18th club, whose next?

[Menaiduck]

what backended contract? The deal in 23 and 24 is alleged $473mill. This recoups the losses made in 20&21 for them. If you want to compare apples with apples you'd need to compare the NRL deal for the same period in time when we also lost $50mill plus but arent getting any of it back. Which time period do you want to compare?

This conversation has been going for months and is basically the same post repeated endlessly to no effect. Keep bashing away though.

 

[mongoose]

lol, can you name me any year in the last 20 that NRL got more TV money than AFL?? Whether you want to avg out over some unfathomable time frame or want to look at an individual year, reality is since at least 2012 we have never had a bigger media revenue. You can argue that's due to conflicted ownership, starting behind the 8 ball, less teams, less time per game, less advert breaks or maybe its because they have major metro reach where 90% of media advertising is spent. what ever the reasons the facts remain. And to top it off we've just locked into a 5 year deal that is already way behind them in the first 2 years!

Honestly it's not even about TV revenue, both codes are probably overpaid anyway and lucky to get what they get. The fact is League is barely taken seriously in half the country because it has such little presence and has no long term strategy to place professional teams or develop grassroots in half the country. People can laugh at GWS and the Suns but at least AFL has some ambition to grow its game in non heartland areas. Business and government see this and take that code more seriously than NRL which is completely fixated on NSW vs QLD.
If AFL was only played in VIC, SA and WA then you would be really laughing at it...

 

[Perth Red]

This conversation has been going for months and is basically the same post repeated endlessly to no effect. Keep bashing away though.

yes youd think people would get it by now after all the explaining I've done and facts I've shown!

 

[Perth Red]

Honestly it's not even about TV revenue, both codes are probably overpaid anyway and lucky to get what they get. The fact is League is barely taken seriously in half the country because it has such little presence and has no long term strategy to place professional teams or develop grassroots in half the country. People can laugh at GWS and the Suns but at least AFL has some ambition to grow its game in non heartland areas. Business and government see this and take that code more seriously than NRL which is completely fixated on NSW vs QLD.
If AFL was only played in VIC, SA and WA then you would be really laughing at it...

Its a bit chicken and egg though. They've been able to invest so heavily in expansion of their game as their revenue is significantly higher than NRL's. If the expansion is a part of driving the revenue gap, or the revenue gap is allowing them to be aggressive in their expansion is hard to say!
I mean I presume if the NRl had an extra $250mill a year coming in they'd be spending some of it in growing the game you'd hope?

 

[Wb1234]

Honestly it's not even about TV revenue, both codes are probably overpaid anyway and lucky to get what they get. The fact is League is barely taken seriously in half the country because it has such little presence and has no long term strategy to place professional teams or develop grassroots in half the country. People can laugh at GWS and the Suns but at least AFL has some ambition to grow its game in non heartland areas. Business and government see this and take that code more seriously than NRL which is completely fixated on NSW vs QLD.
If AFL was only played in VIC, SA and WA then you would be really laughing at it...

Ok the nrl should put a team in nyc and give them fifty million pa then it can pretend it’s also American

 

[Perth Red]

You don’t like any comparisons which make afl look odious huh

it’s been shown time and again how much seven and foxtel will pay the afl next year and it’s less than the nrl

people asked you to explain where the extra revenue came from and you couldn’t

if it makes you happier believing afl earns more that’s fine I’m happy thinking they don’t

How is $473mill less than $402mill + $20mill digital?

 

[Perth Red]

Ok the nrl should put a team in nyc and give them fifty million pa then it can pretend it’s also American

I'm sure if it gave them the exposure AFL gets in Sydney, drove revenue up and they had the spare cash to do it they might consider it lol

 

[Wb1234]

I'm sure if it gave them the exposure AFL gets in Sydney, drove revenue up and they had the spare cash to do it they might consider it lol

The reality is afl spends 100 million pa on 3 clubs who aren’t financially viable and probably never will be

the nrl is doing the exact opposite with its expansion teams.

afls whole build it and they will come approach to expansion is just arrogance and hubris tbh

 

[Perth Red]

The reality is afl spends 100 million pa on 3 clubs who aren’t financially viable and probably never will be

the nrl is doing the exact opposite with its expansion teams.

afls whole build it and they will come approach to expansion is just arrogance and hubris tbh

Not really, if they had the same grant system as NRL then each club would get $17.5mill. so these expansion clubs are really 'only' getting around $6-8million extra a year compared to if they had a same for everyone system. If you think spending $25mill extra a year on 3 expansion clubs is a worthwhile investment or not is a personal opinion. they clearly do. They've leveraged bigger tv contracts due to having more games to sell and are reinvesting that money back into growing their game. They'll probably do the same when they go to 20 teams over the next 5 years or so.

 

[Wb1234]

Not really, if they had the same grant system as NRL then each club would get $17.5mill. so these expansion clubs are really 'only' getting around $6-8million extra a year compared to if they had a same for everyone system. If you think spending $25mill extra a year on 3 expansion clubs is a worthwhile investment or not is a personal opinion. they clearly do. They've leveraged bigger tv contracts due to having more games to sell and are reinvesting that money back into growing their game. They'll probably do the same when they go to 20 teams over the next 5 years or so.

The way the ratings have shifted so heavily in leagues favour means that era is over. Because the clubs it’s added havent added to the tv ratings there has been no growth in their figures.

with the addition of the dolphins there’s an additional 8 million viewers a year for rugby league

 

[Perth Red]

The way the ratings have shifted so heavily in leagues favour means that era is over. Because the clubs it’s added havent added to the tv ratings there has been no growth in their figures.

with the addition of the dolphins there’s an additional 8 million viewers a year for rugby league

I'm sure wookie can tell us if that is correct or not.
from memory it seemed NRL used to smash AFL in overall audience figures, then when they went to 18 teams it got pulled back and there was some years it was neck and neck, but a resurgence has seen NRL pull ahead again in last couple of years, especially as Kayo seems to be attracting a lot of NRL fans to it?
Overall audience is only one metric though in terms of rights value. IF they achieve $500mill from '25 onwards on top of their $473mill first two years of this cycle we are going to look pretty silly given our big audience advantage, especially as you say with the addition of 12 extra games.

 

[Wb1234]

I'm sure wookie can tell us if that is correct or not.
from memory it seemed NRL used to smash AFL in overall audience figures, then when they went to 18 teams it got pulled back and there was some years it was neck and neck, but a resurgence has seen NRL pull ahead again in last couple of years, especially as Kayo seems to be attracting a lot of NRL fans to it?
Overall audience is only one metric though in terms of rights value. IF they achieve $500mill from '25 onwards on top of their $473mill first two years of this cycle we are going to look pretty silly given our big audience advantage, especially as you say with the addition of 12 extra games.

There’s a thread on ratings

the problem for afl is that for around two thirds of Australia there ratings are poor. And despite hundreds of millions thrown into these areas they aren’t rising

 

[Perth Red]

There’s a thread on ratings

the problem for afl is that for around two thirds of Australia there ratings are poor. And despite hundreds of millions thrown into these areas they aren’t rising

2/3rds? NSW and Qlnd is only half of Australia's population.

Theres stil a lot of growth potential in non NRL states if Ch9 and NRL got their act together. For example on FTA AFL in Brisbane and Sydney regularly gets 25-50k a game where as NRL gets 8-9k in Perth and Melbourne. Might not sound a lot but over a full season it adds up significantly. They also have the 4th FTA game which could be a big thing for us for game 9.

 

[Colk]

There’s a thread on ratings

the problem for afl is that for around two thirds of Australia there ratings are poor. And despite hundreds of millions thrown into these areas they aren’t rising

To be honest the answer is probably in the middle of what the AFL have done and what the NRL have done.

It is very hard to argue that the Swans and the Lions haven’t been a success for them. They may have overstretched themselves with the Giants (still in question but it will eventually work) whilst the Suns have been a mistake (the area is or even half the population of Adelaide and GC notoriously hasn’t worked for any sport)

There would and should be enough support for the game in Adelaide and Perth considering their population size and demographic to sustain teams there

 

[Perth Red]

To be honest the answer is probably in the middle of what the AFL have done and what the NRL have done.

It is very hard to argue that the Swans and the Lions haven’t been a success for them. They may have overstretched themselves with the Giants (still in question but it will eventually work) whilst the Suns have been a mistake (the area is or even half the population of Adelaide and GC notoriously hasn’t worked for any sport)

There would and should be enough support for the game in Adelaide and Perth considering their population size and demographic to sustain teams there

Perth
NZ2
Adelaide

add them and you've got genuine expansion and growth into new markets. That'd see the comp right for a long time to come and basically take us to where we would have been if the SL war had never happened.

If PNG ever got its sht together as country you could add them and Brisbane3 in decades to come for extra consolidation of existing RL markets.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

NRL expansion strategy should not be based around a LC in Springwood lol

NRL expansion should be based around economics and potential growth. For this reason I'd have the Titans build a Leagues Club somewhere so they can earn enough money to invest in junior RL and promote themselves heavily. We both know the NRL don't spend much on junior development whereas AwFuL is investing big on the Gold Coast. A Titans Leagues Club can help our game counter AwFuL's big money. I don't give a f**k if pokies are immoral or whatever excuse the Andrew Wilkies of the world use to despise them. At the end of the day adults are free to make their own choices and some are just stupid enough to gamble theirs away. If their losses help junior RL then that's a good thing as they would only waste it on something else if there weren't any pokies.

yeah im sure they're regretting have exposure in all major capitals and having the largest broadcast deal.....

The exposure is great but it comes at a cost. Saying that, I think we can afford an NRL team in Perth.

 

[Wb1234]

2/3rds? NSW and Qlnd is only half of Australia's population.

Theres stil a lot of growth potential in non NRL states if Ch9 and NRL got their act together. For example on FTA AFL in Brisbane and Sydney regularly gets 25-50k a game where as NRL gets 8-9k in Perth and Melbourne. Might not sound a lot but over a full season it adds up significantly. They also have the 4th FTA game which could be a big thing for us for game 9.

Canberra

 

[Perth Red]

Canberra

half afl isnt it lol
Not sure adding 400k people adds 13mill up to 2/3rds of 26million.

 

[Wb1234]

To be honest the answer is probably in the middle of what the AFL have done and what the NRL have done.

It is very hard to argue that the Swans and the Lions haven’t been a success for them. They may have overstretched themselves with the Giants (still in question but it will eventually work) whilst the Suns have been a mistake (the area is or even half the population of Adelaide and GC notoriously hasn’t worked for any sport)

There would and should be enough support for the game in Adelaide and Perth considering their population size and demographic to sustain teams there

Yeh I agree the answer is in the middle but I’m trying to show how the afl is an extreme and it’s a very high risk strategy

the lions and swans get good crowds but the lions have always been weak financially

and for all the praise afl get the suns and giants are basket cases. Putting an afl team in homebush and thinking the people of western Sydney would support it is just stupid.

people on here are questioning how viable a png nrl team is. Yet if they had half the financial suport the afl gives they would be way more succeful for rugby league

afl seems to be praised as visionary for throwing endless money at the lions giants and suns yet the same people will then say a png nrl team doesn’t make sense financially

 

[Perth Red]

Yeh I agree the answer is in the middle but I’m trying to show how the afl is an extreme and it’s a very high risk strategy

the lions and swans get good crowds but the lions have always been weak financially

and for all the praise afl get the suns and giants are basket cases. Putting an afl team in homebush and thinking the people of western Sydney would support it is just stupid.

people on here are questioning how viable a png nrl team is. Yet if they had half the financial suport the afl gives they would be way more succeful for rugby league

afl seems to be praised as visionary for throwing endless money at the lions giants and suns yet the same people will then say a png nrl team doesn’t make sense financially

1/2 what afl is spending is the NRL grant lol. PNG would need A LOT more than the current NRL grant. Then you have to consider ROI. Metro cities add value to TV deals and sponsorships, PNG doesnt sadly. PNG is a feel good for RL and would be great for Jnr development opportunities, but from a business case it really doesnt stack up in any way.

Arent the GWS membership and avg attendance on par or better than most Sydney NRL clubs? And they generate $21mill in revenue before the AFL grant which would be more than a lot of NRL clubs in FC operations alone. How are you defining them as basketcases?