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2023-2028 next tv deal discussion

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
34,005
Why did you change the point ? Why are they losing money now ? Cause they did that stupid backended tv deal to fool people like you

so you admit the afl tv money is going up next year. So you agree it is a backended deal

thanks
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,738
Why did you change the point ? Why are they losing money now ? Cause they did that stupid backended tv deal to fool people like you

so you admit the afl tv money is going up next year. So you agree it is a backended deal

thanks
Its not changing the point, I'm just showing you that despite their club reductions and our significant increase they still gave their clubs and players significantly more money than us last year.

Because they have decided to not reduce spending to a break even point. They've made that call knowing they will cover their losses in 23&24. They could have easily slashed a further $50mill out the budget if they chose to but decided they didn't need to given the money they've got coming.

If its back ended or not doesnt really matter does it, what matters is they are covering the money they have lost during covid. In the mean time we also lost, around $50-60mill according to media reports, but will gain none of that back in our next deal. Whose looks the better deal??
By 2025 they will be ahead again on the books and having a new deal that they allegedly want $500mill a year for, then whose going to look the mugs?
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
34,005
Its not changing the point, I'm just showing you that despite their club reductions and our significant increase they still gave their clubs and players significantly more money than us last year.

Because they have decided to not reduce spending to a break even point. They've made that call knowing they will cover their losses in 23&24. They could have easily slashed a further $50mill out the budget if they chose to but decided they didn't need to given the money they've got coming.

If its back ended or not doesnt really matter does it, what matters is they are covering the money they have lost during covid. In the mean time we also lost, around $50-60mill according to media reports, but will gain none of that back in our next deal. Whose looks the better deal??
By 2025 they will be ahead again on the books and having a new deal that they allegedly want $500mill a year for, then whose going to look the mugs?

Afl head office made savage cuts to spending to go with the loss in revenue. In addition to this many clubs took out loans which were guaranteed by the afl

the afl is now still repaying loans it took out during covid and who knows how much debt is owed by clubs that hasn’t been repaid.

And even with these savage cuts they are still bleeding money

this is why they axed gill his management of the game during covid was reactionary and way behind vlandys
 

The_Wookie

Bench
Messages
3,285
he has provided the most compelling explanation yet. It’s backed up by the afl financials being so poor compared to the nrl. Clearly the nrl is bringing in more revenue that the afl isn’t.

Hes completely invented a theory that is based on little more than "the afl is full of it", regardless of what the CEO of the league says.

That the NRL made more profit in one year is right, but the financials of the NRL give no detail on broadcast revenues that anyone could use to draw any conclusions from - and no amounts have been given by the NRL either.

As for bringing in more revenue than the AFL, thats something of a fallacy. The AFL may have made less profit last year, but they still generated much more in revenue than the NRL.

YearAFL RevenueAFL Profit/LossARLC RevenueARLC Profit/Loss
2012$ 471,493,000$ 8,428,000$185,668,000$4,675,000
2013$ 502,699,000$ 18,229,000$320,375,000$45,341,000
2014$ 524,431,000$ 13,320,000$350,902,000$20,232,000
2015$ 558,674,000$ 3,648,000$374,142,000-$18,655,000
2016$ 569,856,000-$ 15,455,000$391,368,000-$8,649,000
2017$ 752,622,000$ 60,344,000$400,091,000-$6,421,000
2018$ 778,596,000$ 25,874,000$523,562,000$50,250,000
2019$ 793,939,000$ 27,858,000$555,915,000$28,983,000
2020$ 674,816,000-$ 8,738,000$419,673,000-$24,742,000
2021$738,137,000-$29,487,000$575,080,000$43,057,000
Total$6,365,263,000$104,021,000$4,096,776,000$134,071,000
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
34,005
Hes completely invented a theory that is based on little more than "the afl is full of it", regardless of what the CEO of the league says.

That the NRL made more profit in one year is right, but the financials of the NRL give no detail on broadcast revenues that anyone could use to draw any conclusions from - and no amounts have been given by the NRL either.

As for bringing in more revenue than the AFL, thats something of a fallacy. The AFL may have made less profit last year, but they still generated much more in revenue than the NRL.

YearAFL RevenueAFL Profit/LossARLC RevenueARLC Profit/Loss
2012$ 471,493,000$ 8,428,000$185,668,000$4,675,000
2013$ 502,699,000$ 18,229,000$320,375,000$45,341,000
2014$ 524,431,000$ 13,320,000$350,902,000$20,232,000
2015$ 558,674,000$ 3,648,000$374,142,000-$18,655,000
2016$ 569,856,000-$ 15,455,000$391,368,000-$8,649,000
2017$ 752,622,000$ 60,344,000$400,091,000-$6,421,000
2018$ 778,596,000$ 25,874,000$523,562,000$50,250,000
2019$ 793,939,000$ 27,858,000$555,915,000$28,983,000
2020$ 674,816,000-$ 8,738,000$419,673,000-$24,742,000
2021$738,137,000-$29,487,000$575,080,000$43,057,000
Total$6,365,263,000$104,021,000$4,096,776,000$134,071,000
When gill announced the tv deal my first reaction was he’s full of crap. Then baselinepanther provided the perfect explanation

one that also fits in with afls bottom line vs nrl

ignore it all you want there’s currently a differential of around 130 million in both codes bottom lines.

nrl clubs have never been better funded before ever.

and nobody walks away from a job of 2 million plus pa. Tbf the amount the afl is spending on executives vs nrl is ridiculous. Especially given the nrl executives are running rings around the afl
 

colly

Juniors
Messages
1,069
err their deal goes up to $473mill next year, how are we overtaking them?
AFL are reportedly looking for $500mill a year from 2025. If they get it it will leave some serious egg on the face of Vlandys who negotiated a $403mill a year deal for 5 years!
Only 19 months until the AFL's cash claim of $473 per year can be verified, in the Feb 2024 accounts.. We will see if the figure holds up. OF course the Dill will have moved on by then. By latter this year world wide recession will be in full swing with inflation notching ever up, I can't see a good deal be settled then under them circumstances- so then maybe Vlandy NRL deal will look prophetic.- It was just meant to be!
 

The_Wookie

Bench
Messages
3,285

Afl head office made savage cuts to spending to go with the loss in revenue. In addition to this many clubs took out loans which were guaranteed by the afl

the afl is now still repaying loans it took out during covid and who knows how much debt is owed by clubs that hasn’t been repaid.

And even with these savage cuts they are still bleeding money

this is why they axed gill his management of the game during covid was reactionary and way behind vlandys

Always great to see an article that shows my work. lol.

The AFL made cuts yes - 2 or 3 clubs took out loans, most didnt - AFL interest bearing liabilities rose slightly duing this period but not massively, and the losses the league suffered are certainly not unsustainable in the short to long term.

In 2019, the AFL had 95m in interest bearing loans and liabilities (tied to the stadium loan).
In 2020, the AFL had 113m in interest bearing loans and liabilities, indicating borrowing of 18m.
In 2021, the AFL had 90m in interest bearing loans and liabilities

Vlandys has been good for League but the terms of his media deal extension are relatively unknown and his influence on the AFL is overstated. Mclachlans management of the AFL was largely dependent on the advice from the state governments where the league is played - he didnt have a letter in his pocket from the NSW Government allowing him to continue regardless. And like every other league in the world, started as soon as they were legally able.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,738

Afl head office made savage cuts to spending to go with the loss in revenue. In addition to this many clubs took out loans which were guaranteed by the afl

the afl is now still repaying loans it took out during covid and who knows how much debt is owed by clubs that hasn’t been repaid.

And even with these savage cuts they are still bleeding money

this is why they axed gill his management of the game during covid was reactionary and way behind vlandys
But the point is they could have cut more if they chose to if break even or a surplus was the goal, but they know they didnt need to as the money was coming back in.

The $70 million'ish a year TV revenue gap in 2023 will be the largest since before the 2013 tv deal. Lets hope they cant realize what they want from 2025!
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
34,005
Always great to see an article that shows my work. lol.

The AFL made cuts yes - 2 or 3 clubs took out loans, most didnt - AFL interest bearing liabilities rose slightly duing this period but not massively, and the losses the league suffered are certainly not unsustainable in the short to long term.

In 2019, the AFL had 95m in interest bearing loans and liabilities (tied to the stadium loan).
In 2020, the AFL had 113m in interest bearing loans and liabilities, indicating borrowing of 18m.
In 2021, the AFL had 90m in interest bearing loans and liabilities

Vlandys has been good for League but the terms of his media deal extension are relatively unknown and his influence on the AFL is overstated. Mclachlans management of the AFL was largely dependent on the advice from the state governments where the league is played - he didnt have a letter in his pocket from the NSW Government allowing him to continue regardless. And like every other league in the world, started as soon as they were legally able.
Add in the tens of millions in clubs debts guaranteed by the afl.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,738
Only 19 months until the AFL's cash claim of $473 per year can be verified, in the Feb 2024 accounts.. We will see if the figure holds up. OF course the Dill will have moved on by then. By latter this year world wide recession will be in full swing with inflation notching ever up, I can't see a good deal be settled then under them circumstances- so then maybe Vlandy NRL deal will look prophetic.- It was just meant to be!
That's optimistic but you never know!
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
34,005
But the point is they could have cut more if they chose to if break even or a surplus was the goal, but they know they didnt need to as the money was coming back in.

The $70 million'ish a year TV revenue gap in 2023 will be the largest since before the 2013 tv deal. Lets hope they cant realize what they want from 2025!
70 million won’t be enough to close the gap between nrl and afl given it’s currently a 140 million difference in both codes bottom line
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,738
70 million won’t be enough to close the gap between nrl and afl given it’s currently a 140 million difference in both codes bottom line
hmmm, I think you dont understand the budget cycles and whats been happening lol.
 

The_Wookie

Bench
Messages
3,285
When gill announced the tv deal my first reaction was he’s full of crap. Then baselinepanther provided the perfect explanation

one that also fits in with afls bottom line vs nrl

ignore it all you want there’s currently a differential of around 130 million in both codes bottom lines.

nrl clubs have never been better funded before ever.

and nobody walks away from a job of 2 million plus pa. Tbf the amount the afl is spending on executives vs nrl is ridiculous. Especially given the nrl executives are running rings around the afl

It doesnt fit with the bottom line at all. There also a difference of 160m in revenue that you are ignoring, if profit was the driver for thef AFL - a non profit company - then theyd have cut back even further.

AFL clubs funding will return to normal levels - did last year in fact.

Other than Demetriou the other 2 AFL CEOs have last 8 years or less. No AFL CEO has been fired or told to leave. 9 years is long enough in this job. JUst because the NRL has a revolving door on its CEO role doesnt mean the AFL has to.,
 
Messages
14,822
There's probably still a million foxsports subscribers on STV, if they migrate over as well that doubles that figure and probably covers the deals ok. Fox will pay around $500mill a year for NRL and AFL next year.
Yeah but if they migrate from Foxtel Sports HD to Kayo then they'll go from paying $74 to $25.

I'd love to know just how much people are actually paying to view Foxtel Sports HD and Kayo. Foxtel will negotiate with frustrated customers and give them a reduced fee if they threaten to unsubscribe. Then there's the people who are on a discounted Kayo deal. Don't forget the people who only subscribe during the football season. I suspect Foxtel are making much less money than they want us to know.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
34,005
It doesnt fit with the bottom line at all. There also a difference of 160m in revenue that you are ignoring, if profit was the driver for thef AFL - a non profit company - then theyd have cut back even further.

AFL clubs funding will return to normal levels - did last year in fact.

Other than Demetriou the other 2 AFL CEOs have last 8 years or less. No AFL CEO has been fired or told to leave. 9 years is long enough in this job. JUst because the NRL has a revolving door on its CEO role doesnt mean the AFL has to.,
You posted yourself on your twitter that without the jobseeker afl clubs on the whole lost money last year. Yes I do read your posts quite a bit
 

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