18th club, whose next?

[Wb1234]

You assume those people like League only to start with though.

How many kids for example could be swayed because insert AFL player came to their school and gave them a ball?

That is what AFL is banking on.

IF NRL went there it would be to shore up that area and bring some juniors into the game to assist Perth and other areas that will struggle in that regard.

AFL would fight back and waste more money which would help League in the long term

Exactly what I’m saying

 

[LimeRick]

AFL has things like salary cap relief to ensure Swans and Lions stay successful. So you never see them struggle hence they stay semi relevant in those markets

From 2010 to 2018, the Lions finished in the bottom four seven out of nine seasons, and still missed finals the other two. The Lions have definitely struggled.

 

[Colk]

You assume those people like League only to start with though.

How many kids for example could be swayed because insert AFL player came to their school and gave them a ball?

That is what AFL is banking on.

IF NRL went there it would be to shore up that area and bring some juniors into the game to assist Perth and other areas that will struggle in that regard.

AFL would fight back and waste more money which would help League in the long term

No I didn’t. I said the opposite.

I’m assuming that overall audiences fit into three broad categories

1. People who just like league or fumbleball or soccer or whatever. This would be still fairly significant but it would be probably declining. It’s more a remnant of views coming from people who only grew up with one sport and that is becoming less and less common.
2. People who like both or who like multiple sports. That probably means that their attention will be focused by how well some team they support in whatever competition is going.
3. People who don’t like any sport. Their views aren’t likely to change whatever you do.

Now your audience is coming from either 1 or 2. You are not likely to get much of your support from 1 because they would already be supporting some other side. Your audience is probably coming from number 2 and that will come from how well you market your product (which isn’t anything to do with fumbleball) or the success of a team. So if say the Lions are going well they will get more support no matter how many league sides there are in Brisbane. Conversely, if they are not going well their crowds will drop and will probably shift to league or other sports they might like.

Essentially you will come to the point wherein any new team support will come at the expense of existing sides or that the growth rate won’t be any higher than what the nominal population growth is. Now, I don’t necessarily think we are at that point with Brisbane but Brisbane is the same as any other market. I also don’t think we should be basing our decisions on what a competitor does.

 

[Maximus]

Another Apples v Oranges comparison

In US the owners put self interests over the sports.

Often they are the only ticket in town

Or in cases where there are multiple the owner has a link to the other sports.

The LA Kings owner. Not only has a stake in their home venue but also in the Lakers... So it is in his interest for both to co-exist.

Same too with both NY teams.

RU and RL don't play nice across Europe because they are fighting for the same people.

Same too here with 26 million. Split into half for the 2 major codes. NRL has ambition for the South Pacific.

AFL NSW/QLD so they both try to target the same casual fans

I'm glad you brought up LA. What did those teams do when the Rams and Chargers decided to move to LA? Nothing despite NFL being the bigger sport. What about the Golden Knights when the Raiders moved to Vegas?

Sports in America share cities all across the country, because unlike ours, they aren't insular and petty. In America it's acceptable to watch and support multiple sports. On LU you are attacked for doing so.

In America the big sports all coexist, and all manage to grow. In Australia, we think the only way to grow is to kill the competition. It's a pathetic and small-time mindset.

 

[Colk]

None of the new clubs will get over 20k

those are the ones they have to fund

even an nrl club In Perth won’t be as much as a dud as any place afl can go other than Perth.

nz2 is going to add a lot to the nrl

this is where the nrl expanding to New Zealand is going to pay off and afls geographic insularity won’t

100% agree on that point.

 

[Colk]

I'm glad you brought up LA. What did those teams do when the Rams and Chargers decided to move to LA? Nothing despite NFL being the bigger sport. What about the Golden Knights when the Raiders moved to Vegas?

Sports in America share cities all across the country, because unlike ours, they aren't insular and petty. In America it's acceptable to watch and support multiple sports. On LU you are attacked for doing so.

In America the big sports all coexist, and all manage to grow. In Australia, we think the only way to grow is to kill the competition. It's a pathetic and small-time mindset.

100% agreed. It is a much more mature mindset (that’s saying something considering we are praising America here)

I dislike fumbleball because it is a terrible game imo. I like football quite a bit (soccer) as well as other sports like cricket, basketball, baseball and tennis. That doesn’t make me any less of a league supporter.

 

[Maximus]

100% agreed. It is a much more mature mindset (that’s saying something considering we are praising America here)

Sports is one of very few things they do well.

I dislike fumbleball because it is a terrible game imo. I like football quite a bit (soccer) as well as other sports like cricket, basketball, baseball and tennis. That doesn’t make me any less of a league supporter.

Yep I watch the grand final every now and then, because what else is on that day, and have watched 1 union game in the last 15 years (and that's because a friend of mine was making his wallabies debut), but apparently I'm not a true rugby league fan because I don't think either code should die.

 

[Perth Red]

haha I see the NRL's expansion decision has been pushed from 'early' 2024 to end of 2024. Seems like the turbo has some lag.

 

[Iamback]

I'm glad you brought up LA. What did those teams do when the Rams and Chargers decided to move to LA? Nothing despite NFL being the bigger sport. What about the Golden Knights when the Raiders moved to Vegas?

Sports in America share cities all across the country, because unlike ours, they aren't insular and petty. In America it's acceptable to watch and support multiple sports. On LU you are attacked for doing so.

In America the big sports all coexist, and all manage to grow. In Australia, we think the only way to grow is to kill the competition. It's a pathetic and small-time mindset.

The Rams moved to St Louis due to having a small fanbase. They moved back because the Owner was building a Stadium in LA

So again they owners do what they want with the sides over there.

Compare NFL to College football and the massive number that what that a week.

We have no such fans hidden away below the surface. So All sports fight for their share.

AFL are starting their season in NSW this year for the only reason to take fans from other codes... that is how it works with such a small market

 

[Iamback]

From 2010 to 2018, the Lions finished in the bottom four seven out of nine seasons, and still missed finals the other two. The Lions have definitely struggled.

Yep and their crowd stayed pretty much the same in that time. Goes up and down a few thousand.

TV Ratings the same

Similar with the Swans. You know they will pull between 30-40k at their games.

TV will be under 100k.

It isn't like there are hordes of people from sport to sport outside the odd event

 

[Iamback]

No I didn’t. I said the opposite.

I’m assuming that overall audiences fit into three broad categories

1. People who just like league or fumbleball or soccer or whatever. This would be still fairly significant but it would be probably declining. It’s more a remnant of views coming from people who only grew up with one sport and that is becoming less and less common.
2. People who like both or who like multiple sports. That probably means that their attention will be focused by how well some team they support in whatever competition is going.
3. People who don’t like any sport. Their views aren’t likely to change whatever you do.

Now your audience is coming from either 1 or 2. You are not likely to get much of your support from 1 because they would already be supporting some other side. Your audience is probably coming from number 2 and that will come from how well you market your product (which isn’t anything to do with fumbleball) or the success of a team. So if say the Lions are going well they will get more support no matter how many league sides there are in Brisbane. Conversely, if they are not going well their crowds will drop and will probably shift to league or other sports they might like.

Essentially you will come to the point wherein any new team support will come at the expense of existing sides or that the growth rate won’t be any higher than what the nominal population growth is. Now, I don’t necessarily think we are at that point with Brisbane but Brisbane is the same as any other market. I also don’t think we should be basing our decisions on what a competitor does.

I like many sports infact Ice Hockey I like more than NRL, Not sure many people have time to watching every sport as much as they would like though.

We aren't talking hitting like on a teams social media page. We are talking spending a few hours and a couple of hours a week attending sport.

We are seeing it currently with cricket. No one can argue it isn't popular, yet attendance has fallen.

I doubt to many people on this RL forum have gone to watch a neutral side play in the last few years

 

[Wb1234]

I like many sports infact Ice Hockey I like more than NRL, Not sure many people have time to watching every sport as much as they would like though.

We aren't talking hitting like on a teams social media page. We are talking spending a few hours and a couple of hours a week attending sport.

We are seeing it currently with cricket. No one can argue it isn't popular, yet attendance has fallen.

I doubt to many people on this RL forum have gone to watch a neutral side play in the last few years

I have I went to watch eels panthers grand final

other than a bit of ufc every other sport bores me to tears

watching a game of afl or union would be worse than a Sunday church service when you are hung over

 

[Iamback]

I have I went to watch eels panthers grand final

other than a bit of ufc every other sport bores me to tears

watching a game of afl or union would be worse than a Sunday church service when you are hung over

Grand Finals are more an event but you are one on here that can say you have.

I used to but work, getting dragged to kids shit doesn't leave time to escape. Penrith I can walk to so is easy enough away games are rare

 

[Wb1234]

Grand Finals are more an event but you are one on here that can say you have.

I used to but work, getting dragged to kids shit doesn't leave time to escape. Penrith I can walk to so is easy enough away games are rare

I’ve probs been to under 10 games in ten years tbh

but I was averaging 40 games a year for a few years before tha

I had members seats at homebush so would go to good dogs games or the Easter games which were an event

mate just got free members tickets for the teat match tomorrrow sitting with the paki team I said no lol

 

[jim_57]

We don't need a team in Perth to host a game on Sunday at 6pm AEST.

A 9.30pm Saturday game doesn't offer much for ratings. Neither does a 1pm game.

I said WA only for an 8pm AEST Sunday game, 6pm Sunday while great for WA fans can and will still be allocated to East Coast clubs.

1 Thursday, 2 Friday, 3 Saturday, 3 Sunday is perfect for 9 games. The 10th either has to be either a return of the Monday night game, going 4 games on a Sunday or a mix of both throughout the year.

 

[Perth Red]

I said WA only for an 8pm AEST Sunday game, 6pm Sunday while great for WA fans can and will still be allocated to East Coast clubs.

1 Thursday, 2 Friday, 3 Saturday, 3 Sunday is perfect for 9 games. The 10th either has to be either a return of the Monday night game, going 4 games on a Sunday or a mix of both throughout the year.

WA does also offer the option of adding in some saturday night 9 or 9.30pm games AEST.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I said WA only for an 8pm AEST Sunday game, 6pm Sunday while great for WA fans can and will still be allocated to East Coast clubs.

1 Thursday, 2 Friday, 3 Saturday, 3 Sunday is perfect for 9 games. The 10th either has to be either a return of the Monday night game, going 4 games on a Sunday or a mix of both throughout the year.

If we want to get more out of FTA then we need to provide two 7.30pm Friday AEST games to cater to the Brisbane and Sydney markets. Foxtel can have the privilege of broadcasting both games live nationwide. Everything is currently skewed to suit Foxtel.

 

[Nerd]

Look at Brisbane as a perfect example.

The Lions have what 50k fans?

Dolphins and Broncos 80k combined... in a city of 2.5m they are fighting to convert the rest.

That is what the spend is for. Gets those not with a preference.

Multiply the Broncos and Redcliffe fans by a factor of 4 and your probably a bit closer to the real numbers. TV ratings for Broncos and Redcliffe games are through the roof where as ratings for Lions and Suns games in Brisbane are poor.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Multiply the Broncos and Redcliffe fans by a factor of 4 and your probably a bit closer to the real numbers. TV ratings for Broncos and Redcliffe games are through the roof where as ratings for Lions and Suns games in Brisbane are poor.

In 2023, games featuring the Broncos, Dolphins and Lions averaged 170k, 126k and 48k FTA TV viewers in Brisbane , respectively.

 

[Kurt Angle]

Strawman.

I say Ch9 will pay more for Brisbane 3 than Perth because the former will allow them to recoup more money through advertising.

@Perth Red misrepresents Ch9's position on the Dolphins. They didn't provide extra revenue because they lost access to four Broncos games and the rights weren't put on the open market. No team comes close to drawing as many viewers on FTA across the country as the Broncos.

If you think a Perth-based team will be as relevant around the country as the Storm then you're deluded.

Not even the West Coast Eagles can compete with the big Melbourne clubs for national relevance. It's foolish to think a Perth-based NRL team will draw anything but low ratings in Brisbane and Sydney. Perth is not Melbourne. The dynamics in SEQ and Sydney in 2023 are different to when the Storm entered in 1998. Perth will be another Titans.

It isn't Perth RL vs Titans which will be the ratings winner.

It'll be the live Perth vs Broncos/Rabbitohs/Eels as a 2nd game which will be the ratings winner.

It's the 'live game' aspect which is known to increase rating's, and the 2 hours time difference make it much more plausible