18th club, whose next?

[MugaB]

Have you seen our taxation system?

Zero to do with NRL clubs and the comp giving concessions

 

[Perth Red]

Zero to do with NRL clubs and the comp giving concessions

Based on same philosophy, we arent all equal. Id be happy to see a range of concessions that rewarded or compensated for circumstance.
Equality not equity and all that.

 

[Perth Red]

Hypothetically you could successfully add more teams in Sydney/NSW if you went about it the right way.

The main reason that adding more teams from NSW, and Qld to a lesser extent, is a bad idea ATM is because there's finite space in the competition in it's current structure. In other words, there's only roughly 20-22 spots in the league ATM before it becomes bloated and unsustainable, and adding another NSW/Qld team means that a team from another market without representation has to miss out, and that's a compromise that the NRL can't afford to make.

However, there's no reason why you couldn't add more teams from NSW if you restructured the competition so that it could support more teams in NSW without negatively impacting the other markets, especially if you could lower the barriers of entry and change the measure of successful expansion from profitable to just sustainable without that significantly harming the broader product. In fact I'd go so far as to say that that would be the ideal outcome.

The problem is that the way that that's been achieved in most of the world is either with conferences, that won't work in the NRL because the competition is too heavily geographically weighted in favour of Sydney, or the pyramid, but the gap between the professional and amateur level is way too wide for that to be sustainable in Australia.

The only way I think you could achieve it would be with a modified version of the top down licensed P&R system like in Japanese soccer, but that would require an unprecedented level of cooperation from every level of the sport. Everybody from ARLC down would have to be supportive, and I just can't see that happening in Australian RL.

The ARLC is too compromised and set in their ways to even consider such a radical (by Australian standards) idea, the clubs would start SL 2.0 rather than risk dropping out of the top tier, and the broadcasters are too myopic and risk averse to even truly understand what the ARLC would be trying to achieve, let alone support it.

TL;DR: hypothetically it could be done, that might even be the ideal outcome, but it'll never happen.

We can see from what a number of teams are able to bring in in revenue in NSW that its oversaturated already from a business franchise sense. Adding more mouths to the bowl is folly at best, irresponsible at worse.

NRL has had to slash funding from grassroots and other areas of the games development in order to give clubs enough money to be sustainable because they arent earning enough in their own right. Thats not a good thing

 

[Bukowski]

Its interesting that the NRL are advertising finals games and the Vegas double header on perth radio this week.

 

[Pneuma]

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

You're proposing a 24-team competition, but 13 teams are within a 120-km radius of Sydney. Where less than a quarter of the Australian/NZ population live.

Expansion is a chance to dilute the Sydney teams, to turn it into a a real national/regional competition. Your plan dooms it to NSWRL-lite.

You don't have to expand for expansion's sake. If there are no more options outside of NSW, then it's a good stopping point. There's a diminishing return on TV rights as more games mean more overlapping timeslots and smaller audiences per game.

I think he is very funny. But that’s about all

 

[The Penguin #6.]

Its interesting that the NRL are advertising finals games and the Vegas double header on perth radio this week.

Really are laying the groundwork aren`t they. Despite whether you like it or not the Vegas venture does add an element of intrigue and glamour to the NRL. Also, all those high paid FIFO`s might splash out on a week in Vegas as well.

 

[MugaB]

Based on same philosophy, we arent all equal. Id be happy to see a range of concessions that rewarded or compensated for circumstance.
Equality not equity and all that.

I wouldn't, why should such and such get a concession, just coz they are poorly run or new to the comp or in an area that doesn't support RL as the no.1 code, when I've been around since 1967, done the hard work, have the junior programs in place, and make a good fist of it without concessions, but yeah give canberra or Melbourne a hand out coz they aren't as flashy as a Bondi or Brisbane based club, for marquee players to attract..
Thats an example and the reason they wont accept concessions, its a tough titties rule, make do as all others have, what you are talking about is gifting a new franchise a fake success to build off of, but it doesn't last and skews the competition to their favour, for what? The other now 17 clubs had to scratch and claw their way to support they have. Again can't give peter something and not paul, all you see is dollar signs not the sport being tipped towards one direction in an unfair direction.
Its just the whole concept of the conferences, and how most feel that a Sydney based vs rest is ok, but in reality its not, and would severely damage expansion clubs

 

[Perth Red]

I wouldn't, why should such and such get a concession, just coz they are poorly run or new to the comp or in an area that doesn't support RL as the no.1 code, when I've been around since 1967, done the hard work, have the junior programs in place, and make a good fist of it without concessions, but yeah give canberra or Melbourne a hand out coz they aren't as flashy as a Bondi or Brisbane based club, for marquee players to attract..
Thats an example and the reason they wont accept concessions, its a tough titties rule, make do as all others have, what you are talking about is gifting a new franchise a fake success to build off of, but it doesn't last and skews the competition to their favour, for what? The other now 17 clubs had to scratch and claw their way to support they have. Again can't give peter something and not paul, all you see is dollar signs not the sport being tipped towards one direction in an unfair direction.
Its just the whole concept of the conferences, and how most feel that a Sydney based vs rest is ok, but in reality its not, and would severely damage expansion clubs

Short memory? It was only a few years ago Panthers were broke and at bottom of table. Geeting some millionaire mates of Gould to invest pulled them out of the fire. A fire they should never have been allowed to get in.

Reality is not all club catchments are same for jnrs or for corporates, not all clubs stadiums can deliver same returns, not all clubs have the same attractiveness for players to move to and so it goes on. Its delusional to say the NRl is an equal comp when in reality there is nothing equal about it from the clubs circumstances.

In terms of new clubs coming in, extra cap to sign players from outside NRl benefits everyone. Dolphins have stripped 30 plus first team players away from other clubs this year and are busy signing more from other teams for next year.

 

[MugaB]

Short memory? It was only a few years ago Panthers were broke and at bottom of table. Geeting some millionaire mates of Gould to invest pulled them out of the fire. A fire they should never have been allowed to get in.

Reality is not all club catchments are same for jnrs or for corporates, not all clubs stadiums can deliver same returns, not all clubs have the same attractiveness for players to move to and so it goes on. Its delusional to say the NRl is an equal comp when in reality there is nothing equal about it from the clubs circumstances.

In terms of new clubs coming in, extra cap to sign players from outside NRl benefits everyone. Dolphins have stripped 30 plus first team players away from other clubs this year and are busy signing more from other teams for next year.

Read the fine print, and it was over a decade ago...
And any team was going to do lessen the player pool regardless its adding an extra 30 players income to the game that need to be filled, why would you think the dolphins wouldn't go after anything that wasn't locked up already..

 

[Perth Red]

Read the fine print, and it was over a decade ago...
And any team was going to do lessen the player pool regardless its adding an extra 30 players income to the game that need to be filled, why would you think the dolphins wouldn't go after anything that wasn't locked up already..

But if they had cap concessions to sign outside NRL first teamers would they have needed to raid other clubs for 30 plus players?

My mistake, 12 years ago they were on the verge of going under!

 

[MugaB]

But if they had cap concessions to sign outside NRL first teamers would they have needed to raid other clubs for 30 plus players?

My mistake, 12 years ago they were on the verge of going under!

They were late on some loan to got pulled up on, gus sorted it out with his mate james packer, the loan was paid in full several weeks/months later... nice story but a nothing one really

‘We’ll give you the $10m, that’s no problem’: The lunch where Packer saved Panthers

Long-time Penrith league official Don Feltis had never met James Packer before he sat down at a Sydney restaurant with the billionaire eight years ago.

www.google.com

 

[Perth Red]

They were late on some loan to got pulled up on, gus sorted it out with his mate james packer, the loan was paid in full several weeks/months later... nice story but a nothing one really

Sure sounds like just a late payment lol.

To understand just how close the Panthers came to crumbling to the ground, you really can't go past Phil Gould's first meeting to persuade Ivan Cleary to coach the Penrith side.
Instead of the big sell he withdrew the offer before he had even made the offer.

"I can't do it," Gould told him. "I'm sorry, but I can't offer you the job because I don't know if we're going to exist."

CEO: "We were days away from liquidation," he says, ominously.

Buckling and twisting beneath an unfathomable debt of $90 million, the Panthers' fate could not have been any clearer.

"We were gone," says Gould.

Phil Gould reveals how his great mate James Packer helped save the Penrith Panthers from extiction

How Packer saved the Panthers

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[MugaB]

Sure sounds like just a late payment lol.

To understand just how close the Panthers came to crumbling to the ground, you really can't go past Phil Gould's first meeting to persuade Ivan Cleary to coach the Penrith side.
Instead of the big sell he withdrew the offer before he had even made the offer.

"I can't do it," Gould told him. "I'm sorry, but I can't offer you the job because I don't know if we're going to exist."

CEO: "We were days away from liquidation," he says, ominously.

Buckling and twisting beneath an unfathomable debt of $90 million, the Panthers' fate could not have been any clearer.

"We were gone," says Gould.

Phil Gould reveals how his great mate James Packer helped save the Penrith Panthers from extiction

How Packer saved the Panthers

www.foxsports.com.au

Haha i just posted the Sydney morning herald version, it has less drama in it, regardless it happened over 12 years ago.. not an issue in todays world... nz investors calling for an overnight debt they just bought from ING doesn't just happen to every club..

 

[Perth Red]

Haha i just posted the Sydney morning herald version, it has less drama in it, regardless it happened over 12 years ago.. not an issue in todays world... nz investors calling for an overnight debt they just bought from ING doesn't just happen to every club..

That was Gould and the Panthers CEO making those comments, not a journo.

Its part of the bigger picture that not all clubs are equal and some clubs need support more than others. 2018 Panthers were still losing millions a year, a winning team couldn't have come at a better time for them! But their important future shouldnt rest on being bailed out or getting lucky with a winning side.

NRL has had to slash grassroots funding to up payments to clubs to make them all sustainable, even though some of them didn't actually need the extra grant to do that. So the game suffers because we treat everyone the same.

 

[MugaB]

That was Gould and the Panthers CEO making those comments, not a journo.

Its part of the bigger picture that not all clubs are equal and some clubs need support more than others. 2018 Panthers were still losing millions a year, a winning team couldn't have come at a better time for them! But their important future shouldnt rest on being bailed out or getting lucky with a winning side.

NRL has had to slash grassroots funding to up payments to clubs to make them all sustainable, even though some of them didn't actually need the extra grant to do that. So the game suffers because we treat everyone the same.

Nearly every club losses millions a year, or run even.. except for the broncos, who run last and yet still manage a substantial profit.. since the salary cap raised and certain restrictions were placed on clubs for expenditure, the coach staff caps, etc, every club should be ahead nowadays, its not 5 years anymore, V'landys cleaned up that shit show you've been harping on about

 

[Perth Red]

Nearly every club losses millions a year, or run even.. except for the broncos, who run last and yet still manage a substantial profit.. since the salary cap raised and certain restrictions were placed on clubs for expenditure, the coach staff caps, etc, every club should be ahead nowadays, its not 5 years anymore, V'landys cleaned up that shit show you've been harping on about

Yes by raiding the grassroots funding, great outcome!

 

[MugaB]

Yes by raiding the grassroots funding, great outcome!

For who? Clubs run the nrl programs, your mob wont let the pokies in, that not the NRLs focus to prop your comp up, when again looking for hand outs

 

[Perth Red]

For who? Clubs run the nrl programs, your mob wont let the pokies in, that not the NRLs focus to prop your comp up, when again looking for hand outs

Certainly not for jnrs and grassroots clubs!
Its the ARLCs mandate to grow and fund grassroots. Of which 97% goes to the two states with pokies I might add.

 

[blue bags]

I always if Rugby Union died off a bit in New Zealand or a coming together of codes then a Trans Tasman NRL with the Super Rugby sides in and 24-26 teams but it's just my Pie in the Sky.

Yes 24 team's
Then 2nd NZ team= 25th
Then the holy grail
26th team Darwin Dingoes

 

[Bukowski]

Really are laying the groundwork aren`t they. Despite whether you like it or not the Vegas venture does add an element of intrigue and glamour to the NRL. Also, all those high paid FIFO`s might splash out on a week in Vegas as well.

Absolutely, the packages look pretty reasonable