2021 Rabbitohs Rumours, Signings And News

[Jim Rockford]

It isn't about casting aside the old toy for the new toy, it's about offering terms that can help keep both and benefit the club long term.

There are currently 9 of 480 contracted players in the NRL 33+ at the start of the season, the same age that Cody will be at the beginning of the season of his next contract. 7 that started the season at 34+ and only one over 35. He is getting to an age that there is no long term guarantee of his future and the number of similarly aged players support this. He'll be on pretty good coin and should he decide to retire after the first year, the club will have $600k or so on the cap that can't be spent. 1 year deals avoid this and he can always sign another should he wish to continue and he continues to perform at a NRL level.

I truly get where you are coming from but I still feel that certain players have earned the right to expect the club to take that risk on them. Cody is definitely one of those players.

 

[handyman2190]

It isn't about casting aside the old toy for the new toy, it's about offering terms that can help keep both and benefit the club long term.

There are currently 9 of 480 contracted players in the NRL 33+ at the start of the season, the same age that Cody will be at the beginning of the season of his next contract. 7 that started the season at 34+ and only one over 35. He is getting to an age that there is no long term guarantee of his future and the number of similarly aged players support this. He'll be on pretty good coin and should he decide to retire after the first year, the club will have $600k or so on the cap that can't be spent. 1 year deals avoid this and he can always sign another should he wish to continue and he continues to perform at a NRL level.

I think, the thinking of the 29plus players is to avoid the inevitable lowering of their pay, if gagai accepts 500k for 1 year, the next year may be 400k since he is older few if any other teams would offer a 31year old more money and more years,the next year at 32 he may be offered 300k.
Signing for 500k for 2 or 3 years stops this, and thats why he will go.

 

[BotanyBorn&Bred]

Lay off brah. I agree with your opinions of Sua but there's no need to be targetting Handy like this.

What's that?
He's the one posting for months all this stuff about Reynolds, bagging him, that's he's greedy and showed no loyalty etc etc.
Its been explained to him numerous times, not only by me but other posters, an alternative position, one about looking after his future, in the face of injuries etc.

If one is going to post repeatedly a position, one that is obviously not going to be popular with fans of Adam, fans of being a local, fans of the club, than it should be expected that position is going to be critiqued, especially when that poster keeps bring up the issue with comments like, "I know I'm right"

You don't need to be his bodyguard. And this is not about "winning", it's about talking sense.

Have you seen on the other team's boards the things that get said by posters to each other? The name calling, abuse, swearing over the smallest disagreements? None of that is going on here.

If I say something, and its either wrong, not factual, dreamworld stuff, I expect to be picked up on it. And you do know how I respond when I'm picked up on it.

 

[Travitoh]

I truly get where you are coming from but I still feel that certain players have earned the right to expect the club to take that risk on them. Cody is definitely one of those players.

The only players that i believe have earnt that right is Adam Reynolds, being a premiership player and captain and AJ when he enters his latter years.

Guys like Cody, Cook and Gagai have been good players for Souths but that's as far as I'd go. If they win a comp I'll soften to the idea but it's a cut-throat industry and they are handsomely compensated as a result.

We're South Sydney. We don't deal in being good. We deal in being great and winning premierships.

 

[BotanyBorn&Bred]

And if we keep forcing players out we'll have a hell of a time trying to attract anyone decent to sign with us.

This should be an obvious eventuality. We don't wanna be like the Tigers and Bulldogs are right now, and have been for quite a while.

The Bulldogs called themselves the "family club". How many players believe this rubbish?

 

[Travitoh]

I think, the thinking of the 29plus players is to avoid the inevitable lowering of their pay, if gagai accepts 500k for 1 year, the next year may be 400k since he is older few if any other teams would offer a 31year old more money and more years,the next year at 32 he may be offered 300k.
Signing for 500k for 2 or 3 years stops this, and thats why he will go.

It very much is the reasoning behind it. They know that they are more likely to decline than progress so want to lock themselves in for as long as possible. From the clubs point of view, it's in their best interest to get value for money and the third year at $500k isn't value. Especially in a salary cap world.

 

[handyman2190]

What's that?
He's the one posting for months all this stuff about Reynolds, bagging him, that's he's greedy and showed no loyalty etc etc.
Its been explained to him numerous times, not only by me but other posters, an alternative position, one about looking after his future, in the face of injuries etc.

If one is going to post repeatedly a position, one that is obviously not going to be popular with fans of Adam, fans of being a local, fans of the club, than it should be expected that position is going to be critiqued, especially when that poster keeps bring up the issue with comments like, "I know I'm right"

You don't need to be his bodyguard. And this is not about "winning", it's about talking sense.

Have you seen on the other team's boards the things that get said by posters to each other? The name calling, abuse, swearing over the smallest disagreements? None of that is going on here.

If I say something, and its either wrong, not factual, dreamworld stuff, I expect to be picked up on it. And you do know how I respond when I'm picked up on it.

Show me were i said i know im right. I have my opinion,just like you do, i stick by it. I love this club its unfortunate AR loves the money and Didnt show the same loyalty sutto did, if you read my last post about gagai, thats the situation AR avoided,players like thiaday,parker and many others stuck by their clubs on yearly lowering pays to stay one club players,yes i bagged AR but i loved him, he just thought with his pocket rather than his heart. You just choose to misquote me and rubbish my view on the situation. Then the fact thative said many times we miss richos negotiating and need a replacment.
AR didnt want to lose money so he let us, whove supported him for all his years , down, no two ways about it, his last contract was a 3m 4 year deal more than i make in a lifetime of normal work,so if he hasnt looked after his family by now whats he done? This is cream for him and he would have got close to it sticking around

 

[Jim Rockford]

We're South Sydney. We don't deal in being good. We deal in being great and winning premierships.

I would hope we also deal in looking after those who have been loyal servants of the club. I don't want to be one of those clubs that uses up a player and then casually tosses them aside. We're much,much better than that (or so I thought).

 

[BotanyBorn&Bred]

@Jim & @ Trav

Both make good points, but each individual player in question needs to be considered differently, not just a blanket position of "we don't offer contracts to over 30s for longer than one year"

With Adam, I think he deserved to be given what he was asking for as a minimum - 2 more years. If he is such a risk of breaking down, and not delivering, why did he garner interest from 3 other clubs prepared to give him his minimum ask? One club signed him for more than his minimum ask - good luck to him.

With Gagai, his experience, his position, and relative health, combined with the chemistry he has been building with that whole left side, you have to consider, is a 2 year deal really gonna be such a risk to the club? Particularly when there is no real obvious replacement currently within the ranks.

With Cody, one could argue (and Greg Alexander and Braith Anasta, and Mick Ennis have done exactly that) that Cody is the one behind the play, the potency, the threat of the whole Souths attack, and is the most key player to almost all of that being unlocked. He started 1st grade relatively late (26), hasn't gone through the physicality that someone like Adam has endured, and with Cody, it's not so much his speed is the key, it's his vision, guile, and ball playing ability that is keys to that play. That just doesn't drop off a cliff just because he is 31, or 32, or even 33. Cronk was still able to do that @ 36.

On Sutton, he had a major decline toward the end of his 5 year contract, and hadn't really been a dominant player for a number of years. This, plus the money he had been on, plus the cap situation with Sam, and GI, Adam etc, meant no way he was going to be offered big or long term deals. At that time, many were hoping he'd just retire. He started taking one year deals, because it's likely no one else would off e r better. To his credit, he completely turned around his impact and form during those one year deals. It's just not comparing apples with apples when talking about Sutto and Reyno contract positions.

 

[BotanyBorn&Bred]

Show me were i said i know im right. I have my opinion,just like you do, i stick by it. I love this club its unfortunate AR loves the money and Didnt show the same loyalty sutto did, if you read my last post about gagai, thats the situation AR avoided,players like thiaday,parker and many others stuck by their clubs on yearly lowering pays to stay one club players,yes i bagged AR but i loved him, he just thought with his pocket rather than his heart. You just choose to misquote me and rubbish my view on the situation. Then the fact thative said many times we miss richos negotiating and need a replacment.
AR didnt want to lose money so he let us, whove supported him for all his years , down, no two ways about it, his last contract was a 3m 4 year deal more than i make in a lifetime of normal work,so if he hasnt looked after his family by now whats he done? This is cream for him and he would have got close to it sticking around

On page 141 of this thread you said:

"Some will get upsett i say this, but its the truth.
He looked after his pocket,his mger helped, and i dont care what others say...."

No it's not the "truth", it's your opinion, one that is not shared by the majority of people on these boards, Souths fans and members, or ex-footballer media commentators, and coaches.

I'm not going to bother replying to the rest of your post. I've already tried explaining it to you, as have other here on this forum.

 

[handyman2190]

@Jim & @ Trav

Both make good points, but each individual player in question needs to be considered differently, not just a blanket position of "we don't offer contracts to over 30s for longer than one year"

With Adam, I think he deserved to be given what he was asking for as a minimum - 2 more years. If he is such a risk of breaking down, and not delivering, why did he garner interest from 3 other clubs prepared to give him his minimum ask? One club signed him for more than his minimum ask - good luck to him.

With Gagai, his experience, his position, and relative health, combined with the chemistry he has been building with that whole left side, you have to consider, is a 2 year deal really gonna be such a risk to the club? Particularly when there is no real obvious replacement currently within the ranks.

With Cody, one could argue (and Greg Alexander and Braith Anasta, and Mick Ennis have done exactly that) that Cody is the one behind the play, the potency, the threat of the whole Souths attack, and is the most key player to almost all of that being unlocked. He started 1st grade relatively late (26), hasn't gone through the physicality that someone like Adam has endured, and with Cody, it's not so much his speed is the key, it's his vision, guile, and ball playing ability that is keys to that play. That just doesn't drop off a cliff just because he is 31, or 32, or even 33. Cronk was still able to do that @ 36.

On Sutton, he had a major decline toward the end of his 5 year contract, and hadn't really been a dominant player for a number of years. This, plus the money he had been on, plus the cap situation with Sam, and GI, Adam etc, meant no way he was going to be offered big or long term deals. At that time, many were hoping he'd just retire. He started taking one year deals, because it's likely no one else would off e r better. To his credit, he completely turned around his impact and form during those one year deals. It's just not comparing apples with apples when talking about Sutto and Reyno contract positions.

Honestly,i think AR deserved 2 years,as a club we have failed,others will see and not come,i dont like it,i blame solly and pappas.
So i gather we have collected back ups in second grade who have won 1 game this year, what are we expecting for next year i wonder, no buying or recruiting of any players? Marking time while player transfers hit full speed and clubs strengthen up and we get weaker

 

[handyman2190]

On page 141 of this thread you said:

"Some will get upsett i say this, but its the truth.
He looked after his pocket,his mger helped, and i dont care what others say...."

No it's not the "truth", it's your opinion, one that is not shared by the majority of people on these boards, Souths fans and members, or ex-footballer media commentators, and coaches.

I'm not going to bother replying to the rest of your post. I've already tried explaining it to you, as have other here on this forum.

He did look after his pocket,it is the truth,its not a lie, so you get upsett at the truth? Your entitled to your opinion but if he didnt leave because he was greedy looking after his pocket,why did he leave? Fill us in

 

[Jim Rockford]

@Jim & @ Trav

Both make good points, but each individual player in question needs to be considered differently, not just a blanket position of "we don't offer contracts to over 30s for longer than one year"

With Adam, I think he deserved to be given what he was asking for as a minimum - 2 more years. If he is such a risk of breaking down, and not delivering, why did he garner interest from 3 other clubs prepared to give him his minimum ask? One club signed him for more than his minimum ask - good luck to him.

With Gagai, his experience, his position, and relative health, combined with the chemistry he has been building with that whole left side, you have to consider, is a 2 year deal really gonna be such a risk to the club? Particularly when there is no real obvious replacement currently within the ranks.

With Cody, one could argue (and Greg Alexander and Braith Anasta, and Mick Ennis have done exactly that) that Cody is the one behind the play, the potency, the threat of the whole Souths attack, and is the most key player to almost all of that being unlocked. He started 1st grade relatively late (26), hasn't gone through the physicality that someone like Adam has endured, and with Cody, it's not so much his speed is the key, it's his vision, guile, and ball playing ability that is keys to that play. That just doesn't drop off a cliff just because he is 31, or 32, or even 33. Cronk was still able to do that @ 36.

On Sutton, he had a major decline toward the end of his 5 year contract, and hadn't really been a dominant player for a number of years. This, plus the money he had been on, plus the cap situation with Sam, and GI, Adam etc, meant no way he was going to be offered big or long term deals. At that time, many were hoping he'd just retire. He started taking one year deals, because it's likely no one else would off e r better. To his credit, he completely turned around his impact and form during those one year deals. It's just not comparing apples with apples when talking about Sutto and Reyno contract positions.

I think you've summed it up perfectly Botany.

 

[Rabbits20]

I disagree. Offering a 1 year deal to a key player is a slap in the face. As for the club protecting it's future, one way to do that is to lock up quality players (like Cody). You seem to think that once a player reaches a certain age that then then have nothing more to offer. It's the shiny new toy syndrome, get rid of the senior player so you can grab some young guy who may or may not turn out to be any good. Cody has well and truly earned a multi year extension (just like Reyno had too) but for some reason the club can't see that.

Exactly and 30 isn’t old if Reyno was 33 I could understand a one year offer.

Cody surely gets 2 years, if not they’ve lost the plot same re Gagai too.

 

[Rabbits20]

Show me were i said i know im right. I have my opinion,just like you do, i stick by it. I love this club its unfortunate AR loves the money and Didnt show the same loyalty sutto did, if you read my last post about gagai, thats the situation AR avoided,players like thiaday,parker and many others stuck by their clubs on yearly lowering pays to stay one club players,yes i bagged AR but i loved him, he just thought with his pocket rather than his heart. You just choose to misquote me and rubbish my view on the situation. Then the fact thative said many times we miss richos negotiating and need a replacment.
AR didnt want to lose money so he let us, whove supported him for all his years , down, no two ways about it, his last contract was a 3m 4 year deal more than i make in a lifetime of normal work,so if he hasnt looked after his family by now whats he done? This is cream for him and he would have got close to it sticking around

Sutto got a 2 year deal at 30 mate then at 32/33 he started one year deals so your point re Sutto taking one year deals is irrelevant as he didn’t do it at 30 years old like Reyno who is currently 30.

We couldn’t guarantee Reyno could stay either even if he went very well next year we couldn’t say we guarantee you another deal. Part of this issue is having Knight and Arrow signed on overs, both poor situations re whey they’re on.

If we gave him 2 years on solid money he would’ve stayed, I believe it was more length of contract. And Souths weren’t willing to meet in the middle on 2 years.

We have to be careful let too much quality go it doesn’t take long and you slide all the way down the ladder. Just as we have younger players doesn’t mean they’ll make it at this level. Look at other clubs lots of young guys haven’t been able to make the jump up to first grade.

 

[Rabbits20]

This is not a good stat from the NRL site.

*South Sydney (280) sit a startling second for ineffective tackles behind only Brisbane (306). Defence has been a sore point for the Rabbitohs at times this season.

 

[BotanyBorn&Bred]

I think you've summed it up perfectly Botany.

Obviously with each player's case, there are other factors that need to be considered, we are probably not privy to much of that info.

With Adam, I get 3 years is a big risk, and I get that another long term deals could mean we risk losing our up-and comers that we have waiting for playing time. I don't begrudge the decision he arrived at, but we could have done better than one year, although I can also understand the need to move up the young guys and find out if they are up to it.

With Gagai, we don't know how much he is asking. He has been on record saying he'd take a pay cut for Adam being kept, but maybe his position has changed. Maybe Souths are looking at cheaper alternatives that have as much skill, such as Walker or Trav's suggestion, so, my view is we just can't entertain anything longer than 2 years for him, and it would have to be at a reduced price. I u understand if that is not good enough to keep him

Cody, I believe, is the most important one to make sure we keep. I'd definitely be offering another 2 years, I've explained why.

But I agree, we can't be just shotting out players because of some arbitrary use by date, players aren't going to want to come to the club. Also, Demeteriou is a big unknown, who knows if he can attract players other than Broncos rejects.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Adam is a whole of league player, massive icon.

i think the club made a mistake, but it’s done.

If he speaks unkindly about the club, it detracts from his stature, is negative and won’t fix anything.

Lots of people vilifying Jai tonight. He made a bad mistake, but I’m over the hate.

I’ve lost friends on the forum trying to show some compassion.

Tigers back in the mix for Pangai as of a short time ago. Mmm. Overs of course!

 

[BotanyBorn&Bred]

Sutto got a 2 year deal at 30 mate then at 32/33 he started one year deals so your point re Sutto taking one year deals is irrelevant as he didn’t do it at 30 years old like Reyno who is currently 30.

We couldn’t guarantee Reyno could stay either even if he went very well next year we couldn’t say we guarantee you another deal. Part of this issue is having Knight and Arrow signed on overs, both poor situations re whey they’re on.

If we gave him 2 years on solid money he would’ve stayed, I believe it was more length of contract. And Souths weren’t willing to meet in the middle on 2 years.

We have to be careful let too much quality go it doesn’t take long and you slide all the way down the ladder. Just as we have younger players doesn’t mean they’ll make it at this level. Look at other clubs lots of young guys haven’t been able to make the jump up to first grade.

Thanks for the correction.
A lot of people I spoke with didn't want to sign him for that 2 year deal, and it was that 2nd year of that deal his form really took an upswing. Hence the one year deals after that.

But the rest of what I said, I'm basically agreeing with you that it doesn't apply to Reyno, he needed to be considered differently.

This is what I, and you, and Jim have tried explaining to Handy. Obviously he doesn't agree.....

 

[BotanyBorn&Bred]

This is not a good stat from the NRL site.

*South Sydney (280) sit a startling second for ineffective tackles behind only Brisbane (306). Defence has been a sore point for the Rabbitohs at times this season.

I wonder how much of that was racked up during those two massacres against the Storm and Penrith?
But yeah, this needs to improve, the 2nd half of the Tigers game wasn't good. We also need to stop the offload better than we do.