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18th club, whose next?

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,888
You're not a born and bred Western Australian. You're a soapdodger from Hull who emigrated to Perth. If you were born in Kent then you wouldn't be a rugby league fan.

The facts don't back up your claims. Despite all of your chest pumping about RL in Perth, there's only 4,100 registered players, 5k PTV viewers and 8k FTA viewers.


See my point about the salary cap on football department expenditure. Storm didn't have to abide by one between 1998 and 2017.
Haha, yeh being here 25 years in no way makes me more aware of the RL situation here than someone in bogan outer Brisbane whose never even ventured West before. WHat a stupid thing to say. If you were born in Melbourne youd be an AFL fan. See how it works?

Again thats what happens if you dont try and sell a product to someone, you end up with no customers. Doh.
4,100 players is on par with some current NRL club regions.

For starters the FC cap is very loose and I doubt even gets audited. No ones mentioned it for years and if it still exists its not a max amount, you can still spend what you want.
 
Messages
14,822
Haha, yeh being here 25 years in no way makes me more aware of the RL situation here than someone in bogan outer Brisbane whose never even ventured West before. WHat a stupid thing to say. If you were born in Melbourne youd be an AFL fan. See how it works?

Again thats what happens if you dont try and sell a product to someone, you end up with no customers. Doh.
4,100 players is on par with some current NRL club regions.

For starters the FC cap is very loose and I doubt even gets audited. No ones mentioned it for years and if it still exists its not a max amount, you can still spend what you want.
Living in Perth for 25 years doesn't negate the fact RL in Perth only has 5k PTV viewers, 8k FTA viewers and 4,100 players.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,888
Living in Perth for 25 years doesn't negate the fact RL in Perth only has 5k PTV viewers, 8k FTA viewers and 4,100 players.
do you understand the concept of building a customer base? If youre not selling your product in an area you cant expect their to be customers falling over themselves there. Build it and they will come.
and 4,100 reg players is not a poor number. Its close to on par with many NRl clubs regions in heartland RL areas.
 
Messages
14,822
do you understand the concept of building a customer base? If youre not selling your product in an area you cant expect their to be customers falling over themselves there. Build it and they will come.
and 4,100 reg players is not a poor number. Its close to on par with many NRl clubs regions in heartland RL areas.
Do you believe the shit you write?

What you're proposing is no different to GC Suns/GWS Giants.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
Do you believe the shit you write?

What you're proposing is no different to GC Suns/GWS Giants.
Or the Swans, Storm, Warriors, WC Eagles, Crows, Dockers, etc, [insert every example of NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS, etc, expansion teams and relocations from the last 50ish years here].

Top down investment is the only viable method for expansion and market growth in a franchise system in the modern world of instant gratification and extreme competition in the entertainment sector. You may not like it, but it's how the industry works.

Placing more and more teams in the same markets will just split those pies into smaller and smaller pieces, so the only way to genuinely expand the customer base is to enter new markets, and that can be costly and is often time consuming.
 
Last edited:
Messages
14,822
Or the Swans, Storm, Warriors, WC Eagles, Crows, Dockers, etc, [insert every example of NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS, etc, expansion teams and relocations from the last 50ish years here].

Top down investment is the only viable method for expansion and market growth in a franchise system in the modern world of instant gratification and extreme competition in the entertainment sector. You may not like it, but it's how the industry works.

Placing more and more teams in the same markets will just split those pies into smaller and smaller pieces, so the only way to genuinely expand the customer base is to enter new markets, and that can aabe costly and is often time consuming.
The ARLC is unwilling to fund top down investment in non-RL markets. It cost News Ltd/ARLC $100m over two decades -- during a period when News Ltd held a 50% stake in the NRL -- to make the Storm mildly successful off the field. The Storm average 16k at MRS with a team that's been camped inside the top four of the premiership ladder for the bulk of their existence. That's terrible for a city of Melbourne size. There's only 5k players in the state.

Would the Storm have enjoyed so much success without the axing of the Reds, Mariners, Crushers, Chargers and Rams?

Plenty of their players came from the Mariners and Reds. Marcus Bai was poached from the Chargers. Quality juniors from Queensland were poached by the Storm after the demise of the Crushers and Chargers. The Storm would have struggled without these players. They also rorted the salary cap.

Why are you talking about the Eagles, Dockers, Crows and Power?

They're AwFuL clubs based in rusted on fumbleball markets.

Adding an AwFuL team into a rusted on fumbleball market is altogether different to bringing in a Perth-based NRL team.

Lions and Swans have been propped up by AwFuL for decades and rely on on-field success.

How do you explain the Broncos growing their fanbase after the Dolphins were introduced into the NRL?

Using your argument, the Broncos' membership base and attendances should have declined. They grew their attendances and membership base.

Dolphins are the largest largest professional rugby league club in the world.

Why are you bringing up the American sports market?

There's only one code of football in America that's extremely popular at the professional level in every state and major city. It's not fragmented like Australia.

How is Major League Rugby faring in America?
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
f**k me you gibber on with some moronic BS. Most of this is just nonsense or you attempting to branch off onto irrelevant tangents.

Here are the only relevant bits-
The ARLC is unwilling to fund top down investment in non-RL markets.
Then they'll stagnant and eventually be outcompeted by growing competition.

When you stop growing, you start dying.
Why are you talking about the Eagles, Dockers, Crows and Power?
Because whether you like it or not they're examples of expansion franchises. The VFL/AFL expanded into those markets with those teams, just like the NSWRL/ARL/NRL expanded into e.g. Brisbane with the Broncos. You can say that they aren't relevant, but that'd just be you missing the point.
Lions and Swans have been propped up by AwFuL for decades and rely on on-field success.
Firstly, the Swans don't rely on on-field success and have been independently sustainable off it for an extended period now.

Secondly, it's because of the long term financial growth that having teams in those markets provides. Hundreds of millions invested now = billions in revenue over the long term. Besides they would have more than paid for themselves in increased broadcast and sponsorship value alone, and both were necessary for the decade on decade increase in growth that the sport has seen in both Sydney and Brisbane, and NSW and Qld more boardy.
Why are you bringing up the American sports market?
Same as above really. They're just more examples of franchise/license systems that're comparable to the NRL system.

Their methods and reasons for expansion are broadly analogous to the industry standards in the Australian professional sports industry, unlike the European football pyramids for example. We're ever increasingly emulating the Americans in this regard BTW, and for good reason as well, whatever we may think of them, they are the most successful at it in the world.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,294
Or the Swans, Storm, Warriors, WC Eagles, Crows, Dockers, etc, [insert every example of NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS, etc, expansion teams and relocations from the last 50ish years here].

Top down investment is the only viable method for expansion and market growth in a franchise system in the modern world of instant gratification and extreme competition in the entertainment sector. You may not like it, but it's how the industry works.

Placing more and more teams in the same markets will just split those pies into smaller and smaller pieces, so the only way to genuinely expand the customer base is to enter new markets, and that can be costly and is often time consuming.

Most franchise leagues have entry fee. For NFL for example fee will be 100's of $millions. They don't prop up teams like AFL..
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,620
For the 100th time the argument against actual expansion can be summarised as "Rugby League can never possibly appeal to anyone outside of NSW and QLD" so we can only hope to stagnate within our own small pool.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,817
The ARLC is unwilling to fund top down investment in non-RL markets. It cost News Ltd/ARLC $100m over two decades -- during a period when News Ltd held a 50% stake in the NRL -- to make the Storm mildly successful off the field. The Storm average 16k at MRS with a team that's been camped inside the top four of the premiership ladder for the bulk of their existence. That's terrible for a city of Melbourne size. There's only 5k players in the state.

Would the Storm have enjoyed so much success without the axing of the Reds, Mariners, Crushers, Chargers and Rams?

Plenty of their players came from the Mariners and Reds. Marcus Bai was poached from the Chargers. Quality juniors from Queensland were poached by the Storm after the demise of the Crushers and Chargers. The Storm would have struggled without these players. They also rorted the salary cap.

Why are you talking about the Eagles, Dockers, Crows and Power?

They're AwFuL clubs based in rusted on fumbleball markets.

Adding an AwFuL team into a rusted on fumbleball market is altogether different to bringing in a Perth-based NRL team.

Lions and Swans have been propped up by AwFuL for decades and rely on on-field success.

How do you explain the Broncos growing their fanbase after the Dolphins were introduced into the NRL?

Using your argument, the Broncos' membership base and attendances should have declined. They grew their attendances and membership base.

Dolphins are the largest largest professional rugby league club in the world.

Why are you bringing up the American sports market?

There's only one code of football in America that's extremely popular at the professional level in every state and major city. It's not fragmented like Australia.

How is Major League Rugby faring in America?
The Broncos were top of the ladder last season, they also got a new exciting young fullback. Those things are more likely to explain their increase in popularity rather than just the introduction of the Dolphins.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,620
The Broncos were top of the ladder last season, they also got a new exciting young fullback. Those things are more likely to explain their increase in popularity rather than just the introduction of the Dolphins.
Would anyone else be concerned that the so- called "largest Rugby League club on the planet" (direct quote from @Get Rid of The Donkeys ) play multiple home games at a 12k capacity footy park?

Dolphins are the largest largest professional rugby league club in the world.

I assume this is a typo and he meant 2nd. But even that's a worry. It means our sport is incredibly niche playing at such small venues.

Also what's the Dolphins crowd average sans Broncos?
 
Messages
14,822
The Broncos were top of the ladder last season, they also got a new exciting young fullback. Those things are more likely to explain their increase in popularity rather than just the introduction of the Dolphins.
Penrith won the minor premiership.

Dolphins averaged 32k at Lang Park with a team that had limited on-field success.

Your argument can be used against Melbourne Storm, BTW.
 
Messages
14,822
f**k me you gibber on with some moronic BS. Most of this is just nonsense or you attempting to branch off onto irrelevant tangents.

Pot. Kettle. Black. The bulk of your verbose posts are filled with misused terminology and baseless claims that you pretend are facts.

Your posts don't say anything meaningful: they're just an attempt to sound intelligent and bore the shit out of everyone.

Here are the only relevant bits-

Then they'll stagnant and eventually be outcompeted by growing competition.

When you stop growing, you start dying.

What evidence do you have to substantiate this claim?

RU expanded into Perth and Melbourne. They've never been weaker.

Super Rugby was at its peak with teams in Brisbane, Canberra and Sydney. Attendances were better than the NRL during this period.

The Australian broadcast rights for Super Rugby have declined in value since the game expanded into Perth and Melbourne.

RU's decline blows your argument apart.

A-League expanded, too. It's never been more irrelevant.

At one stage both competitions were drawing crowds similar to the NRL. Now they're worthless to Foxtel.

Because whether you like it or not they're examples of expansion franchises. The VFL/AFL expanded into those markets with those teams, just like the NSWRL/ARL/NRL expanded into e.g. Brisbane with the Broncos. You can say that they aren't relevant, but that'd just be you missing the point.

Eagles had to be bailed out by Indian Pacific.

Power have struggled at times.

Lions were mired in debt a decade ago.

Swans ratings on TV are mediocre.

None of those "expansion" teams are equal to the Broncos. There's no NRL team that can draw bigger TV ratings than the Broncos.

The Western Australian AwFuL clubs draw horrible ratings in the world's second largest fumbleball market.

Firstly, the Swans don't rely on on-field success and have been independently sustainable off it for an extended period now.

Secondly, it's because of the long term financial growth that having teams in those markets provides. Hundreds of millions invested now = billions in revenue over the long term. Besides they would have more than paid for themselves in increased broadcast and sponsorship value alone, and both were necessary for the decade on decade increase in growth that the sport has seen in both Sydney and Brisbane, and NSW and Qld more boardy.

You don't have any evidence that these "expansion" teams provide AwFuL with more money from sponsorship and broadcast deals.

You're assuming the revenue AwFuL generates is due to expansion. The fact is the VFL always had a larger membership base than the NSWRL and drew higher attendances.

The NSWRL added four expansion teams in 1995 when it became the ARL. The broadcast deal with Packer did not increase.

Can you tell me how much extra money the AwFuL expansion clubs have added to sponsorship and broadcast deals?

Same as above really. They're just more examples of franchise/license systems that're comparable to the NRL system.

Their methods and reasons for expansion are broadly analogous to the industry standards in the Australian professional sports industry, unlike the European football pyramids for example. We're ever increasingly emulating the Americans in this regard BTW, and for good reason as well, whatever we may think of them, they are the most successful at it in the world.

Do the American leagues have a variable funding scheme like AwFuL to fund expansion?

If not then it's an irrelevant comparison.

It's dumb to compare a relatively small, fragmented and oversaturated market with America.
 
Messages
14,822
Dolphins have been an immense success. Great thing is that they left room for southern Brisbane club.
It's funny watching Dane pretend the Dolphins have been a failure while telling us every other expansion team is good.

Dane and mongoose really hate the fact there's room for expansion in southern Brisbane. They have a massive chip on their shoulder.

Dane once claimed that roofless NFL stadia are superior to Lang Park because they have more space around their grounds for fans to beat a drum before kick off.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
34,444
G
do you understand the concept of building a customer base? If youre not selling your product in an area you cant expect their to be customers falling over themselves there. Build it and they will come.
and 4,100 reg players is not a poor number. Its close to on par with many NRl clubs regions in heartland RL areas.
gws and Gold Coast suns say hello

funny without the benefit of a super league war afl in nsw and qld is as popular as a fart in a crowded lift
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
34,444
It's funny watching Dane pretend the Dolphins have been a failure while telling us every other expansion team is good.

Dane and mongoose really hate the fact there's room for expansion in southern Brisbane. They have a massive chip on their shoulder.

Dane once claimed that roofless NFL stadia are superior to Lang Park because they have more space around their grounds for fans to beat a drum before kick off.
Mongoose said a Perth nrl would ….

send a message to the afl

Dane is just a jaded ex super league fan who left the raiders once they rejoined the arl for the brumbies only to see them collapse
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,620
It's funny watching Dane pretend the Dolphins have been a failure while telling us every other expansion team is good.

Dane and mongoose really hate the fact there's room for expansion in southern Brisbane. They have a massive chip on their shoulder.

Dane once claimed that roofless NFL stadia are superior to Lang Park because they have more space around their grounds for fans to beat a drum before kick off.
No one can seriously argue that any stadia in Australia is on par with that of the US professional sports.

Lang Park is the best stadium in the country for RL, but you can't compare it to Allegiant or Cowboys stadiums.
 

Bukowski

Bench
Messages
2,692
No one can seriously argue that any stadia in Australia is on par with that of the US professional sports.

Lang Park is the best stadium in the country for RL, but you can't compare it to Allegiant or Cowboys stadiums.
Great viewing from every seat, but the stadium itself is now old and outdated.
 

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