18th club, whose next?

[Wb1234]

‘An annoying rumour’: Shock claims SA club ‘wants to be the 20th team’ in the AFL dismissed

‘An annoying rumour’: Shock claims SA club ‘wants to be the 20th team’ in the AFL dismissed

www.foxsports.com.au

Talk of a 20 team nrl has the fumblers terrified. This is a poor move on top of Tasmania

 

[The Great Dane]

‘An annoying rumour’: Shock claims SA club ‘wants to be the 20th team’ in the AFL dismissed

‘An annoying rumour’: Shock claims SA club ‘wants to be the 20th team’ in the AFL dismissed

www.foxsports.com.au

Talk of a 20 team nrl has the fumblers terrified. This is a poor move on top of Tasmania

The race for the AFL's 20th license will almost certainly end up being a race between Canberra and Perth.

Sure, something unpredictable like a multibillionaire offering to bankroll a club could happen, but realistically, if Tasmania's stadium gets funded the AFL will be deciding between the safe bet in a third Perth side, or the risker but better strategic move of trying to get a new stadium in Canberra and giving the ACT our own side.

A third Adelaide side is next to no chance.

 

[Wb1234]

The race for the AFL's 20th license will almost certainly end up being a race between Canberra and Perth.

Sure, something unpredictable like a multibillionaire offering to bankroll a club could happen, but realistically, if Tasmania's stadium gets funded the AFL will be deciding between the safe bet in a third Perth side, or the risker but better strategic move of trying to get a new stadium in Canberra and giving the ACT our own side.

A third Adelaide side is next to no chance.

They need to save Canberra for gws imo

that’s inevitable

 

[The Great Dane]

They need to save Canberra for gws imo

that’s inevitable

GWS splitting games between Homebush and Manuka is causing growing angst and resentment on both sides of the fanbase, and it's only a matter of time before the situation becomes toxic (like in Tasmania).

So it's inevitable that GWS will be forced to either stop playing games in Canberra or relocate to Canberra full time (much less likely outcome IMO), and the AFL may as well be planning now to decide what they want to do when that inevitability happens. Whether that means a Canberra based side full time, another BS FIFO situation, or they simply stop playing games in Canberra, will be up to them.

So GWS aren't the real roadblock to an AFL side in Canberra; the lack of a suitable stadium and the fact that they'd be another expensive expansion project that the AFL would have to heavily subsidise are the real roadblocks.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yep, one of wa clubs is now sending their best 3 kids to the raiders every year. PNG could do same with top 15 year olds getting scholarships with nrl clubs into their elite pathway systems. Or a new nrl club could have a proper and serious long term development pathway with pngrl. Hunters is one way but that isn’t yet really delivering many nrl players

West Australian teens chasing rugby league career will have to leave their home behind

Western Australia's young rugby league players hope the sun hasn't set on the state's prospect of joining the national competition, as the state prepares to host the sport's biggest event.

www.abc.net.au

Creating a Perth NRL team will definitely lead to more Western Australians playing in the NRL. The sooner the team is brought in the better.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

They used to be very marketable, they have lost that mystique, in contrast to Souths. But crap coaches ,neglect of the City part of St George on juniors, and internal squabbles, they can't fill Kogarah on many occasions. If you think moving Cronulla is going to enthuse Cronulla fans and their big junior league to come over to the Dragons, good luck.They can't even capture Kogarah and surrounds

St George's decline began when a second team was introduced to Southern Sydney in 1967. There's not enough people, money or support for rugby league in Southern Sydney to prop up two NRL clubs. Changing demographics in the traditional St George area hasn't helped the Dragons.

Removing one of the two teams in Southern Sydney won't lead to fans of the culled club jumping on board the one that remains, but it will lead to future generations uniting behind it.

 

[Wb1234]

GWS splitting games between Homebush and Manuka is causing growing angst and resentment on both sides of the fanbase, and it's only a matter of time before the situation becomes toxic (like in Tasmania).

So it's inevitable that GWS will be forced to either stop playing games in Canberra or relocate to Canberra full time (much less likely outcome IMO), and the AFL may as well be planning now to decide what they want to do when that inevitability happens. Whether that means a Canberra based side full time, another BS FIFO situation, or they simply stop playing games in Canberra, will be up to them.

So GWS aren't the real roadblock to an AFL side in Canberra; the lack of a suitable stadium and the fact that they'd be another expensive expansion project that the AFL would have to heavily subsidise are the real roadblocks.

More sustainable in Canberra than in homebush

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The sport's image for one.

It's pretty hypocritical, and embarrassing, for us to criticise astroturfed "rivalries" in other sports, like The Battle of the Bridge for example, then turn around and pull the same BS corporate waffle with 'The Battle of Brisbane'.

I mean tell me with a straight face that nonsense headlines like this aren't embarrassing- Why the Broncos-Dolphins rivalry has changed rugby league in Brisbane forever. There would have to have been time for an actual rivalry to develop before it could change anything FFS.

What they should have done is focus on the disparate pathways that the Broncos and Dolphins took to get to the NRL.

Rich vs poor.

Corporate-funded vs community driven.

NSWRL vs BRL.

We all know why they didn't go down this route.

Sydneysiders do not rate anything that's not from Sydney. Ergo, they didn't want anyone to know the history of Redcliffe and why the Broncos were created. The Sydney-centric NRL, Ch9 and News Ltd were never going to point out that the only reason the NRL originated from the NSWRL and is based around nine clubs from Sydney is because they had access to gaming machine revenue from the 1950s. The BRL clubs did not get their hands on this revenue stream until 1991. The fact that the NSWRL clubs have been dwarfed by the Cowboys and Broncos since gaming machines were legalised across licenced venues in Queensland ago proves there's nothing special about Sydney.

It reminds me of Vince McMahon's refusal to acknowledge WCW was a serious competitor and kicked his arse for a few years in the 1990s. Self-interest and ego got in the way.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Perth should get a new franchise, not a relocated Sydney one. They need to be given the best possible chance to flourish and not take on baggage of a struggling Sydney club.

The way the Tigers are going you have to seriously start to question their future... perhaps de-merging the Tigers and Magpies and giving the Tigers brand to Brisbane. Let them have the Balmain colours too. Wests Magpies and Balmain Tigers continue to exist in the NSW cup. Canterbury or Souths can take over the inner west and give the Roosters Campbelltown as a nursery they can develop.

You are correct.

Last year the Tigers generated just $11m from football operations. Magpies fans will never embrace the club because it's the Tigers. Balmain fans pack out tiny Leichhardt Oval, but Balmain is poor. There's no way this club can generate the revenue and culture it needs to compete with the big boys when it's at war with itself.

I'll go one step further and suggest the other merged entity is in dire straights. I cannot see the Dragons growing in St George or Wollongong under their current guise.

Dragons and Tigers are the two clubs that could fall over, with much of it being brought on by infighting.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I think it grabs good headlines the Pacifika thing but we have a very good test case to observe in Super Rugby where they just got flogged for the 5th time in front of 6 people. There's no way that hasn't been observed at NRL hq.
The government hasn't followed up with any figures for a PNG team out of Cairns , so you can assume it's the usual lip service of government and unlikely to progress beyond that.
And I would hope that the NRL have learnt their lesson about oversaturated City. QLD is perfect with 4 clubs and if they are to get another, I'd say Sunshine Coast in around 20 years time when they have a massive population currently building strong.

So you don't want Brisbane to have a third team because you're worried that it will end up a basket case like Sydney?

I remember you chucked a hissyfit about my proposal to rationalise Sydney down to six clubs.

If you're against a third Brisbane club because you're worried about oversaturation then at least have the balls to admit Sydney needs to be rationalised. The cognitive dissonance from you and a few other posters who are against Brisbane 3 but want Sydney to retain its nine clubs is why I find it hard to take NSWRL fans seriously.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Especially someone like Balmain.

They were hated by Queenslanders passionately. Elias,Roach and to a lesser extent Sironen were Public Enemy No1.

The hatred of Balmain is far more etched in recent memory, than any Brisbane Easts nostalgia.

Maybe in the late 80s and early 90s.

No one who was born in Brisbane during the mid-1980s would feel anything but apathy for Balmain. The club became a basket case in the 90s.

I was born in the mid-80s. I've watched the game for 30 years. Balmain were never anything more than a shit club from the time I started watching them until they ceased to exist in 99.

Manly were hated by RL fans in Brisbane during the 90s.

 

[MugaB]

Maybe in the late 80s and early 90s.

No one who was born in Brisbane during the mid-1980s would feel anything but apathy for Balmain. The club became a basket case in the 90s.

I was born in the mid-80s. I've watched the game for 30 years. Balmain were never anything more than a shit club from the time I started watching them until they ceased to exist in 99.

Manly were hated by RL fans in Brisbane during the 90s.

And you've been hated ever since your first post....
....And yet your still here potatoing away

 

[Pneuma]

And you've been hated ever since your first post....
....And yet your still here potatoing away

Thank goodness I have this lunatic on ignore mate. Just had a peek at the posts above. He is troppo!

 

[mongoose]

GWS splitting games between Homebush and Manuka is causing growing angst and resentment on both sides of the fanbase, and it's only a matter of time before the situation becomes toxic (like in Tasmania).

So it's inevitable that GWS will be forced to either stop playing games in Canberra or relocate to Canberra full time (much less likely outcome IMO), and the AFL may as well be planning now to decide what they want to do when that inevitability happens. Whether that means a Canberra based side full time, another BS FIFO situation, or they simply stop playing games in Canberra, will be up to them.

So GWS aren't the real roadblock to an AFL side in Canberra; the lack of a suitable stadium and the fact that they'd be another expensive expansion project that the AFL would have to heavily subsidise are the real roadblocks.

I can't see them backing out of western Sydney. The PR of "multicultural western sydney rejects AFL" would be something they wouldn't want to have, considering they see themselves as some beacon of multi-culturalism.

 

[The Great Dane]

I can't see them backing out of western Sydney. The PR of "multicultural western sydney rejects AFL" would be something they wouldn't want to have, considering they see themselves as some beacon of multi-culturalism.

I can't see it happening either.

Not unless they're forced to at least, which is highly unlikely.

 

[taipan]

St George's decline began when a second team was introduced to Southern Sydney in 1967. There's not enough people, money or support for rugby league in Southern Sydney to prop up two NRL clubs. Changing demographics in the traditional St George area hasn't helped the Dragons.

Removing one of the two teams in Southern Sydney won't lead to fans of the culled club jumping on board the one that remains, but it will lead to future generations uniting behind it.

In fact the Dragons won premierships in 1977 1979 and runners up 1971 1975 1985 1992 1993 1996.
Why do I mention this ?
Firstly despite the Sharks coming in in 1967 ,the Dragon were doing OK for quite a few years after as above.
Secondly the merge of St George with Illawarra happened in 1998 as a result of that sh*t SL war.Not the Shark's fault the merge decision.
When the merge happened some fans were and still are p*ssed off.Who knows the effect that may have had on junior growth in the St George area ,especially as you say the demographics/ethnicity has changed dramatically since.
The Dragons lost that mystique when they merged.Having said that another premiership under their belts would bring fans out of the woodwork.
Many people of Chinese descent have moved into Hurstville and surrounds and from other backgrounds, who are either less into sport or are soccer inclined as juniors.
I can assure you removing a team from Southern Sydney ie ST George Illawarra or Sharks will not create a future generation of fans in an area that has no team, where it had one before.Both Illawarra and the Shire are growth areas.
Parents who lose team to show their kids, then their kids grow up with no team .Have the Bear's fans raced over to other NRL clubs ? The Swans capitalised on SL war and culling and mergers.Why did their crowds Increase around SL especially getting in a G/F.
If there were no other winter sporting code you'd have a point.
Remember the Titans with a decent modern stadium and a competitive team struggle with crowds on the holiday strip.They need to be backed.

If we haven't learnt the sporting lessons of the past aka SL effects, we'll never learn and we'll regret it.
If you have teams and they are not financially down the gurgle, NRL needs to continue to support them.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

In fact the Dragons won premierships in 1977 1979 and runners up 1971 1975 1985 1992 1993 1996.
Why do I mention this ?
Firstly despite the Sharks coming in in 1967 ,the Dragon were doing OK for quite a few years after as above.

The game was semi-professional back then and relied on gaming machine revenue. It was possible for a club with a small fanbase to excel on the field with a Leagues Club that was packed to the rafters with pokies.

Secondly the merge of St George with Illawarra happened in 1998 as a result of that sh*t SL war.Not the Shark's fault the merge decision.
When the merge happened some fans were and still are p*ssed off.Who knows the effect that may have had on junior growth in the St George area ,especially as you say the demographics/ethnicity has changed dramatically since.
The Dragons lost that mystique when they merged.Having said that another premiership under their belts would bring fans out of the woodwork.

The chairman of the Dragons was looking at merging with the Roosters before Super League because the club was struggling to generate revenue.

St George and Illawarra merged because they didn't meet the criteria needed to gain a licence in the rationalised 14 team competiton.

Many people of Chinese descent have moved into Hurstville and surrounds and from other backgrounds, who are either less into sport or are soccer inclined as juniors.
I can assure you removing a team from Southern Sydney ie ST George Illawarra or Sharks will not create a future generation of fans in an area that has no team, where it had one before.Both Illawarra and the Shire are growth areas.
Parents who lose team to show their kids, then their kids grow up with no team .Have the Bear's fans raced over to other NRL clubs ?

@The Great Dane became a Raiders fan when the Bears were omitted.

North Sydney Bears never had a large fanbase. The problems on the North Shore stem from the Bears refusing to allow any other club to adopt the region. You cannot expect people to "move on" when the Bears are giving false hope to the few thousand people who want them to return.

The Swans capitalised on SL war and culling and mergers.Why did their crowds Increase around SL especially getting in a G/F.

Their crowds increased because the club went from being cellar dwellers to grand finalists. They experienced a similar rise in attendances during the 80s when they made the finals. It proves there was always latent support for an AwFuL club that was successful on the pitch. Immigration from Victoria also helped.

If there were no other winter sporting code you'd have a point.

Rugby league fans won't become fumbleball fans unless they already like the game.

I live less than 100m from the Lions@Springwood Social Club. I've never gone to it. There's no Queensland Cup team in Logan. It didn't stop me from going to Wynnum Manly games until my health became an issue.

Remember the Titans with a decent modern stadium and a competitive team struggle with crowds on the holiday strip.They need to be backed.

If we haven't learnt the sporting lessons of the past aka SL effects, we'll never learn and we'll regret it.
If you have teams and they are not financially down the gurgle, NRL needs to continue to support them.

Titans don't have a Leagues Club. No money from gaming means they rely on ticketing, membership, sponsorship and corporate hospitality. There are plenty of Sydney clubs who make just as little from these revenue streams. The difference is the Sydney clubs are backed by Leagues Clubs with gaming machines.

 

[RedVee_8]

The game was semi-professional back then and relied on gaming machine revenue. It was possible for a club with a small fanbase to excel on the field with a Leagues Club that was packed to the rafters with pokies.



The chairman of the Dragons was looking at merging with the Roosters before Super League because the club was struggling to generate revenue.

St George and Illawarra merged because they didn't meet the criteria needed to gain a licence in the rationalised 14 team competiton.



@The Great Dane became a Raiders fan when the Bears were omitted.

North Sydney Bears never had a large fanbase. The problems on the North Shore stem from the Bears refusing to allow any other club to adopt the region. You cannot expect people to "move on" when the Bears are giving false hope to the few thousand people who want them to return.



Their crowds increased because the club went from being cellar dwellers to grand finalists. They experienced a similar rise in attendances during the 80s when they made the finals. It proves there was always latent support for an AwFuL club that was successful on the pitch. Immigration from Victoria also helped.



Rugby league fans won't become fumbleball fans unless they already like the game.

I live less than 100m from the Lions@Springwood Social Club. I've never gone to it. There's no Queensland Cup team in Logan. It didn't stop me from going to Wynnum Manly games until my health became an issue.



Titans don't have a Leagues Club. No money from gaming means they rely on ticketing, membership, sponsorship and corporate hospitality. There are plenty of Sydney clubs who make just as little from these revenue streams. The difference is the Sydney clubs are backed by Leagues Clubs with gaming machines.

Correction. St George would have survived the criteria. They thought that the merge would guarantee their future long term though.

If you remember the times Penrith with the largest junior league in the game was due to be axed under the criteria. What a travesty that would have been.

 

[blue bags]

The only thing I can think worse than having to support a ns bears team in perth would be the sharks lol

western tigers I could do.

Yes I'm the same
But Perth Tiger's
Western suburbs Magpies stand alone club
South western Sydney
Both Clubs would thrive

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Correction. St George would have survived the criteria. They thought that the merge would guarantee their future long term though.

If you remember the times Penrith with the largest junior league in the game was due to be axed under the criteria. What a travesty that would have been.

Penrith would have been fine under the criteria as they were richer than the ARL aligned Sydney clubs.

This is what Brad Walter from NRL.COM said about it:

Admission criteria

All clubs had to meet a Basic Criteria based on playing facilities, administration, solvency and development.

To determine which teams survived, clubs were ranked for the 1995, 1996, 1998 and 1999 seasons on:

• Home crowds (1. Broncos, 2. Knights, 3. Eels);
• Away crowds (1. Broncos, 2. Eels. 3. Roosters);
• Competition points (1. Storm, 2. Broncos, 3. Bulldogs);
• Gate receipts (1. Broncos, 2. Storm, 3. Knights);
• Profitability (1. Bulldogs, 2. Panthers, 3. Sharks), and;
• Sponsorship (1. Knights, 2. Broncos, 3. Cowboys).

Clubs were also required to have a minimum revenue of $8 million per season, including gate receipts of $1.25m and net sponsorship of $2.5m.

While the three Sydney clubs who had aligned with Super League – Canterbury, Penrith and Cronulla – were considered the most profitable, every non-Sydney club produced larger gate receipts than their Sydney rivals.

The final rankings were:

1 Brisbane, 2 Newcastle, 3 Melbourne, 4 Canterbury, 5 Cronulla, 6 Sydney Roosters, 7 Parramatta, 8 North Queensland, 9 Warriors, 10 Canberra, 11 Manly, 12 Penrith, 13 Balmain, 14 North Sydney 15 Western Suburbs, 16 South Sydney.

St George Illawarra were not included as they had merged at the end of the 1998 season – meaning Norths, Wests and Souths were excluded from the 2000 premiership.

Mergers and financial incentives

With the NRL offering $8 million to encourage mergers, Balmain and Wests also formed a joint venture, as did Manly and Norths (Northern Eagles), while the Rabbitohs took legal action which led to them being restored to the competition in 2002.

However, the outcome of an appeal against Souths' win in court gives the NRL the right to exclude clubs in the future and the game may need to go through a similar process if it is decided to keep the number of teams at 16 but revamp the competition from 2023.

A determining factor could be whether the existing clubs are prepared to split the $208 million they receive in funding from the NRL between 18 teams – a reduction from $13 million each to $11.5 million each.

While there is resistance in Perth and Brisbane to a relocated team and Sydney clubs are reluctant to move, AFL figures indicate it may be more viable than starting a new team as a Tasmanian consortium was recently advised they would require an initial commitment of $40 million to be considered for entry in 2026.​

What will it take for a Sydney club to consider relocation?

If a team from England is brave enough to relocate to Canada, what will it take for a Sydney club to secure their future by moving to Brisbane or Perth?

www.nrl.com