The rise and fall of Tim Sheens...

[Tiger05]

No better coach to manage the transition to the next generation of players. While disappointed with the results, we are likely to witness the promotion of a group of exceedingly talented footballers. Andrew Vela was already mentioned by our CEO as a possible replacement had he not been injured. Rather than take a short term view of things, look at the wider strategic picture to understand the club is in a strong position.

You only have to look at the Balmain SG Ball team to know there are very talented players coming into our ranks. The presence of Rudolph, Moses and Sironen in our club must surely bring a smile to the faces of supporters

Great and I mean that.

I still though think we should be killing it this year and we aren't. If Sheens is the problem he should f**k off.

I think we need a change and I have always been a Sheens supporter but some of the decisions and performances so far this year have been poor.

I definitely would keep him this year but he must be put under pressure - the team has to perform or he should go.

 

[BuffaloRules]

My nightmare is that he brings back Roycey and grooms him take over in 2015...

 

[hybrid_tiger]

My nightmare is that he brings back Roycey and grooms him take over in 2015...

I genuinely fear this too.

Royce will be back within weeks.

 

[leoc]

Two wins isn't much of an improvement over one win.....I know who Gould would have taken as first choice coach.....

It is when you look at the playing rosters!!
We started the year as favourites, they started as cellar dwellers.
Remember,only at the WT is mediocrity rewarded with a contract extension:crazy:

 

[leoc]

No better coach to manage the transition to the next generation of players. While disappointed with the results, we are likely to witness the promotion of a group of exceedingly talented footballers. Andrew Vela was already mentioned by our CEO as a possible replacement had he not been injured. Rather than take a short term view of things, look at the wider strategic picture to understand the club is in a strong position.

You only have to look at the Balmain SG Ball team to know there are very talented players coming into our ranks. The presence of Rudolph, Moses and Sironen in our club must surely bring a smile to the faces of supporters

R2 are you serious? This is the same guy that didn't find the need to replace an established half when Prince left back in 07, don't give me the Lui crap either cause we was never going to cut it!!
And he also didn't bother replacing our fullback when Hodgson left. Have a look at the Storm who are the bench mark, solid at positions 1, 6,7 & 9. Then to compound the issue, he lets two experinced props go at the end of 11 and expects two young kids to cover it. They'll make it eventually but season 2012 will be long forgotten before that happens! Then this time next year we'll be discussing the shortfalls in positions 1 & 7 again and by then I hope that Woods & Groat have made it!!!:roll:

 

[R2Coupe]

Maybe I've followed Balmain for too many years! Some of the times at Balmain were far worse than at WTs.

I would rather have our young forwards in the NRL now than having to wait behind Gibbs and Fifita.

Success is cyclical and the Tigers will be back.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

R2 that is all well and true, but the fact remains we were premiership favorites and are currently 1-5, and very lucky not to be 0-6.

Sheens will blame injuries and suspensions, but the buck stops with the coach.

If Sheens can't get this side into the 8 it is a colossal failure, full stop, and he has to go.

 

[madunit]

I saw a game on Fox a few weeks ago between Balmain and Souths in 1993.

Balmain were very average that year, but their pack then had more ticker and strength about it than the pack today.

1993 Pack (v Souths)
8 - Derek McVey
9 - Ben Elias
10 - Steve Edmed
11 - Martin Masella
12 - Mark Geyer
13 - Matt Munro

14 - Danny Stapleton
15 - Bernanrd Carroll
16 - Michael Brown
17 - Brian Smith

Injured - Paul Sironen

Now on paper it would be fair to say that today's pack, on paper would be miles better.

But they aren't.

That Balmain team finished with 6 wins, a draw and 15 loses, second last on the ladder.

11th in defence, 10th in attack. They had a lot of close games that they lost. They lost first 6 games before winning their 7th game.

Their points difference after 6 straight losses was -56
Their Points difference after 1 win and 6 losses was -32

Currently this mob is 1-5 with a pts difference of -46

My point is that the coach no longer is able to motivate his players. The players don't respond to him.

Alan Jones was shithouse and almost destroyed the club, but the players were passionate about the team and kept putting in despite lacking quality players across the park.

This team has stars everywhere on the field, test centre, test winger, test five-eighth, test prop, test hooker, test back rowers and test lock.

Balmain in 1993 had 1 test back and 3 test players in the forwards.

I wouldn't say the players are stale. I'd say they are comfortable. They can play like shit knowing they'll keep their spot in the team. Why try when your job isn't at risk?

The coach has created that environment.

 

[Tiger05]

Alan Jones was shithouse and almost destroyed the club, but the players were passionate about the team and kept putting in despite lacking quality players across the park.

This team has stars everywhere on the field, test centre, test winger, test five-eighth, test prop, test hooker, test back rowers and test lock.

I don't think Jones was as bad as one T Lamb. I don't think it was even close.

You do though make a good point in that the players did play with passion. They also won a few games based upon good tactical decisions by Jones. I remember one game that was won by a simple plan of Brian Smith kicking it for miles and Mick Neil chasing it. Another game that had a deep backline against Newcastle and they scored points and won the game.

Sheens has his moments tactically as well but he doesn't seem to get enough out of the players at his disposal.

 

[madunit]

Jones was an egotistical prat who thought he was a f**king genius.

All he did was turn the players against himself and the club.

Its no surprise that we got the spoon in 1994, 4 years after making the top 5. That is a massive fall from grace and it was all Jones' fault.

 

[Tiger Hawk]

I wouldn't say the players are stale. I'd say they are comfortable. They can play like shit knowing they'll keep their spot in the team. Why try when your job isn't at risk?

That's the rub isn't it - we've lost five on the bounce, lucky not to be six, and there has been only one change not forced by injury - "dropping" Ayshford to the bench. Not to reserves where he can get some hunger back, but to the bench where he still played big minutes.

 

[TrigaTheTiger]

We have to ask ourselves what Bennett or Smith would do if they took over here -

They would send the cleaners through -

You are right - they are just stake and it really looks like they dont care.

 

[Tigers Tale]

I know some people are saying Fifita's comments were just sour grapes but it is a bit like a sober mans thoughts are a drunk mans words...what is the truth? I think there maybe is some truth to it, why wouldn't there be, what other possible reason would he raise it other than to show our team is lying about this whole situation.

I can't see how there can not be conflict in this team and I think Sheens has caused this by pandering to Marshall. He has continued with Moltzen (both this year and last) when really he should be given a break to get his confidence back. Tell me what other coach wouldn't be doing this by now? Marshall is the pressure being brought to bear on Sheens.

Sheens, if we happen to turn this whole debacle around, will take a degree of credit. I think he is burnt out so far as ideas. You bring your new ideas in at the beginning of the season to try them out. If they work keep them, if they don't you get rid of them. We start like crap because he has crap ideas on game plans and player selections.

The only reason we ever do any good is we have pretty good cattle to start with and the players start to gel amongst themselves and they work out what needs to be done and then we have this long run of wins in the second half of the season, this isn't Sheens who should take the credit it is the players.

When he had very little talent at the Cowboys and the Raiders how did those teams go? If he doesn't have good players (elite) he is an ordinary coach...he can't do a Bellamy and turn nuftie players around. Melbournes forwards really are not that great on paper but paper isn't where the game is won and lost. He has every one of those forwards doing their role and doing it well, that is why he is a coach and Sheens is an imposter.

 

[benched tiger]

WT problems start at the front desk,eg. websites ,than the problems just seem to filter through every other avenue in the club like player retention,selections,coaching etc

 

[Tiger05]

I know some people are saying Fifita's comments were just sour grapes

I think Fifita was spreaking out of his arse. I heard him state the tigers have two different change rooms.

Maybe I'm not in the know like some people but I am pretty sure that when I watch them on TV they all run out from the same change room. Unless there is some hidden Harry Potter shit going on I'm going to call bullshit on this.

 

[Tigers Tale]

Fifita isn't the sharpest tool...I think he is referring to two groups, an us and them so to speak.

 

[Tiger05]

Fifita isn't the sharpest tool...I think he is referring to two groups, an us and them so to speak.

I think you are correct here but he distinctly said two dressing rooms. I mean the guy obviously isn't the sharpest tool is he. There might have been two distinct groups when he was there - him and the rest of the team.

I reckon he has a tonne of potential and could possibly be a great player. I also thought Daine Laurie could have been a great player and I reckon Moltzen also has that ability. I hope Moltzen has a bit more brains that those two.

 

[Balmain Bug]

If Wests dont win the next 3 games. Sheens must stand down and cut all ties from this ailing club.

 

[Tiger05]

If Wests dont win the next 3 games. Sheens must stand down and cut all ties from this ailing club.

Bug - its not going to happen and personally I wouldn't want it to.

If the club has a real bad season I'd like to see some changes at the end of the season but I'd like to see a coach given a go like Gentle or someone similar.

 

[R2Coupe]

R2 that is all well and true, but the fact remains we were premiership favorites and are currently 1-5, and very lucky not to be 0-6.

Sheens will blame injuries and suspensions, but the buck stops with the coach.

If Sheens can't get this side into the 8 it is a colossal failure, full stop, and he has to go.

I found it surprising we were tipped as favourites. A lot of good players left but Lui and Payten were the biggest losses. Smart footballers with the ball in hand and Payten was a great leader. Lui, for all his off field issues, was the perfect partner with Benji and has been missed.

Groat and Woods have had to adjust quickly for no other reason than the Sharks targeting our prop depth. The club made the correct decision but it takes time to get experience. If the season is so bad, the club has nothing to lose by promoting more youth and i would like to see Fotuaika in the mix. Santi to me seems to be a smart footballer with the ball in hand. A typical Dogs style attacking forward who can create opportunites.