2nd Test: Australia v India at Sydney Jan 3-7, 2012

[Canard]

Its not even close to a mistake. For you to suggest that you think the Indians can score 650 in the second innings is ludicrous.

Its a good idea to give the opposition a little sniff so they will at least try to play some attacking cricket, make it ridiculous and set them 600+ then they will not even try.

 

[yappy]

You said we should just keep batting and batting.

Clarke has declared to win the match and not played the ultra conservative lets ensure a draw deceleration.

I said no such thing. English must be your second language (it's declaration btw). I have consistently said since yesterday that he should be looking at a declaration around the last drinks break of the day to have around an hour at them before stumps and fresh bowlers with a new pill under Friday's cloudy skies. ie 190 overs minimum. If he couldn't get to 400 before that then he would need to think about declaring, but even if he got out he should have batted until at least shortly after tea. So like I said - you have no point.

 

[Canard]

Thanks for pointing out spelling mistakes mate, very helpful to the discussion.

And your point is that its a bad declaration because India has a chance of posting 650? That ridiculous.

To me its just comes across as needlessly hyper critical.

Your "fresh bowlers" thing is ludicrous, the bowlers haven't even set foot on the oval for the last 2 days, how much fresher do you want them to be??

 

[yappy]

Its not even close to a mistake. For you to suggest that you think the Indians can score 650 in the second innings is ludicrous.

Its a good idea to give the opposition a little sniff so they will at least try to play some attacking cricket, make it ridiculous and set them 600+ then they will not even try.

You just have no f**king idea do you. They're not playing for a win. It doesn't matter a pinch of shit how many runs Australia lead by on the first innings in terms of how quickly India bat. India has to bat out at least 6 sessions to save the game. 1, 2, 3, or 4 rpo is pretty irrelevant. It can only matter and make your contention that Clarke needed to declare when he did if Australia bowls out India somewhere between the 190th and 220th over. Only then will runs matter a pinch of shit as it will decide if and how many we have to chase. The odds against it mattering are so astronomically small as to make no odds, but if India can do that they may have a tiny chance of a win. Do it my way and we're at least as likely if not more likely to win, but zero chance of losing.

 

[Canard]

So you reason for declaring it a "mistake" and bad decision is that Australia still have a chance to lose the match?

 

[undertaker]

undertaker, I'd love to know what more you reckon Wade has to do? Killing it with the bat and keeping very tidily. Would clearly improve the side. Nevill would also be an improvement.

Long post disclaimer...

I know that Ponting and Hussey have been under a lot of scrutiny recently. However, barring injury to either player, their performances in the first two tests of this series will definitely assure them of a position in the side until AT LEAST the end of the 2012/13 summer, as there are barely any middle order batsmen in Sheffield Shield that are putting the world on fire. There's a high chance that they'll also play in the 2013 Ashes, as I mentioned in a previous post that the selectors have learnt from last summer that blooding new players and untried combinations in a major tournament doesn't work. Also, Marsh, Khawaja, Hughes have been extremely inconsistent and are still relatively new to test cricket. I can see the selectors persevering with Cowan/Warner as openers, as there's a lot of potential there. Warner just has to calm his nerves and snap out of the T20 mode when he bats in test matches. 2nd test vs NZ in Hobart showed us what he's capable of in the highest form of the game. The top 6 that I can see the selectors leaning towards is:

Cowan, Warner, Clarke (c), Ponting, Hussey, Watson (vc)

Now, to the part in bold which addresses your question...

Regarding wicketkeepers, I would've said Paine was next in line as Haddin's successor (since he has played tests), but given his recent potential career-ending injury, this is a blessing in disguise for Wade. Being the same age as me (which I didn't realise until I looked up his statistics), Wade just has to be patient and more importantly, keep performing well with the bat like Gilchrist was in the late 1990s before he succeeded Ian Healy. It will be a matter of time before the heat is on Haddin, and it certain went up a few degrees after that shocking drop catch towards end of play. The temperature will go up even more if Wade starts performing with the bat. At his peak in the test team, Gilchrist showed how vital it is to have a good batsman at number 7 in a test lineup (the last "recognised" batsman in the lineup before the tail). Haddin always had potential with the bat, but is notorious for throwing his wicket away when the pressure isn't on, but trying an unnecessary shot. His wicketkeeping has been on the decline for the last 12 months. Wade averages about 40 in FC, and if he can get it towards 45, that's very good for a wicketkeeper.

The same could be said for Steve O'Keefe. Easily the best spinner in Sheffield Shield cricket, the only one that averages under 26 I believe. Now, this is not a rebuke towards Nathan Lyon. Lyon has already done a fair bit more and turned the ball a lot more than Nathan Hauritz did in his 2 yrs in the Australian team. However, O'Keefe is definitely the #1 option, and also would be an extremely handy batsman at #8. With Siddle at #9 and Pattinson at #10 (both of whom are capable of scoring runs and occupying the crease for extended periods of time (e.g. Siddle in 2010 SCG test)), that's 10 players in the lineup who are all capable of scoring runs and occupying the crease. The 12 that I would love to see after this summer is:

Cowan, Warner, Clarke (c), Ponting, Hussey, Watson (vc), Wade (wk), O'Keefe, Siddle, Pattinson, Hilfenhaus or Harris as #11 with the other being 12th man.

In form and at full strength and fitness, that is one hell of a side that has the potential to get us back to #1 and also reclaim the Ashes. Clarke needs to go to #3 as the most important batsman in the side. Watson at #6 allows us to maximise his bowling talent (which is something I also address in a previous post). And I also mentioned this earlier, but the omission of Johnson has, to a very large extent, allowed Siddle and Hilfenhaus to build pressure and it's no surprise they have bowled a hell of a lot better this time around than when they were bowling in tandem with Johnson, who alleviated the pressure on opposition sides who reveled in his crapshack bowling.

Btw, thanks for asking me of my opinion. I didn't know whether or not you were being sarcastic or genuinely wanted to know (given all the piddly arguments between members on this thread), but I admit that I'm no "expert" on cricket (like ESPNCricinfo calls ppl like Harsha Bhogle) - I'm just a university student studying Masters degree who's been following the game passionately since 1995 (which is around the same time I started following League as well).

 

[Evenflow]

A magnificent innings by Clarke, would've loved to see him stay on and have a crack at 400 (and Hussey for 200) but can more than understand his reasons why. To be honest i've never really taken to the bloke before he was captain (as most of the Australian public haven't) but even before this knock he slowly but surely changed my perception when he took over the top job and IMO he's just a more likable bloke.

For so long he just seemed like an utter pretentious wanker but for whatever reason, whether it be the real him or just a very good PR machine behind him he just comes across as more down to earth and someone much more likable. Either way i think he's shown some good credentials as captain and i think he'll eventually become a very good one.

As for Haddin i've been somewhat of a fan of his over the last few years, he's shown many times he's got a bit of ticker and will give as good as he can get but f**k me, how many easy pills does he need to drop before he gets the punt? He's done his job admirably since he came in but every keeper has his expiry date and Hads has well and truly reached his. He'll more than likely see this series out but that'll be and should be about it.

At the risk of giving (some) of the numpties around here a coronary but i'm sorry to say but it's time for another Victorian a place in the team :shock:

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

Fast Eddie still trying to troll? :lol:

Michael Clarke, the King of the SCG

 

[simmo1]

Whether the lead is 450 or 650 is completely irrelevant unless you bowl unbelievably badly, but with the possibility of rain tomorrow, I think its the right call.

 

[yappy]

Long and thoughtful post

Good post mate.

Where I disagree:
Wade is already performing with the bat. I ran an analysis and he is already significantly ahead of where Gilchrist was in terms of runs and average after the same number of innings. He's also miles in front of Paine with significantly less <10 scores and more >50 scores. He's also killing it in the Shield this season and has saved Victoria's arse several times coming it at 4/sfa. I don't like agreeing with Evenflow but it's time to get another Victorian into the team.

Clarke is a No.5 and that is where he should stay. He averages about 60 at 5 and 28 at 4. It was fine for Steve Waugh to captain the side from 5, and so the same should be for Pup. It would be crazy to weaken a strength to try (with a fairly high chance of failure going on his record) to strengthen a weakness. Someone else will have to step up and make 3 their own. Watson should probably be tried there when he comes back seeing as Punter is now a lock for some time to come. (Ponting back to 3 and Watson 4 might work too).

Agree on O'Keefe but he's probably relying on Lyon to get an injury to get a chance. That's some time off probably.

Pattinson has the technique to be a very good No.8 one day. Should be batting above Siddle soonish.

Hazelwood is a gun he should get a shot in the next 12 months. Starc and especially Johnson should never be anywhere near the side. Also you forgot Cummins. If fit they'd be close to the top three with Pattinson come 2013, which says a bit seeing as how well Siddle and Hilf are going since Johnson got injured and Billy focused their minds on what matters.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Why? Lyon isn't particulary flash.

 

[roofromoz]

I was surprised at the timing of the declaration, but there is obviously a reason behind it - a combination of the weather, enough runs to play with and a confidence that there is still enough time to get the 10 wickets for a win.

I don't buy into this whole PR move with the timing - mere coincidence. Even if Clarke got out before reaching 300, the timing of the declaration (barring a dramatic collapse to be all out) probably would have been about that time anyway.

None of the above should take away from the sublime performance though. 329 runs is a fantastic performance any day of the week.

 

[Fast Eddie]

I thought Husseys innings was better.

 

[El Diablo]

Why? Lyon isn't particulary flash.

Lyon :arrow: Vettori

 

[Fast Eddie]

Yeahsurewhynot.

 

[Mr Angry]

Well I look forward to tomorrow, I hope Indians bat well, I would be happy for Sachin to get 100, look forward to seeing what Lyon has, nobody knows yet, SCG day 4, Indians ok with spin.

I would be happy to see it hit the 5th day, with Warner or Clarke hitting the winning runs being home town guys.

 

[undertaker]

Wade is already performing with the bat. I ran an analysis and he is already significantly ahead of where Gilchrist was in terms of runs and average after the same number of innings. He's also miles in front of Paine with significantly less <10 scores and more >50 scores. He's also killing it in the Shield this season and has saved Victoria's arse several times coming it at 4/sfa. I don't like agreeing with Evenflow but it's time to get another Victorian into the team.

Thanks for notifying me about this. I know that Wade is performing well, but wasn't aware of exactly how well he was going since I don't follow Sheffield Shield cricket with the same level of intensity as I do with international cricket. Lack of coverage given to Shield cricket is largely attributed to this (the final used to get good media coverage back in the '90s - some of them were televised, such as Queensland's famous win in 94/95 and more famously, South Australia's 10th wicket partnership holding out Western Australia in the last hour of the match the following year. I distinctly remember both of these matches, even though I was relatively new to the game and didn't start "actively" following it until the 95/96 summer).

I used to watch the ODD comp regularly (then known as the Mercantile Mutual Cup/ING Cup) when Ch9 broadcasted it on the weekends to see who are up and coming stars were, and it was very well supported and got good crowds in the '90s/early 00's. Venues like North Sydney Oval, WACA sold out and even a match at ANZ Stadium got over 20,000. Also, most of the Australian players also played in it when their international matches didn't clash with the state games - something you rarely see today as cricketers play a lot more games these days and most are only worried with their fat paychecks and appearing in many ads/magazines as possible. Their was an article about this in the Sunday magazine not so long ago, about how a lot of Australian fans feel "seperated" from the players and felt they couldn't identify with the players like they used to in the past. This trend started to emanate during Ricky Ponting's tenure as captain, but is a discussion for another time.

A bit off topic here...

Since Fox took over and rebranded the ODD comp the Ford Ranger Cup/Ryobi Cup, it looks like the interest has diminished very rapidly and the T20 Big Bash has taken precedence over it. Very sad. It's a shame that most ppl don't give a stuff about the state games, and why it's become a lot harder for state players to make a name for themselves. Don't mean to be a sadist, but I do hope the Big Bash flops as I don't think this is going to be good for Australian cricket in the long-run (e.g. look at what's happened with India since the IPL commenced? No more than a man and his two dogs at test matches over there). The worst thing about the Big Bash is that Sheffield Shield, the only form of first-class cricket at state level, is put on hold for nearly 2 months to accommodate this Mickey Mouse tournament (plastering teams with no history or tradition) that has relied very heavily on ex- (most notably, Shane Warne) and international players to promote the tournament. The fact that every player will become free agent after this tournament, meaning they can essentially jump from one team to another, makes the whole concept a farce and reinforces the concept of "plastering" and "no tradition". The city-centric attitude, personified by 2 teams in Melbourne and Sydney, has turned off the vast majority of cricket fans in the regional areas. The 2nd teams in Melbourne and Sydney should've been replaced with teams in either Canberra (Manuka Oval), Newcastle (no.1 sports ground), Gold Coast (Metricon Stadium), Launceston (Aurora Stadium) etc. (you get what I mean). The comp could've salvaged some respectibility in my eyes if they had done that.

Big Bash executives are going to be in big trouble once Warne and the other lower-profiled ex-players (Hayden, MacGill, Hogg) discontinue, and they also struggle to attract quality international players. Geoff Boycott, a very outspoken cricket commentator that most of you are familiar with, made reference to this in an interview on CNN that I saw on YouTube. He said that Twenty20 will only be popular as long as the reputable names are playing, and not a team full of no-names with the surnames Jones, Smith etc. (metaphorically speaking). But, the more interesting point Boycott raised is that those reputable names achieved the status they are now at because they made their name in TEST cricket.


I think that's enough of my ranting...

 

[hineyrulz]

I've been a Haddin fan for for a long time but FFS he has to go, that miss should be the final straw. Wade should be in ASAP, but won't because little golden boy Paine is the chosen one. They will happily wait for the most overated cricketer in Australia to be fit before they give a guy like Wade a go :crazy: So they will keep Haddin around till then, absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Haddin seems like too good mates with Hussey, Clarke, Ponting etc to be dropped.

 

[undertaker]

This was the interview I was referring to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDtBe6LunZ4&feature=related