AFL to launch 2nd sydney team in 2012

[RL1908]

I was just reading one of your articles... http://www.rl1908.com/History/crossbar.htm

And I was wondering what you thought of AFL really being a cross of Rugby and Soccer rules. The no offside rule like in soccer (well you know what I mean when I say no offside rule, no structure like rugby). Even the marking up on the field from that picture of the game, suggests that rugby and soccer both had a similar influence on AFL. Seems they just borrowed rules from both games to create there own.

I think the real answer lies in English folk football. The off-side rules of Rugby School seem to me to be the first attempts to limit the free movement of players that existed in folk football and the first school football in the early 1800s. In that sense, Aust rules (Melb FC 1859), by leaving out all the Rugby School's off-side rules, opted for a more primitive form of football...which is what a lot of their founders say ie. that they wanted a game that was simple to understand. Even today, if you read the Rugby School rules of 1845 they are difficult to quickly understand, particularly in regard to off-side play. (None of this changes my view about the 1858 match being under Rugby School laws).

The unrestricted movement of off-side players and punching the ball in today's AFL is there in the Rugby School rules of 1845.

Rugby School rules 1845. The Melbourne FC laws were written in 1859. The FA (soccer) was 1863. The RFU was 1871. The VFA (Victorian FA) was 1877.

Aust rules claims it is older than soccer (FA 1863) and RFU (1871) as its rules were codified in 1859 at the Melb FC. Yet, there were "football" clubs in England before 1859 who went on to form part of the FA's soccer and RFU's rugby clubs. To me, you have to compare like with like - the first time that football clubs in Melbourne formed a collective body per the FA and RFU was in 1877 under the VFA.

My biggest gripe with Aust football is that it tends to look at its history in isolation. The other codes have (because of the competition between the codes) been aware of each other's development and history, and can see/accept/recognise the commonalities and shared history.

 

[dallymessenger]

Thanks mate. I must be making some impact - I got an email today from a RL fan re this AFL discussion about it http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416870. Apparently I'm "The anti-Australian Football and now discredited author. Credibility = 0". I'd love to read where I've been "discredited" re the 1858 article ( http://www.rl1908.com/blog/afl-hoax.htm ), but can't find it anywhere.

f**k those AFL fans.

if they want to be ignorant of the facts and presume that aussie rules is superior to RL because it was truly an australian indiginous game, thats their problem.

just like when they claim their sport is national and RL is not despite RL killing them on TV and having higher merchandise sales.

the sooner they accept their position as the 2nd strongest football code in this country, the better off well all be

 

[dallymessenger]

I suppose I should join their forum to respond. Someone styled as "huntos" is suggesting the NSWRU c.1908 leased all the major Sydney grounds, so they could then leave them to the use of rugby league and leave Australian rules out in the cold. The notion that RU & RL agreed to do anything in that period beggars belief - they hated each other. Aust rules had ground problems long before the NSWRL was born in 1907. The first NSWRL game (NSW v All Golds) in August 1907 put an Aust rules club game between the Newtown & Sydney clubs on the undercard. Giltinan had plans to merge RL with Aust rules, and met with the VFL in 1908. The bottom line was that both RL & Aust rules were kept off the best/biggest city grounds by the NSWRU leases. RL got the edge over Aust rules to get the next rung of grounds (such as the Showground) because the Sydney Aust rules was still an amateur sport, and didn't attract the crowds that RL did/could (so AR couldn't afford to hire them). Aust rules purchased its own ground at Rosebery in the early 1910s, but stuffed it up itself, and eventually had to sell it.

The SCG Trust (and indeed the NSWRU who held the lease) did allow the Aust rules to play major games on the SCG between 1903 and 1908. From 1908 to 1910, the Trust wanted to hold RL games, but the NSWRU refused to allow it (under its lease it could stop other users of the ground). In 1911, the RL got one game on the SCG on a Thursday public holiday when the Trust found a loophole in the NSWRU lease (it was only good for Saturdays and public holidays if they fell on a Monday).

it would be funny to see the kind of reaction to those facts,

can someone from here who posts on there just use these facts as a reply.

i dont see why a respected RL authour and historian should have to waste too much time with people who dont know anything about their own code.

how funny is that that a RL man knows more about the history of AFL than pretty much most AFL fans.

 

[dallymessenger]

Oh, and I just posted these two, be prepared for another 200 pages of crap :lol:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415074&page=14

those AFL fans are dumb as sh*t.

look what one wrote on there :

There is no denying that rugby league is currently the sport of choice for the majority of people living in western Sydney but like most areas in that city they are easily susceptible to change and sporting loyalties are not as entrenched as they are in the AFL states.

Hence good marketking and development by the AFL should see this 2nd Sydney team take off in a big way. Western Sydney is full of "poor" people who can be easily swayed from what I am told and have read.

I wasn't a fan of second Sydney team to begin with, but after a conversation with a long-time "Westie" from Sydney, league is nowhere near entrenched in that part of the world as it is made out to be. Just look at the average crowds for the western sydney league teams. Parramatta made the prelim final last year and barely averaged 14,000, same with the Bulldogs. These are two perceived powerhouses of league.

Is this a fair summation of the situation in Sydney's west or am I totally off track. There must be something to this if the Swans can attract 60,000 plus crowds out west and dwarf league crowds. Imagine what a team that actually represented the west could acheive.

 

[McCrud]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/tv-boss-questions-expansion/2008/03/04/1204402455612.html

TV boss questions expansion forecasts

CHANNEL Seven has questioned the financial benefits of expanding the AFL competition to 18 teams. Seven says the location of the new teams — in the developing markets of western Sydney and south-east Queensland — would not bring the extra financial windfall from television rights that the AFL hopes would underpin the expansion beyond the current 16 teams.

The managing director of Seven in Melbourne, Ian Johnson, said last night that the free-to-air broadcasters — currently Seven and Channel Ten — probably would not have room to accommodate another game, and the extra Gold Coast and Sydney games therefore would be consigned to pay television (now Foxtel). "Eighteen teams, nine games is not going to give them any more broadcast money, purely and simply because of where the teams are going to be located," he said. "I cannot see how the introduction of two teams, one based on the Gold Coast and one in western Sydney, would be a product that the current broadcasters would believe would necessitate paying more money for the rights."

Johnson said he imagined that Channel Ten would hold a similar view to Seven. The current broadcast agreement is worth $780 million over five years, with Seven and Ten providing about 60% of that amount over the term of the deal. Some, including influential media buyer Harold Mitchell, have suggested the next five-year rights deal will break the billion-dollar mark."An extra game would probably have to end up on pay TV," Johnson said. "Pay TV are probably saying they're paying enough now and why would they pay any more, when it's highly likely that the free-to-air couldn't even fit an extra game on. "It's just come out of left field and none of us have sat around and had a chat about it yet."

Seven's questioning of the worth of extra teams and games in markets where football struggles in free-to-air ratings is a reminder of the immense difficulties the AFL faces in establishing viable new teams without hurting its bottom line."Broadcasting back into the southern states is OK," said Johnson of the prospective extra game. "But broadcasting live into those markets (Sydney and Queensland) is still a huge battle."Pay TV gets an exceptional audience, but free-to-air would certainly struggle to get a good audience for those sort of shows, and on that basis, the free-to-airs would certainly reject having to pay any further amount."

Seven broadcasts into Sydney and Brisbane only on Sunday afternoons, leaving broadcasts of Friday night matches to Foxtel. Channel Ten does broadcast into Sydney and Brisbane on Saturdays, but the ratings are not strong. "To get the Sydney and Brisbane ratings up (is) probably one of their toughest assignments," Johnson said.

 

[Ziggy the God]

What about the Billion Dollar Tv deal that will bankroll the expansion? :lol:

 

[Ziggy the God]

Clubs unite to fight AFL


PENRITH, Wests Tigers and Parramatta yesterday set up a council of war to fight the AFL's attack on western Sydney. In a groundbreaking meeting at Parramatta Leagues Club, the three clubs' bosses Mick Leary, Steve Noyce and Denis Fitzgerald came up with several proposals for next week's NRL chief executive's conference.
Leary told The Daily Telegraph that the initiative was a direct result of AFL plans to fast-track the introduction of a second Sydney team.
"It's directly prompted by the AFL. We can't sit back now, we have to be active,'' Leary said at CUA Stadium. "Our fears are that there will be a second AFL team in western Sydney. We want to make it as hard as we can for them.
"It's the strategy we are going to run from Rouse Hill to Oran Park over the next few years."


The clubs, who represent half the players at all levels in NSW, want:
An additional western Sydney rugby league academy, based in the Blacktown area;
A united body which can lobby local government for playing fields;
More development officers;
A defined strategy for fighting the Australian rules threat.
A further meeting is to be held in Blacktown, to which NRL chief executive David Gallop will be invited. The AFL threat is an agenda item at next week's CEO's meeting, at the instigation of the NRL.
The AFL is expected to plough as much as $10million into western Sydney in the years ahead, with the introduction of a new team expected to go ahead in 2011. Noyce admitted other clubs might resent extra investment in the area.
But he argued: "There are a lot of ex-Parramatta, Penrith or Wests Tigers players at other clubs ... at the end of the day everyone gets an advantage because we produce more and more players.
"We just want to work together and be more proactive.''
Leary added: "Development officers in our area are under-resourced. I've got a girl here who is responsible for 185 primary schools. I've got another who is responsible for 58 high schools.''
"We can't get a 25-year-old development officer to go to a council and lobby for a ground.''
Gallop responded by saying: "I am encouraged to see the clubs getting together. There has also been a meeting I attended last week and (academy official) Marty Meredith is going to make a presentation to the clubs on Thursday.
"There's already a strategic plan for western Sydney and that is being implemented. But it could do with greater resources and we'll be looking at that.''
Fitzgerald declined to comment, saying: "Not until we have the meeting''.






http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/sport/nrl/story/0,26746,23320042-5016286,00.html

 

[Ziggy the God]

No room for Aussie Rules

By Reg Reagan


GROWING up in Sydney's golden west, I was brought up putting AFL players into the same category as blokes who drunk West Coast Coolers and loitered around public toilet blocks.
It was a foreign game played by untrustworthy foreign men who wore tight shorts and looked upon tackling as a mere excuse to grab another man by the bojangles.
How times have changed!
Over the last month I, and many others, have been outraged by the cheek and arrogance of AFL boss Andrew Demetriou declaring his plans to put another Aussie rules team in Sydney.
Sydney's west to be exact.
Yes, that's right. The same western Sydney that considered Ray Price a living, breathing God and his Parramatta teammates the 12 Apostles.
The same western Sydney whose people enjoy a public holiday to celebrate the birth of Denis Fitzgerald. And the same western Sydney that voted Panthers World of Entertainment at least six times better than Disneyland.
To the politicians of western Sydney I say this: let AFL through the front door (or more to the point, the back door) and you will have a riot on your hands on a scale that will make the Macquarie Fields riots look like a game of beach volleyball played between two French blokes in Speedos.
I can't understand why the politicians out west are even considering it. You certainly wouldn't find this sort of madness going on at Wollongong City Council.
My older brother Rick Reagan, who was Cleo Bachelor of the Year in 1968 and now is a self-employed male escort in Mt Druitt, says if an AFL team comes west then he'll pack up his highly successful business and move east.
When I told him the Swans were east he said he'd move north.
When I told him about the Brisbane Lions he then declared he would move to Tonga.
My nephew is currently living in a one-bedroom cell in Silverwater, which he shares with "good friend'' Bubba. After hearing the news of the western suburbs' plans to embrace the AFL, both he and Bubba have asked for a transfer to Long Bay.
I mean c'mon people, let's open our eyes and realise that by accepting this Mexican sport into our area, it will cost us some of our finest citizens.
NRL boss David Gallop came out and stated he would counter the AFL's bold move by looking to expand the NRL, with teams in Perth, Adelaide and Samoa.
While I still fantasise in dark, lonely corners of my house about the re-emergence of the Adelaide Rams, let's fight the battle at the front line, Dave.
I'll be recommending to the NRL board that we put another six teams in the west.
That's right, flood the joint with rugby league.
Then even if the AFL does put a side there, there'll be no grounds for them to play matches, no parks for them to train and no pubs for them to drink.
And just think about some of the local derbies in the league.
The Penrith Panthers versus the Mt Druitt Magic, the Parramatta Eels versus the Pennant Hills Pythons, the Wests Tigers versus the Westfield Witchhunt. Simply magic!
But let me leave you with this.
It was legendary Chester Hill back-rower Warwick "Way too tough'' Tilsbury, who once said during a half-time speech "that to understand what the future holds we must look to the past''.
No one understood what Tilsbury was saying and history shows he was beaten unmercifully by his teammates. But now as I reflect on Warwick's words, I will give a sneak peek of what the future may hold for western Sydney.

AFL boss Andrew Demetriou is a man of Greek origin.

And like the Greeks of ancient history, Demetriou will use a Trojan horse in the shape of a second AFL team in Sydney based in the west to win his bloody battle with rugby league.

So, people of the west, if you want rugby league to be a rotting carcass lying on the M4 being nibbled apart by crows and trodden on by German hitchhikers, then please welcome Aussie rules into your bosom.

But if you want rugby league to continue to be the greatest game of all, if you want your sons to be halfbacks, your daughters to date front-rowers, your wives to jeer linesmen and your husbands to cheer hockers, then tell the boys down south thanks but no thanks.

 

[Perth Red]

They want more money for junior development in the West? How much do the Panthers, Wests and Parramatta Leagues clubs make combined? I thought one of the key purposes of the Leagues clubs was to fund jnr RL? Would an extra 1/2 mill from the NRL make much difference?

 

[The Tank]

Good to see they're being proactive.

 

[Angry_eel]

Mt Druitt Magic, i like it.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

We celebrate Denis Fitzgeralds birth?

 

[The Tank]

No room for Aussie Rules

By Reg Reagan


GROWING up in Sydney's golden west, I was brought up putting AFL players into the same category as blokes who drunk West Coast Coolers and loitered around public toilet blocks.
It was a foreign game played by untrustworthy foreign men who wore tight shorts and looked upon tackling as a mere excuse to grab another man by the bojangles.
How times have changed!
Over the last month I, and many others, have been outraged by the cheek and arrogance of AFL boss Andrew Demetriou declaring his plans to put another Aussie rules team in Sydney.
Sydney's west to be exact.
Yes, that's right. The same western Sydney that considered Ray Price a living, breathing God and his Parramatta teammates the 12 Apostles.
The same western Sydney whose people enjoy a public holiday to celebrate the birth of Denis Fitzgerald. And the same western Sydney that voted Panthers World of Entertainment at least six times better than Disneyland.
To the politicians of western Sydney I say this: let AFL through the front door (or more to the point, the back door) and you will have a riot on your hands on a scale that will make the Macquarie Fields riots look like a game of beach volleyball played between two French blokes in Speedos.
I can't understand why the politicians out west are even considering it. You certainly wouldn't find this sort of madness going on at Wollongong City Council.
My older brother Rick Reagan, who was Cleo Bachelor of the Year in 1968 and now is a self-employed male escort in Mt Druitt, says if an AFL team comes west then he'll pack up his highly successful business and move east.
When I told him the Swans were east he said he'd move north.
When I told him about the Brisbane Lions he then declared he would move to Tonga.
My nephew is currently living in a one-bedroom cell in Silverwater, which he shares with "good friend'' Bubba. After hearing the news of the western suburbs' plans to embrace the AFL, both he and Bubba have asked for a transfer to Long Bay.
I mean c'mon people, let's open our eyes and realise that by accepting this Mexican sport into our area, it will cost us some of our finest citizens.
NRL boss David Gallop came out and stated he would counter the AFL's bold move by looking to expand the NRL, with teams in Perth, Adelaide and Samoa.
While I still fantasise in dark, lonely corners of my house about the re-emergence of the Adelaide Rams, let's fight the battle at the front line, Dave.
I'll be recommending to the NRL board that we put another six teams in the west.
That's right, flood the joint with rugby league.
Then even if the AFL does put a side there, there'll be no grounds for them to play matches, no parks for them to train and no pubs for them to drink.
And just think about some of the local derbies in the league.
The Penrith Panthers versus the Mt Druitt Magic, the Parramatta Eels versus the Pennant Hills Pythons, the Wests Tigers versus the Westfield Witchhunt. Simply magic!
But let me leave you with this.
It was legendary Chester Hill back-rower Warwick "Way too tough'' Tilsbury, who once said during a half-time speech "that to understand what the future holds we must look to the past''.
No one understood what Tilsbury was saying and history shows he was beaten unmercifully by his teammates. But now as I reflect on Warwick's words, I will give a sneak peek of what the future may hold for western Sydney.

AFL boss Andrew Demetriou is a man of Greek origin.

And like the Greeks of ancient history, Demetriou will use a Trojan horse in the shape of a second AFL team in Sydney based in the west to win his bloody battle with rugby league.

So, people of the west, if you want rugby league to be a rotting carcass lying on the M4 being nibbled apart by crows and trodden on by German hitchhikers, then please welcome Aussie rules into your bosom.

But if you want rugby league to continue to be the greatest game of all, if you want your sons to be halfbacks, your daughters to date front-rowers, your wives to jeer linesmen and your husbands to cheer hockers, then tell the boys down south thanks but no thanks.

Can Matt Johns please f**k off with this stupid character. It was the funny the first few times, now it's plain sh*t.

 

[Noa]

What about development officers being employed directly by the leagues clubs & liasing with the NRL/ARL, I'm sure they have the money and it is for the communities benefit.

 

[brooksy19]

thats a good start by the ceo's.. atleast they have a plan/want to fight the afl off.

 

[The Engineers Room]

Maybe taking the fight to them would be to introduce a second Melbourne team, Adelaide and Perth

 

[mightypanther]

Clubs unite to fight AFL

By Steve Mascord | March 05, 2008 12:00am

Daily Telegraph

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,23320042-5006066,00.html


Penrith, Wests Tigers and Parramatta yesterday set up a council of war to fight the AFL's attack on western Sydney.

In a groundbreaking meeting at Parramatta Leagues Club, the three clubs' bosses Mick Leary, Steve Noyce and Denis Fitzgerald came up with several proposals for next week's NRL chief executive's conference.

Leary told The Daily Telegraph that the initiative was a direct result of AFL plans to fast-track the introduction of a second Sydney team.

"It's directly prompted by the AFL. We can't sit back now, we have to be active,'' Leary said at CUA Stadium. "Our fears are that there will be a second AFL team in western Sydney. We want to make it as hard as we can for them.

"It's the strategy we are going to run from Rouse Hill to Oran Park over the next few years."

The clubs, who represent half the players at all levels in NSW, want: An additional western Sydney rugby league academy, based in the Blacktown area; a united body which can lobby local government for playing fields; More development officers; A defined strategy for fighting the Australian rule threat.

A further meeting is to be helo in Blacktown, to which NRL cheif David Gallop will be invited. The AFL threat is an agenda iten at next weed's CEO's meeting, at the instigation of the NRL.

The AFL is expected to plough as much as $10 million into western Sdyney in the years ahead, withe the introduction of a new team expected to go ahead in 2011. Noyce admitted other clubs might resent extra investment in the area.

But he argued: "There are a lot of ex-Parramatta, Penrith or Wests Tigers players at other clubs ... at the end of the day everyone gets an advantage because we produce more and more players.

"We just want to work together and be more proactive.'' Leary added: "Development officers in our area are under-resourced. I've got a girl here who is responsible for 185 primary schools. I've got another who is responsible for 58 high schools.'' "We can't get a 25-year-old development officer to go to a council and lobby for a ground.''

Gallop responded by saying: "I am encouraged to see the clubs getting together. There has also been a meeting I attended last week and (academy official) Marty Meredith is going to make a presentation to the clubs on Thursday.

"There's already a strategic plan for western Sydney and that is being implemented. But it could do with greater resources and we'll be looking at that.''

Fitzgerald declined to comment, saying: "Not until we have the meeting''.
.
.

 

[macavity]

Maybe taking the fight to them would be to introduce a second Melbourne team, Adelaide and Perth

yeah lets blow millions


Perth, Wello and another SEQ will do nicely. Leave the Storm be and is Adelaide even in Australia?

 

[Jatz Crackers]

Clubs unite to fight AFL
A further meeting is to be helo in Blacktown, to which NRL cheif David Gallop will be invited. The AFL threat is an agenda iten at next weed's CEO's meeting, at the instigation of the NRL.

.

Good to hear they are going to meet & hash this around a bit at some joint & mull it over until they weed out all the solutions. That will make the AFL green with envy. Hope Steve Roach and Mary Jane are going.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buds

 

[The Engineers Room]

yeah lets blow millions


Perth, Wello and another SEQ will do nicely. Leave the Storm be and is Adelaide even in Australia?

Not saying that we should do it but taking the fight to an opponent is to go to their home/comfort zone and try and beat them there.