2nd Test - Australia v New Zealand Hobart Dec 9 - Dec 13 2011

[BunniesMan]

Maybe you should learn to stop acting like you're an expert on everything and you know it all

I never said I was an expert. I'm giving my opinion like every single other person here. No more no less.

 

[Bazal]

Play abandoned....sucks for Hughes and Warner

 

[typicalfan]

Play abandoned....sucks for Hughes and Warner

Probably a good thing, no point coming out for 30 mins or so, not much to gain, a lot to lose. Not a good thing from a weekend point of view though.

 

[yappy]

I don't think anyone is saying Gilchrist was shit...he was a genuine international standard keeper. Healy was just a lot better

A lot? Like so much better that he averaged a dismissal per match more than Gilly? I would agree to call that a lot.

Such a shame then that it's Gilly that averages a dismissal per match more than Healy. Gilly took 21 more dismissals in 23 fewer tests than Healy. 416 in 96 matches (4.33 w/m) against 395 in 119 matches (3.32 w/m). Those numbers are just ridiculously good. On a W/I basis Gilchrist smokes every other keeper with more than 20 tests. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;keeper=1;orderby=dismissals_per_inns;qualmin1=21;qualval1=matches;template=results;type=fielding Guys rated as greats such as Healy and Knott are a loooong way down the list.

Now obviously those stats don't tell the whole story and issues of bowlers, opposition batsmen, dismissals/chances, byes conceded etc all come into it. But the idea that Healy was a LOT better than Gilly is frankly rubbish. Rose coloured glasses about how good Healy was and unfairly marking down Gilchrist's glovework due to some idea that he was only selected for his batting. Gilchrist was THE most complete wicket keeper batsman ever. Great behind the stumps and devastating with the bat. He stands in no man's shadow.

 

[Hallatia]

Not happening. I'm betting the day is over

it is, tragedy. Australia will still win easily though

 

[BunniesMan]

Only "late" showers forecast tomorrow. Hopefully the sun is out in the morning and we win the match before those showers.

Would love to a) win and b) have Warner and Hughes carry their bat. They've earnt that after batting well to see off the new ball. (the last bit is a figure of speech because the damn sheepshaggers keep getting newer balls).

 

[Bazal]

A lot? Like so much better that he averaged a dismissal per match more than Gilly? I would agree to call that a lot.

Such a shame then that it's Gilly that averages a dismissal per match more than Healy. Gilly took 21 more dismissals in 23 fewer tests than Healy. 416 in 96 matches (4.33 w/m) against 395 in 119 matches (3.32 w/m). Those numbers are just ridiculously good. On a W/I basis Gilchrist smokes every other keeper with more than 20 tests. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...alval1=matches;template=results;type=fielding Guys rated as greats such as Healy and Knott are a loooong way down the list.

Now obviously those stats don't tell the whole story and issues of bowlers, opposition batsmen, dismissals/chances, byes conceded etc all come into it. But the idea that Healy was a LOT better than Gilly is frankly rubbish. Rose coloured glasses about how good Healy was and unfairly marking down Gilchrist's glovework due to some idea that he was only selected for his batting. Gilchrist was THE most complete wicket keeper batsman ever. Great behind the stumps and devastating with the bat. He stands in no man's shadow.

I am not even talking about Gilly's batting, it doesn't come into it when you're talking about keepers. Batting is an added bonus. He was a good keeper who kept to some of the best bowlers ever for his whole career bar the very end. Healy was a great keeper who kept to some very, very average bowlers. The dismissals stat is irrelevant because there is only so much a wicket keeper can do to create a wicket. Throw whatever stats you like out there, I just don't rate Gilly as anything more than a good, test level keeper who was a fantastic batsman on his day. I base that on watching both of them play over almost their whole careers, not on anything else.

 

[typicalfan]

Ill never forget the day Gilchrist piled 149 off bowlers like Akram, Younis, Akhtar and Saqlain in his second test ever.

I don't think it is a matter of Keepers batting being a bonus anymore. A keeper has to be able to bat (Take Reece Young) as a player who is a specialist keeper. Or Matt Prior being selected ahead of Chris Read and a multitude of better specialist keepers.

Having a competent keeper who can score runs is a must have ingredient. Gilchrist happened to be a competent keeper and an outstanding batsman.

 

[hineyrulz]

Just read this thread, LMFAO @ BunniesTard, Get a clue you feral spastic. Benaud ahead of Grimmet and O'Reily??? LOL I'll take my Pops opinion over yours and he reckoned he wasn't half the bowler they were. Rated him as a captain and his batting and feilding were good but his bowling wasn't anywhere near their class.

Miller should be the 3rd player picked in an all time side behind the Don and Warnie, his stats were oustanding and even better when you consider the way he played. Healy was the best keeper i have seen but Gilly was so good he has to get the nod.

My all time Aussie team

Leaving out AB and Waugh was tough Healy also unlucky but for the balance of my side Gilly @ 6 and Miller 7 gives the team so much more options.



1. Ponsford
2 Morris (Haydens last few yrs cost him IMO.)
3. Bradman
4. Ponting
5.Chappell - He just beats my two all time favs in AB and Tugger
6. Gilly
7. Miller
8. Warne
9. Lilliee
10. O'Reily
11. McGrath

That side has it all the pace of DK and Miller, the accuracy of McGrath and the two greatest Leggies of all times. Both totally different bowlers but amazing. With Gilly in the side 5 bowlers become an option so Healy misses out. Grimmett,Lindwall,Davsion all unlucky as well.

 

[yappy]

I am not even talking about Gilly's batting, it doesn't come into it when you're talking about keepers. Batting is an added bonus. He was a good keeper who kept to some of the best bowlers ever for his whole career bar the very end. Healy was a great keeper who kept to some very, very average bowlers. The dismissals stat is irrelevant because there is only so much a wicket keeper can do to create a wicket. Throw whatever stats you like out there, I just don't rate Gilly as anything more than a good, test level keeper who was a fantastic batsman on his day. I base that on watching both of them play over almost their whole careers, not on anything else.

Look that's fair enough, I'm not basing it on stats either. I only found out how far ahead Gilly was by running the guru. I was basing my opinion on watching them both through their entire careers (and also comparing to the last half of Marsh's). On that basis I call bullshit on anyone who rates Healy a LOT better than Gilly. Healy had to start out with a fairly weak side, but he ended up playing a lot of tests with his fair share of very good bowlers. McGrath played in almost half of Healy's tests and Warne played more tests with Healy (74) than with Gilly (70). Guys like McDermott, Hughes and Alderman we're exactly duffers either.

You don't rate Gilly as anything more than good, ok that's your opinion. Opinions of course are like arseholes. If you only rate Gilly as just good then your opinion ain't worth much.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

If only bunniesman knew as much about cricket as sucking c**k, he'd be an expert.

I'm no fan of Hayden but he'd be in my best ever XI over the likes of Woodfull, Simpson and Slater. Ponting is in the side at 4 because Bradman is 3 and ponting at his best was too good to be as low as 5. Benuad doesn't get a run, absolutely lunacy to suggest otherwise. Gilchrist has to wear the gloves, Healy was excellent but Gilchrist did the job keeping to warne, that's good enough for me, plus he's twice the batsmen heals was.

Hayden
Ponsford
Bradman
Ponting
Border
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
O'Reilly
Lillee
McGrath

O'Reilly was a leggie who bowled at medium pace and he and Bradman did not get along, yet Bradman still rated him the best he'd faced. Miller is a must. Border had the guts of Steve Waugh and carried the side for 5 years.


As for the current test - the fact that we look like winning 2-0 does not fill me with any confidence. We're playing NZ FFS, number 8 in the world and away from home shabby at best. When I compare sides I like to look at the two teams and ask myself who from the opposition would make it into Australia's XI. At the start of the series I would have said only Vettori and McCullum with Taylor a maybe. At the end of the tour I say only Chris Martin would get a spot. McCullum has been poor and is not a test opener, Lion has bowled well and Vettori is in decline.

 

[Hallatia]

If only bunniesman knew as much about cricket as sucking c**k, he'd be an expert.

I don't understand why people still read his posts

 

[typicalfan]

Just read this thread, LMFAO @ BunniesTard, Get a clue you feral spastic. Benaud ahead of Grimmet and O'Reily??? LOL I'll take my Pops opinion over yours and he reckoned he wasn't half the bowler they were. Rated him as a captain and his batting and feilding were good but his bowling wasn't anywhere near their class.

Miller should be the 3rd player picked in an all time side behind the Don and Warnie, his stats were oustanding and even better when you consider the way he played. Healy was the best keeper i have seen but Gilly was so good he has to get the nod.

My all time Aussie team

Leaving out AB and Waugh was tough Healy also unlucky but for the balance of my side Gilly @ 6 and Miller 7 gives the team so much more options.



1. Ponsford
2 Morris (Haydens last few yrs cost him IMO.)
3. Bradman
4. Ponting
5.Chappell - He just beats my two all time favs in AB and Tugger
6. Gilly
7. Miller
8. Warne
9. Lilliee
10. O'Reily
11. McGrath

That side has it all the pace of DK and Miller, the accuracy of McGrath and the two greatest Leggies of all times. Both totally different bowlers but amazing. With Gilly in the side 5 bowlers become an option so Healy misses out. Grimmett,Lindwall,Davsion all unlucky as well.

Exactly. Benaud was good, but O'Reilly was just another level or two above. He average under 17 in FC cricket....17!!!!!

A lot of the comparisons to Benaud and Warne come from the fact that Benaud was really the last world class leg spinner we had until Warne arrived.

Thing is you could move players around in an Aussie XI and you could swap players who are seemingly similarly talented. But why waste a spot for a second keeper lol. Ponting, Chappell you sit on the bench, but Healy come on over. :sarcasm:

 

[Bazal]

Why not? I'll have a go

1-Mark Taylor...Hayden was a flat track bully, and I haven't seen anyone as good as Tubbs in his prime. I'm loathe to name players I don't know anything about. There are probably better
2-Sid Barnes...The Don rated him as one of the most talented bats he'd seen, that's good enough for me, despite never seeing him play
3-Sir Don. Self explanatory
4-Allan Border (c)
5-Steve Waugh
6-Ricky Ponting
7-Keith Miller
8-Ian Healy
9-Shane Warne
10-Dennis Lillee
11-Glenn McGrath

It's not that easy, hey?

 

[hineyrulz]

Why not? I'll have a go

1-Mark Taylor...Hayden was a flat track bully, and I haven't seen anyone as good as Tubbs in his prime. I'm loathe to name players I don't know anything about. There are probably better
2-Sid Barnes...The Don rated him as one of the most talented bats he'd seen, that's good enough for me, despite never seeing him play
3-Sir Don. Self explanatory
4-Allan Border (c)
5-Steve Waugh
6-Ricky Ponting
7-Keith Miller
8-Ian Healy
9-Shane Warne
10-Dennis Lillee
11-Glenn McGrath

It's not that easy, hey?

Sid Barnes was my Pops favourite player of all time, he lost 8 years due to the war he was a young 21 yr old on the 38 tour and broke his leg on the boat. Only played the last test, i have no doubt had he had the chance to play more for Australia he would have been in our best ever XI.

 

[typicalfan]

Taylor was good but many in front of him imo. Hayden did set a large platform in FC cricket amassing a huge amount of runs. I think the flat track bully stuff isn't quite accurate. Had one of the best off drives for a left hander.

Having said that Hayden wasn't a lock, but I wanted an imposer.

 

[Bazal]

Opener is especially hard to pick I reckon....we've had a lot of very good but not great ones in recent times (Taylor had that horrid form slump, Hayden and Langer had some of the flattest pitches ever, even Slater was a great player on his day) and I haven't seen anyone much earlier than that. Like I said, Taylor was the best I saw hence he is there, I can easily accept there will probably be better that I didn't see play

 

[beads6]

My all time Aussie team

Leaving out AB and Waugh was tough Healy also unlucky but for the balance of my side Gilly @ 6 and Miller 7 gives the team so much more options.



1. Ponsford
2 Morris (Haydens last few yrs cost him IMO.)
3. Bradman
4. Ponting
5.Chappell - He just beats my two all time favs in AB and Tugger
6. Gilly
7. Miller
8. Warne
9. Lilliee
10. O'Reily
11. McGrath

.

I'd say you're on the money with that side, 3 or 4 spots in the side really are decided by flip of the coin.

 

[hineyrulz]

Trumper
Macartney
Woodfull
Ponsford
Morris
Barnes
Simpson
Lawry
Taylor
Slater
Hayden
Langer

We've been pretty lucky with openers over the years.

It is a hard job picking the best out of that lot.

 

[typicalfan]

Trumper
Macartney
Woodfull
Ponsford
Morris
Barnes
Simpson
Lawry
Taylor
Slater
Hayden
Langer

We've been pretty lucky with openers over the years.

It is a hard job picking the best out of that lot.

You might be best off going for a tried combination like Slater, Taylor or Langer, Hayden, or Simpson, Lawry. Then again it just comes down to personal preference and what you want from your openers.