont add value to the UK tv deal. It'd be like NRL asking clubs to take a cut in grants so they could bring in PNG and Fiji because it added nothing to the Australian TV value.

At least they are giving them a way of generating their own revenue from Tv in France. That could be more lucrative than the grant clubs currently get if there is interest over there in RL.

Plenty of comps round the world have other ways expansion teams have to pay. Aleague license purchases for example. Look at the issues in F1 of Andretti wanting to join but other teams saying no. In AFL the two WA teams have to pay millions a year to the WAFC to use the licenses. It's by no means unique to English RL.

 

[Wb1234]

yes and no. Reality for them over there is they have a small pot of money. So if you want to add clubs you either cut the funding of the exisitng clubs, potentially making them weaker or even unviable, wait to expand until the pot grows, or bring clubs in without funding. Its far from ideal but thats their reality.

The other key issues is French clubs dont add value to the UK tv deal. It'd be like NRL asking clubs to take a cut in grants so they could bring in PNG and Fiji because it added nothing to the Australian TV value.

At least they are giving them a way of generating their own revenue from Tv in France. That could be more lucrative than the grant clubs currently get if there is interest over there in RL.

Plenty of comps round the world have other ways expansion teams have to pay. Aleague license purchases for example. Look at the issues in F1 of Andretti wanting to join but other teams saying no. In AFL the two WA teams have to pay millions a year to the WAFC to use the licenses. It's by no means unique to English RL.

That’s a no from me

one million divided by 13 clubs is 70k pounds less per club

it’s trivial

money seems to be available to fund Bradford or London as team 13

 

[Perth Red]

That’s a no from me

one million divided by 13 clubs is 70k pounds less per club

it’s trivial

money seems to be available to fund Bradford or London as team 13

Alas as the tv deal continues to diminish over there the clubs have already lost over 500k in funding in last few years. They arent voting to lose more to bring in French clubs that add no value to the uk tv comp rights. You'd be asking clubs to give up 250k to pay for 2 French clubs. On top of the 500k already lost in last 4 years thats a big hit for many clubs.

Imagine if the NRl said to the Nrl clubs, 'we'd like to take $1mill of each of you to fund a second NZ team as they wont bring any monetary value to the comp.' what do you think the response would be?

there is no team 13 planned, where you getting that from?

 

[Wb1234]

Alas as the tv deal continues to diminish over there the clubs have already lost over 500k in funding in last few years. They arent voting to lose more to bring in French clubs that add no value to the uk tv comp rights.

Imagine if the NRl said to the Nrl clubs, 'we'd like to take $1mill of each of you to fund a second NZ team as they wont bring any monetary value to the comp.' what do you think the response would be?

there is no team 13 planned, where you getting that from?

So expansion clubs should pay the price for clubs who shouldn’t be in super league

 

[Perth Red]

So expansion clubs should pay the price for clubs who shouldn’t be in super league

The grading system will determine who should be in SL, not some fanciful notion from you.
Tenure will always win out, theres a number of clubs in NRL that you could argue would be better if replaced with expansion clubs. It is what it is. Wishful thinking wont change it.

 

[Wb1234]

The grading system will determine who should be in SL, not some fanciful notion from you.
Tenure will always win out, theres a number of clubs in NRL that you could argue would be better if replaced with expansion clubs. It is what it is. Wishful thinking wont change it.

If clubs can’t withstand a loss of 70k in central fund they shouldn’t be in super league

stop arguing the indefensible

what super league is proposing is stupid

 

[Perth Red]

If clubs can’t withstand a loss of 70k in central fund they shouldn’t be in super league

stop arguing the indefensible

what super league is proposing is stupid

Its not 70k, and its on the back of 500k already lost in last 4 years. To pay the two French clubs grants with no extra revenue coming in will cost clubs 250k each a year.

What youre proposing is stupid, bring in new clubs that dont add to the pot and make the existing ones unviable. Thats the ultimate in stupidity.

 

[Wb1234]

Its not 70k, and its on the back of 500k already lost in last 4 years. To pay the two French clubs grants with no extra revenue coming in will cost clubs 250k each a year.

What youre proposing is stupid, bring in new clubs that dont add to the pot and make the existing ones unviable. Thats the ultimate in stupidity.

70k additional

if this happened to Perth in the nrl you would be talking against it

it’s not how to do expansion.

 

[Perth Red]

70k additional

if this happened to Perth in the nrl you would be talking against it

it’s not how to do expansion.

Again you can only work with the reality you have. The game in UK doesnt have enough money to admit clubs that dont add value to the comp. It simply doesnt have that luxury. So its either pay your own way or dont join the comp. Ideally that wouldnt be the case and the RFL would have enough cash to support the game in France as well, but thats not where they are at.

Now you could argue that overall Dragons have added more to SL than some other clubs but thast not really translated to cold hard cash for the comp.

The club grant is 1.3million pounds a year. for the current 11 clubs getting the grant to give up enough to give two French clubs 2.6million pounds would mean each of them forfeiting 236k pounds each a year. After already seeing 500k each of grant cuts in last 4 years that would simply not be acceptable to them.

Ideally the French TV deal eventually will pick up the 2.6mil a year tab. In fact if French Tv values the sport there's no reason this model couldn't then see a number of French teams in SL paid for by the French tv contract in the future.

 

[Wb1234]

Again you can only work with the reality you have. The game in UK doesnt have enough money to admit clubs that dont add value to the comp. It simply doesnt have that luxury. So its either pay your own way or dont join the comp. Ideally that wouldnt be the case and the RFL would have enough cash to support the game in France as well, but thats not where they are at.

Now you could argue that overall Dragons have added more to SL than some other clubs but thast not really translated to cold hard cash for the comp.

The club grant is 1.3million pounds a year. for the current 11 clubs getting the grant to give up enough to give two French clubs 2.6million pounds would mean each of them forfeiting 236k pounds each a year. After already seeing 500k each of grant cuts in last 4 years that would simply not be acceptable to them.

Ideally the French TV deal eventually will pick up the 2.6mil a year tab. In fact if French Tv values the sport there's no reason this model couldn't then see a number of French teams in SL paid for by the French tv contract in the future.

So your arguing dragons add no value for super league

but Perth will add value to nrl by having not many extra tv viewers but the nrl should invest in them for the long term

the only reason Les Catalans survived is they werr
Given immunity from relegation by Richard Lewis or they would’ve been relegated and died off

either do expansion properly or just admit you have no interest and stick to the m62 league and die off completely

edit toulose should try and get a tv deal but storm shouldn’t be responsible for having to develop junioes in vic

 

[RedVee]

So the Super League won’t take a cut or a license fee from French (or other areas) TV deals?

 

[Perth Red]

So your arguing dragons add no value for super league

but Perth will add value to nrl by having not many extra tv viewers but the nrl should invest in them for the long term

the only reason Les Catalans survived is they werr
Given immunity from relegation by Richard Lewis or they would’ve been relegated and died off

either do expansion properly or just admit you have no interest and stick to the m62 league and die off completely

edit toulose should try and get a tv deal but storm shouldn’t be responsible for having to develop junioes in vic

Im not arguing anything, Im explaining to you their logic of the decision. In the view of SLE and the clubs, no they arent adding any intrinsic monetary value. They are not opposed to French clubs being in SL, they just dont see it adding value so therefore dont want to see money flowing to make it happen.

 

[Perth Red]

So the Super League won’t take a cut or a license fee from French (or other areas) TV deals?

correct

 

[Wb1234]

Im not arguing anything, Im explaining to you their logic of the decision. In the view of SLE and the clubs, no they arent adding any intrinsic monetary value. They are not opposed to French clubs being in SL, they just dont see it adding value so therefore dont want to see money flowing to make it happen.

And that’s why expansion never works in England

 

[Perth Red]

And that’s why expansion never works in England

It doesn't work largely because there isnt enough money in the game there to support clubs through those difficult first years. Maybe if we stick with licensing it might change that as expansion cubs can build themselves sustainably in all areas to get a better grade, not just throw a load of cash at trying to build a one season promotion winning squad. we can but hope.

Id love to see London, Wales, Toulouse and Sheffield sustainable at SL level. The frustrating reality is every club we've tried so far has failed. London (numerous times), Gateshead, Sheffield, Paris, Wales (twice), Toronto. None have been able to stay viable in SL.

 

[Wb1234]

It doesn't work largely because there isnt enough money in the game there to support clubs through those difficult first years. Maybe if we stick with licensing it might change that as expansion cubs can build themselves sustainably in all areas to get a better grade, not just throw a load of cash at trying to build a one season promotion winning squad. we can but hope.

Id love to see London, Wales, Toulouse and Sheffield sustainable at SL level. The frustrating reality is every club we've tried so far has failed. London (numerous times), Gateshead, Sheffield, Paris, Wales (twice), Toronto. None have been able to stay viable in SL.

Les Catalans because they had immunity from relegation

 

[Wb1234]

 

[Perth Red]

14 teams make sense. play everyone home and away + MW for a 28 game season.

Going on last years grading scores it would be the current 12 minus London, plus Bradford, Wakefield and Toulouse.

 

[Wb1234]

14 teams make sense. play everyone home and away + MW for a 28 game season.

Going on last years grading scores it would be the current 12 minus London, plus Bradford, Wakefield and Toulouse.

London for wakey and you’re game has a chance at something

 

[Perth Red]

London for wakey and you’re game has a chance at something

That's not how the system is going to work. If London want a SL place they have to improve the club. As it should be.