2017 Crowd Watch

[taipan]

At the end of the day, RL has been played for more than 100 years, in the winter months and is engrained in the culture of Sydney and Brisbane as the most supported football code. Anything below a 20-25k league average should be a disappointment given the dominance of the game in the Sydney and Brisbane cultural landscape. It points to a serious lack of engagement between the league, its clubs and its supporters to ensure broad, mass appeal in attending games, that does not seem to be so visible in other sports across the country and the world.

The records show even before the huge Tv deals, enabling people to watch the game live on TV ,the crowds were hardly inspiring ,and Sydney then was not the congested mess it is now.TV exposure was at a minimum.
How many other sports had a SL war, that decimated the game, nearly killing it off?

The question is would the Eels v Dogs have got a 20,000 crowd on a Saturday arvo or Sunday arvo,inseatd of last night's poor number.The answer is yes.
If the Knights were coming 3rd ,would their crowds be well up?The answer is obvious.
The Raiders have shown, when they are doing well their crowds are up ,as is their membership.

It has been shown many times, family friendly scheduling assisted attendances, even in average stadiums.The Broncos in a rl city complain about having hgme games played at times that don' tsuit their fans.

The A league and union would disagree with you re crowds in this country.And ditto the Brisbane Lions.
Who controls the AFL schedule ? The Tv stations ? No.

IMO their are many factors affecting crowds, and they are different to the AFL.One, because all their stadiums are all seater, centralised near direct transport or near their fan base,in far less congested/and or better public transport orientated cities.
It wouldn't matter how ,much the NRL spent advertising a Thursday night or 6pm Friday night match here, fans understand the problems and act accordingly.None of this was the situation decades ago.

 

[Hank_Scorpio]

The records show even before the huge Tv deals, enabling people to watch the game live on TV ,the crowds were hardly inspiring ,and Sydney then was not the congested mess it is now.TV exposure was at a minimum.
How many other sports had a SL war, that decimated the game, nearly killing it off?

The question is would the Eels v Dogs have got a 20,000 crowd on a Saturday arvo or Sunday arvo,inseatd of last night's poor number.The answer is yes.

The A league and union would disagree with you re crowds in this country.And ditto the Brisbane Lions.
Who controls the AFL schedule ? The Tv stations ? No.

You have to ask why all those point are the case? Is the culture more realistically a passive interest with a clear lack of a more fanatical attitude towards the game? In these instances is 20k averages more a pipedream or a longer term target than short term?

RL in AUS has only itself to blame for the SL war and it would be stupid for other sports not to capitalise or use this as a lesson to learn themselves on managing teams and the competition.

I don't see why the A league is brought into this conversation. I've seen it referenced a few times in here to be a '2nd tier sport', so why would you benchmark yourself against inferior competition rather than a competitor that helps drive improvement?

Referring to one team in a competitor benchmark is not reflective of the indicator you're trying to assess. You could also reference the Adelaide teams and look at how they have gone, average wise, but that is a reflection of better facilities and attraction of attending games in that city.

The scheduling issues comes down to the negotiation ability of the monkeys in charge in getting a deal that best represents not only monetary value of the game but control of how that game is presented to its fanbase. It seems in the last deal that money was the only factor and the NRL didn't want to seem to be behind the AFL in this area, but gave up a number of key aspects to get it. In the end does that in itself come at a cost to the game and particularly attendances?

Surely it's a tough gig to engage investors and sponsors when you take them to a game with a buttload of empty seats.

 

[Timmah]

Yadda Yadda, Sydney this, afl that. Fact is the game is at best stagnant despite huge sums of money and independent ownership. Anyway you want to spin it that is shthouse.

That is by far the stupidest generalised comment made in this thread to date.

"Huge sums of money" is not a valid argument.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

How many hundreds of millions has been spent on Sydney just since the ARLC took over?

8.5 clubs x NRL hand out + development staff + all other costs x 5 years.

Have to be half a billion. Easy.

Those tv numbers better be astronomical.

 

[taipan]

You have to ask why all those point are the case? Is the culture more realistically a passive interest with a clear lack of a more fanatical attitude towards the game? In these instances is 20k averages more a pipedream or a longer term target than short term?

RL in AUS has only itself to blame for the SL war and it would be stupid for other sports not to capitalise or use this as a lesson to learn themselves on managing teams and the competition.

I don't see why the A league is brought into this conversation. I've seen it referenced a few times in here to be a '2nd tier sport', so why would you benchmark yourself against inferior competition rather than a competitor that helps drive improvement?

Referring to one team in a competitor benchmark is not reflective of the indicator you're trying to assess. You could also reference the Adelaide teams and look at how they have gone, average wise, but that is a reflection of better facilities and attraction of attending games in that city.

The scheduling issues comes down to the negotiation ability of the monkeys in charge in getting a deal that best represents not only monetary value of the game but control of how that game is presented to its fanbase. It seems in the last deal that money was the only factor and the NRL didn't want to seem to be behind the AFL in this area, but gave up a number of key aspects to get it. In the end does that in itself come at a cost to the game and particularly attendances?

Surely it's a tough gig to engage investors and sponsors when you take them to a game with a buttload of empty seats.

No.I believe NRL fans are passionate about the game,citing the mob who marched when Souths were flicked.
AFL Melbourne fans are almost North Korean like, fed the propaganda from the day they are born to the day they cark it.They have a fan base fairly strong through all strata of life.NRL/rl fans were split due to union having the so called "upper strata" LOL.

It was the success of rugby league and their expansion initially into Perth/Brisbane 2/Townsvile and Auckland ,plus the Tina Turner promotion that prompted Murdoch at the prodding of Ribot and Co in Brisbane to suggest to him,the best way to get into Pay TV is via sport.and the ARL cr5aps over everyone else.
Problem being Packer already had the rights.
If rugby league is to blame for the SL war ,due to being successful at promotion,then AFDL better watch out.
The A League is brought into the equation, because it is a major code ,and has little opposition in summer.It relies on a couple of clubs with huge fans bases to even get the average crowds they do. Their Tv ratings are abysmal, despite all the talk of them being a huge threat to NRL and to a lesser extent AFL.

"Referring to one team" .I mentioned Parramatta,Canterbury,Souths,Knights for a start during 2012 and how their success helped boost crowds.Also the scheduling was better than the dross we have now.

The scheduling came down to a Gallop involved deal prior to the current one negotiated(part of the reason he was flicked then),the removal of the F&L:rights handicap and the need to at least get close to the AFL one(which I agree with you on that point).It appears there was give and take on both sides.It happens in negotiations.

From 2018 supposedly the NRL controls the scheduling.And we get $19bn in loot.Now the bone of contention is where is it currently most needed and what are the priorities? I have already outlaid my view on that
.Bear in mind David Gallop was involved in major decision making exercises from 1997 in the NRL, firstly as their in house Legal and Business adviser, then as CEO of the NRL.Ask yourself how were the TV deals and scheduling ,and Govt lobbying for new infrastructure ,with his involvement.
If you get screwed on TV deals ,you need more than one decent one to make up for it.

Of course everyone wants to see near full or full stadiums, however the AFL in the Nthn states with a couple of clubs has a problem with crowds.
Firstly sponsors want their product shown to as many eyeballs as possible,TV is that medium,hence the big money for SOO.And SOO on and off had some games with decent numbers of empty seats
It hasn't stopped the West Tigers from grabbing decent sponsorship, putting them in a decent financial position in 2018.

 

[taipan]

How many hundreds of millions has been spent on Sydney just since the ARLC took over?

8.5 clubs x NRL hand out + development staff + all other costs x 5 years.

Have to be half a billion. Easy.

Those tv numbers better be astronomical.

Well the NRL has spent quite a bi(millions)t on a QLD team TItans and a non Sydney team the Knights to keep them going.So just as well they had money on hand to do so.
If my memory is correct, the NRL may have helped the Cowboys financially when they were struggling before they became strong enough.
Well the SOO makes up a fair swag of Tv monies.
Monies achieved because quite a few players come from Sydney based clubs.And the consumer market for Kentucky chicken,VB,Holden whatever is far greater in Sydney than Brisbane.3 times? The TV ratings for Sydney over 3 matches is hardly chicken feed.

Maybe if the NRL had a Nth Sydney/CC team, the code might have Volvo or audi as sponsors ,who the f... knows.

 

[Perth Red]

Proving once again you have NFI about Sydney,and could be living in a lean to in Somalia and pretend to be an expert.
You wouldn't know a traffic light,from a headlight.

OK champ,do a bit of research ,if you are capable of doing so.
In season 2012,the Bulldogs were minor premiers (a major Sydney drawing club when successful.Guess what the Rabbitohs were coming 3rd in the comp, again when successful, drag in the crowds.
RD 1 the Warriors played the Eagles at Eden Park getting over 37,000.
Newcastle Knights were getting crowds and not hopeless performers, of 24-29,000 at Hunter on a regular basis in that year.No Thursday night or 6pm Friday football to stuff things up.All helping averages.


If big drawing clubs perform poorly, if they operate at the same time in ANZ stadium at dumb hours it affects crowds.

Once again you cannot bring yourself to accept the fact AFL have made some financial blunders.You sir are nothing more than a whining, fumbler stooge,living in a bubble of your own making, and proving the whining Pom title, is alive and well in this country.

And melad, I have never suggested the game is growing ,except marking time.

But I have also outlaid the fact money should be spent first where it is desperately needed, and current NRL clubs should at least be given an opportunity to perform with the new Cap.
Fix the plumbing and whiteant issues, then you can extend the house.Not the other way round.

Stop being a tool and think before you type. I wasn't going off one year, just picked that as the peak. We had 4 years of crowd avg's over 16k 2009-2012, from 2013 they started to drop and have continued to do so since. Whats that you say? around about the time the mega $ TV deal kicked in and the game commission took over? Yep. Mor emoney than the game could have dreamed of in 1990, more control over the game than Gallop could have dreamed of in 2010, yet 5 years of plod despite all the advantages the commission has had. Stop making excuses for them, they have done a sht job.

afl - yadda yadda

 

[Perth Red]

That is by far the stupidest generalised comment made in this thread to date.

"Huge sums of money" is not a valid argument.

Really? in the past we blamed not having any money, now we have billions so we move on to the next excuse, top marks to Taipan for identifying road congestion in Sydney as the latest excuse lol, not sure how that plays out in Auckland or Melbourne or Canberra or Wollongong though? Or why that is an issue when we steadfastly stick to using suburban grounds because they are easier for people to get to?

We've gone from blaming poor tv deals and News ltd conflict of ownership excuses to KO times and traffic.

 

[El Diablo]

you blamed the sun, rain, AFL and no free umbrellas ffs

they you claimed ticket prices were higher despite ticketek showing they weren't

 

[taipan]

Stop being a tool and think before you type. I wasn't going off one year, just picked that as the peak. We had 4 years of crowd avg's over 16k 2009-2012, from 2013 they started to drop and have continued to do so since. Whats that you say? around about the time the mega $ TV deal kicked in and the game commission took over? Yep. Mor emoney than the game could have dreamed of in 1990, more control over the game than Gallop could have dreamed of in 2010, yet 5 years of plod despite all the advantages the commission has had. Stop making excuses for them, they have done a sht job.

afl - yadda yadda

You cite a year ,I knocked it on the head.Take it like a man FFS and not being a whimpo.I can and will only respond to what is in front of me.I don't intend to be a mind reader of someone who is off the planet.

The NRL admin is far from perfect and having News for 50% of the time made it even less from far from perfect.
Since 1995 the code has been hogtied.By negligence yes, by poor deals yes,buit you can only go with the funding you have.

Homework for class champ.Take it year by year, venue by venue, schedule by schedule,monday nioghts,no Monday nights,Thursday nights and 6 pm Fridays,country and Interstate and NZ country , unless you can do that the whole exercise is meaningless.And that's before you take into account ANZ stadium and Sydney's transport mess.If it wasn't a mess, the State Govt would be spending billions to improve a non mess sheesh.

I have shown time and time again ,you play matches at Sunday or Saturday afternoons for quite a few Sydney clubs, either local derbies but family friendly times crowds are far better.It doesn't sink into a head that is full of bitterness because things didn't happen as hinted at by Gallop.
Gallop the same gent who was involved in all major decision making and business decisions with the NRL from 1997 till when he was flicked.Ask him why we haven't had decent Govt funding for stadiums and the AFL had.

Again one more time, you cannot bring yourself to bag the AFL for monetary wastage ,club losses,a stagnant TV ratings in the NTH States,because it doesn't fit your whining agenda.A gutless wonder would offer more in constructive criticism.Is $93m loss from AFL clubs a sign of expertise?

You ignore Titans/Knights issues, you ignore grassroots, you ignore planning technology to ensure your future, you ignore huge increases in players salaries,wastage by Smith with his high paid staff since gone.

All you can come up with is yadda yadda,brilliant analyses LOL.
Keep sticking pins on maps, if that rocks your boat, because the realities are way out of your depth.

 

[taipan]

Really? in the past we blamed not having any money, now we have billions so we move on to the next excuse, top marks to Taipan for identifying road congestion in Sydney as the latest excuse lol, not sure how that plays out in Auckland or Melbourne or Canberra or Wollongong though? Or why that is an issue when we steadfastly stick to using suburban grounds because they are easier for people to get to?

We've gone from blaming poor tv deals and News ltd conflict of ownership excuses to KO times and traffic.

You need to pay attention more often whiner.Road congestion in Sydney has been part and parcel of my argument, tied in with scheduling for ages here.

I wish to advise as a result,you are in urgent need of an Optometrist.


Einstein you then tell the NRL how to solve all the issues, so far you have offered nothing but silly kid stuff figuring,like you are playing Monopoly.
If you believe expansion(pins on maps) now is going to solve the issues ,then you are dumber than I thought.

 

[Hank_Scorpio]

You cite a year ,I knocked it on the head.Take it like a man FFS and not being a whimpo.I can and will only respond to what is in front of me.I don't intend to be a mind reader of someone who is off the planet.

The NRL admin is far from perfect and having News for 50% of the time made it even less from far from perfect.
Since 1995 the code has been hogtied.By negligence yes, by poor deals yes,buit you can only go with the funding you have.

Homework for class champ.Take it year by year, venue by venue, schedule by schedule,monday nioghts,no Monday nights,Thursday nights and 6 pm Fridays,country and Interstate and NZ country , unless you can do that the whole exercise is meaningless.And that's before you take into account ANZ stadium and Sydney's transport mess.If it wasn't a mess, the State Govt would be spending billions to improve a non mess sheesh.

I have shown time and time again ,you play matches at Sunday or Saturday afternoons for quite a few Sydney clubs, either local derbies but family friendly times crowds are far better.It doesn't sink into a head that is full of bitterness because things didn't happen as hinted at by Gallop.
Gallop the same gent who was involved in all major decision making and business decisions with the NRL from 1997 till when he was flicked.Ask him why we haven't had decent Govt funding for stadiums and the AFL had.

Again one more time, you cannot bring yourself to bag the AFL for monetary wastage ,club losses,a stagnant TV ratings in the NTH States,because it doesn't fit your whining agenda.A gutless wonder would offer more in constructive criticism.Is $93m loss from AFL clubs a sign of expertise?

You ignore Titans/Knights issues, you ignore grassroots, you ignore planning technology to ensure your future, you ignore huge increases in players salaries,wastage by Smith with his high paid staff since gone.

All you can come up with is yadda yadda,brilliant analyses LOL.
Keep sticking pins on maps, if that rocks your boat, because the realities are way out of your depth.

I keep seeing you reference this $93m AFL club losses for 2016 but a quick glance online makes this seem improbable. Your figure would average a net loss of more than $5m per club, which does seem unlikely. A quick glance online has 11 of the 18 clubs showing a net loss position of $4.5m cumulatively, and does not include incredibly profitable clubs such as West Coast and Adelaide.

No doubt they are pouring lots of cash into expansion areas and I guess that's part of their long term strategy. Whether that pays off or not, time will tell.

I would assume there is a direct link in greater crowd numbers giving increased clout at NRL HQ to lobby for additional Govt funding on stadiums? I don't see governments, state or federal, being too excited on giving funds to a sport for stadiums that has a regular image of barely half full stadiums for many of the games played across Sydney.

 

[taipan]

I keep seeing you reference this $93m AFL club losses for 2016 but a quick glance online makes this seem improbable. Your figure would average a net loss of more than $5m per club, which does seem unlikely. A quick glance online has 11 of the 18 clubs showing a net loss position of $4.5m cumulatively, and does not include incredibly profitable clubs such as West Coast and Adelaide.

No doubt they are pouring lots of cash into expansion areas and I guess that's part of their long term strategy. Whether that pays off or not, time will tell.

I would assume there is a direct link in greater crowd numbers giving increased clout at NRL HQ to lobby for additional Govt funding on stadiums? I don't see governments, state or federal, being too excited on giving funds to a sport for stadiums that has a regular image of barely half full stadiums for many of the games played across Sydney.

It was specific clubs,of course not every club.Sure clubs made ( some decent ones )profits, just like The Broncos do ,South Sydney did on a couple of occasions.

And bear in mind there are a few clubs in Melbourne who get poker machine funding assistance.
Port Adelaide was at one time a basket case.Yes the WA clubs and Crows do exceptionally well, and their crowds also boost the AFL averages in all seat stadiums which are AFL friendly .

I agree the AFL are pouring large sums into expansion areas,because they are in a position where they can.They have the extra loot courtesy of bigger TV deals.I understand the AFL incurred a small loss also in 2016.

You won't get an argument from me, bigger crowds are a big incentive for Govt to spend on better infrastructure.it's called lobbying, and the NRL under Gallop did not have the initiative to do such a thing prior to the latest $1.6bn deal in Sydney for ANZ/Parramatta.
That being stated:-
The QLD Govt spent a motza on CBuS stadium on the GC for the Titans.The NSW State Govt spent millions on Spotless stadium for GWS whose crowds were mainly orange seats.The Vic Govt spend a motza on the Storm stadium,used by 3 teams ,usually plenty of empty spaces.I guess they are looking in the long term.

I'm sure( unless the Govt is really out of touch), that poor stadiums not configured to the rectangular codes and old infrastructure, is not going to draw crowds. The fact that rectangular stadiums can and will be used by 3 codes is a further incentive.
People demand comfort and decent viewing more these days ,softness is now a public trait TBH.

If rugby league was the only code playing rectangular stadiums, there would be little or less chance of large sums being expended by Govt.

I keep repeating ,where would rugby league be if 1995 SL hadn't happened?My view we'd be in a far better shape.You don't throw away $25m circa 95 which was on hand in the Bank,and use to pay possible defecting players and expect to be off to a good start.No code in this country could afford that, none.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Well the NRL has spent quite a bi(millions)t on a QLD team TItans and a non Sydney team the Knights to keep them going.So just as well they had money on hand to do so.
If my memory is correct, the NRL may have helped the Cowboys financially when they were struggling before they became strong enough.
Well the SOO makes up a fair swag of Tv monies.
Monies achieved because quite a few players come from Sydney based clubs.And the consumer market for Kentucky chicken,VB,Holden whatever is far greater in Sydney than Brisbane.3 times? The TV ratings for Sydney over 3 matches is hardly chicken feed.

Maybe if the NRL had a Nth Sydney/CC team, the code might have Volvo or audi as sponsors ,who the f... knows.

Do they spend $100,000,000 on Queensland every year? Because that's about the same sized market. And New Zealand? And Country NSW?

Conveniently ignoring the cash handed over to Sydney clubs like the basket case Tigers whose return to the game is 6,000 (fudged) crowds. For the amount of money pissed away on Sydney every year the sport could run a whole pro league in North America or Europe. And at least if they got 6,000 crowds in those markets it would look respectable because it's a new game, not one that's allegedly dominated the sporting landscape for a century.

 

[Perth Red]

And they have bigger tv deals because they have expanded. They have earnt the money to be able to invest by strategically growing their footprint, you know the pins in maps thing, and their crowds and their funding strategies. We've done what? Nothing in the last 5 years despite all the money and independent decision making.
How many of the main kpi's in the Strat plan has the nrl achieved? Re ARL having to spend its $25mill in the bank, the commission has just done exactly the same again and spend all the moe y that it saved during the last mega deal because it still can't pay its way. Why is That? Your an apologist for the commission yet slate gallop, thebgame has been plagued with sht administration since forever and probably always will be. There is a reason Samuels has jumped ship.

You are right in one thing afl is spending vast sums more than nrl on growing their game, and guess what it means their revenue compared to nrl's is massively more, which means they can spend even more and somitbgoes in business.

But back to crowds, weather is turning to sht here this afternoon just in time for nrl!

 

[Hank_Scorpio]

It was specific clubs,of course not every club.Sure clubs made ( some decent ones )profits, just like The Broncos do ,South Sydney did on a couple of occasions.

And bear in mind there are a few clubs in Melbourne who get poker machine funding assistance.
Port Adelaide was at one time a basket case.Yes the WA clubs and Crows do exceptionally well, and their crowds also boost the AFL averages in all seat stadiums which are AFL friendly .

I agree the AFL are pouring large sums into expansion areas,because they are in a position where they can.They have the extra loot courtesy of bigger TV deals.I understand the AFL incurred a small loss also in 2016.

You won't get an argument from me, bigger crowds are a big incentive for Govt to spend on better infrastructure.it's called lobbying, and the NRL under Gallop did not have the initiative to do such a thing prior to the latest $1.6bn deal in Sydney for ANZ/Parramatta.
That being stated:-
The QLD Govt spent a motza on CBuS stadium on the GC for the Titans.The NSW State Govt spent millions on Spotless stadium for GWS whose crowds were mainly orange seats.The Vic Govt spend a motza on the Storm stadium,used by 3 teams ,usually plenty of empty spaces.I guess they are looking in the long term.

I'm sure( unless the Govt is really out of touch), that poor stadiums not configured to the rectangular codes and old infrastructure, is not going to draw crowds. The fact that rectangular stadiums can and will be used by 3 codes is a further incentive.
People demand comfort and decent viewing more these days ,softness is now a public trait TBH.

If rugby league was the only code playing rectangular stadiums, there would be little or less chance of large sums being expended by Govt.

I keep repeating ,where would rugby league be if 1995 SL hadn't happened?My view we'd be in a far better shape.You don't throw away $25m circa 95 which was on hand in the Bank,and use to pay possible defecting players and expect to be off to a good start.No code in this country could afford that, none.

I think that the Vic lobbying helped with the fact that AAMI Park was built to not only be the home to two established teams in the Storm and Victory, but introducing new teams in the Rebels and Melbourne City. Same with Sydney I suppose in bringing a new team in the Giants to help fund spotless. The return on investment benefit is harder to push over the line if you are trying to obtain funding for current teams only with no real definitive indicator that the result of the investment will positively influence attendance and usage enough to warrant the investment being made. Victoria got Etihad stadium built to drag 6 or so teams away from smaller, out-dated home bases. Sydney needs to centralise infrastructure investment into key stadiums instead of spreading it thinner across multiple locations with reduced benefit to the average fan wanting a seat at a match. Then you would like to think attendances will improve with the improved facilities. Forgive my geographic naivety on Sydney and surrounds but there are other locations such as Newcastle that should be constantly updated to service that regional community in the same way Geelong has been able to do in Victoria.

 

[taipan]

Do they spend $100,000,000 on Queensland every year? Because that's about the same sized market. And New Zealand? And Country NSW?

Conveniently ignoring the cash handed over to Sydney clubs like the basket case Tigers whose return to the game is 6,000 (fudged) crowds. For the amount of money pissed away on Sydney every year the sport could run a whole pro league in North America or Europe. And at least if they got 6,000 crowds in those markets it would look respectable because it's a new game, not one that's allegedly dominated the sporting landscape for a century.

Sorry I can' t quantify in specifics. what has been spent in Qld/NSW and regionals.All I know decent amounts have been spent on two clubs who were in danger off going out the back door,and loans to the WT and Dragons,and yes money lent to the Sharks in the past.
I also know the regionals have been neglected, and I don't need a maths degree to know that.

When a team is coming stone motherless last ,playing a team from SEQ who brings no one, crowds of less than 10k is hardly unsurprising in a stadium SW of Sydney with minimal seating.

Think(no actually know) more has been spent on the Titans than the poor old Tigers TBH.They are the ones with one of the best rectangular stadiums in the country.and they an't anywhere near filling it.

And to be fair it can be argued ,not seeing a packed Suncorp(the best in the land) every time ,in a one city club is hardly inspiring.

 

[Timmah]

now we have billions

Jesus f**king Christ you're as thick as two short planks.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

When a team is coming stone motherless last ,playing a team from SEQ who brings no one, crowds of less than 10k is hardly unsurprising in a stadium SW of Sydney with minimal seating.

Easy fixed. Get rid of the club coming last whose home ground has poor facilities, is costing the sport more than most that can't pull a crowd.

This shit excuse that out of Sydney clubs don't bring fans to Sydney games is pathetic. It's (supposed to be) a "national" comp and Sydney clubs have the massive advantage of having the majority of opposition fans on their doorstep and still think playing a team from another city is reason to not show up. If you can't pull a respectable crowd without relying on away fans you shouldn't be in the national competition. That's before you consider the multitude of other reasons they aren't worthy.

 

[taipan]

I think that the Vic lobbying helped with the fact that AAMI Park was built to not only be the home to two established teams in the Storm and Victory, but introducing new teams in the Rebels and Melbourne City. Same with Sydney I suppose in bringing a new team in the Giants to help fund spotless. The return on investment benefit is harder to push over the line if you are trying to obtain funding for current teams only with no real definitive indicator that the result of the investment will positively influence attendance and usage enough to warrant the investment being made. Victoria got Etihad stadium built to drag 6 or so teams away from smaller, out-dated home bases. Sydney needs to centralise infrastructure investment into key stadiums instead of spreading it thinner across multiple locations with reduced benefit to the average fan wanting a seat at a match. Then you would like to think attendances will improve with the improved facilities. Forgive my geographic naivety on Sydney and surrounds but there are other locations such as Newcastle that should be constantly updated to service that regional community in the same way Geelong has been able to do in Victoria.

I think it was more the Victory rather than the Rebels that helped with the lobbying.Anycase the stadium is rarely full.
Again I suggest multi use stadiums regardless of crowd attendees are what the Govt are looking at.

In the case of GWS,they were the ones who made all the promises about being domiciled in Blacktown which was going to be their home,They dudes the local council moving out,dudded the State govt.Yet the State Govt was prepared to spend tens of millions on Spotless for years on pitiful crowds.Good lobbying in my view.

Shouldn't be ,current NRL teams have fans already in place, some active others sedentary.Historically there have been some big crowds at ANZ and Parra in the past involving Dogs/Parra/Tigers and Souths.The State Govt would be aware of these facts.Whereas a new team competing with the Swans already in place ,would be a riskier proposition.You(govt) just don't know what the future holds.

Melbourne's Etihad is near public transport direct,near the CBD.The AFL smartly in conjunction with ch7 got a bargain deal meaning they now own or will own Etihad.Sydney has nothing like that.The geography of this city(Sydney) and its spread is far bigger and spread than Melbourne.
Melbourne with a far better transport set up.
A classic example in Sydney is the F6 promised motorway.It's been in the plans for decades.Sti;l nothing has been done, and traffic has multiplied dramatically, to the extent on one occasion it took me 45 minutes to travel from Dolls Point to Brighton,a distance of about 3 -4kms on a weekday.Imagine if I'd been trying to get to the SFS for a 6pm game after work.
I attended the Grand Final by public transport, and despite late night departure still takes a fair whack of time to get home.