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18th club, whose next?

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
Last NRL attendance at hbf was 6k: lower than number Perth red always uploads from 2012(?). 2019 Optus crowd still higher than 2023 double header. Which direction nrl crowds going in Perth?! Let me help you; opposite to up!!

Apologize for saying I said post was incorrect.

Yeah that is incorrect.

Perth hosted Origin in 2019. They hosted a double header in 2018 and the crowd last year was a lot better


Crowd 38,824 - 2018
Crowd 42,042 (Newcastle vs Dolphins) and 45,814 (Souths vs Cronulla)
 
Messages
14,822
Huh? Why am I only considering HBF Park now? Shifting goalposts?

By the way if you weren’t such a dullard you would have noticed that I was responding to GROTD’s post. His post framed it as Force crowds from when they started vs Reds crowds from when they first started, so why would I argue using different parameters to him.

I suggested that when you argue with context i.e. notice the trends of Super Rugby crowds going down dramatically (if you follow the link you can check Super Rugby attendances from 2003 to now) and NRL crowds increasing significantly then perhaps it is not as easy to just draw a line and say well they won’t be as popular as the Force because of what happened twenty years ago. Notwithstanding that this attendance data happened so long ago that inherently there is a question of relevancy.

Also, I have given you a pretty succinct answer about the current record. You are essentially arguing that the record for a Wallabies game is an indication for a total audience but a State of Origin match which had only a thousand or so less isn’t. Do you know how crazy that sounds?
You do realise that the Reds were the only expansion side from 1995 to average less than 20k to their home games, right?
IMG_1862.jpeg

The data speaks for itself. Perth was lightyears behind Brisbane 2, NQ and Auckland, despite having a strong roster that won half of its games.

The same holds true today.

It would be insane to choose Perth over bids from locations that are lightyears ahead of it on every metric.
 
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Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,620
You do realise that the Reds were the only expansion side from 1995 to average less than 20k to their home games, right?
View attachment 83127

The data speaks for itself. Perth was lightyears behind Brisbane 2, NQ and Auckland, despite having a strong roster that won half of its games.

The same holdals true today.

It would be insane to choose Perth over bids from locations that are lightyears ahead of it on every metric.
The Reds had a better crowd average then 12 other sides in the ARL. And were in a true expansion area.

To say it would be "insane" is massive hyperbole and makes you appear to be a moron.
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
The Reds had a better crowd average then 12 other sides in the ARL. And were in a true expansion area.

To say it would be "insane" is massive hyperbole and makes you appear to be a moron.

Perth over bids from locations that are lightyears ahead of it on every metric - that bit is a tad hyperbolic as well.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,817
You do realise that the Reds were the only expansion side from 1995 to average less than 20k to their home games, right?
View attachment 83127

The data speaks for itself. Perth was lightyears behind Brisbane 2, NQ and Auckland, despite having a strong roster that won half of its games.

The same holds true today.

It would be insane to choose Perth over bids from locations that are lightyears ahead of it on every metric.
aren't you always saying Perth won't be able to attract any talent? but apparently they had a strong roster in 1995
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
You do realise that the Reds were the only expansion side from 1995 to average less than 20k to their home games, right?
View attachment 83127

The data speaks for itself. Perth was lightyears behind Brisbane 2, NQ and Auckland, despite having a strong roster that won half of its games.

The same holds true today.

It would be insane to choose Perth over bids from locations that are lightyears ahead of it on every metric.

That’s an exaggeration mate. Perth is taking a long term view and it is a risk but it is not light years behind every other option.
 
Messages
14,822
Perth over bids from locations that are lightyears ahead of it on every metric - that bit is a tad hyperbolic as well.
Name one metric that Perth beats Brisbane 3 and NZ 2?

All I've heard from the usual suspects is we need to put a team in Perth because it might generate new fans, players and increase the flow of money from sponsorship and broadcast rights. The reality is the proposed benefits -- which are wrongly purported to be undeniable facts -- are grossly exaggerated by delusional people with an agenda. Any increase in participation, fans, sponsorship and broadcast revenue will be easily matched and surpassed by the other locations bidding for an NRL licence.

It's better to generate new players in Queensland, NZ and PNG because the benefits will flow beyond NRL to Origin and Test football. PNG has the potential to provide dozens of world class players to the NRL. Southern Brisbane, Ipswich and Logan has a nursery of players that can rival the Panthers with the right pathways. New Zealand has the potential to create dozens of superstars with enough funding and better pathways. The odds of Perth's pathways generating genuine superstars are so remote it's not worth considering.

Brisbane 3 is lightyears ahead of Perth in generating revenue from football operations, value to broadcasters, juniors, fans and infrastructure. New Zealand 2 provides more value than Perth on all fronts and just needs a viable bidder. PNG lacks the commercial appeal, but that's irrelevant because their bid is funded by the Aus and PNG Gov.

The dullard you responded to is an abusive troll who fears Brisbane 3 and PNG will hurt the Cowboys. He thinks the annual grant is enough to cover the cost of running an NRL club.
 
Messages
14,822
aren't you always saying Perth won't be able to attract any talent? but apparently they had a strong roster in 1995

The game wasn't fully professional in 1995. Most of the clubs struggled to pay the bills.

Now the game is fully professional and all player salaries are covered by the ARLC. The Reds were financially unviable and spent more than they could generate to acquire a strong roster.

If a Perth-based team was announced tomorrow for 2028 then every other club will lock down the marquee players well in advance of Perth's entry.
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
Name one metric that Perth beats Brisbane 3 and NZ 2?

All I've heard from the usual suspects is we need to put a team in Perth because it might generate new fans, players and increase the flow of money from sponsorship and broadcast rights. The reality is the proposed benefits -- which are wrongly purported to be undeniable facts -- are grossly exaggerated by delusional people with an agenda. Any increase in participation, fans, sponsorship and broadcast revenue will be easily matched and surpassed by the other locations bidding for an NRL licence.

It's better to generate new players in Queensland, NZ and PNG because the benefits will flow beyond NRL to Origin and Test football. PNG has the potential to provide dozens of world class players to the NRL. Southern Brisbane, Ipswich and Logan has a nursery of players that can rival the Panthers with the right pathways. New Zealand has the potential to create dozens of superstars with enough funding and better pathways. The odds of Perth's pathways generating genuine superstars are so remote it's not worth considering.

Brisbane 3 is lightyears ahead of Perth in generating revenue from football operations, value to broadcasters, juniors, fans and infrastructure. New Zealand 2 provides more value than Perth on all fronts and just needs a viable bidder. PNG lacks the commercial appeal, but that's irrelevant because their bid is funded by the Aus and PNG Gov.

The dullard you responded to is an abusive troll who fears Brisbane 3 and PNG will hurt the Cowboys. He thinks the annual grant is enough to cover the cost of running an NRL club.

For NZ 2? Corporates and sponsorship. New Zealand isn’t a big place with massive corporate dollars hanging around. You probably also get more money from Australian TV companies for a Perth side as opposed to a NZ side.

For both NZ 2 and Brisbane. You don’t run the risk of impacting existing clubs.

Regarding PNG: Pretty much everything except potentially the development of players. PNG just doesn’t lack commercial appeal, it lacks common sense.
 
Messages
14,822
For NZ 2? Corporates and sponsorship. New Zealand isn’t a big place with massive corporate dollars hanging around. You probably also get more money from Australian TV companies for a Perth side as opposed to a NZ side.

For both NZ 2 and Brisbane. You don’t run the risk of impacting existing clubs.

Regarding PNG: Pretty much everything except potentially the development of players. PNG just doesn’t lack commercial appeal, it lacks common sense.
Perth won't get any money from Ch9.

NZ2 is a better option for Foxtel because it allows NZ to host the dreaded 6pm Fri AEST game.

TV ratings for AwFuL are terrible in Perth. For RL it's just 5k on PTV and 8k on FTA. Being two hours behind the east coast really hurts ratings on a Thursday and Friday night.

Corporate facilities at PRS are bog average.
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
Perth won't get any money from Ch9.

NZ2 is a better option for Foxtel because it allows NZ to host the dreaded 6pm Fri AEST game.

TV ratings for AwFuL are terrible in Perth. For RL it's just 5k on PTV and 8k on FTA. Being two hours behind the east coast really hurts ratings on a Thursday and Friday night.

Corporate facilities at PRS are bog average.

There is a bit to unpack there.

1. That depends on a lot of things. It depends on Channel Nine retaining the rights and it also depends on what framework they have if they retain the rights. If it is the same arrangement as it is now, they probably won’t be paying much more than they are now; even more so if there is no competitive tension. They have shown no inclination to pay more regardless of who is in the competition.

2. Why would Foxtel care who hosts the 6pm game? That is the same thing as somebody saying that they need Perth to host the Sunday 6pm game (which by the way you have rejected as unimportant). They’ll want those time slots for whomever is in the competition. The argument is that it is better for the clubs to not have to host those games because it impacts on their attendances.

A couple of additional things on this: how does a Kiwi side help Australian advertisers and secondly what are the current ratings for the Warriors on PayTV. Those things are more important.

Lastly, being two hours ahead of the east coast doesn’t really help with ratings in NZ either.

An additional Kiwi side would have massive benefits for the competition (take on RU, build the sport in NZ and development of players etc) but I struggle to see how it would be a TV decision

3. Corporates and sponsorship is more than just corporate facilities at a ground.
 
Messages
14,822
There is a bit to unpack there.

1. That depends on a lot of things. It depends on Channel Nine retaining the rights and it also depends on what framework they have if they retain the rights. If it is the same arrangement as it is now, they probably won’t be paying much more than they are now; even more so if there is no competitive tension. They have shown no inclination to pay more regardless of who is in the competition.

The Perth market is almost as useless to the Australian FTA networks as the NZ market is to them.

2. Why would Foxtel care who hosts the 6pm game? That is the same thing as somebody saying that they need Perth to host the Sunday 6pm game (which by the way you have rejected as unimportant). They’ll want those time slots for whomever is in the competition. The argument is that it is better for the clubs to not have to host those games because it impacts on their attendances.

Foxtel don't care who hosts the game, but benefit from airing a match in this timeslot. The clubs don't want to host it. The only clubs that benefit from hosting it are Warriors and NZ2.

The 6pm Sun AEST game isn't as much of a crowd killer as 6pm Fri AEST or 7.30pm Thurs AEST.

A couple of additional things on this: how does a Kiwi side help Australian advertisers and secondly what are the current ratings for the Warriors on PayTV. Those things are more important.

The Warriors don't rate too well on Australian PTV.

NZ2 offers little to the Australian broadcasters, but they double the amount of local content for NZ TV.

Perth offers nothing to the Australian and NZ broadcasters.

I'm yet to see any evidence that the broadcasters and sponsors are holding back the amount of money they're willing to pay to the current clubs because Perth lacks a team.

Lastly, being two hours ahead of the east coast doesn’t really help with ratings in NZ either.

6pm Fri AEST is 8pm NZST. Prime time for the NZ market and ideal for Foxtel in Australia.

6pm Sun AEST is 4pm AWST. Not prime time for Perth.

An additional Kiwi side would have massive benefits for the competition (take on RU, build the sport in NZ and development of players etc) but I struggle to see how it would be a TV decision

NZ TV benefits from NZ2.

3. Corporates and sponsorship is more than just corporate facilities at a ground.

How does a Perth-based team increase the amount of revenue the Cowboys, Broncos and Roosters generate from their sponsors and corporate hospitality?

The argument from Perth Red and mongoose is our clubs receive less revenue from corporate hospitality and sponsorship due to not having teams in Adelaide and Perth. I haven't seen any evidence to back up their argument.

I don't see any evidence of a Perth-based team generating much revenue from sponsorship and corporate hospitality. The reality is only a dozen or less of their games will be broadcast on FTA. Of the ones that are broadcast on FTA, all will be televised into Perth on 9Gem or 9Go.

How many Perth-based companies are interested in promoting their product to rugby league fans in Queensland and NSW?

For a start, they would need to have stores in Queensland and NSW. Cash Converters is the only company from Perth that comes to mind. Retravision used to have stores in Queensland, but they have retreated back to Perth.
 
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Messages
14,822
That’s an exaggeration mate. Perth is taking a long term view and it is a risk but it is not light years behind every other option.

FTA TV Ratings
Brisbane 111K
Perth 8K

Registered Players
QRL 62k
WARL 4.1k.

Lang Park is the best rugby league stadium in the world.

PRS is a dump and 40 years out of date. FIFA turned it down for a quarter final at the women's world cup.

Brisbane Tigers have a high performance training centre and $135m worth of assets. Perth bid has zero assets and will be starting from scratch with no high performance training centre.
 
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