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Aleague claim equal $$$

Cheezel

Juniors
Messages
436
I firstly think league seems to live on negative publicity. Constantly we are going downhill, under threat, dying. We have been ever since super league, every year the dooms day types trot out their same speech.

Yet our tv ratings continue to be massive and have not waned. You have two weeks early in the year that average below the 2007 average and someone writes a story about falling nrl ratings.
The NRL is going strong in its key indicators. However there are other pressures on clubs like poker machine tax etc.

We all know the NRL TV deal is undervalued in comparison with the AFL deal. That is not going to change, but the a-league is in the same boat.

Some possible facts and figures to counter the negativity.
League crowds have never been and I doubt never will match afl crowds. But to put a slightly positive spin the afl do have a very good set up when it comes to getting great crowds. They play virtually all their matches in melbourne at 2 central easy to access venues. 63% of their total crowds this year have been at those 2 venues.

AFL crowds in the home an away have grown by about 2 million in the last 15 years. Much of this from the vast improvements in the northern markets where prior to the mid 90s sydney and brisbane had dismal crowds. But its not really true, its been afl heartland where the growth has occured, with nearly 80% of crowd growth happening in vic, sa and wa. And about 55% of that in victoria.
Sydney has shown no real crowd growth since 1997, the crowds average between 36000 and 25000 depending on the swans results. Thats despite taking big games to stadium australia. Brisbane similar crowds between averaging between 33000 and 27000 depending on their season's results since the year 20000.

Okay I am not saying afl crowds are anything but fantastic, but I am saying that as a threat to rugby league afl has made most of its ground in its own heartland not in sydney and brisbane after an initial thurst in the late 90s.

Now on the A-league, it is going well for soccer in australia. But quite simply there are no facts and figures that truley support it being anywhere near league. Their crowds have been good, but not a huge amount of growth from the major clubs in the last 2 years. Brisbane, sydney, adelaide, perth and Melbourne have not greatly increased their fan base, since initial good figures in either season 1 or 2.
The pay TV figures don't show a great picture either, certainly not one to get hearts racing. The a-league despite only being on pay and with no real direct tv sport in conflict for much of the year only the GF made the top 100 in a lowly position. The EPL often rated similar in the middle of the night to a-league games. Thats hardly the stuff that will attract free to air. And the a-league are stuck with a 17 million a year contract till the end of the 2012/13 season. It is also a problem that apart from the final couple of matches in world cup qualifiers all the socceroo matches are on pay.

I agree with soccer being the world game, I like it myself, but I have no pay tv and I have honestly watched maybe 3 games of a-league ever. I would have watched 20 - 30 european games live in that same period.

I think you will find many average sporting fans who love nrl or afl first, but don't mind a good soccer game but don't have pay tv would be in the same boat.

So why is a-league a threat, I don't think it is at all. I think it is a solid comp, doing well for itself that sold its soul to pay tv for 7 years and only 17 million. Even the super 14 deal is worth closer to 25 million a year.

I don't won't to bag any code too much, but why is rugby league always under threat when nothing crowd or tv ratings wise is going backwards.

Could not have said it better myself. :D

League will always dominate QLD, NSW and ACT. League just needs to think about getting new markets to put it in a good place for future TV deals.

In the next deal they also need to make sure if FTA do not show the game live into Vic, SA and WA that Fox are able to atleast show it live into those states.

It's time League started demanding more from there TV deals
 

sharko

Juniors
Messages
911
I think the media companies are just trying to anticipate where the next growth is going to come from..and soccer seems to push the right buttons at this stage.
Soccer is the dominant sport in Australia for junior participation..this is the most important element in every code, take up of a sport by young Australians.
They are improving their domestic adminsitration of the game..it still has some way to go but the bad old days of the NSL with its focus on ethnicity and corruption seem to be behind them.
They are starting to get good, regular crowds to matches but understand that Australians will not pay money to watch a second rate sport, so their depth is vital as is the use of marquee players.
Most importantly they have an inernational attraction..for example the Socceroos draw up to 75,000 for afriendly agaisnt the Chinks., that is a staggering figure...no other sport in Australia can get that.
In 5-10 years time soccer will be soaking up a large amount of the corporate dollar and the tv dollar leaving the other sports to squabble over the remainder.
 

sooperdooper

First Grade
Messages
5,545
Surely you have to compare apples with apples though. You should be comparing the Socceroos matches with the Wallabies matches. In which case I would say Soccer is ATLEAST on par with rugby at an international level, and that's being generous.


socceroos are far ahead of wallabies
 
Messages
10,970
It has failed before, yes. But unlike previous regimes, we are in Asia. I honestly think people who don't follow the sport understand just how important that factor is.

soccer will live and die like all sports on the success of its local competition

theres lots of work to do there and if clubs go broke thats it gone
 

sooperdooper

First Grade
Messages
5,545
dally and eels dude have no idea....
there are so many points they choose to ignore. They keep referring to old days, which dont exsist now
The a league and football in Australia is a major player for many reasons.
Sydney FC kick off this week, lets see how many turn up to watch compared to that of the Roosters V Eels last which.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
dally and eels dude have no idea....
there are so many points they choose to ignore.
They keep referring to old days, which dont exsist now
The a league and football in Australia is a major player for many reasons.
Sydney FC kick off this week, lets see how many turn up to watch compared to that of the Roosters V Eels last which.

I've no idea do I? Please highlight these points I've chosen to ignore and I'll happily respond to them. Deal?
 

sooperdooper

First Grade
Messages
5,545
I've no idea do I? Please highlight these points I've chosen to ignore and I'll happily respond to them. Deal?


* claiming we are not a part of asia
* saying no one cares about the asians champions league and asian cup.
* calling the clubs broke (yet the NRL is in the same shoes with clubs losing money every year)

You are so one eyed.... you cant see that the a league and football is a great code and is popular in Aus.
This will be proven when Sydney kick off this weekend. The crowd average this season will surpass the nrl.

I love nrl and my eels. However i see the game has many issue.

The A league i dont mind., but even blind freddy could see there success.
 
Messages
10,970
you gotta condense your writting. since when do you think you should take up a whole screen....like what you say is THAT profound.
i agree with you however, its not all home and hosed for A league is what you're really trying to say

even if its just a little profound i can live with that.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
* claiming we are not a part of asia
* saying no one cares about the asians champions league and asian cup.
* calling the clubs broke (yet the NRL is in the same shoes with clubs losing money every year)

You are so one eyed.... you cant see that the a league and football is a great code and is popular in Aus.
This will be proven when Sydney kick off this weekend. The crowd average this season will surpass the nrl.

I love nrl and my eels. However i see the game has many issue.

The A league i dont mind., but even blind freddy could see there success.

Um ok...

1. It's not a claim, it's a FACT. We are not part of Asia. This is Australia. We are our own continent. Asia is a different continent. We may be "part of Asia" for football's sake but that is all.

2. There is limited interest in the Asian Cup and Asian Champions League. Sure, the media will take in an interest in it, hardcore football fans will also, but it's not going to be much a drawcard to general sports fans or aussies in general. Do you know how the Asian Cup rated last year??

3. The clubs are not broke, but they are losing money, as are many NRL clubs. NRL clubs have something to fall back on though, but the A League is costing more than returns at the moment, their salary cap and player spending is way too high for example. Unless clubs and the competition find more money within the next few years we'll probably be seeing clubs die.

I'm not one eyed. You're the one presenting arguments without reasoning.

The crowd average won't surpass the NRL just because you say it will, you're being one eyed in this case.

I'm not saying the A League isn't a success... They've done very well over 3 to 4 years. It's not a thread to Rugby League though.
 

mik01

Juniors
Messages
202
Firstly, No I didn't. I compared the sports in general. International soccer may be more popular than rugby, but there's a lot more rugby tests played in Australia, and they have a lot more meaning. Football gets a handful of games a year, a lot of which are just friendlies, though I admit that's not the case over the next 12 months.

Football is a fad, and we're going to have to wait a few years for me to be proved wrong if you disagree. The A League and football can compete, but they don't have a dominant market to compete in like League, Rugby, and AFL do. People will take interest, but it's not going to dominate in coming years.

in the battle for the corporate dollar, soccer is an inoffensive outlet - its clean.
think about it - there are no 'buns' in a-league, no pub brawls, no toilet cubicle incidents.

plus Mums are more inclined to put their boys into soccer at a young age as they know they won't be bashed to death by some monster kid who looks like an under 16 playing in under 8's.

Soccer is not a 'threat' to NRL, as much as it isn't a threat to AFL etc. they will all survive and prosper - but the fans have to come from somwhere and spend their money somewhere. A-league is growing - and fast - you only need to wait for the next world cup for the next 'boost' of popularity that the A-league can leverage off.

Soccer (the 'real' football) is more popular than any other code on earth - how can anyone seriously argue that it will die off in Australia after our 'success' on the work stage? We just needed to know we are good at it for the fans to follow.

how many got up at all hours to watch Australia at the world cup = lots.
How many of you would get up at 4am on a weekday to watch Australia play a group game in RL World cup (assuming it was o/s)? I wouldn't waste my time - NRL is exciting, RL internationals are boring.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
in the battle for the corporate dollar, soccer is an inoffensive outlet - its clean.
think about it - there are no 'buns' in a-league, no pub brawls, no toilet cubicle incidents.

plus Mums are more inclined to put their boys into soccer at a young age as they know they won't be bashed to death by some monster kid who looks like an under 16 playing in under 8's.

Soccer is not a 'threat' to NRL, as much as it isn't a threat to AFL etc. they will all survive and prosper - but the fans have to come from somwhere and spend their money somewhere. A-league is growing - and fast - you only need to wait for the next world cup for the next 'boost' of popularity that the A-league can leverage off.

Soccer (the 'real' football) is more popular than any other code on earth - how can anyone seriously argue that it will die off in Australia after our 'success' on the work stage? We just needed to know we are good at it for the fans to follow.

how many got up at all hours to watch Australia at the world cup = lots.
How many of you would get up at 4am on a weekday to watch Australia play a group game in RL World cup (assuming it was o/s)? I wouldn't waste my time - NRL is exciting, RL internationals are boring.

Good points. I feel there is a big gap between football internationals and the A League though. The A League will generate interest, but I don't think there's much room for improvement in areas dominated by other sporting codes. Everyone will be excited about the World Cup because it is the biggest sporting tournament worldwide, but that doesn't mean club competion is going to be that much more successful.

Soccer was played was the dominant sport played when I was a kid 15 years ago, nothing has changed there. It probably always will be. But whenever we finished a game we all wanted to go home and watch the rugby league.
 

pk76

Juniors
Messages
345
No one is going to give a stuff about the ones in bold.

That is the most ignorant post in this thread.

You tried to very hard to sound like you had an informed opinion with your previous posts, but the above one exposed you.

You are telling me that 'no one' is going to care about Asian Cup which is the most valuable trophy in AFC?!
 

fish eel

Immortal
Messages
42,876
Um ok...

1. It's not a claim, it's a FACT. We are not part of Asia. This is Australia. We are our own continent. Asia is a different continent. We may be "part of Asia" for football's sake but that is all.

Australia's future, economically, is in Asia. Dont kid yourself and say we arent part of it

2. There is limited interest in the Asian Cup and Asian Champions League. Sure, the media will take in an interest in it, hardcore football fans will also, but it's not going to be much a drawcard to general sports fans or aussies in general. Do you know how the Asian Cup rated last year??

http://www.smh.com.au/news/asian-cup-news/soccer-boots-big-league/2007/07/09/1183833431250.html

An average of 345,000 people tuned in to watch Cahill nab a late equaliser against Oman on Sunday night, not including the estimated tens of thousands who watched in 3600 bars and clubs across Australia.
Rugby league normally attracts a peak of about 245,000 viewers for its Saturday night broadcasts.

and from league unlimited's soccer forum

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=178266

The Australia v Japan AFC Asian Cup football match on Saturday night created a new Australian Subscription TV record audience with an average of 419,000 people watching the game on FOX SPORTS.



The Australia v Japan AFC Asian Cup quarter final had a higher average audience than any program in the history of Australian Subscription TV as well as a peak audience of 515,000 during the penalty shoot out.



The match, which went right down to the wire before Australia was knocked out in heart-breaking circumstances, also attracted a total audience of 1,029,000, according to ratings recorded by OzTAM Data


3. The clubs are not broke, but they are losing money, as are many NRL clubs. NRL clubs have something to fall back on though, but the A League is costing more than returns at the moment, their salary cap and player spending is way too high for example. Unless clubs and the competition find more money within the next few years we'll probably be seeing clubs die.

The A-League salary cap isnt too high. :roll:

I'm not one eyed. You're the one presenting arguments without reasoning.

You're actually mounting an argument, stating opinions as fact, from a very limited knowldge base.
 

Tom Ace

Bench
Messages
2,594
Good points. I feel there is a big gap between football internationals and the A League though. The A League will generate interest, but I don't think there's much room for improvement in areas dominated by other sporting codes. Everyone will be excited about the World Cup because it is the biggest sporting tournament worldwide, but that doesn't mean club competion is going to be that much more successful.

Soccer was played was the dominant sport played when I was a kid 15 years ago, nothing has changed there. It probably always will be. But whenever we finished a game we all wanted to go home and watch the rugby league.

Which is what has changed now with the introduction of the A-League.

Kids can now see a team that they have an affection for on the TV and despite it obviously not being of European standard, it's pretty entertaining to watch.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Australia's future, economically, is in Asia. Dont kid yourself and say we arent part of it
I'm not talking economically. I'm talking culture and geography. We're not a part of Asia. Case closed.

People will watch a one off event. I watched it myself but it's not going to be the same every time.



You're actually mounting an argument, stating opinions as fact, from a very limited knowldge base.

This whole thread is opinions, read through it, most involve no facts at all. Thanks for providing some though, I'll give you credit for that though I disagree with some.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
That is the most ignorant post in this thread.

You tried to very hard to sound like you had an informed opinion with your previous posts, but the above one exposed you.

You are telling me that 'no one' is going to care about Asian Cup which is the most valuable trophy in AFC?!

Yes, we all care about beating China, Japan, Sth Korea etc. If it weren't our path for world cup qualifiying no one would give a stuff, except football fans...
 
Messages
10,970
in the battle for the corporate dollar, soccer is an inoffensive outlet - its clean.
think about it - there are no 'buns' in a-league, no pub brawls, no toilet cubicle incidents.

plus Mums are more inclined to put their boys into soccer at a young age as they know they won't be bashed to death by some monster kid who looks like an under 16 playing in under 8's.

Soccer is not a 'threat' to NRL, as much as it isn't a threat to AFL etc. they will all survive and prosper - but the fans have to come from somwhere and spend their money somewhere. A-league is growing - and fast - you only need to wait for the next world cup for the next 'boost' of popularity that the A-league can leverage off.

Soccer (the 'real' football) is more popular than any other code on earth - how can anyone seriously argue that it will die off in Australia after our 'success' on the work stage? We just needed to know we are good at it for the fans to follow.

how many got up at all hours to watch Australia at the world cup = lots.
How many of you would get up at 4am on a weekday to watch Australia play a group game in RL World cup (assuming it was o/s)? I wouldn't waste my time - NRL is exciting, RL internationals are boring.

so are you saying that nobody watches soccer outside the world cup.

you cant build a domestic sport using the WC as some kind of gimmick to make up for a weak local competition.

the real football code in australia are RL and AFL.

the rest are minor and until they change that, they should stop pretending.
 

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