2020 season

[franklin2323]

Daz posted some stats that showed Cleary had 50% more possession in the final 20m. That says he was the focus, not Maloney.

Where did we struggle to score points from? In the final 20.

People don’t want to put 2 & 2 together. There’s a fair chance our attack gets even worse next year.

That matches Fox Sports stats which has both averaging similar possessions. The concern for me is from set moves it is short ball to backrower or a grubber which often is dived on by the opposition.

I can't remember him kicking to the corners. 0 40/20's this year. 1 last year is the closest stat I can find for it.

These things are concerning going forward

 

[herbert henry1908]

Half those possessions could be cleary passing to a prop for hitup it doesn't show anything, 7s handle the ball more doing the organising in the early plays, Maloney would of got the ball from cleary a lot as well..

I don’t see how it can be argued that Maloney was the focus in attack when he got so much less ball in the key attacking area of the field, yet in the overall stats their possessions per game are quite similar.

To me that says it was a deliberate play to get more of the ball to Cleary in the final 20.

Possessions per game

Cleary - 56

Maloney - 49

possessions per game in the final 20

Cleary - 16.6

Maloney - 10.5


So in general Cleary’s possession stats are only 14% higher, but in the final 20m they’re 60% higher.

 

[ACTPanthers]

I fail to see how the possessions statistic shows Cleary being dominant... Maloney could’ve been dominant without the ball. Dominance and touches aren’t mutually exclusive.

 

[OldPanther]

I don’t see how it can be argued that Maloney was the focus in attack when he got so much less ball in the key attacking area of the field, yet in the overall stats their possessions per game are quite similar.

To me that says it was a deliberate play to get more of the ball to Cleary in the final 20.

Possessions per game

Cleary - 56

Maloney - 49

possessions per game in the final 20

Cleary - 16.6

Maloney - 10.5


So in general Cleary’s possession stats are only 14% higher, but in the final 20m they’re 60% higher.

This stat is the main thing I've argued against when I'm talking about him being submissive to Maloney.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I fail to see how the possessions statistic shows Cleary being dominant... Maloney could’ve been dominant without the ball. Dominance and touches aren’t mutually exclusive.

I wasn’t using the stats just then to say that. I was responding to the claim Maloney was the focus of our attack. Pretty hard to be the focus with less ball in the attacking part of the field.

 

[herbert henry1908]

This stat is the main thing I've argued against when I'm talking about him being submissive to Maloney.

I understand your previous argument (but disagree with it) , but I’m talking about the claim Maloney was the focus of our attack. The stats don’t show that.

Perhaps he’s seen as the focus because he got more try assists, but I see that as just being better in attack, not the focus.

 

[Kev07]

Creating tries or linebreak assists just isn't Clearys game,like others have suggested he is more suited to 6 with his running game.
Even in lower grades he wasnt creating tries. There 2015 Under 20s Premiership season it was May who led that side in Try assists,Linebreak assists aswell as topping the tackles made while having played 6 different positions during the year.
Cleary only played 1 reserve grade game before his Nrl debut.

 

[OldPanther]

I understand your previous argument (but disagree with it) , but I’m talking about the claim Maloney was the focus of our attack. The stats don’t show that.

Perhaps he’s seen as the focus because he got more try assists, but I see that as just being better in attack, not the focus.

Ah fair enough.

 

[Kev07]

https://www.nswrl.com.au/news/2017/04/29/2014-sg-ball-grand-final--panthers-v-roosters/

Cleary playing 6 looks great

 

[OldPanther]

https://www.nswrl.com.au/news/2017/04/29/2014-sg-ball-grand-final--panthers-v-roosters/

Cleary playing 6 looks great

First 2 try involvement in 10 minutes are kicks from first receiver lol.

 

[Kev07]

First 2 try involvement in 10 minutes are kicks from first receiver lol.

If only Edwards could pass like May

 

[OldPanther]

If only Edwards could pass like May

That was a pretty sweet cut out pass.

 

[The Realist]

May was the most talented junior coming through back then. Looked very good in his 1st (Partial) season, then hit by a bad injury. Came back overweight and significantly slower then literally screwed his career away.

I hope he beats the charges and comes back a better player.

 

[betcats]

I fail to see how the possessions statistic shows Cleary being dominant... Maloney could’ve been dominant without the ball. Dominance and touches aren’t mutually exclusive.

Using raw cherry picked numbers with little to no context to jump to conclusions, what could go wrong!

 

[betcats]

I don’t see how it can be argued that Maloney was the focus in attack when he got so much less ball in the key attacking area of the field, yet in the overall stats their possessions per game are quite similar.

To me that says it was a deliberate play to get more of the ball to Cleary in the final 20.

Possessions per game

Cleary - 56

Maloney - 49

possessions per game in the final 20

Cleary - 16.6

Maloney - 10.5


So in general Cleary’s possession stats are only 14% higher, but in the final 20m they’re 60% higher.

Did you watch us play this year? I don’t need stats to tell me who was getting most of the good attacking plays for most of the season. These numbers don’t tell what type of touches they were getting in the twenty.

 

[franklin2323]

Did you watch us play this year? I don’t need stats to tell me who was getting most of the good attacking plays for most of the season. These numbers don’t tell what type of touches they were getting in the twenty.

Inside the 20 is one out to the forwards. A grubber that hopefully gets through. That is it from both halves so what will change?

 

[OldPanther]

Inside the 20 is one out to the forwards. A grubber that hopefully gets through. That is it from both halves so what will change?

Interesting that it's conveniently lack of attack coaching when required for an argument and the halves fault at other times.

 

[betcats]

Inside the 20 is one out to the forwards. A grubber that hopefully gets through. That is it from both halves so what will change?

Nothing will change. We will play the exact same way obviously. New attacking coach, new five eighth aand new hooker but everything will stay the same.

 

[mxlegend99]

Interesting that it's conveniently lack of attack coaching when required for an argument and the halves fault at other times.

It was always our attacking structures.

People argued it was the playmakers and thought trading Moylan for Maloney would change our success in the opposition 20... and perhaps it did. It probably got worse.

If we have no one running good lines, no plays that create overlaps or can get the right guys one on one with their opponents its extremely difficult to be putting guys through the line.

Thats not to say there werent occassions these guys could have made better decisions. But our halves have been handicapped by ordinary hookers and the worst attacking structure in the competition.

We improved once we got a couple of guys who could turn kicks into points in Naden and To'o. But outside of brute force from Kikau we couldnt rely on anyone getting through the line.

 

[OldPanther]

Nothing will change. We will play the exact same way obviously. New attacking coach, new five eighth aand new hooker but everything will stay the same.

It was always our attacking structures.

People argued it was the playmakers and thought trading Moylan for Maloney would change our success in the opposition 20... and perhaps it did. It probably got worse.

If we have no one running good lines, no plays that create overlaps or can get the right guys one on one with their opponents its extremely difficult to be putting guys through the line.

Thats not to say there werent occassions these guys could have made better decisions. But our halves have been handicapped by ordinary hookers and the worst attacking structure in the competition.

We improved once we got a couple of guys who could turn kicks into points in Naden and To'o. But outside of brute force from Kikau we couldnt rely on anyone getting through the line.

This is where I always thought we went wrong most of all. Herbert has even quoted Ivan's stats to show he isn't a good attacking coach.