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2018 Trials

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
Hence the reason, if you read my post correctly, I stated it’s time for Gus/the board reassess the situation and set new goals (right people on the bus and all that jazz).

Not directing this next bit at you but fans are generally very impatient - they want a premiership and the want it yesterday.

Gus and the board with the aim big (win a prem), start small (they would have been content finishing 8th) 5 year plan rubbish was a marketing ploy to get some decent players in without paying ridiculous overs, and create some excitement with fans and it worked and we have seen some success. But there’s been a few blips on the radar and that includes 2014. I consider that a blip, we had no right to go that far that season.

He’s had to back peddle and claim he never said that.

I think the first step of making us consistently top 8 has been achieved 3/4 years and past 2 on the trot. What they set next for this season whether it be top 4-6 teams (realistic) or a GF appearance/win (might be a step too far in my eyes). Only they know the goals they have set for this season.

Gus never actually said that. The quote was along the lines of: "it will take half a decade to get the club in order"

Paul Kent gave an explanation last year on NRL 360 and you could see he hated it.
 
Messages
21,880
Hence the reason, if you read my post correctly, I stated it’s time for Gus/the board reassess the situation and set new goals (right people on the bus and all that jazz).

Not directing this next bit at you but fans are generally very impatient - they want a premiership and the want it yesterday.

Gus and the board with the aim big (win a prem), start small (they would have been content finishing 8th) 5 year plan rubbish was a marketing ploy to get some decent players in without paying ridiculous overs, and create some excitement with fans and it worked and we have seen some success. But there’s been a few blips on the radar and that includes 2014. I consider that a blip, we had no right to go that far that season.

He’s had to back peddle and claim he never said that.

I think the first step of making us consistently top 8 has been achieved 3/4 years and past 2 on the trot. What they set next for this season whether it be top 4-6 teams (realistic) or a GF appearance/win (might be a step too far in my eyes). Only they know the goals they have set for this season.


And I think that’s what many of us are saying, we don’t have the right people, at least in the off field department.
 
Messages
21,880
This is my thinking too. The board knows their expectations. I would say the players and coach do too.
If these are met and exceeded the coach stays if not they will make a change. The next coach will have a minimum of top 4 instead of top 8. It is like a step hopefully the days of missing the 8 are over

It’s not that simple.

There’s many egos involved, and sacking people means swallowing a lot of pride. Especially sacking a coach who was brought in to replace someone who was given the flick unexpectedly.



It’d be great if the board & Gus were so clinical in their thinking as you suggest, but it doesn’t work like that all of the time.
 
Messages
21,880
Phil Gould is one of the smartest people in the game.

He also happens to have one of the biggest egos in the game.

If you think a guy like Gus doesn’t make decisions with his own public perception in mind, you’re kidding yourself.


Sacking Griffin or admitting to other problems would be admitting, at least in part, his own failures. People don’t easily do that.
 

Aliceinwonderland

First Grade
Messages
7,901
He is capable of getting rid of someone whose not working out. That CEO we had for a little while. Total disaster. Gould 'hooked' him went it was apparent it was getting very messy.

Yep like many who are 'gifted' or clever they have egos to match. Gus is no different.

I believe if things look like getting very messy he'll pull the plug and 'hook' hook.

I think he'll be given 10 weeks unless the beginning of the season is at total disaster.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,334
What pisses me off most is Gus has spent 7 years rebuilding and we arent any closer to a premiership today than we were 3 seasons ago. We built slowly and steadily only for any progress we made to be stopped in 2014 basically.

Create whatever excuse you want. But in 2011 we brought Gus in and the closest we have been to a premiership in 6 seasons was 2014. 3 full seasons since and somehow fringe top 8 is supposed to be acceptable? Bullshit

Gus did all the right things with the lower grades. With the facilities. His recruitment up until Trent Merrin was pretty f**king good. But since the moment he sacked Cleary and hired Hook the club has stopped building toward anything. Shits just happening and we're just reacting.

Sacking Cleary for a coach who cant win against the top teams was a mistake. You dont sack someone unless you're replacing them with someone better. Cleary was more likely to lead us to a premiership than Hook. Id say Cleary was a 10% chance vs Hook at 1%... and thats based on miracles happening.

Sacking Ivan would be fine if we didnt go for a proven mediocre coach. We should have either gone for an established supercoach. Or given a potential supercoach a chance (Brennan).

Tigers wanted Hook before signing Jason Taylor. He was all but signed. They met him for the job interview and were so unimpressed by him he lost a job that was basically guaranteed and instead went with Jason Taylor. Meanwhile we give him the job without so much as an interview.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
What pisses me off most is Gus has spent 7 years rebuilding and we arent any closer to a premiership today than we were 3 seasons ago. We built slowly and steadily only for any progress we made to be stopped in 2014 basically.

Create whatever excuse you want. But in 2011 we brought Gus in and the closest we have been to a premiership in 6 seasons was 2014. 3 full seasons since and somehow fringe top 8 is supposed to be acceptable? Bullshit

Gus did all the right things with the lower grades. With the facilities. His recruitment up until Trent Merrin was pretty f**king good. But since the moment he sacked Cleary and hired Hook the club has stopped building toward anything. Shits just happening and we're just reacting.

Sacking Cleary for a coach who cant win against the top teams was a mistake. You dont sack someone unless you're replacing them with someone better. Cleary was more likely to lead us to a premiership than Hook. Id say Cleary was a 10% chance vs Hook at 1%... and thats based on miracles happening.

Sacking Ivan would be fine if we didnt go for a proven mediocre coach. We should have either gone for an established supercoach. Or given a potential supercoach a chance (Brennan).

Tigers wanted Hook before signing Jason Taylor. He was all but signed. They met him for the job interview and were so unimpressed by him he lost a job that was basically guaranteed and instead went with Jason Taylor. Meanwhile we give him the job without so much as an interview.

Very well said. All the pieces were in place after 2014, young talent coming out of our ears and enough senior players also. 2015 was an abysmal injury season and we panic and fire Ivan who is still vastly more proven coach than Hook. Hooks fans here talking about him getting into the 8 twice, well Ivan took the basketcase warriors to the top 8 something like 6 out of 8 years and one of those missed years was the season Sonny Fai died the other was his first season, no other coach can get those muppets running in the same direction for longer than half a season and he did it for 6 years. Sacking Ivan for hook was a massive downgrade and it is typical of the rushed decisions that have been made around the club since. Since when does a 6th then 7th finish earn you a contract extension? we literally rewarded hook for being mediocre, that is purely Gus looking after his ego and is mate Beavis. Like Gus was proudly announcing we didn't even consider any other coaches before hiring Griffin as if that is a good way to run a club, that fat head must of been so confident 2016 and 2017 would be good years otherwise you wouldn't advertise the fact we didn't do our due diligence.
 
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Messages
21,880
He is capable of getting rid of someone whose not working out. That CEO we had for a little while. Total disaster. Gould 'hooked' him went it was apparent it was getting very messy.

Yep like many who are 'gifted' or clever they have egos to match. Gus is no different.

I believe if things look like getting very messy he'll pull the plug and 'hook' hook.

I think he'll be given 10 weeks unless the beginning of the season is at total disaster.

He’s capable of it for sure, but when you’ve sacked a coach & a CEO already, people start to ask questions about who’s doing the hiring.

Sacking a 3rd major person in the organisation in 3 years, lots of questions start to be asked.


Plus it’s important to look at how he sacks people. He moved Corey Payne out the door, but he did it as quietly as possible. That wasn’t just to save the clubs face.

When he sacked Cleary he had the replacement lined up & ready to go. So rather than endless speculation about what went wrong, you immediately move the conversation.

He’s a smart operator. But it’d be a mistake to think his image isn’t at the front of his mind.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,334
Cleary missed his first season due to the previous management breaching the cap and them starting on -4 points.

The other as you mentioned was the Sonny Fai year. We know first hand what the death of a player can do to a club.

With us his first 2 years were rebuilding and being stuck with whatever rejects Gus could sign to fill our top 25 while developing young guys and finding the right guys to buy. Our roster was largely Kniggts rejects.

His only truly bad year in his coaching career was 2015. Every other year he has either reached or exceeded realistic expectations. 2015 hes the coach of the year with us in week 3 of finals. 12 months later he's sacked.
 

Frankus

Juniors
Messages
2,348
It’s not that simple.

There’s many egos involved, and sacking people means swallowing a lot of pride. Especially sacking a coach who was brought in to replace someone who was given the flick unexpectedly.



It’d be great if the board & Gus were so clinical in their thinking as you suggest, but it doesn’t work like that all of the time.

That’s why there is a CEO to oversee Gus amongst other things and the BoD should have the ultimate say on the CEO and major decisions. If they are not the right people, then clean house and start again.

If you are a member, you could always stand for election to the board.
 
Messages
21,880
That’s why there is a CEO to oversee Gus amongst other things and the BoD should have the ultimate say on the CEO and major decisions. If they are not the right people, then clean house and start again.

If you are a member, you could always stand for election to the board.

I really doubt Gus is being overseen by the CEO. The board, sure. But not the CEO.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
That’s why there is a CEO to oversee Gus amongst other things and the BoD should have the ultimate say on the CEO and major decisions. If they are not the right people, then clean house and start again.

If you are a member, you could always stand for election to the board.

I trust the board. I don't trust Gus nor the coach get us where we need too. Board we members elect can always make your feelings clear
 
Messages
21,880
I trust the board. I don't trust Gus nor the coach get us where we need too. Board we members elect can always make your feelings clear

Doesn’t feel like panthers members ever change the board much.

Haven’t looked at it, just the impression I get.

Other clubs fans seem more involved on that front.
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,995
What pisses me off most is Gus has spent 7 years rebuilding and we arent any closer to a premiership today than we were 3 seasons ago. We built slowly and steadily only for any progress we made to be stopped in 2014 basically.

Create whatever excuse you want. But in 2011 we brought Gus in and the closest we have been to a premiership in 6 seasons was 2014. 3 full seasons since and somehow fringe top 8 is supposed to be acceptable? Bullshit

Gus did all the right things with the lower grades. With the facilities. His recruitment up until Trent Merrin was pretty f**king good. But since the moment he sacked Cleary and hired Hook the club has stopped building toward anything. Shits just happening and we're just reacting.
I agree the hiring process was unprofessional. I'm not sure if we did it differently if we would have got a different result. The coaches available are all you can deal with and the good ones already had jobs.

As too your point about success, I would agree if the only criteria for success was to win a premiership. Since 2000 the most premierships won by a club is two. This has been done by Manly, Melbourne, Brisbane and the Roosters. Melbourne would have won four but were stripped of their premierships. So 17 titles on offer, and four clubs win twice. Four clubs, Titans, Parra, Warriors and Raiders win nothing. That makes us the equal with best club, or does it?

Isn't success also measured by how often a club makes the semi finals, how much sponsorship it attracts,
and how many members they can get. Because without that the club isn't sustainable. History shows the clubs who'd do that are the ones winning premierships every so often.

Isn't that where we are? More members, more sponsors, semis two years in a row? If we make the semi's three years in a row that is the first time since 91.

I understand people want success but a premiership isn't won by building a team in a couple of years. It takes time and an organisation that's built to sustain excellence. If we can continue to deliver championship winning junior teams and signing the odd big name, we have a fighting chance. People want Gus sacked, Hook sacked, the Board sacked. It's not perfect but it is so much better than it ever was.

That said, we don't accept mediocrity either. Once you get a club to be continually competitive then the expectations are raised. The Roosters sack coaches, the Dogs sack coaches when they don't deliver a competitive team even if they make the semi's. I think Hook will be gotten rid of if we don't look like making the semis this year and at least being competitive. That's how it should be.

Gus has sacked two coaches and a CEO in his time here. I don't have the slightest doubt that Hook will be gone if we aren't looking competitive early in the season. Timing will be the only issue.
 

Aliceinwonderland

First Grade
Messages
7,901
I agree the hiring process was unprofessional. I'm not sure if we did it differently if we would have got a different result. The coaches available are all you can deal with and the good ones already had jobs.

As too your point about success, I would agree if the only criteria for success was to win a premiership. Since 2000 the most premierships won by a club is two. This has been done by Manly, Melbourne, Brisbane and the Roosters. Melbourne would have won four but were stripped of their premierships. So 17 titles on offer, and four clubs win twice. Four clubs, Titans, Parra, Warriors and Raiders win nothing. That makes us the equal with best club, or does it?

Isn't success also measured by how often a club makes the semi finals, how much sponsorship it attracts,
and how many members they can get. Because without that the club isn't sustainable. History shows the clubs who'd do that are the ones winning premierships every so often.

Isn't that where we are? More members, more sponsors, semis two years in a row? If we make the semi's three years in a row that is the first time since 91.

I understand people want success but a premiership isn't won by building a team in a couple of years. It takes time and an organisation that's built to sustain excellence. If we can continue to deliver championship winning junior teams and signing the odd big name, we have a fighting chance. People want Gus sacked, Hook sacked, the Board sacked. It's not perfect but it is so much better than it ever was.

That said, we don't accept mediocrity either. Once you get a club to be continually competitive then the expectations are raised. The Roosters sack coaches, the Dogs sack coaches when they don't deliver a competitive team even if they make the semi's. I think Hook will be gotten rid of if we don't look like making the semis this year and at least being competitive. That's how it should be.

Gus has sacked two coaches and a CEO in his time here. I don't have the slightest doubt that Hook will be gone if we aren't looking competitive early in the season. Timing will be the only issue.


Totally agree well said. The club is perhaps better positioned since the early 90s. I know that won't sit well with many, but it's the truth.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Totally agree well said. The club is perhaps better positioned since the early 90s. I know that won't sit well with many, but it's the truth.

Everyone can see that, its been said a hundred times the last month. The problem a lot of us have is that the on field results aren't reflecting this and some of us have no faith in the coach that we just extended to improve these results.
 

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