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A Draft?

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Yeah not a fan. Clubs should be able to keep the juniors they put a lot of money into developing instead of seeing them going to another, struggling club, at just 19 or 20.
 

ratsack2

Juniors
Messages
1,830
I think the only one to beefit from te draft was te Sharks, we got a rampaging Les Davidson from souths.

It works in AFL cause the players see the value of it and the benefit for the games, too many league players are selfish and greedy to boot. hence the debacle at the storm.
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,689
Yeah not a fan. Clubs should be able to keep the juniors they put a lot of money into developing instead of seeing them going to another, struggling club, at just 19 or 20.

With a proper draft system clubs DONT DEVELOP THE PLAYERS. That's the whole point.

Players are developed by proper junior development programmes in places such as colleges (where players also get an education) and schools. They get academic lessons but have a strong focus on the sports element.

This also allows clubs to free up funds for their first, reserve and under 21 sides and it means it's easier for the clubs to be profitable.

Drafts are an excellent idea and done properly can really benefit a competition, but as someone pointed out the draft in the NRL was challenged as a restriction of trade when Terry Hill wanted to play for Manly.

It would take a person with a proper background in law to explain if only the type of draft we had before is deemed illegal or if ALL draft systems are deemed that way.

Drafts can work well hand in hand with salary caps as clubs can offload more expensive players to weaker clubs in exchange for earlier draft choices than they'd normally get. That way established players go to weaker clubs and youngsters get bloodied into successful clubs.

People point to clubs developing their juniors as being a great alternative to drafts, but junior development programmes benefit those clubs where there are large numbers of young players playing the code.

Newcastle, Brisbane, Penrith & Souths for example should have a large advantage over say Melbourne, Cronulla, Sydney & Manly in that regard, so junior development does leave an uneven playing field in some cases.

That's why it's so important to have a good scouting system in place. After all, nothing stops clubs signing kids from say Queensland to play in Melbourne or kids from NZ to play for Canterbury or Sydney etc.
 

seanoff

Juniors
Messages
1,207
AFL clubs are completely divorced from the lower leagues. AFL clubs have no function in junior development, they are AFL clubs, they play in the AFL that is their sole function. players are required to attend schools etc but Carlton or Collingwood play in the AFL.

junior development is the preserve of the AFL and the state leagues and is funded by the AFL and the state leagues. WCE, Freo, Adel and Port are owned by the state leagues and their profits go back into junior development in those states. but apart from their profits those teams do nothing in junior development bar what AFL players are contracted to do.

IMO the NRL teams need to be stand alone entities. They need to be totally divorced from junior development and it needs to be handed to the head body. there is too much duplication in roles and too little central co-ordination of juniors etc. + demographics don't allow for eveness in juniors.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
With a proper draft system clubs DONT DEVELOP THE PLAYERS. That's the whole point.

Players are developed by proper junior development programmes in places such as colleges (where players also get an education) and schools. They get academic lessons but have a strong focus on the sports element.

This also allows clubs to free up funds for their first, reserve and under 21 sides and it means it's easier for the clubs to be profitable.

Drafts are an excellent idea and done properly can really benefit a competition, but as someone pointed out the draft in the NRL was challenged as a restriction of trade when Terry Hill wanted to play for Manly.

It would take a person with a proper background in law to explain if only the type of draft we had before is deemed illegal or if ALL draft systems are deemed that way.

Drafts can work well hand in hand with salary caps as clubs can offload more expensive players to weaker clubs in exchange for earlier draft choices than they'd normally get. That way established players go to weaker clubs and youngsters get bloodied into successful clubs.

People point to clubs developing their juniors as being a great alternative to drafts, but junior development programmes benefit those clubs where there are large numbers of young players playing the code.

Newcastle, Brisbane, Penrith & Souths for example should have a large advantage over say Melbourne, Cronulla, Sydney & Manly in that regard, so junior development does leave an uneven playing field in some cases.

That's why it's so important to have a good scouting system in place. After all, nothing stops clubs signing kids from say Queensland to play in Melbourne or kids from NZ to play for Canterbury or Sydney etc.


Yeah of course a Roosters supporter is going to say this.... A draft benefits your club which has no junior base, but disadvantages every other. Clubs can still scout elsewher for junior talent, that's their option. They shouldn't be handed it on a platter though. If clubs use their initiative in their local area to promote the game and promote kids into the game they should not be punished for doing something for the overall good of rugby league.
 

Perth Tiger

Bench
Messages
3,218
IMO Drafts don't work in comps/sports where the draftee has options.

They don't work in soccer or Rugby League because if a player dosen't like where he is drafted, they can go to a different comp, ie from EPL to Spain, Italy or wherever in soccer or to the ESL or Rugby Union in RL.

In AFL or the USA comps, if you want to reach the top of the respective sports, you have to go through the draft.
 

The Tank

Bench
Messages
4,562
People point to clubs developing their juniors as being a great alternative to drafts, but junior development programmes benefit those clubs where there are large numbers of young players playing the code.

Newcastle, Brisbane, Penrith & Souths for example should have a large advantage over say Melbourne, Cronulla, Sydney & Manly in that regard, so junior development does leave an uneven playing field in some cases.

Not really, Melbourne have proved it. They would have to be the most disadvantaged when it comes to juniors but they've proved if you put in the hard yards you can develop world class players.

I'd much rather Penrith juniors playing for my club than siphoning them out to help clubs that just can't be arsed to do the work.
 

ozjet1

Guest
Messages
841
IMO Drafts don't work in comps/sports where the draftee has options.

They don't work in soccer or Rugby League because if a player dosen't like where he is drafted, they can go to a different comp, ie from EPL to Spain, Italy or wherever in soccer or to the ESL or Rugby Union in RL.

In AFL or the USA comps, if you want to reach the top of the respective sports, you have to go through the draft.

very good point.

and as seanoff indicated (and Lambretta indirectly eluded to), the draft cant work in rugby league in australia as the clubs run junior leagues and development. implementing the draft as a distribution system for new players (i stress that it should only be used for new players entering the league, unlike the AFL recruiting system) would need a total overhaul of junior development, leagues and pathways.

and from memory, Hill was a Souths jnr who wanted to play under Warren Ryan at Wests, but was selected by Easts in the draft. he challenged it and brought it down. Interesting here that the player who challenged the draft did it not to play for the senior club of his junior district, but to play at a totally different club.
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,520
Yeah of course a Roosters supporter is going to say this.... A draft benefits your club which has no junior base, but disadvantages every other. Clubs can still scout elsewher for junior talent, that's their option. They shouldn't be handed it on a platter though. If clubs use their initiative in their local area to promote the game and promote kids into the game they should not be punished for doing something for the overall good of rugby league.

With a proper draft system clubs DONT DEVELOP THE PLAYERS. That's the whole point.

Players are developed by proper junior development programmes in places such as colleges (where players also get an education) and schools. They get academic lessons but have a strong focus on the sports element.

This also allows clubs to free up funds for their first, reserve and under 21 sides and it means it's easier for the clubs to be profitable.

Drafts are an excellent idea and done properly can really benefit a competition, but as someone pointed out the draft in the NRL was challenged as a restriction of trade when Terry Hill wanted to play for Manly.

It would take a person with a proper background in law to explain if only the type of draft we had before is deemed illegal or if ALL draft systems are deemed that way.

Drafts can work well hand in hand with salary caps as clubs can offload more expensive players to weaker clubs in exchange for earlier draft choices than they'd normally get. That way established players go to weaker clubs and youngsters get bloodied into successful clubs.

People point to clubs developing their juniors as being a great alternative to drafts, but junior development programmes benefit those clubs where there are large numbers of young players playing the code.

Newcastle, Brisbane, Penrith & Souths for example should have a large advantage over say Melbourne, Cronulla, Sydney & Manly in that regard, so junior development does leave an uneven playing field in some cases.

That's why it's so important to have a good scouting system in place. After all, nothing stops clubs signing kids from say Queensland to play in Melbourne or kids from NZ to play for Canterbury or Sydney etc.


Thats why we should have a draft. It works great

IMO Drafts don't work in comps/sports where the draftee has options.

They don't work in soccer or Rugby League because if a player dosen't like where he is drafted, they can go to a different comp, ie from EPL to Spain, Italy or wherever in soccer or to the ESL or Rugby Union in RL.

In AFL or the USA comps, if you want to reach the top of the respective sports, you have to go through the draft.


This is why we shouldnt. It just wont work for us like it should.
 
Messages
3,859
The NRL at the moment promote clubs developing their own junior talent and say kids who grow up in an area and support a team can go to that team. Then if a club develops these juniors successfully they have to offload them as it's impossible to keep the talent under the salary cap.
 

ozjet1

Guest
Messages
841
The NRL at the moment promote clubs developing their own junior talent and say kids who grow up in an area and support a team can go to that team. Then if a club develops these juniors successfully they have to offload them as it's impossible to keep the talent under the salary cap.

yep, the system of developing players through a clubs junior leagues, and then losing them because of the draft is self-defeating.

the salary cap does punish clubs who have good junior development. but the overall objective of the cap is to spread the talent at the elite level so every club has the opportunity to be competitive.

the salary cap punishes clubs in the AFL too as the majority of players are drafted at 17 or 18 and require up to 5 years (depending on position) of development by the AFL club before they're considered fully-fledged senior players.

in contrast, the NFL generally drafts players who are just about ready-made for the pro comp as they've gone through development pathways totally exclusive of the NFL club, via high shool and college football.
 

taxidriver

Coach
Messages
14,599
Not really, Melbourne have proved it. They would have to be the most disadvantaged when it comes to juniors but they've proved if you put in the hard yards you can develop world class players.

I'd much rather Penrith juniors playing for my club than siphoning them out to help clubs that just can't be arsed to do the work.

you seriously believe that?

paying massive amounts for the best kids in the country isn't development

it's called recruitment
 

Paullyboy

Coach
Messages
10,473
Drafts just benefit clubs who don't do any development work. It's a horrible concept and would fail dismally (even if Hill hadn't challenged it all those years ago)
 

The Tank

Bench
Messages
4,562
you seriously believe that?

paying massive amounts for the best kids in the country isn't development

it's called recruitment

:roll:

You're deluded if you think guys like Smith, Slater, Cronk etc weren't developed by the Storm. If you believe they weren't developed by the Storm, then you're saying no NRL club has ever developed their own players.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
http://www.nrl.com/rlpa-boss-refuse...spx?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

RLPA boss refuses to rule out NRL draft

Steve Jancetic AAP Wed, May 25, 2011 - 6:02 PM

Rugby League Players' Association boss David Garnsey has refused to rule out the possible reintroduction of an NRL player draft, but admits backing a restraint of trade would be a massive step for his organisation.

The idea of a player draft was resurrected by St George Illawarra coach Wayne Bennett on the weekend, the game's most successful mentor claiming its installation would create fairer and more manageable pay scales for players.

The draft was deemed anti-competitive by the High Court in 1991 when former Test centre Terry Hill challenged the system.

Garnsey - who qualified his comments by claiming he had not yet seen a draft proposal - admitted its return would have to be met with heavy concessions for players.

"A draft of any kind is a restraint of trade and it's been struck down in accord by the players' association in the past," Garnsey told AAP.

"Obviously we are concerned about anything which restrains the freedom of our players to pursue their employment as they should choose.

"However in circumstances where a proposal may have some merit for the competition or for the reasons that Wayne (Bennett) advanced, then it's obviously something we would look at.

"But to put it into place there would need to be a satisfactory (return) for giving up the players' valuable freedoms."

Speaking on ABC radio on Sunday, Bennett suggested the reintroduction of the draft would stop clubs paying large sums of money to stockpile talented juniors.

Bennett called for both an internal and external draft to be implemented, the former controlling the movement of players between clubs and the latter creating a system for bringing new players into the competition.

"We're the only code in the world that operates a salary cap without a draft - it's absolute murder out there, it's bedlam," Bennett said.

"They were designed to work together - the other codes whether it's America or Aussie Rules or whatever, they haven't got it wrong having a draft and a salary cap working together.

"We're paying way, way too much money for kids that can't get the job done for us.

"It impacts on the salary cap and in return the guys that are getting the job done every week are still getting less money than they should be getting.

"If we have a set system where kids come into the game and they get paid a set salary for a couple of seasons, it would be so much more manageable and there would be so many more dollars left for the guys that get the job done on the weekend."

Bennett conceded the NRL would have to come up with something to compensate players for giving up their right to choose which club they want to play for.

All cards could be laid out on the table following the implementation of the long-awaited independent commission to run the game, which is due to take effect some time this year.

Bennett threw up the possibility of establishing a large superannuation pool from which players could benefit at the back end of their careers, while also allowing clubs to hold on to a select number of their juniors so as to retain home-grown talent.

"You might have two players every year that each club could take out of its junior system for the draft," Bennett suggested.

"So instead of drafting five players for example, if you picked up two of your kids you only draft three players and you drop back in the draft."
 

HowHigh

Coach
Messages
12,819
It doesn't seem fair for clubs that put a lot into developing juniors just to lose them in a draft once the player is ready for the NRL.


Mixed opinions on this..
 

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