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2023 Grand Final Panthers vs Broncos

murraymob

First Grade
Messages
9,866
I get asked a lot what makes Penrith different yes we can say it’s the system .But players still have to buy the n to it.The players drive the effort
Grand final could have gone the other way if the alert and drive was not there
Kenny stays alive for that 1 in 100 moment the ball comes back try .Leota stays alive for that 1 in 100 moment try.Sorrenson on the inside before Cleary try stays alert gets out of way no obstruction try .thats what makes win close games
 

maple_69

Bench
Messages
4,395
Yeah exactly right. The club has hand picked the squad for this attribute over all others. Most of the guys we keep and back, of all the talented kids that come through, are those that have ridiculous work ethic, brilliant attitude and insatiable hunger. They’re the guys that knocked back $400K at 19 to get a start straightaway at another club.

Turuva came in and was asked to just hurl his tiny frame at the opposition 20 times a game and he just kept coming back. Staines won a premiership on the back of the same resilience to fill a role that didn’t suit him

Cleary is in conversation with Thurston and Johns as the GOAT half despite having a scrap of their talent but the drive of both combined.

Martin is the best edge forward in the game and he can’t run a line, can’t pass, can’t kick, isn’t fast and doesn’t have a step.

Kenny is a small forward without much skill and really shouldn’t have made it past Reserves except he has more heart than 99% of the NRL.

Smith came into the squad as a bloke built for big, low intensity minutes and was asked to be Scott Sorenson and so he hurled himself at everything frenetically, played the ball fast and forged himself into an effective impact prop.

Our system is great for sure but the humans we choose to put in it are what makes it truly unique and enduring.
 

Aliceinwonderland

First Grade
Messages
7,524
Yeah exactly right. The club has hand picked the squad for this attribute over all others. Most of the guys we keep and back, of all the talented kids that come through, are those that have ridiculous work ethic, brilliant attitude and insatiable hunger. They’re the guys that knocked back $400K at 19 to get a start straightaway at another club.

Turuva came in and was asked to just hurl his tiny frame at the opposition 20 times a game and he just kept coming back. Staines won a premiership on the back of the same resilience to fill a role that didn’t suit him

Cleary is in conversation with Thurston and Johns as the GOAT half despite having a scrap of their talent but the drive of both combined.

Martin is the best edge forward in the game and he can’t run a line, can’t pass, can’t kick, isn’t fast and doesn’t have a step.

Kenny is a small forward without much skill and really shouldn’t have made it past Reserves except he has more heart than 99% of the NRL.

Smith came into the squad as a bloke built for big, low intensity minutes and was asked to be Scott Sorenson and so he hurled himself at everything frenetically, played the ball fast and forged himself into an effective impact prop.

Our system is great for sure but the humans we choose to put in it are what makes it truly unique andeverything.


enduring.


You could say the same about Bizza, how he outleaps blokes 5 or 6 inches taller than he is.

Some of it is the pure grit and determination that comes from having to fight for everything. Ivan explains it well in this interview.

 
Messages
4,289
Yeah exactly right. The club has hand picked the squad for this attribute over all others. Most of the guys we keep and back, of all the talented kids that come through, are those that have ridiculous work ethic, brilliant attitude and insatiable hunger. They’re the guys that knocked back $400K at 19 to get a start straightaway at another club.

Turuva came in and was asked to just hurl his tiny frame at the opposition 20 times a game and he just kept coming back. Staines won a premiership on the back of the same resilience to fill a role that didn’t suit him

Cleary is in conversation with Thurston and Johns as the GOAT half despite having a scrap of their talent but the drive of both combined.

Martin is the best edge forward in the game and he can’t run a line, can’t pass, can’t kick, isn’t fast and doesn’t have a step.

Kenny is a small forward without much skill and really shouldn’t have made it past Reserves except he has more heart than 99% of the NRL.

Smith came into the squad as a bloke built for big, low intensity minutes and was asked to be Scott Sorenson and so he hurled himself at everything frenetically, played the ball fast and forged himself into an effective impact prop.

Our system is great for sure but the humans we choose to put in it are what makes it truly unique and enduring.
Nice post but I can't take anyone who thinks JT is some all time great seriously
 

snickers007

Juniors
Messages
1,424
I had an hour to kill yesterday in the sauna, so I re-watched the second half of the GF for the first time.

Here's my thoughts:
- Leniu's first up contact was really poor to start the half. Couple of times he bounced straight off, and then travelled 15m crabbing alongside the tackle trying to grab an arm to assist.
- Cleary didn't deserve the Clive. He kicked one dead, and off that 7 tackle set Brisbane scored. Got burnt defensively on Mam's second, and rushed out of the line badly for Mam's third. Also wasted our challenge on an obvious strip.
- The narrative around the JFH and Leota combo winning 26-0 is wrong. Leota came on after Mam's first. JFH came on after Mam's second. And Leota was off for Cleary's match winner, and the penalty goal in the first half. So JFH was 26-6, and Leota was 18-12.
- Critta came up with all the biggest plays of the game. Massive tackle to force the 6th tackle turnover after Mam's 3rd when they were right on top. Dived on a loose ball in our red-zone, and offloaded to Leota for the counter attack. 2 forced drop-outs. 1 try. There was also another try-saving tackle when he kicked it straight to the Staggs close to their line. He was my MOTM.
- It's incredible that we were able to stop the bleeding when we did. In the 5mins following Mam's third, we lost both Yeo and Sorenson to HIA, burnt our challenge, and they brought Carrigan back on the field.
- Kenny's ball playing is really underrated. The crash-line play to Leota late in the game was absolutely the right play despite it not coming off. And in the match-winning set of 6, Kenny did the dummy-right, pass left 2 tackles before the try.
- Tago, Luai and Martin were all clearly not fit to play.
- Ivan Cleary has showed incredible patience and belief in Lindsay Smith throwing him back in to replace Yeo during his HIA. Would have been easy to leave him off and let him stew in his thoughts after leaking 2 tries - but he didn't. Great leadership.
- The Fox commentators are so much better than Ch9. The level of excitement in the moment was so genuine, and the analysis from Cronk before the comeback is scarily accurate.
 
Messages
421
58th minute, Crichton picked up a loose pass, the Broncos crossed the half way once from a Walsh break, 22 minutes of Cleary/Crichton pinning the Broncos in their own half, up until the 58th min the ch9 commentators were giving the MOM to Haas not Mam.
Anyway its all history.
 

Abacus

Juniors
Messages
2,087
I had an hour to kill yesterday in the sauna, so I re-watched the second half of the GF for the first time.

Here's my thoughts:
- Leniu's first up contact was really poor to start the half. Couple of times he bounced straight off, and then travelled 15m crabbing alongside the tackle trying to grab an arm to assist.
- Cleary didn't deserve the Clive. He kicked one dead, and off that 7 tackle set Brisbane scored. Got burnt defensively on Mam's second, and rushed out of the line badly for Mam's third. Also wasted our challenge on an obvious strip.
- The narrative around the JFH and Leota combo winning 26-0 is wrong. Leota came on after Mam's first. JFH came on after Mam's second. And Leota was off for Cleary's match winner, and the penalty goal in the first half. So JFH was 26-6, and Leota was 18-12.
- Critta came up with all the biggest plays of the game. Massive tackle to force the 6th tackle turnover after Mam's 3rd when they were right on top. Dived on a loose ball in our red-zone, and offloaded to Leota for the counter attack. 2 forced drop-outs. 1 try. There was also another try-saving tackle when he kicked it straight to the Staggs close to their line. He was my MOTM.
- It's incredible that we were able to stop the bleeding when we did. In the 5mins following Mam's third, we lost both Yeo and Sorenson to HIA, burnt our challenge, and they brought Carrigan back on the field.
- Kenny's ball playing is really underrated. The crash-line play to Leota late in the game was absolutely the right play despite it not coming off. And in the match-winning set of 6, Kenny did the dummy-right, pass left 2 tackles before the try.
- Tago, Luai and Martin were all clearly not fit to play.
- Ivan Cleary has showed incredible patience and belief in Lindsay Smith throwing him back in to replace Yeo during his HIA. Would have been easy to leave him off and let him stew in his thoughts after leaking 2 tries - but he didn't. Great leadership.
- The Fox commentators are so much better than Ch9. The level of excitement in the moment was so genuine, and the analysis from Cronk before the comeback is scarily accurate.
I was happy with the call to challenge the strip. It seemed to make the Broncs stop and think about the game rather than just playing on instinct. Just enough to knock them out of the rhythm they were in and give us a chance to regroup. I'm probably reading too much into it but we definitely needed something to stop their roll.
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,838
I had an hour to kill yesterday in the sauna, so I re-watched the second half of the GF for the first time.

Here's my thoughts:
- Leniu's first up contact was really poor to start the half. Couple of times he bounced straight off, and then travelled 15m crabbing alongside the tackle trying to grab an arm to assist.
- Cleary didn't deserve the Clive. He kicked one dead, and off that 7 tackle set Brisbane scored. Got burnt defensively on Mam's second, and rushed out of the line badly for Mam's third. Also wasted our challenge on an obvious strip.
- The narrative around the JFH and Leota combo winning 26-0 is wrong. Leota came on after Mam's first. JFH came on after Mam's second. And Leota was off for Cleary's match winner, and the penalty goal in the first half. So JFH was 26-6, and Leota was 18-12.
- Critta came up with all the biggest plays of the game. Massive tackle to force the 6th tackle turnover after Mam's 3rd when they were right on top. Dived on a loose ball in our red-zone, and offloaded to Leota for the counter attack. 2 forced drop-outs. 1 try. There was also another try-saving tackle when he kicked it straight to the Staggs close to their line. He was my MOTM.
- It's incredible that we were able to stop the bleeding when we did. In the 5mins following Mam's third, we lost both Yeo and Sorenson to HIA, burnt our challenge, and they brought Carrigan back on the field.
- Kenny's ball playing is really underrated. The crash-line play to Leota late in the game was absolutely the right play despite it not coming off. And in the match-winning set of 6, Kenny did the dummy-right, pass left 2 tackles before the try.
- Tago, Luai and Martin were all clearly not fit to play.
- Ivan Cleary has showed incredible patience and belief in Lindsay Smith throwing him back in to replace Yeo during his HIA. Would have been easy to leave him off and let him stew in his thoughts after leaking 2 tries - but he didn't. Great leadership.
- The Fox commentators are so much better than Ch9. The level of excitement in the moment was so genuine, and the analysis from Cronk before the comeback is scarily accurate.
Critta came up with all the biggest plays!! Stephen, you are at the Dogs now, just let it go and count your cash.....

It should be noted in your analysis that Cleary played most of the game with a bad knee injury inflicted on him by Haas and which resulted in a suspension (too light) for Haas. An injury that has required a knee brace for a month and ruled him out of playing for Australia. His mobility was affected, which is why he missed Mam so easily and looked tentative laterally.

You have missed the point of the JFH, Leota debate. It is about the points scored against us. We don't need them on the field to score. They set up the defensive pressure that stops team advancing.

JFH and Leota were off when Flegler (didn't) scored.
Mam try 1 - Leota and JFH both off
Mam try 2 - JFH off
Mam try 3 - both on. It should be noted though that JFH had been on the field 48 seconds when this try was scored. He barely had time to get in position.

18 points were scored against us and 12 of them when both were off the field. Six points were scored before JFH had time to get involved in the game. Correlation doesn't prove causation, but add in what your eyes can see when they are both on the field and throw in the recent battering the two of them gave Australia (Haas again, a great athlete. Not sure you want him in the trenches though) and a pattern emerges. The pattern does not involve Critta, just so we are clear.

I agree about players not being fit. Tago and Luai were a shadow of what they can be when fit.

Critta had a fantastic game. But no 40/20 he doesn't get down the field to make his line dropout play. No pass from Cleary, he doesn't get to score.
 

Pjf04b

Juniors
Messages
317
To me Critts was the MOM and deserved the medal. Clearly was great for the last 20 but without Critts it wouldn't have won the game, with a special mention to Suni!
 

Fangs

Coach
Messages
10,929
His first CCM was questionable. Not to say he wasn't worthy of it but it definitely felt like a handout 'give it to the 7' decision to me.

2023 was undeniable. Reminded me of old mate James Maloney. Plenty of poor moments from Cleary that night but when it mattered he made massive plays to win us the game.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,208
His first CCM was questionable. Not to say he wasn't worthy of it but it definitely felt like a handout 'give it to the 7' decision to me.

2023 was undeniable. Reminded me of old mate James Maloney. Plenty of poor moments from Cleary that night but when it mattered he made massive plays to win us the game.
People need to watch 2021 again if they think it was a gift CCM. Nathans kicking that night was up there with best I've ever seen. Most of the side was held together with sticky tape and he kept Souffs pinned in there own end most of the game. It was a poor miss for Choadys try, but that was the only blemish I recall. Even a 90% kicking game and we lose that night imo, our attack was busted and the few times Souths got field position they scored. It was 5 star.
 

Whino

Bench
Messages
3,199
Cleary deserved the CC. But, if we didn't have Crichton we lose. Same deal if we were without Leota or Fish.

Equally important was Cogger’s cameo. It was match turning. He observed from the sidelines and simplified the attack.

As always with close games. Each little thing stands out.
 
Messages
2,557
People need to watch 2021 again if they think it was a gift CCM. Nathans kicking that night was up there with best I've ever seen. Most of the side was held together with sticky tape and he kept Souffs pinned in there own end most of the game. It was a poor miss for Choadys try, but that was the only blemish I recall. Even a 90% kicking game and we lose that night imo, our attack was busted and the few times Souths got field position they scored. It was 5 star.
^^This, This, and THIS^^
 

Fangs

Coach
Messages
10,929
People need to watch 2021 again if they think it was a gift CCM. Nathans kicking that night was up there with best I've ever seen. Most of the side was held together with sticky tape and he kept Souffs pinned in there own end most of the game. It was a poor miss for Choadys try, but that was the only blemish I recall. Even a 90% kicking game and we lose that night imo, our attack was busted and the few times Souths got field position they scored. It was 5 star.

I'll give it some more time later.

Handout is a strong word and would imply he didn't deserve it so I can't use it in the same sentence. But Kikau, Crichton and Edwards were all excellent that night. Unlike 2023 it wasn't clear who was the VIP on the field and when in doubt the points almost always go to the halfback.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,208
I'll give it some more time later.

Handout is a strong word and would imply he didn't deserve it so I can't use it in the same sentence. But Kikau, Crichton and Edwards were all excellent that night. Unlike 2023 it wasn't clear who was the VIP on the field and when in doubt the points almost always go to the halfback.
I'm not discounting the efforts of others, not for a second. Critta's intercept was perfection, he read it brilliantly. Edwards was relentless, even more impressive given his injuries. They weren't alone either, just imo Nathan was a cut above and a clear winner.

Usually the attacking moments take the glory as it was this year, 2021 wasn't that kind of game though, in a grind like that was Cleary was pretty much perfect.
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,838
I had an hour to kill yesterday in the sauna, so I re-watched the second half of the GF for the first time.

Here's my thoughts:
- Leniu's first up contact was really poor to start the half. Couple of times he bounced straight off, and then travelled 15m crabbing alongside the tackle trying to grab an arm to assist.
- Cleary didn't deserve the Clive. He kicked one dead, and off that 7 tackle set Brisbane scored. Got burnt defensively on Mam's second, and rushed out of the line badly for Mam's third. Also wasted our challenge on an obvious strip.
- The narrative around the JFH and Leota combo winning 26-0 is wrong. Leota came on after Mam's first. JFH came on after Mam's second. And Leota was off for Cleary's match winner, and the penalty goal in the first half. So JFH was 26-6, and Leota was 18-12.
- Critta came up with all the biggest plays of the game. Massive tackle to force the 6th tackle turnover after Mam's 3rd when they were right on top. Dived on a loose ball in our red-zone, and offloaded to Leota for the counter attack. 2 forced drop-outs. 1 try. There was also another try-saving tackle when he kicked it straight to the Staggs close to their line. He was my MOTM.
- It's incredible that we were able to stop the bleeding when we did. In the 5mins following Mam's third, we lost both Yeo and Sorenson to HIA, burnt our challenge, and they brought Carrigan back on the field.
- Kenny's ball playing is really underrated. The crash-line play to Leota late in the game was absolutely the right play despite it not coming off. And in the match-winning set of 6, Kenny did the dummy-right, pass left 2 tackles before the try.
- Tago, Luai and Martin were all clearly not fit to play.
- Ivan Cleary has showed incredible patience and belief in Lindsay Smith throwing him back in to replace Yeo during his HIA. Would have been easy to leave him off and let him stew in his thoughts after leaking 2 tries - but he didn't. Great leadership.
- The Fox commentators are so much better than Ch9. The level of excitement in the moment was so genuine, and the analysis from Cronk before the comeback is scarily accurate.
Critta came up with all the biggest plays!! Stephen, you are at the Dogs now, just let it go and count your cash.....

It should be noted in your analysis that Cleary played most of the game with a bad knee injury inflicted on him by Haas and which resulted in a suspension (too light) for Haas. An injury that has required a knee brace for a month and ruled him out of playing for Australia. His mobility was affected, which is why he missed Mam so easily and looked tentative laterally.

You have missed the point of the JFH, Leota debate. It is about the points scored against us. We don't need them on the field to score. They set up the defensive pressure that stops team advancing.

JFH and Leota were off when Flegler (didn't) scored.
Mam try 1 - Leota and JFH both off
Mam try 2 - JFH off
Mam try 3 - both on. It should be noted though that JFH had been on the field 48 seconds when this try was scored. He barely had time to get in position.

18 points were scored against us and 12 of them when both were off the field. Six points were scored before JFH had time to get involved in the game. Correlation doesn't prove causation, but add in what your eyes can see when they are both on the field and throw in the recent battering the two of them gave Australia (Haas again, a great athlete. Not sure you want him in the trenches though) and a pattern emerges. The pattern does not involve Critta, just so we are clear.

I agree about players not being fit. Tago and Luai were a shadow of what they can be when fit.

Critta had a fantastic game. But no 40/20 he doesn't get down the field to make his line dropout play. No pass from Cleary, he doesn't get to score.
 

Munky

First Grade
Messages
9,846
Watched the last twenty minutes the other night for the first time either not drunk or really hungover.

From the high shot there was absolutely nothing on for Nathan's final try. The two previous plays were a waste too.

Was his intention with the short side underlap to take on the defence or was he thinking get the ball to Critta?

Him strolling through really shouldn't have happened.
 
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