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1st Test - Australia v India at Melbourne Dec 26-30, 2011

AlwaysGreen

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First of all, can one of the site administrators look at the ignore options of this forum please? Bunniesman still seems to be seeing my posts even though I'm meant to be on his ignore list.

Being the incumbent and not getting picked when you regain your fitness = dropped. Katich and Hughes should have opened together.
Katich wasn't dropped, injury prevented his return. At the time the selectors didn't want to change the combo of Hughes and Watson, which is laughable but also justifiable. At the time that opening combination at least showed a little promise. The biggest hurdle katich had to coming back in the side was the appointment of Clarke as captain. They don't get along just like ponging and hodge didn't get along.

It's bullshit and childish but that is cricket sometimes.
I never said he would be back. At this point it's too late.
Then why go on about it? Not you but the whole 'bring back kat' industry. Time to move on.

My hometown wouldn't let you in. You'd be stopped at the border with Cremorne...they like your kind in Cremorne, you'd fit in there.
Mate, I'd be given the key to Mosman. I'd raise the IQ by 67.34% and the class of the place by a thousand.
 

Hutty1986

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Watto's generally good for a 12 or so.. or looking like a million dollars on his way to 45/95 and finding a magical new way to get out
 

AlwaysGreen

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Watson in 2011 has less call on an opening spot that Phil Hughes. If he's not able to bowl then he should (but won't miss out). Screws up the balance a fair bit.

The problem with Watson opening is that he's taking the Matthew Hayden approach to opening: to see off the new ball you smash it all around the park playing shots every delivery. Unfortunately this method only works on flat tracks and against pie chuckers.
 

Twizzle

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If you put some one on ignore you cant view their posts, however they can still view yours.
 

Twizzle

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There was an article shown on Fox this morning, by Punter saying we need experience in our middle order.

Would probably have been better if it came from some one else other than the man who's head is on the chopping block.

No point in having experienced batsmen who cant make runs.

Then there is an interview from Sunshine say we need experienced guys like Punter around the team.

No, once again, we need runs.

I'm really getting sick of reading the same old cliches from different people who can only recite cliches and cant think for themselves. To me it just shows their lack of intelligence.
 
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There was an article shown on Fox this morning, by Punter saying we need experience in our middle order.

Would probably have been better if it came from some one else other than the man who's head is on the chopping block.

No point in having experienced batsmen who cant make runs.

Then there is an interview from Sunshine say we need experienced guys like Punter around the team.

No, once again, we need runs.

I'm really getting sick of reading the same old cliches from different people who can only recite cliches and cant think for themselves. To me it just shows their lack of intelligence.

QFT!

Warner is inexperienced and he absolutely and completely proved that experience means F*CK ALL!

They need cliches to justify their decision making and to justify Ponting's retention in the side, because the only thing saving Ponting right now is his 'experience'. Yeah lets just forget he hasn't scored a REAL century since July 2009 (his double century was a not a real century since it was a tainted test and he was out on 0) and that he averaged 16 against the Poms and 17 against South Africa.

Let's take a look at his last few series:

99 in three innings against NZ. Failed when the side needed his experience in the final test.
70 runs in 4 innings against SAF, including a 62. 8 runs in the other three innings.
124 runs in four innings against SL. Average of 31.
113 runs in seven innings against England with a top score of 51* (at the road of a pitch in Brisbane I believe). That means in the most important series of the last few years he scored 62 runs in 7 innings. I'll repeat that. 62 runs in 7 innings!

If any other player had those sort of runs in that series they would have been sacked immediately.

Ponting has done nothing to justify his position in the side.


He needs to go!
 
Last edited:

AlwaysGreen

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49,241
There was an article shown on Fox this morning, by Punter saying we need experience in our middle order.

Would probably have been better if it came from some one else other than the man who's head is on the chopping block.

No point in having experienced batsmen who cant make runs.

Then there is an interview from Sunshine say we need experienced guys like Punter around the team.

No, once again, we need runs.

I'm really getting sick of reading the same old cliches from different people who can only recite cliches and cant think for themselves. To me it just shows their lack of intelligence.

Watson should not be allowed to come within 100 metres of a journalist or microphone. The guy has no idea and contradicts himself over and over.

Handspitter has never been one of Australia's favourite cricketers but I at least admired him for his batting and his fielding which when he was at his best was brilliant. The longer he plays the less worth those memories are.

Ponting is in real danger of being remembered by everybody as a Tasmanian bogan who spat on his hands and stayed on for two years too long, not as a great cricketer.
 

Earl

Coach
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16,804
I think the thing I fear the most is that against India all these guy may have a 'little' bit of success.

The 4 games against India will be played at the MCG, Adelaide, the WACA and the SCG all of which will be better tracks for batting on then what they have playing on in the last while. (Not that I think the wickets lately have been bad, they have been excellent for Test Cricket)

If Ponting, Hussey, Haddin etc come out and score a few half centurys each Clarke and co will be all like 'see we told you sticking by them was the right thing to do'

Then they carry on into the next few series with the same group of players and get f**king walloped, due to batting collapses and then next September we are sitting here in the same f**king situation.

Well actually we would be in a worse situation because we would be going into back to back Ashes campaigns with out having blooded a few players he may be crucial to winning the Ashes back.
 

BunniesMan

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Watson shouldn't be in the team if he can't bowl. His batting form simply hasn't warranted him being picked as a specialist batsman. I don't remember the exact statistic but Watson has been out 1st more often than Hughes when they've opened together this year.
 

lockyno1

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Watson in 2011 has less call on an opening spot that Phil Hughes. If he's not able to bowl then he should (but won't miss out). Screws up the balance a fair bit.

Well yes, but in the one test he couldn't bowl, he did make 80 odd in Jo'burg.
 

yappy

Bench
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4,161
Well yes, but in the one test he couldn't bowl, he did make 80 odd in Jo'burg.
Yes, as did Hughes. Hughes in now gone for shit batting. If Watson continues to bat like shit then how can he stay opener? If Watson wasn't so valuable with the ball now his spot would be under the same sort of scrutiny that Hughes' was. Now because of his bowling I'm not calling for him to go, but with Warner in now and potentially Cowan I think we have better opening options than Watson, that also gives him the opportunity to move down the order a bit to take the pressure off his bowling.

But, if he can't bowl and he keeps batting like he has this year, then his spot in the side is unsustainable and he should follow Hughes back to NSW. I think he got lucky missing these last two tests. The swing and seam the kiwi bowlers have produced would have had him knicking off or lb for sfa every innings. (but f**k it would have been good to have him bowling in Hobart)
 

yappy

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That's the thing about Watson. I don't think he's necessarily one of our top 6 bats (although at this moment the options are admittedly thin), and neither do I believe he would or could play as a 3rd seamer. But his all round value really does make him an important part of the side so long as he's in at least serviceable form in both disciplines.

If Watson can't bowl then he has to bat as well as he did in his hot streak up to the Ashes consistently. Without many big scores he needs to churn out the 50s or he becomes a liability. Conversely if he completely loses the plot as a batsman his bowling can't justify a top 6 batting spot. I don't think if any three of Cummins, Pattinson, Siddle (bowling full), Harris, or soon Hazelwood are fit that Watson can play as seamer only. His body would give out anyway. If he can average mid 30s with the bat and better than that with the ball you'd always have him in your top 6 somewhere, but as a specialist his spot is under severe question.

I certainly wouldn't rush him back for the MCG if he can't bowl. Let Cowan take his spot and rely on Huss, Pup and Warner for a few extra overs, or even look to Christian in place of Ponting. With no match fitness nor form coming into the match it's pretty likely retaining Hughes would be a better option.
 

Twizzle

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Australia to work on swing weakness at batting camp

Brydon Coverdale
December 14, 2011

Australia's struggling batsmen will be sent for remedial work against the moving ball as they prepare for the Boxing Day Test against India. Four of the men who played in Australia's shock loss to New Zealand in Hobart will head to Melbourne early for a batting camp as the coach Mickey Arthur aims to shore up their techniques after they battled to handle seam and swing at Bellerive Oval.
Ricky Ponting, Michael Hussey, Brad Haddin and the captain Michael Clarke will take part in the camp, from December 20 to 22. They will be joined by Shane Watson, who is hoping to be fit for Boxing Day after suffering a hamstring injury in South Africa last month. Daniel Christian, the 12th man from the Hobart Test, will also take part, as will Shaun Marsh, but only if his ongoing back problem allows.
Cricket Australia described the batting camp as a way to complement the preparation of David Warner, Phillip Hughes, Usman Khawaja and Ed Cowan, who will at the time be playing for the CA Chairman's XI against the Indians in Canberra. Australia's selectors will choose the squad for the Melbourne Test after the three-day Chairman's XI game.
There is much work to be done for the batting group. Against New Zealand they struggled to deal with the accurate swing and seam of Doug Bracewell, Chris Martin, Trent Boult and Tim Southee, while on the previous tour in South Africa they were demolished for 47 when the ball nipped around on a challenging Newlands pitch.
It is not confined to those series. Australia were dismissed for 88 when Pakistan swung the ball on the first day in Leeds last year, and for 98 last Boxing Day against England. In the previous two series, only Clarke and the newcomer David Warner averaged more than 30, of the specialist batsmen, and they are also the only men to have scored centuries.
"Obviously I was disappointed," Arthur said after the loss in Hobart. "The swinging ball was one thing that again probably exposed us a little bit. That's going to be top of the agenda to work on before Boxing Day because I know [India coach] Duncan Fletcher really well and I know he'll try and expose us with the swinging ball. We need to put a hell of a lot of work into that, especially with our top seven batters. That's going to be the focus."
High on the agenda will be working against the style of bowling likely to come from India, whose Test attack will be spearheaded by Ishant Sharma and Zaheer Khan, who is returning from injury. Last time India played Tests in Australia, Ishant was a teenage prodigy whose angle in to the right-handers troubled Ponting especially.
During one magnificent spell at the WACA, where India won, Ishant worked Ponting over for an hour and began to expose the vulnerabilities that have plagued Ponting since. Although his overall record against Australia is moderate, Ishant has dismissed Ponting and Clarke six times each from eight Tests, while he has also picked up Watson's wicket four times from five games.
"The bowling machine is probably going to replicate that a little bit," Arthur said. "We can work on angles that Ishant bowls and how Ishant bowls, try and replicate how he bowls. I think if we can get a couple of extra days into our batters, to sharpen them up and sharpen their techniques up, I think that's going to be invaluable ahead of what is a massive series for Australia."
In his first two Tests in charge, Arthur has seen the best and the worst of the side, with their strong victory at the Gabba followed by their first loss to New Zealand in 18 years. That inconsistency is one of the major problems the team needs to rectify, and often it is the senior members of the side rather than the younger men who are up and down.
One example is Haddin, the vice-captain for the New Zealand series. In Cape Town he played two reckless shots to get out in trying circumstances, before he contributed two valuable half-centuries in Johannesburg and Brisbane to help set up Australia's wins. But that was again followed by two poorly-judged shots to get out in Hobart.
In the first innings, Haddin lobbed Bracewell to mid-off to leave Australia at 6 for 69, and in the chase, he was dropped at slip one ball and caught in the cordon the very next delivery, having not learnt from his error, driving at a Southee outswinger. Arthur said to some degree the Australians had to accept the aggressive style was Haddin's natural game but that he, like all the batsmen, needed to adapt to the situation.
"One of the key words I used [in the post-match address] was 'resilient'," Arthur said. "The situation out there demanded a little bit of resilience and I was a little bit disappointed through the middle how we folded. Those are things we've discussed, we've discussed them openly and honestly.
"You'd like to think the guys who are more experienced are able to adapt to the situation. I would think that your experienced players would do that very comfortably. They've all been in that position before and won games for Australia."
Before their Test batting camp, all the batsmen are expected to appear in a Big Bash League match, subject to fitness, with the exception of Hughes, who has withdrawn from the T20 tournament. Their focus will need to quickly return to the longer format when they convene in Melbourne next Tuesday.



http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2011/content/story/545340.html
 

Earl

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That too me, just confirms that there will not be any changes for boxing day.

Watson will come in for Hughes, and the rest of the batting line-up will come back from a batting camp "hitting them really well"

Although at least Mickey Arthur and Pat Howard are trying to rectify the situation, which is far more than Tim Neilson ever tried to do.
 

AlwaysGreen

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I assume the batting coach will be attending the batting camp :lol: I can see the quotes now:

'Ricky is hitting them well at batting camp'.
 

Hutty1986

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I assume the batting coach will be attending the batting camp :lol: I can see the quotes now:

'Ricky is hitting them well at batting camp'.

:lol::lol: "Punter looked sensational out there.. he hit 12 runs off a really quick 14 year old's first over"
 

Twizzle

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at least they are trying to do something about our batting, no point in playing beat off cricket to rectify this situation
 

hineyrulz

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I assume the batting coach will be attending the batting camp :lol: I can see the quotes now:

'Ricky is hitting them well at batting camp'.
"And Rick one a few battles in there" :crazy: Still can't believe the space cadet didn't get the arse.
 

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