18th club, whose next?

[gallagher]

No ones arguing against having team in perth, or them being next cab off the rank, i just see them turning into a titans-esk expansion that only competes thru the skin off there teeth, and wont keep the crowds due to being bashed every week by 50... whats the point, when theres genuine clubs or areas that have an already competitive junior or reserve grade comps that can mix it with the mediocre NRL clubs, i cant say NZ2 will be any different, but they have athletes in league and union that can be drafted from NZ, and the country can easily support 2 clubs, PNG/Cairns i have no doubt would be competitive, everyone worrys about the funding, but thats not the issue, when you have grants covering your salary cap, and if the QRL can do it with the Hunters and Pride, the NRL can do it with one team... Perth or WA needs to show the league that they can genetate 1st grade talent, just like the bulk of the NRL, yes they ain't got the funding from the NRL, but PR says perth have very rich backers, well theyll have to prove it, build a perth club enter them into reserve grade in either QRL or NSWRL and do what the hunters did in 2017 and win or get close at least... then youll get taken seriously, otherwise perth is just a very faraway dot on a map, that they ain't going to bother with

Why would you compare Perth to the Titans? Your argument is you need a team from a RL stronghold, so wouldn't Perth be comparable to Storm?

 

[MugaB]

Why would you compare Perth to the Titans? Your argument is you need a team from a RL stronghold, so wouldn't Perth be comparable to Storm?

I said I'd be worried that they'd turn out like the titans, they could very well turn out to be a "storm" but I dare say the ARLC wont fold 3 clubs into a Perth franchise, and the spend the next 15 years proping them up, it wasn't till recently that the titans started to tap into their surrounding area, as they were heavily reliant on buying NRL players from elsewhere... nowadays everyone does a bit of both, some clubs do it moreso, others promote from within, i can see redcliffe, doing half/half, but Perth will need 30 players straight up minimum, theyll be no players in the state who will be upto reserve grade standard, atleast the dolphins already have their QRL team to tap from... build a club first then see if you can mix it with reserve graders, this whole we need perth coz "timeslot", "national footprint" "new market" is all garbage without a competitive team already in place... just another dot on a map, better off giving the 18th licence to Catalans Dragons or Toronto Wolfpack if you want more dots

 

[Perth Red]

All Blacks are in trouble as European clubs continue to plunder NZRU's best players. NRL can compete with European onionball clubs in the player market for NZ talent as we have the money. NZ 2 is a huge threat to NZRU and just as dangerous to them as they are to NZ 2.

Must be why so many all blacks are signing for the Warriors. Oh hang on....

 

[Perth Red]

I said I'd be worried that they'd turn out like the titans, they could very well turn out to be a "storm" but I dare say the ARLC wont fold 3 clubs into a Perth franchise, and the spend the next 15 years proping them up, it wasn't till recently that the titans started to tap into their surrounding area, as they were heavily reliant on buying NRL players from elsewhere... nowadays everyone does a bit of both, some clubs do it moreso, others promote from within, i can see redcliffe, doing half/half, but Perth will need 30 players straight up minimum, theyll be no players in the state who will be upto reserve grade standard, atleast the dolphins already have their QRL team to tap from... build a club first then see if you can mix it with reserve graders, this whole we need perth coz "timeslot", "national footprint" "new market" is all garbage without a competitive team already in place... just another dot on a map, better off giving the 18th licence to Catalans Dragons or Toronto Wolfpack if you want dots

well of the two last expansion clubs to enter the NRL which has been the most successful for the game, the heartland club or the dot on the map?

I dont think anyone is under any illusion that it will be hard work for a Perth club but I think you both underestimate the opportunity to turn our reasonable jnrs into excellent jnrs with better systems and funding. That's why I'd bring in a three year funded plan before they enter NRL. There is a lot the NRL could do differently to give Perth a fighting chance from day 1 but would need a change in thinking on their part. We've seen with Dolphins the reality is any new club, be heartland or expansion, is going to go out and sign its starting 25 players from current NRL systems. That's a reality.

 

[MugaB]

well of the two last expansion clubs to enter the NRL which has been the most successful for the game, the heartland club or the dot on the map?

I dont think anyone is under any illusion that it will be hard work for a Perth club but I think you both underestimate the opportunity to turn our reasonable jnrs into excellent jnrs with better systems and funding. That's why I'd bring in a three year funded plan before they enter NRL. There is a lot the NRL could do differently to give Perth a fighting chance from day 1 but would need a change in thinking on their part. We've seen with Dolphins the reality is any new club, be heartland or expansion, is going to go out and sign its starting 25 players from current NRL systems. That's a reality.

Heartland aside, titans went full market..
Which is what you all expect the dolphins to do 1st year.... storm had 3 clubs fold into them and also picked up 6 players from the market.... not sure youre comparisons to whatever you think heartland or otherwise would be...
And can't really use the dolphins, they haven't kicked off yet, but i get what you mean, im sure they assured the ARLC that theyd have a squad ready in the timeframe given, the media are the ones pushing the marquee signing... don't really need one, if you are a development club, as you can promote a junior to become one... im sure bennett will get the dolphins beating most of the mediocre sides come next year

 

[Perth Red]

Whatever new team comes in, be it Perth, NZ2 or Bris3 will sign all of their first team from the existing pool. That's the current reality.
NRL can influence this if it chooses to by getting creative with the salary cap allowances for a new club but it has shown no willingness to do so in its pursuit of all things being equal (lol)

 

[Wb1234]

well of the two last expansion clubs to enter the NRL which has been the most successful for the game, the heartland club or the dot on the map?

I dont think anyone is under any illusion that it will be hard work for a Perth club but I think you both underestimate the opportunity to turn our reasonable jnrs into excellent jnrs with better systems and funding. That's why I'd bring in a three year funded plan before they enter NRL. There is a lot the NRL could do differently to give Perth a fighting chance from day 1 but would need a change in thinking on their part. We've seen with Dolphins the reality is any new club, be heartland or expansion, is going to go out and sign its starting 25 players from current NRL systems. That's a reality.

Last two clubs to enter the nrl were titans and south’s

they both are heartland clubs but south’s are obviously the stronger heartland club

 

[Wb1234]

Whatever new team comes in, be it Perth, NZ2 or Bris3 will sign all of their first team from the existing pool. That's the current reality.
NRL can influence this if it chooses to by getting creative with the salary cap allowances for a new club but it has shown no willingness to do so in its pursuit of all things being equal (lol)

There’s enough players. The dolphins will have a great side after year three

when bennett started the broncos he had a squad full of origin players they didn’t even make the finals in their first year

he won his first comp after axing Queensland’s best player in Lewis and relying upon juniors

Exocet the same at the dolphins it will be when the good kids are coming through they are strong

 

[Colk]

There’s enough players. The dolphins will have a great side after year three

when bennett started the broncos he had a squad full of origin players they didn’t even make the finals in their first year

he won his first comp after axing Queensland’s best player in Lewis and relying upon juniors

Exocet the same at the dolphins it will be when the good kids are coming through they are strong

I agree there are enough players, or that there will be when we go through the expansion process. The same debate goes on whenever the topic of expansion is brought up.

The NRL just need to plan this well as well as improve some links to existing areas, as well as look to new areas to foster the additional talent necessary. For example, target union, link better with the Pacific, talent share with ESL, look at untapped regions like the US (especially) and even Africa and Europe where there are plenty of great athletes without an opportunity

 

[Menaiduck]

‘We can’t wait longer’: PNG ‘ready’ for NRL as it launches bold bid to become 18th team

‘We can’t wait longer’: PNG ‘ready’ for NRL as it launches bold bid to become 18th team

www.google.com

 

[Wb1234]

I agree there are enough players, or that there will be when we go through the expansion process. The same debate goes on whenever the topic of expansion is brought up.

The NRL just need to plan this well as well as improve some links to existing areas, as well as look to new areas to foster the additional talent necessary. For example, target union, link better with the Pacific, talent share with ESL, look at untapped regions like the US (especially) and even Africa and Europe where there are plenty of great athletes without an opportunity

Each team should be spaced 3 to 5 years apart

the last thing we want is we expand too fast then the storm can’t sign any good juniors and they go backwards

 

[Perth Red]

T

‘We can’t wait longer’: PNG ‘ready’ for NRL as it launches bold bid to become 18th team

‘We can’t wait longer’: PNG ‘ready’ for NRL as it launches bold bid to become 18th team

www.google.com

They mention the Hunters but fail to mention they only exist as the Australian govt is funding it. No one is any doubt that the fanbase and player development opportunity is huge for PNG, but they need to address the real elephant in the room which is financial sustainability. If they want to convince a super conservative ARLC then they will need to show them where the $15mill's a year plus are coming from

 

[Colk]

Each team should be spaced 3 to 5 years apart

the last thing we want is we expand too fast then the storm can’t sign any good juniors and they go backwards

Exactly. Hopefully they have learned the lesson from the Dolphins (although as you said I think they will eventually be fine). If you space it out properly, you give the new licence time to hunt for good juniors and build up their nursery as well as avoiding the current circus going on with the Dolphins atm (for example if they were due to enter in say 2024 there wouldn’t be this constant media narrative about how they aren’t getting anybody or that they won’t be able to fill their roster)

 

[Wb1234]

Exactly. Hopefully they have learned the lesson from the Dolphins (although as you said I think they will eventually be fine). If you space it out properly, you give the new licence time to hunt for good juniors and build up their nursery as well as avoiding the current circus going on with the Dolphins atm (for example if they were due to enter in say 2024 there wouldn’t be this constant media narrative about how they aren’t getting anybody or that they won’t be able to fill their roster)

If it wasn’t for covid they would’ve announced it sooner

tbh vlandys had guts still expanding when he did after the clubs told him it was too soon and the game hasn’t fully recovered financially from covid

 

[The Penguin #6.]

I saw it mentioned in the paper once a couple of weeks ago that the ARLC`s dispute with the NSWRL was about their desire (the ARLC`s) to set up a national reserve grade competition. The dispute was about the loss of funding to the states if this went ahead. More players anyone. What I don`t get how would this differ from the NSW and DLD competitions, anyone know anything ?

 

[Perth Red]

I saw it mentioned in the paper once a couple of weeks ago that the ARLC`s dispute with the NSWRL was about their desire (the ARLC`s) to set up a national reserve grade competition. The dispute was about the loss of funding to the states if this went ahead. More players anyone. What I don`t get how would this differ from the NSW and DLD competitions, anyone know anything ?

The court case is re voting for the NSWRL board and ineligibility of the Sharks guy, or at least that is what they want us to believe. Maybe ARLC was trying to stack NSWRL who knows? I doubt QRL would agree either tbf.

at the moment the NRL pays the clubs $500k ish for running a reserve grade side in NSW cup or Qlnd cup and also pays the NSWRL $20mill a year and QRL a decent amount as well to run those comps (and others). If they set up a genuine reserve grade for the 16 NRL clubs they would no doubt reduce that state funding and give it directly to clubs. Not only that but those state bodies premier competitions will be relegated in effect to a third grade status impacting revenue and other things like sponsorship and tv coverage. Hard to see them accepting it.

 

[The Penguin #6.]

The court case is re voting for the NSWRL board and ineligibility of the Sharks guy, or at least that is what they want us to believe. Maybe ARLC was trying to stack NSWRL who knows? I doubt QRL would agree either tbf.

at the moment the NRL pays the clubs $500k ish for running a reserve grade side in NSW cup or Qlnd cup and also pays the NSWRL $20mill a year and QRL a decent amount as well to run those comps (and others). If they set up a genuine reserve grade for the 16 NRL clubs they would no doubt reduce that state funding and give it directly to clubs. Not only that but those state bodies premier competitions will be relegated in effect to a third grade status impacting revenue and other things like sponsorship and tv coverage. Hard to see them accepting it.

Shame I liked the sound of the ` national ` side to it, was hoping it might mean a team out of your part of the world, Vic and N.T, as well. But if it did become that second tier, I suppose it`s pretty obvious as an attempt to expand player pool.
Some of the Pommies on their forum made a list of known first-graders playing NSW or QLD Cup on one particular weekend recently, I was surprised at the lack of recognisable first graders, they must drop off the map.
I suppose like the old days with reserve grade the aim of this new comp would be to keep some of these blokes in the game as well as the up and comers who at the moment appear to be filling these state competitions.

 

[Perth Red]

Shame I liked the sound of the ` national ` side to it, was hoping it might mean a team out of your part of the world, Vic and N.T, as well. But if it did become that second tier, I suppose it`s pretty obvious as an attempt to expand player pool.
Some of the Pommies on their forum made a list of known first-graders playing NSW or QLD Cup on one particular weekend recently, I was surprised at the lack of recognisable first graders, they must drop off the map.
I suppose like the old days with reserve grade the aim of this new comp would be to keep some of these blokes in the game as well as the up and comers who at the moment appear to be filling these state competitions.

Its a hotch potch for sure but too much self interest to change it. Even some of the clubs would be opposed as at the moment they have feeder clubs that cost them nothing.

 

[Colk]

Shame I liked the sound of the ` national ` side to it, was hoping it might mean a team out of your part of the world, Vic and N.T, as well. But if it did become that second tier, I suppose it`s pretty obvious as an attempt to expand player pool.
Some of the Pommies on their forum made a list of known first-graders playing NSW or QLD Cup on one particular weekend recently, I was surprised at the lack of recognisable first graders, they must drop off the map.
I suppose like the old days with reserve grade the aim of this new comp would be to keep some of these blokes in the game as well as the up and comers who at the moment appear to be filling these state competitions.

Why couldn’t they just use some of the existing NSW Cup clubs and QLD Cup clubs to form a national second tier competition?

Scrap the teams with a first grade side so;

Conference 1
NSW Cup
Newtown
North Sydney
Western Suburbs Magpies
Illawarra Steelers
Plus a few NSW country sides (Northern NSW, western NSW etc)

teams from WA, SA, VIC

1 or 2 teams from New Zealand
Fiji

Conference 2
QLD Cup
Take out Dolphins and Tweed Heads

You would have roughly two conferences of 10-12 sides each

 

[Perth Red]

Why couldn’t they just use some of the existing NSW Cup clubs and QLD Cup clubs to form a national second tier competition?

Scrap the teams with a first grade side so;

Conference 1
NSW Cup
Newtown
North Sydney
Western Suburbs Magpies
Illawarra Steelers
Plus a few NSW country sides (Northern NSW, western NSW etc)

teams from WA, SA, VIC

1 or 2 teams from New Zealand
Fiji

Conference 2
QLD Cup
Take out Dolphins and Tweed Heads

You would have roughly two conferences of 10-12 sides each

again NSWRL and QRL would lose all their status and power in that scenario, so never would agree to it.
It would also cost the NRL a fair whack of money. Its not cheap to run an international competition and without every club having a pokie den to pay for it the NRl would have to cover most of costs.