The rise and fall of Tim Sheens...

[N.C.]

Interesting times ahead?

This is the first season since we've had him that Sheens is in charge of a team that's been rated by anyone other than a Tigers fan. In the past, we've been seen as wooden spoon fodder or potential also-rans by anyone and everyone who didn't know better.

This has meant that, each year since he's been here, Sheens has 'over-achieved'. Hence, he's our SuperCoach.

But not this year. This time he's jagged us the pre-season favourites tag - not sure how since we're a prop down and we have no spine... but no matter. We went into the season with high expectations, and that means he's being watched a little more closely, and people are starting to raise their eyebrows a little... as in this article in the Tele today:

Too much flair in Marshall

• by: Paul Crawley
• From: The Daily Telegraph
• April 05, 2012 12:00AM

Flair warning: Benji Marshall of the Tigers. Picture: Gregg Porteous Source: The Daily Telegraph



Benji Marshall needs to make a decision - at what point does he pull back his own flair so the Tigers can go forward?

In Ric Charlesworth's book, The Coach, Charlesworth labels flair the F-word.
He tells a great story about the famous Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson and his flamboyant Frenchman Eric Cantona.
Now, Cantona influenced Man U's game for nearly a decade but as Sir Alex explained: "I was struck at once by his insistence on making the easy pass whenever possible, a characteristic that showed itself as a great strength of his game in his time with us.
Blog with Dog: Does Benji Marshall need rein in the Flair? Have your say from 12:30pm Thursday.

"Nobody had more imagination when it came to spotting the opportunity for an improbable or devastating pass, or more technical dexterity in threading the ball through crowding defenders.
"But, like all truly exceptional creative players, Cantona did something extravagant only when it was necessary."
Taking that advice on board, let's go back to Benji's performance last Sunday against Souths.
Playing without Robbie Farah and with rookie halfback Tom Humble riding shotgun, Benji carried the Tigers to a 16-4 lead on the back of his best game of the year.
Then, when it mattered most, he threw them off a cliff.
With seven minutes left on the clock, the Tigers got a scrum feed 10 metres out from Souths' tryline in the centre of the field.
Benji got the ball and ran crossfield until he almost hit the touchline. Then he threw a hospital pass to Beau Ryan who got bundled over the sideline. First tackle turnover.
From there, the Tigers imploded.
They gave away a fourth-tackle penalty next set - and from the next set Issac Luke ran through the laziest marker defence you'll ever see in NRL. It was the type of "soft" defence Matty Johns was talking about last week, that Robbie Farah took exception to. Seriously, Farah needs to get himself a copy of last week's last 10 minutes.
Click here to watch it.
Anyway, from the restart Lote Tuqiri gave away a penalty for a strip on Dave Taylor and next set, Taylor put through that clever grubber for Andrew Everingham to score.
Adam Reynoldson locked it up at 16-16.
Then golden point ... we all know the outcome. But getting back to Benji's hand in all this.
It's true, in a losing team he was almost man-of-the-match.
Almost. But in any team, the guy who controls completion rates is the playmaker and in 2012 the Tigers' completions just aren't giving them a fair crack at winning games.
Look at the two lists above and compare the Tigers to Melbourne, they just don't add up.
Throw in the fact the Tigers are conceding 67 per cent of their points in the second half - and an average of 24.2 points per game.
Premiership winners target the 10-14 point mark.
It all goes back to completion rates, which the playmaker controls.
So you ask again, did Benji really need to go for glory on the first tackle or should he have constructed the set like Cooper Cronk might do for Melbourne?
This is why the criticism keeps coming for one of the most brilliant attacking players our game has ever seen. Can you imagine Benji getting away with that play if Craig Bellamy was in charge?
Bellamy would be frothing at the mouth and giving him a gobful of F-words - and not the one Charlesworth was talking about.
At the Tigers, though, it seems to have become acceptable.
They say a playmaker reflects his coach. Think Cronk and Bellamy, Jamie Soward when Wayne Bennett was in charge.
The Tigers have been a bit touchy lately about some of the questions coming their way - but you are entitled to ask if anyone in Tiger Town is telling Benji the home truths?


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/too-much-flair-in-marshall/story-e6frexnr-1226319050829

 

[Tiger05]

The article doesn't say much about Sheens and truthfully I don't think it should.

Benji in my opinion should have closed that game out for us on the weekend. Yes he wasn't to blame for the loss and yes he was the player who put us up 16-4 with 10 minutes to go but at the same time he should have taken the smart simple options at certain times and we would have won the game.

 

[madunit]

While I welcome the healthy constructive criticism, I can't help but think it should be directed at Sheens, not Marshall.

Furthermore, Benji will make one of these freakish plays come off soon and this bloke will be wanking himself silly over it and the media will be calling Benji a genius and a freak all over again.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Good article. But has it really taken this long for the muppets in the media to begin questioning Super Coach?

 

[madunit]

I'm not sure they've questioned Sheens anywhere near enough in this piece.

Sheens is at fault for not having a genuine game plan, just running with Plan A of 'Robbie can figure it out' and Plan B of 'Give it to Benji'

Structure is vital to the game. We have none at all.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

I'm not sure they've questioned Sheens anywhere near enough in this piece.

Really? This part in particular reads as very clear criticism of Sheens:

So you ask again, did Benji really need to go for glory on the first tackle or should he have constructed the set like Cooper Cronk might do for Melbourne?
This is why the criticism keeps coming for one of the most brilliant attacking players our game has ever seen. Can you imagine Benji getting away with that play if Craig Bellamy was in charge?
Bellamy would be frothing at the mouth and giving him a gobful of F-words - and not the one Charlesworth was talking about.
At the Tigers, though, it seems to have become acceptable.
They say a playmaker reflects his coach. Think Cronk and Bellamy, Jamie Soward when Wayne Bennett was in charge.
The Tigers have been a bit touchy lately about some of the questions coming their way - but you are entitled to ask if anyone in Tiger Town is telling Benji the home truths?

Sheens is at fault for not having a genuine game plan, just running with Plan A of 'Robbie can figure it out' and Plan B of 'Give it to Benji'

Structure is vital to the game. We have none at all.

Completely agree.

 

[N.C.]

The criticism of Sheens is as strong as I've seen to date. There is an awful lot implied in that last paragraph.

It all goes back to completion rates, which the playmaker controls.
So you ask again, did Benji really need to go for glory on the first tackle or should he have constructed the set like Cooper Cronk might do for Melbourne?
This is why the criticism keeps coming for one of the most brilliant attacking players our game has ever seen. Can you imagine Benji getting away with that play if Craig Bellamy was in charge?
Bellamy would be frothing at the mouth and giving him a gobful of F-words - and not the one Charlesworth was talking about.
At the Tigers, though, it seems to have become acceptable.
They say a playmaker reflects his coach. Think Cronk and Bellamy, Jamie Soward when Wayne Bennett was in charge.
The Tigers have been a bit touchy lately about some of the questions coming their way - but you are entitled to ask if anyone in Tiger Town is telling Benji the home truths?

Interesting to see how far they swing back the other way if we start stringing a couple of wins together.

 

[Ron's_Mate]

The criticism of Sheens is as strong as I've seen to date. There is an awful lot implied in that last paragraph.

Interesting to see how far they swing back the other way if we start stringing a couple of wins together.

If the Tigers start playing well and winning, these grubs will claim credit for it. They will claim their criticism was the wake up call the Tigers needed.

 

[madunit]

Really? This part in particular reads as very clear criticism of Sheens:

So you ask again, did Benji really need to go for glory on the first tackle or should he have constructed the set like Cooper Cronk might do for Melbourne?
This is why the criticism keeps coming for one of the most brilliant attacking players our game has ever seen. Can you imagine Benji getting away with that play if Craig Bellamy was in charge?
Bellamy would be frothing at the mouth and giving him a gobful of F-words - and not the one Charlesworth was talking about.
At the Tigers, though, it seems to have become acceptable.
They say a playmaker reflects his coach. Think Cronk and Bellamy, Jamie Soward when Wayne Bennett was in charge.
The Tigers have been a bit touchy lately about some of the questions coming their way - but you are entitled to ask if anyone in Tiger Town is telling Benji the home truths?

I see what you're getting at and I agree, however, is Benji's style of play the biggest issue fans have with Sheens?

Thats kinda what I was getting at.

Benji's brain explosions are easier to handle when he have a strong team supporting each other, putting in and playing well.

We don't have much of that at all this your though, so his brain explosions, which we're easily ignored in the past because the rest of the team could cover for them, now stick out like dogs balls.

 

[AceAv]

I don't think Benji would "get-away" with what he did on Sunday. Easy to look at it black & white like the media has and blame Benji for the last 10 minutes because he made a shit decision in attack. Tigers should have had more points up their sleeve in that game with the opportunities wasted. And those 2 penalties that lead to Souths tries + the poor line defense all compounded to the loss.

Not any one player or coach is responsible. A team is a team, and I expect the tigers will be "going back to basics" this week.:sarcasm:

 

[Magpies Forever]

I'm glad questioning is happening and there is enough errors happening all round for players, coaching staff and management to all have questions directed their way. So far it seems the players are getting attention- eg Farah with Matthew Johns, Marhall in this instance. Sheens seems to have escaped the questions at the moment although I suspect not for much longer.

I follow my team and I respect the players but am I sick and tired of WestsTigers underperforming year in and year out, ridiculous team selections and a glaringly obvious unstructured team? Yep, I sure am.

I just hope the questions keep up. As an aside, I think last year with Folkes on the sidelines Sheens was kept in check and WT performed pretty well. This year he is gone and Sheens is unrestrained. Wouldnt be surprised to see Simmons back in the fold too. I'm so over the mastercoach. Good to see Mitch Brown say as much in that article quoted on another thread here.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Not any one player or coach is responsible. A team is a team

Somewhat true, but at the end of the day the buck stops with one man and that is the coach.

 

[37916319]

The criticism of Sheens is as strong as I've seen to date. There is an awful lot implied in that last paragraph.

Interesting to see how far they swing back the other way if we start stringing a couple of wins together.

Bit late for that. We have been in a position to make a Final and a Qualyfying final these last 2 seasons and when we needed the structure to set up for a field goal of close the game out we threw it all away.

If and only if we win a final this year would the last 2 years be forgotten otherwise its just another year down the drain and will be beyond Sheens to take us to another one IMO.

Benji and Robbie have the class and experience to know what needs to be done, why they dont do it is beyond me and why the so called super coach has yet to spank them is also beyond me.

The only benifit of the doubt i will give Robbie & Benji is that we cant play the traditional battle in the middle due to our crap roster of forwards therefore they feel the pressure more than other play makers who can await the opportunity, however Sheens is exempt from this.

Ive constantly defended the 'fluked 2005 final', hearing it made my blood boil, however im now thinking the haters may be correct. The speed and rules around the ruck suited us, we've had 6 seasons to evolve but have not.

 

[Hooch]

Does Sheens even command the respect of his players? He doesn't seem to lead them as much as play politics with them. His bum chum relationship with Benji has been about protecting his job, not getting the best out of him.

Look at what Gibbs said, when he found out in the paper he was getting offloaded, and everyone in the gym started laughing at him.

For mine that indicates your clubs culture is completely f**ked.

 

[Tiger05]

will make one of these freakish plays come off soon and this bloke will be wanking himself silly over it and the media will be calling Benji a genius and a freak all over again.

And you won't be the only one.

I do think though that Benji in that game basically showed a great footy brain and vision for 90% of the time he was there. Yes he put in some bad kicks but his reading of the play was on another level. Then he let himself down by not closing it out. I think he lost concentration or became a little too confident.

I want to see Benji become one of the greats. To do that he needs to put those games away.

 

[Tiger05]

I'd add that is was Benji's decision to run it and put Ryan in a position where he was always going into touch. I bet Sheens would have told him not to do that.

I find Sheens as frustrating at times as anyone however sometimes I think you have to look at the players.

 

[N.C.]

Read the article again, Tiger05. It says the player is a reflection of the coach. The reason why I posted it was not to have another Benji bashing thread, or another Sheens bashing thread for that matter... but because of my surprise to see old Mr Sheens getting a bit of a dressing down in public. Sure, it was pretty tame and I doubt he'll be all that troubled by it. But where will it go from here?

 

[Magpie Tragic]

Read the article again, Tiger05. It says the player is a reflection of the coach. The reason why I posted it was not to have another Benji bashing thread, or another Sheens bashing thread for that matter... but because of my surprise to see old Mr Sheens getting a bit of a dressing down in public. Sure, it was pretty tame and I doubt he'll be all that troubled by it. But where will it go from here?

Bring back the KPI's :lol:

 

[Tigers Tale]

At this point in time this is a fairly accurate article, I found myself agreeing with most of it. I also found another snippet in the Telegraph interesting and that was about Humble when he was asked about calling for the ball more (or something similar). That is our problem at the moment, we need someone with the courage to over ride Benji at times.

Benji is heart in the mouth stuff all the time, I wonder what a Cronk or similar halfback would do to this team. I just know that post Benji we will have absolutely no structure to return to, it frightens me really to think where to from here...

 

[Tiger05]

Read the article again, Tiger05. It says the player is a reflection of the coach. The reason why I posted it was not to have another Benji bashing thread, or another Sheens bashing thread for that matter... but because of my surprise to see old Mr Sheens getting a bit of a dressing down in public. Sure, it was pretty tame and I doubt he'll be all that troubled by it. But where will it go from here?

I get it but I think it is a stretch.