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2023-2028 next tv deal discussion

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,522
I will break it down as simple as I can. AFL count Telstra so I will add the $40m they pay NRL to the deal

NRL

2023 - $449m
2024 - $449m
2025 - $449m
2026 - $449m
2027 - $449m
2028 - ???
2029 - ???
2030 - ???
2031 - ???

AFL
2023 - $473m
2024 - $473m
2025 - $550m
2026 - $550m
2027 - $550m
2028 - $550m
2029 - $550m
2030 - $550m
2031 - $550m
H
NRL and AFL currently are pretty much neck and neck allowing for the extra game.

These deals get started about 2 years out so in year 1 of the new AFL deal

Dolphins would of been in the comp a few years then, Ready to plan for the 9th game. That will add value.

The NRLW should of found its spot in the calendar, with 17 teams also. Adding value

So no reason why on the last 4 years of the AFL deal NRL can't be back to neck and neck. So it is a timing thing overlap more than a terrible deal for NRL
You being very disingenuous, or just plain wrong lol.

The direct comparison of tv deal only is the nrls cash deal is $370mill from 2023, the afls $550mill from 2025.
We’ve yet to see what the cash component of 23&24 $473mill is for afl And have no indication at this time.

telstra are paying afl for digital platform management rights, nrls digital platform revenue minus costs is no where even close to $50mill And certainly is t the mystery $47mill you e plucked out of the air.
So even though it’s not a tv deal per se it’s still a massive revenue boost over nrls digital platform revenue for them.

Real Comparison minus contra and telstra and having a very conservative guess at the afl cash amount for 23&24

2023 - $370m
2024 - $370m
2025 - $370m
2026 - $370m
2027 - $370m
2028 - ???
2029 - ???
2030 - ???
2031 - ???

AFL
2023 - $400m
2024 - $400m
2025 - $550m
2026 - $550m
2027 - $550m
2028 - $550m
2029 - $550m
2030 - $550m
2031 - $550m

so by end of our deal they will be at least $600million cash ahead in tv deals only!! Just ponder on that for a second and think of what the nrl could have achieved with another $600mill over 5 years!
 
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Messages
14,822
They are only going to what we have done. exclusive ptv Saturday, more ltd fta covg, night gf. All stuff we gave to fox and nine years ago. Difference is they are getting paid, a lot, for it!
According to the Sky News Australia article I posted a few pages back the non-Victorian teams will still be broadcast into their local market, with only a select few of their games exclusive to Foxtel.
 
Messages
14,822
You’re right. The SL and it’s aftermath put us back a couple of decades. I would add though their management in that same time frame has very good

I think you have pinpointed a few issues. Stadiums are a big one. I would add even your stadium at the Gong as another and that would help the Dragons a bit.

Perth should be the next side and then hopefully we really go hard at NZ and the Pacific and look at international football because that is our advantage against fumbleball and get to 20 sides. Also getting assets (a stadium and some others)
We should buy back Lang Park and have the Broncos and Dolphins based out of it full time. If Easts Tigers are ever given a licence they could become the third team to be based at Lang Park. Thirty-six NRL games between them, plus the 8 or 9 from Magic Round to make it 44 or 45. Add Origin and Internationals. Would be a huge money earner for the NRL.

No point buying a stadium in Sydney since teams won't share it.
 

Iamback

Referee
Messages
20,283
You being very disingenuous, or just plain wrong lol.

The direct comparison of tv deal only is the nrls cash deal is $370mill from 2023, the afls $550mill from 2025.
We’ve yet to see what the cash component of 23&24 $473mill is for afl And have no indication at this time.

telstra are paying afl for digital platform management rights, nrls digital platform revenue minus costs is no where even close to $50mill And certainly is t the mystery $47mill you e plucked out of the air.
So even though it’s not a tv deal per se it’s still a massive revenue boost over nrls digital platform revenue for them.

Real Comparison minus contra and telstra and having a very conservative guess at the afl cash amount for 23&24

2023 - $370m
2024 - $370m
2025 - $370m
2026 - $370m
2027 - $370m
2028 - ???
2029 - ???
2030 - ???
2031 - ???

AFL
2023 - $400m
2024 - $400m
2025 - $550m
2026 - $550m
2027 - $550m
2028 - $550m
2029 - $550m
2030 - $550m
2031 - $550m

so by end of our deal they will be at least $600million cash ahead in tv deals only!! Just ponder on that for a second and think of what the nrl could have achieved with another $600mill over 5 years!

Not sure where you are getting your contra figures from but Financial review, Roy Masters and a few other sources have it as $409m. Matches the NRL statement. You can't pay players with contra so most must be cash, Or we would of heard when the players saw the books

Channel 9 $130m total ($15m contra is known)
Fox Sports $260m total ( Not sure if it is counting the $100m for Dolphins)
Sky Sports $32m

= $422m

Last TV deal $40m/pa from Telstra was listed nothing here, AFL include this

Recently re-signed with the NRL. they are still running the NRL and club websites. With the pop up ads when you watch a video.
Still getting their revenue. So it safe to say that deal would still be going with the competition sponsorship on top. So put that in too.

That gives $462m a year. Take off roughly 10% contra ( this matches the known ch9 number)

Clears the $409m easily.
 

The_Wookie

Bench
Messages
3,243
Not sure where you are getting your contra figures from but Financial review, Roy Masters and a few other sources have it as $409m. Matches the NRL statement. You can't pay players with contra so most must be cash, Or we would of heard when the players saw the books

Channel 9 $130m total ($15m contra is known)
Fox Sports $260m total ( Not sure if it is counting the $100m for Dolphins)
Sky Sports $32m

= $422m

Last TV deal $40m/pa from Telstra was listed nothing here, AFL include this

Recently re-signed with the NRL. they are still running the NRL and club websites. With the pop up ads when you watch a video.
Still getting their revenue. So it safe to say that deal would still be going with the competition sponsorship on top. So put that in too.

That gives $462m a year. Take off roughly 10% contra ( this matches the known ch9 number)

Clears the $409m easily.

Nines release to the ASX is the only definitive we have for the NRL. That and Abdos "over 400m per year"

Telstras NRL deal is $18m a year ($90m over 5 years - this was literally announced 2 days ago) for naming rights and tech partnership stuff. It was not part of the media rights announcement nor did it apparently bid for any rights.

Ive never seen a Fox figure given - but the Dolphins money was included in the rights announcement.
Masters never gave a Fox figure and points out the details were a secret.

Theres some contra in the sky deal as well.
 
Messages
14,822
The experts reckon it's a "seller's market" for tier one sports like rugby league, fumbleball and cricket.

“The value of highly engaged sports audiences will only grow as traditional TV audiences continue to decline or fragment,” says Sue-Ellen Osborn, head of investment at Spark Foundry Sydney. “For many clients, the cultural relevance and attention that a Sport environment contributes to a campaign is fundamental to how they connect with consumers or create an impactful campaign.”

Questions about value and the price of sports rights make for interesting discussion, in what one industry onlooker calls a “seller’s market for tier one sports, and a buyer’s for tier two”.


Questions need to be asked.

How did V'landys botch our deal so badly when it's a seller's market for tier one sports?

Is V'landys a News Ltd puppet?

Is V'landys a charlatan only concerned about his job?

Surely V'landys will have to resign over this debacle.
 

Billythekid

First Grade
Messages
6,828
The mental gymnastics going on this thread lol. Just deal with it. Yet again you predicted the AFL would struggle to get more money than us and yet again y’all have ended up with egg on your face.

The thing is everyone is panicking way too much. Their deal starts in 2025 and ours ends in 2027. Frankly the NRL should now be looking at how we match that deal and we’re only a couple of years behind. Add an 18th team to the comp and we should be asking for the same amount as AFL.

It’s not the end of the world like some of you are making it out to be.
 

Nerd

Bench
Messages
2,827
For the first time in my life I feel like Rugby League is a second rate football code in this country. Looks like our part time CEO did a part time job with our last rights deal. I can see the stupid look and shrug of the shoulders the next time an ARLC official comes across Patrick Delaney from Fox. They need to remind him then and there that without the NRL on Fox/Kayo good luck making ends meet on the new AFL deal. In essence the NRL is subsidising the deal and heads must roll in the ARLC.

The really galling part is compare the speed and physicality of our game which is almost made for TV viewing against the fumbling mess that is AFL. V'Landys can go and he can take that crap 6 again rule with him that has led to blow out scores and gives under performing refs a way to influence games with zero scrutiny. If any of the broadcasters want us to change the fabric of our game to suit them they need to dig very deep into their pockets.

The next ARL CEO has to step back and take a look at the NRL as a national sport not the Sydney centric looking out view that we have now. The first thing required is a team in Perth. Gives us an extra game a week and zero excuses from broadcasters why they can't match the AFL deal.

There also needs to be an enquiry into our last rights negotiation as to who made what decisions and why. They also need to check that everything was done above board.
 

Nerd

Bench
Messages
2,827
Mate there will be around a $450million total revenue gap by 2025. With $450million a year more than us they can do whatever they like and pss away as much as they want on expansion and still have money to do other stuff we can’t.
I'm not saying they couldn't afford it as they certainly will have the extra coin to blow but as I stated a second team in Brisbane would be a financial black hole. Introducing the Suns halved the Lions crowds over night and showed how small the AFL following is in south east Queensland. Nine out of ten people in Brisbane couldn't name one Lions player if asked off the cuff.
 
Messages
3,224
The good news is if Ch9/Stan are willng to bid $2.5b over five years on AwFuL then there's no reason we cannot ask them to give us at least that much to get away from Foxtel. They'll need content in 2027, so whoever is leading our game will need to tell the bastards to pay up big time or piss off. I'd demand at least $3.5b over five years ($700m pa) for the lot in a take it or leave it offer.
stuff ch 9 & stan & foxtel too OFC

hit up Paramount /10 for a 10 year deal for 6.5 billion 28-38
thats with our 9th game locked in , reps , women, SOO.... the lot

& only the TV revenue from Aust , no sponsorship money included like the aflol has in their deal

Then the kiwis on top of that
If its an aussie side 40M pa & if its a kiwi side it'll be 60 mill plus

690- 710 mill pa
the bar has been set

Vlandys because of his exemplary management of the game ( posting 43 mill profits during a pandemic when the fumblers.... lost... 43 mill was no mean feat )

he should be given one more opportunity to get this next deal right .... or... hes gone
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,522
N
Not sure where you are getting your contra figures from but Financial review, Roy Masters and a few other sources have it as $409m. Matches the NRL statement. You can't pay players with contra so most must be cash, Or we would of heard when the players saw the books

Channel 9 $130m total ($15m contra is known)
Fox Sports $260m total ( Not sure if it is counting the $100m for Dolphins)
Sky Sports $32m

= $422m

Last TV deal $40m/pa from Telstra was listed nothing here, AFL include this

Recently re-signed with the NRL. they are still running the NRL and club websites. With the pop up ads when you watch a video.
Still getting their revenue. So it safe to say that deal would still be going with the competition sponsorship on top. So put that in too.

That gives $462m a year. Take off roughly 10% contra ( this matches the known ch9 number)

Clears the $409m easily.
NrL announced the deal as “over” $400 mill which was total.
we know what nine and skynz are paying $162.4mill between them that includes $20mill of contra from nine plus what contra is is in the sky nz deal. That leaves around $240mill for fox which includes a contra amount. Last deal nrl total contra was $24mill so add $5mill ch9 contra increase plus what ever of the $12.4mill skynz increase is contra and you get up to the $30-35mill contra package that is in the $402mill

the last deal with telstra wasnt $40mill a year and telstra dont run the nrl and club websites. The nrls digital am does.last deal telstra paid fox for streaming coverage and only paid nrl for main competition namimg rights somewhere between $12-20mill.

the fact of the matter is in 2025 nrl will get $370mill cash compared to afls $550mill, not including telstra in either deal. There is no sugar coating this reality for you Vlandys apologists.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,808
The mental gymnastics going on this thread lol. Just deal with it. Yet again you predicted the AFL would struggle to get more money than us and yet again y’all have ended up with egg on your face.

The thing is everyone is panicking way too much. Their deal starts in 2025 and ours ends in 2027. Frankly the NRL should now be looking at how we match that deal and we’re only a couple of years behind. Add an 18th team to the comp and we should be asking for the same amount as AFL.

It’s not the end of the world like some of you are making it out to be.
Yeah the AFL deal is a great one but the code hasn't taken over or anything like that. GWS and Suns are still huge drain on them, neither club has been much of a success on and off the field so how are they going to put more teams in Brisbane and Sydney?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,522
Yeah the AFL deal is a great one but the code hasn't taken over or anything like that. GWS and Suns are still huge drain on them, neither club has been much of a success on and off the field so how are they going to put more teams in Brisbane and Sydney?
they won’t, they will massively increase spending in those states though.
Tassie will be next then club 20 may or may not happen in this tv deal lifetime but there isn’t an obvious candidate other than maybe canberra.
 

LimeRick

Juniors
Messages
77
Let’s also not forget the real gap between what ch9/fox value nrl at compared to what ch7/fox value afl at is:

nrl $370mill inc around $25mill contra
afl $593mill inc around $40mill contra

That is how the Australian tv pertners view the two competitions!

I keep seeing this pop up, can somebody explain what contra means?
 
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14,822

AFL's $4.5 billion deal with Channel Seven and Foxtel shows footy is still the jewel in the TV crown​

By national sport reporter David Mark
Posted 1h ago1 hours ago
Gillon McLachlan is among a number of people sitting at a desk during a press conference
Gillon McLachlan announces the AFL's bumper new broadcast deal.(AAP: Joel Carrett)

Any thoughts that the days of record TV sport deals were over have just been blown out of the water.

There was a time, not so long ago, when it seemed that Australian sport's TV deals had reached the end of days.

But the new deal the AFL has struck with Foxtel and the Seven Network, worth $4.5 billion over seven years, has created a new paradigm.

This at a time when free-to-air TV audiences are declining and viewers on the myriad of streaming services have more choices than ever.

AFL confirms $4.5 billion broadcast deal

The AFL confirms it has sold its television broadcast rights for the next seven years to Channel Seven and Foxtel for an "unprecedented" figure of $4.5 billion.
Gillon McLachlan speaks at a press conference
Read more

In 2015, the AFL announced they'd sold their TV rights to Seven and Foxtel for the seasons spanning from 2017 to 2022 for what the league itself described as a "colossal" $2.5 billion.

The thinking amongst media commentators then was that it was never going to get better than this – that media companies had been paying too much for sport and surely now the price was going to drop.

"We've been the leader of that camp," Steve Allen, director of strategy and research at Pearman Media, said.

"We've been saying for too long that sports rights generally — AFL in particular, but also NRL — have peaked out, that telecasters can't afford to pay any more, but yet again we've been proven wrong."

It seems the AFL is a league of its own – "the greatest game in the world," according to chief executive Gillon McLachlan — and his broadcast partners seem to agree.

So while the Seven Network has taken legal action against Cricket Australia to terminate its $450 million TV rights deal, because it felt it was paying over the odds for a sub-standard Big Bash League, it's happy to keep paying big money for the AFL.

The 2015 AFL deal continued a steady increase in AFL rights which were worth just $6 million per year from 1987 to 1992, then continued to increase by at least 50 per cent every time a new agreement was signed.

Even when COVID-19 disrupted the AFL in 2020 and 2021 and the broadcasters managed to get a discount for a couple of years, the contract was renegotiated for even more money for the 2023 and 2024 seasons.

AFL broadcast deals​

Values of the AFL's broadcast deals by millions per-annum
1987-1992 (7)6
1993-1998 (7)17
1999-2001 (7)40
2002-2006 (Fox/9/10)100
2007-2011 (Fox/7/10)150
2012-2016 (Fox/7)250
2017-2019 (Fox/7)417
2020-2022 (Fox/7 COVID years)363
2023-2024 (Fox/7)473
2025-2031 (Fox/7)643

And here we are now, $4.5 billion later.

So what's going on?

For one, the AFL has been courting many broadcasters to bid up the price, including Paramount Global — the owner of the Ten Network and Paramount + in Australia — as well as Channel Nine and Stan.

The numbers suggest the amount of viewers watching the AFL on TV is growing.

This year, the average number of viewers watching each one of the 198 home and away AFL matches was 537,000, according to figures compiled by the Sports Industry AU website, based on Oztam ratings.

In 2019 (the best comparison year prior to the two COVID-disrupted years), the figure was an average of 461,000 per game, according to the AFL's annual report.

The big change between 2019 and 2022 was the proportion of people watching the AFL on subscription TV via Foxtel or its streaming platform, Kayo.

In 2019, subscriptions accounted for 37 per cent of viewers — this year, it's 54 per cent.

The number of free-to-air viewers watching on Seven declined from 290,000 per match in 2019 to 278,000 this year, despite the overall increase in viewing numbers.

The decline in free-to-air viewers confirms what we all know: TV as we used to know it has been steadily falling and the demographic is getting older.
"The market's fragmenting at an increasing rate," Allen said.

"The main channels are down about 18 per cent."

And the kids don't watch free-to-air TV at all, they're either playing games or streaming.

So free-to-air numbers are declining for Seven, but Foxtel also has more competition on its hands from the likes of Stan, Binge, Amazon Prime, Disney+, Apple and YouTube, not to mention the free-to-air broadcaster's video-on-demand services like the ABC's iview.
With that much competition in the market, how is it that the price for AFL rights keeps going up?

Allen has several theories.

"Telecasters who are happy with their ratings and their performance of various sports are very unwilling to let them go," he said.

The AFL was able to eke out the last $50 million, Allen says, despite the rival bids from Nine and Paramount Plus because Seven and Foxtel simply didn't want to let go.

The AFL ratings remain very good, particularly for Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights.

The other devil in the detail that the AFL is yet to reveal is how exactly that $4.5 billion will be broken down.

Allen believes Seven's proportion of the total rights deal may have gone down, which in part explains why it can afford to keep paying for a product despite declining viewing numbers.

Moreover, it's been guaranteed a high rating slot on Thursday nights for 15 matches every season.

The downside is that the new deal means for the first eight rounds of every season, Saturday matches will be played exclusively on Foxtel and Kayo and those footy fans who can't afford to pay for a subscription aren't going to be happy.
"I think you're going to get a bit of hostility, you're going to get a bit of pushback," Allen said.

The AFL will have to find a way to placate those viewers and it remains to be seen whether extra Thursday night games will be enough.

AFL fans outside Victoria will be able to watch their local teams on a Saturday on free-to-air TV, but the matches will be delayed by two hours.

And the AFL is promising that 10 per cent of all its revenue will go to grass-roots football from next season.

The AFL is also promising a minimum of 30 AFLW games will be broadcast on free-to-air TV.

As for Foxtel, Allen said the AFL was a loss leader for the subscription service and for very good reasons.

"You can imagine if they lost the AFL, that would put a very big hole in Kayo, it would put a very big hole in their overall programming and ratings."

Media commentator Peter Cox says the broadcasters "are trying to grab what they think can be the cornerstone for their network".

Cox calls them "tentpoles" – a product that supports the broadcast's other offerings, even if it in itself runs at a loss.
"Aussie Rules football, firstly it's national, which they like … from a network's point of view, it's the one sport that's doing well," Cox said.

The sport's doing well, alright — and the AFL's now got an extra $4.5 billion to prove it.

 
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