2018 Crowd Watch

[Billythekid]

Considering how fast Sydney is growing there is no way the NRL would want to remove teams now. Over the next 20 years it's going to go from like 5 million people up to as many as 8 million people. Doesn't seem like the best time to remove teams.

It's also a pointless discussion because the NRL simply won't go there.

I also don't believe it's the reason for Sydneys poor crowds. The AFL have shown that you can have that many teams in one city and still have fantastic crowds.

There are dozens of other problems which plague Sydney crowds which need to be addressed.

 

[LineBall]

Considering how fast Sydney is growing there is no way the NRL would want to remove teams now. Over the next 20 years it's going to go from like 5 million people up to as many as 8 million people. Doesn't seem like the best time to remove teams.

It's also a pointless discussion because the NRL simply won't go there.

I also don't believe it's the reason for Sydneys poor crowds. The AFL have shown that you can have that many teams in one city and still have fantastic crowds.

There are dozens of other problems which plague Sydney crowds which need to be addressed.

I wonder how much work the NRL does trying to get migrants interested in Rugby League? We all know demographics for Sydney are changing, and the vast majority of migrants would never have seen this sport before.

 

[greenBV4]

Ok what 4 teams do you think we should relocate and to where?

Why should I have to be an away member? why shouldn't I have a home ground to watch my team play? a dedicated seat in my teams venue that I have had for the past 20 years?

not 4, more like 1 or 2, then have 2 expansion clubs for an 18 team comp
Make it a process, x amount of years, first offer up $$$$ and incentives for any club that chooses to take up the offer then if not have a criteria sent to clubs for them to meet (memberships, crowds, stadium, tv viewership, financial situation)

 

[greenBV4]

I also don't believe it's the reason for Sydneys poor crowds. The AFL have shown that you can have that many teams in one city and still have fantastic crowds.

There are dozens of other problems which plague Sydney crowds which need to be addressed.

As others have said the relocation isn't to improve Sydney crowds, its about generating potentially larger crowds in new areas, If perth/nz 2 could have consistent crowds of 15-20k, or Brisbane 2 with 30k, why should a team like Manly who struggles to crack 10k (and are their tv numbers much better?) get to be in the way of those teams entering the comp

I don't know how Sydney crowds could be improved, maybe/hopefully parra stadium, or maybe it's just a lost cause

 

[Perth Red]

I have before outlined my strategic model of “soft relocation” which remodels the entire competition. “Culling” is dumb and absolutely the wrong strategy.

Soft relocation strategy for the growth of the NRL.

-The NRL reclaims 2 home games from every club, paying fair compensation based on modelling, as “neutral” rounds. The NRL selects the venues for these fixtures.
- The NRL pays the West Tigers, Manly and St George $10 mil per year for 4 years to relocate holus bolus to Perth, Gosford and Wollongong respectively.
- It immediately allocates the 2 neutral rounds for each of these clubs to their traditional home grounds in Sydney.
- It then allocates 2 more games from the neutral game pool for these teams back to their traditional home grounds in Sydney.
- All other remaining neutral games in the pool are allocated to strategic venues in regional areas (Penrith in Bathurst etc).
- Expand the comp bringing in Brisbane 2 and NZ2 or Adelaide depending on strength of bid

The benefits are enormous to relocated teams- Access to great stadia, a monopoly on a city for sponsorship, 40 mill in guaranteed revenue and a tangible connection to your historical fan base.

The benefits to the game are enormous- truly national scope, clear the Sydney logjam, total control over the draw, presence in every major city, interaction with the bush, massive increase in crowds and sponsorship.

The major drawback is the cost- but you have to speculate to accumulate and The AFL have shown that you can’t have a major national competition without throwing serious dollars at it.

Far too sensible and visionary!

 

[unforgiven]

not 4, more like 1 or 2, then have 2 expansion clubs for an 18 team comp
Make it a process, x amount of years, first offer up $$$$ and incentives for any club that chooses to take up the offer then if not have a criteria sent to clubs for them to meet (memberships, crowds, stadium, tv viewership, financial situation)

Worked so well last time lol

 

[Perth Red]

I think the nrl and clubs genuinely thought if they put effort and investment into growing memberships it would lead to significant crowd growth. This simply hasn’t happened and they need to go back to the drawing board. There are handicaps that we can’t change: tv schedule, Sydney traffic and sht public transport, small population clubs. But there are plenty we can such as fixture choices, admission costs, media negativity, more games in other cities, better game day experience etc.

Get offf your arses nrl and sort this sht out.

 

[unforgiven]

I have before outlined my strategic model of “soft relocation” which remodels the entire competition. “Culling” is dumb and absolutely the wrong strategy.

Soft relocation strategy for the growth of the NRL.

-The NRL reclaims 2 home games from every club, paying fair compensation based on modelling, as “neutral” rounds. The NRL selects the venues for these fixtures.
- The NRL pays the West Tigers, Manly and St George $10 mil per year for 4 years to relocate holus bolus to Perth, Gosford and Wollongong respectively.
- It immediately allocates the 2 neutral rounds for each of these clubs to their traditional home grounds in Sydney.
- It then allocates 2 more games from the neutral game pool for these teams back to their traditional home grounds in Sydney.
- All other remaining neutral games in the pool are allocated to strategic venues in regional areas (Penrith in Bathurst etc).
- Expand the comp bringing in Brisbane 2 and NZ2 or Adelaide depending on strength of bid

The benefits are enormous to relocated teams- Access to great stadia, a monopoly on a city for sponsorship, 40 mill in guaranteed revenue and a tangible connection to your historical fan base.

The benefits to the game are enormous- truly national scope, clear the Sydney logjam, total control over the draw, presence in every major city, interaction with the bush, massive increase in crowds and sponsorship.

The major drawback is the cost- but you have to speculate to accumulate and The AFL have shown that you can’t have a major national competition without throwing serious dollars at it.

I honestly believe Wests Tigers fans have already done their part for rationalisation of the Sydney teams. Wests Tigers fans have already given up their team to make more room in Sydney, they formed a joint venture and you now after 18 years want them to move to the other side of the country?

 

[greenBV4]

Worked so well last time lol

and yet most (maybe even all) kids growing up now wouldn't even know any different. The NRL has to start making decision for the long term of the game.

I honestly believe Wests Tigers fans have already done their part for rationalisation of the Sydney teams. Wests Tigers fans have already given up their team to make more room in Sydney, they formed a joint venture and you now after 18 years want them to move to the other side of the country?

I agree, tigers have already done their part, although their name is confusing for anyone outside of Sydney who is new to the game
I made my mates from down here watch the tigers game last week on a surf trip, they'd never watched NRL before, only Origin, one of them said to me "I thought the NRL didn't have a team in Perth"
(To be fair though they have the western bulldogs so it isn't any different)

 

[unforgiven]

and yet most (maybe even all) kids growing up now wouldn't even know any different. The NRL has to start making decision for the long term of the game.


I agree, tigers have already done their part, although their name is confusing for anyone outside of Sydney who is new to the game
I made my mates from down here watch the tigers game last week on a surf trip, they'd never watched NRL before, only Origin, one of them said to me "I thought the NRL didn't have a team in Perth"
(To be fair though they have the western bulldogs so it isn't any different)

Just because the kids don't know the difference doesn't mean there isn't any. I'm sure the children of former Norths supporters who now support other sports because their parents stopped actively supporting Rugby League don't know the difference but they are still lost to the game.

Not knowing about something doesn't make it not exist.

 

[Raiderdave]

No you've got a whole city to yourself,and an all seater stadium.Ypur crowds should be closer to 20.000 regularly.Especuialy


Chop 4 Sydney sides, and watch the Tv contract drop substantially.And watch the drift of fans who lose their clubs to either other code, or other activities, with no further interest in the NRL.
The $100m for NZ is over 5 years, thats less than the Gnats TV monetary influence.

Canberra rates poorly on Sydney TV.Sydney the biggest commercial market in this country.I'd hardly be throwing rocks from the glass house.

Your crowds should be 20,000 with an all seater stadium FFS.In fact just about all clubs should have a minimum 15,000 average (bare minimum that is).

again
you're comparing a side that has struggled for success for 20 years in the toughest of winter conditions
we have a .... small .. city & we don't have to it ourselves at all numb nutz , to 2 Sydney sides in a city of 5 million sitting near the top of the ladder in near perfect conditions on a Sunday.
so again for the slow witted
if WE had hosted an all top 4 game on a glorious winters afternoon like yesterday our venue sells out without a shadow of a doubt
same as the Gold Coast
Wollongong
Newcastle
Auckland
Townsville
Brisbane & probably Melbourne too

but in Sydney ?
nup , couldn't even half fill Allianz .. it appears you can't get those pathetic lazy entitled sods off their asses for anything
this .. oh oh oh , but Sydney is the biggest market means little
the .. no one turning ups ... can easily be replaced

 

[Raiderdave]

Already? its been 24 years and Warriors games only have about 130000 people watching on Tv in New Zealand and rate below the Sydney teams in Australia. We are in a crowd thread so lets look at that, nope they finished last in home and away crowds last year. They were also the 2nd lowest drawing away team so saying they are outdrawing nearly every Sydney team is rubbish.

Sydney has the largest number of people attending Rugby League games in the world, yes it has many more games but you wipe out these teams then you wipe out a huge number of the games supporters.

yet twice as many warriors fans turn up to watch their team on the gold coast then dragons fans in Sydney
again , they .. crap .. on most Sydney teams for away support in most markets outside of Sydney after 24 years then Sydney sides do after 100 years

 

[Raiderdave]

warriors fans around the country as away fans

10K in Brisbane
20K in Perth
7.5K at the SFS in Sydney earlier in the year
7.5K on the gold coast
10K in Melbourne

Manly or the Roosters , Sharks , the panthers , wouldn't get 1/5th of those numbers

more of this please
less pathetic sydneysider support of the NRL

 

[Hoofhearted]

Just because the kids don't know the difference doesn't mean there isn't any. I'm sure the children of former Norths supporters who now support other sports because their parents stopped actively supporting Rugby League don't know the difference but they are still lost to the game.

Not knowing about something doesn't make it not exist.

As a Tigers supporter I have sat on both sides of the fence. When Balmain was merged my whole family was devastated and vowed to never watch the game again, time heals wounds and we are all Wests Tigers supporters nowadays (2005 helped). My children don't even know what Balmain is, other friends that were Balmain supporters went to other clubs, my best mate is now a passionate Knights fan. Different scenario with Norths I know as they are gone altogether, but if you really love the game you will move on.
As far as losing supporters to the game, I also agree. Lots of fans would of been lost to the sport when Norths were kicked out and I do feel sorry for them. But if you are looking at the bigger picture, Norths were averaging 9k their last year and 11k the year before when they finished 5th, Storm came in around the same time and now average 19k with over 20k members in a brand new market.

Relocating or removing teams will definitely lose some supporters to the game, but it will also attract much more new supporters to the game than those lost if done correctly. We keep saying that these people will be lost to AFL, the only reason this is possible is because the AFL relocated teams in order to attract new supporters. South Melbourne were in the same predicament as Manly, now they average over 30k in Sydney and still have a large membership in Melbourne.

 

[Raiderdave]

Considering how fast Sydney is growing there is no way the NRL would want to remove teams now. Over the next 20 years it's going to go from like 5 million people up to as many as 8 million people. Doesn't seem like the best time to remove teams.

It's also a pointless discussion because the NRL simply won't go there.

I also don't believe it's the reason for Sydneys poor crowds. The AFL have shown that you can have that many teams in one city and still have fantastic crowds.

There are dozens of other problems which plague Sydney crowds which need to be addressed.

so a city that's impossible to move around in now with 5 million people , should retain its teams because its going to get harder to move around in Sydney with 8 million in 20 years time ?

Id of thought the exact opposite is in order
move them now & avoid the inevitable worsening of the current problem

 

[unforgiven]

As a Tigers supporter I have sat on both sides of the fence. When Balmain was merged my whole family was devastated and vowed to never watch the game again, time heals wounds and we are all Wests Tigers supporters nowadays (2005 helped). My children don't even know what Balmain is, other friends that were Balmain supporters went to other clubs, my best mate is now a passionate Knights fan. Different scenario with Norths I know as they are gone altogether, but if you really love the game you will move on.
As far as losing supporters to the game, I also agree. Lots of fans would of been lost to the sport when Norths were kicked out and I do feel sorry for them. But if you are looking at the bigger picture, Norths were averaging 9k their last year and 11k the year before when they finished 5th, Storm came in around the same time and now average 19k with over 20k members in a brand new market.

Relocating or removing teams will definitely lose some supporters to the game, but it will also attract much more new supporters to the game than those lost if done correctly. We keep saying that these people will be lost to AFL, the only reason this is possible is because the AFL relocated teams in order to attract new supporters. South Melbourne were in the same predicament as Manly, now they average over 30k in Sydney and still have a large membership in Melbourne.

So you are happy if the Wests Tigers are no longer in the competition?

 

[greenBV4]

warriors fans around the country as away fans

10K in Brisbane
20K in Perth
7.5K at the SFS in Sydney earlier in the year
7.5K on the gold coast
10K in Melbourne

add a second NZ team and these same kiwis will probably turn up to to those games too

the home crowds a second NZ team might not be anything overly great in Wellington or Christchurch, but add in the away support those passionate supporters bring and its definitely worth it

but no, we need Manly playing in front of under 10k at a glorified dog park
and a the NRL seems unwilling to expand to 18 teams, so we will probably never have it

 

[greenBV4]

So you are happy if the Wests Tigers are no longer in the competition?

I'd say Tigers are safe considering they have already merged and done their part (unless they go broke then its the clubs own fault)
Dragons are in the same boat unless they want to commit to a full time move to Wollongong and represent the whole south coast

 

[taipan]

again
you're comparing a side that has struggled for success for 20 years in the toughest of winter conditions
we have a .... small .. city & we don't have to it ourselves at all numb nutz , to 2 Sydney sides in a city of 5 million sitting near the top of the ladder in near perfect conditions on a Sunday.
so again for the slow witted
if WE had hosted an all top 4 game on a glorious winters afternoon like yesterday our venue sells out without a shadow of a doubt
same as the Gold Coast
Wollongong
Newcastle
Auckland
Townsville
Brisbane & probably Melbourne too

but in Sydney ?
nup , couldn't even half fill Allianz .. it appears you can't get those pathetic lazy entitled sods off their asses for anything
this .. oh oh oh , but Sydney is the biggest market means little
the .. no one turning ups ... can easily be replaced

No ,I'm comparing a side, that has been established in the ACT region for 35+ years.A side that had the likes of Meaning,Stuart,Daley,Clyde etc, to establish a firm base of support.

You have an all seater stadium.OK not much under cover, but the likes of Manly would kill for it.

From what I gather.The SFS yesterday was basically all but a few were Rooster's fans.I'm not apologising for Dragon's fans for not attending, all I'm suggesting is now because of traffic issues away fans are only attending home games, as Penrith has shown.
And the crappy oval ANZ is hosting clubs such as Dogs and Eels,who have been tail enders all season.

I'm also suggesting once Parramatta stadium is built and provided Eels gets its act together crowds will pick up.Throw in the Tigers playing there also.
Once ANZ has been reconfigured and decent scheduling involved, they too will improve their crowds.

Sydney is the biggest commercial market, with the biggest NRL TV audiences, regardless of poor crowds means a hell of a lot in TV contracts.No eyeballs, no money.

 

[Hoofhearted]

So you are happy if the Wests Tigers are no longer in the competition?

Who would be happy if there team was gone, but i'd still watch the sport I love.
As stated elsewhere, we have already done our bit so I cant see why the Tigers would be in the firing line. But lets just go with a worst case scenario, the Tigers go broke and are removed from the comp. I'd be devastated, and would probably take a while to get over it (I think it was around 2004 before I started to watch the Wests Tigers). Over time I will realize that its a sport in the end, I cant stand Soccer, AFL or Rugby so I may as well move on and find another team to support. Now for me personally that would be probably easier than most as I live in WA, and chances are we will have a team at this stage.